Kim Davis Update

thisismynickname2 · September 2015

One thing people just don't seem to understand is the concept that your rights end where someone else's rights begin.

She has the right to stand by her religious beliefs. She does not have the right to use her right to deny someone else their rights.

Ergo, she needs to step down or stand aside and let other people issue the licenses (the latter is what sounds like is going to happen? I'm not entirely caught up on the drama).

If we didn't have to petition the state for a license to marry, this wouldn't even be an issue, ugh. The whole license thing is stupid to begin with.

sarahufl · September 2015

I don't understand her supporters. I am super pro-marry anyone you want. If that is what makes you happy, you do you. But I can respect (no matter how much I disagree with it) someone who isn't. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs (no matter how wrong I think they might be).

But for the love of everyone, don't take a government job and act like you work for yourself or for some church organization. If you hate gays so much, go protest or something. But to act like you have the right to deny them what is legally theirs is just so far beyond me.

I am astounded by the local support and the support from politicians. It is scary to think that someone running for president of the United States can even remotely back this crazy woman up.

lyndausvi · September 2015

And some people are supporting him for president.

Nymeru · September 2015

It was just so special of him to offer to go to jail on behalf of Kim. Either he's spouting empty words because he thinks it will make him look good, or he doesn't understand how justice works. Either way, I have less respect for him.

IrishPirate60 · September 2015

drunkenwitch said:

What makes me want to scream is the idiots comparing her to Rosa Parks and Dr. King. She is nothing, NOTHING like them. They were heroes who risked their lives for civil liberties and equality. Rosa Parks and Dr. King spoke about peace, tolerance and human rights. Kim Davis is a bigot and an attention whore.

Best response to this argument: Kim Davis is not like Rosa Parks who refused to give up her seat on the bus. Kim Davis is like the bus driver who refused to drive when Rosa Parks refused to move.

teddygirl9 · September 2015

http://cheezburger.com/627461/funny-memes-kim-davis-marriage-still-does-job

Viczaesar · September 2015

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

I don't understand why not wanting to preform music relating to holidays would be a problem when teaching music in a public school.

themosthappy91 · September 2015

Viczaesar said:

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

I don't understand why not wanting to preform music relating to holidays would be a problem when teaching music in a public school.

I feel like literally 75% of the music we sang/played in public elementary school music class and band was holiday oriented, whether that holiday was Christmas, Halloween, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Valentine's Day etc. We even did a whole musical in 4th grade called "It's December In Our Town" that covered all the different winter holidays. Anyone else have this experience? I guess I never really thought of that as being inappropriate but maybe I'm not thinking it through.

huskypuppy14 · September 2015

themosthappy91 said:

Viczaesar said:

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

I don't understand why not wanting to preform music relating to holidays would be a problem when teaching music in a public school.

I feel like literally 75% of the music we sang/played in public elementary school music class and band was holiday oriented, whether that holiday was Christmas, Halloween, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Valentine's Day etc. We even did a whole musical in 4th grade called "It's December In Our Town" that covered all the different winter holidays. Anyone else have this experience? I guess I never really thought of that as being inappropriate but maybe I'm not thinking it through.

It's not inappropriate to most people, but Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate holidays. So any holiday songs are out. The y also don't celebrate birthdays.

WinstonsGirl · September 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

themosthappy91 said:
I feel like literally 75% of the music we sang/played in public elementary school music class and band was holiday oriented, whether that holiday was Christmas, Halloween, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Valentine's Day etc. We even did a whole musical in 4th grade called "It's December In Our Town" that covered all the different winter holidays. Anyone else have this experience? I guess I never really thought of that as being inappropriate but maybe I'm not thinking it through.

It's not inappropriate to most people, but Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate holidays. So any holiday songs are out. The y also don't celebrate birthdays.

Or sing the National Anthem. One of my students stays seated every day during Oh Canada.

themosthappy91 · September 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

themosthappy91 said:

Viczaesar said:

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

I don't understand why not wanting to preform music relating to holidays would be a problem when teaching music in a public school.

I feel like literally 75% of the music we sang/played in public elementary school music class and band was holiday oriented, whether that holiday was Christmas, Halloween, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Valentine's Day etc. We even did a whole musical in 4th grade called "It's December In Our Town" that covered all the different winter holidays. Anyone else have this experience? I guess I never really thought of that as being inappropriate but maybe I'm not thinking it through.

It's not inappropriate to most people, but Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate holidays. So any holiday songs are out. The y also don't celebrate birthdays.

Oh yeah I knew that, I was making the point that I understand why CMG would counsel her JW friend not to take a job as a public music school teacher, because in my experience a HUGE amount of it is playing music relating to holidays.

So when PP asked why not wanting to perform holiday music would be a problem, I was offering that up as an answer. I guess you could make the case that public schools should not be teaching any music related to religious holidays, even if they cover them equally, but I don't think you're going to get far trying to get rid of Halloween music/Valentine's Day music/the National Anthem.

AJC430 · September 2015

themosthappy91 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

themosthappy91 said:

Viczaesar said:

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

I don't understand why not wanting to preform music relating to holidays would be a problem when teaching music in a public school.

I feel like literally 75% of the music we sang/played in public elementary school music class and band was holiday oriented, whether that holiday was Christmas, Halloween, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Valentine's Day etc. We even did a whole musical in 4th grade called "It's December In Our Town" that covered all the different winter holidays. Anyone else have this experience? I guess I never really thought of that as being inappropriate but maybe I'm not thinking it through.

It's not inappropriate to most people, but Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate holidays. So any holiday songs are out. The y also don't celebrate birthdays.

Oh yeah I knew that, I was making the point that I understand why CMG would counsel her JW friend not to take a job as a public music school teacher, because in my experience a HUGE amount of it is playing music relating to holidays.

So when PP asked why not wanting to perform holiday music would be a problem, I was offering that up as an answer. I guess you could make the case that public schools should not be teaching any music related to religious holidays, even if they cover them equally, but I don't think you're going to get far trying to get rid of Halloween music/Valentine's Day music/the National Anthem.

They do celebrate wedding anniversaries though! And have big parties! Which is slightly unusual to me, though I guess weddings don't necessarily have 'pagan roots' (their argument about holidays) depending on how you perform them.

My dad's lead guitarist is Jehovah Witness and he doesn't attend non-Jehovah Witness weddings or attend non-JW churches.

lyndausvi · September 2015

I just heard Kim's comments this morning. She is saying she will not interfere with other clerks issuing licenses. She didn't seem sincere. Officially she might not, but I think off-the-record she will pressure them not to issue licenses.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2015

lyndausvi said:

I just heard Kim's comments this morning. She is saying she will not interfere with other clerks issuing licenses. She didn't seem sincere. Officially she might not, but I think off-the-record she will pressure them not to issue licenses.

I thought the same thing, especially since her son still works there and won't issue licenses either and because she's still spreading the "licenses aren't valid anyways" argument.

themuffinman16 · September 2015

I have an aunt who is a JH. She also does not attend any weddings that are not through her church. She did attend my wedding, though. I think she, now, allows herself to do it for family. However, years ago, she did not attend her brother's funeral, because he was not buried according to her religion. Her brother was Catholic.

I feel that any person's religion should be able to stand the test of being around others who think differently. If your religion dictates that you can only spend time with people from your faith, your religion must doubt your convictions, and maybe for good reason. I have found that there are so many wonderful people of so many different faiths and holding so many different beliefs. I have a hard time believing god would send those people to hell.

huskypuppy14 · September 2015

JW also don't take blood. My grandmother's mother died because she had heart surgery and wouldn't accept a blood transfusion. She knew the risks going in, and she was 90 years old. That's her choice, her body.

But could you imagine JW groups getting together and trying to outlaw blood transfusions because they don't believe in it. That's exactly what the extreme Christian right is doing when they are protesting these things they don't believe in, whether it's abortion, gay marriage, etc.

lyndausvi · September 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

JW also don't take blood. My grandmother's mother died because she had heart surgery and wouldn't accept a blood transfusion. She knew the risks going in, and she was 90 years old. That's her choice, her body.

But could you imagine JW groups getting together and trying to outlaw blood transfusions because they don't believe in it. That's exactly what the extreme Christian right is doing when they are protesting these things they don't believe in, whether it's abortion, gay marriage, etc.

yep.

charcoalandblush · September 2015

huskypuppy14 said:

JW also don't take blood. My grandmother's mother died because she had heart surgery and wouldn't accept a blood transfusion. She knew the risks going in, and she was 90 years old. That's her choice, her body.

But could you imagine JW groups getting together and trying to outlaw blood transfusions because they don't believe in it. That's exactly what the extreme Christian right is doing when they are protesting these things they don't believe in, whether it's abortion, gay marriage, etc.

This is SUCH a great analogy. I'm going to use this one when my wing nut relatives try to go off about how allowing gay marriage violates their religious freedom or some bullshit like that.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2015

GOP B Team just fell all over each other to show who can support Kim Davis more. I think Rick Santorum won, he even went so far as to quote Martin Luther King Jr.

And then Pataki schooled him on the difference between civil disobedience and judicial supremacy because as President it's his responsibility to honor by the Supreme Court's ruling.

Jen4948 · September 2015

themosthappy91 said:

Viczaesar said:

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

I don't understand why not wanting to preform music relating to holidays would be a problem when teaching music in a public school.

I feel like literally 75% of the music we sang/played in public elementary school music class and band was holiday oriented, whether that holiday was Christmas, Halloween, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Valentine's Day etc. We even did a whole musical in 4th grade called "It's December In Our Town" that covered all the different winter holidays. Anyone else have this experience? I guess I never really thought of that as being inappropriate but maybe I'm not thinking it through.

Yes. Except 99% of the music was for Christmas and the rest was for Hanukkah. No other holidays merited any music of their own. And there was always a "Christmas musical" that had one scene dedicated to Hanukkah.

Viczaesar · September 2015

That's interesting; my schools did not play holiday music at all.

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