Non Traditional Wedding Advice Needed! -Eloping and then having a party?!

EarthyBride2017 · September 2015

Hi All -

Not sure if this is the best location for this, but I haven't spent much time on here.

Back story: My fiance and I have been together for three years, engaged for almost one, and we have known each other for six. Best friends who ended up realizing we were meant to be.

We recently went to buy a condo but due to our collective student debt we are only able to get FHA financing. Not terrible, but it limits our options quite a bit more than we expected. We originally planned on getting married in Fall of 2017 but now we are thinking of doing things in reverse.

Get married, open joint accounts and work together to pay down his loans and then mine...going from highest monthly payment amount to lowest. We are not sure how to do this without sacrificing the "party" aspect of a wedding. He is an entertainer and all about that stuff. I know we can keep our budget low and we already have a fantastic venue in mind.

My question is this:

Has anyone out there gotten married 6-8 months (at the courthouse) before their actual wedding? Have you been able to keep it a secret and start reaping the financial rewards etc. before actually doing the rest?

I'm also looking for advice as far as engagement notices, invitations etc. We haven't sent out or put anything in the paper. I thought about sending announcements/engagement photos around Christmas time but that just seems tacky.

AdventureisCalling · September 2015

Just a quick warning... Keeping it a secret is a bad idea. Why lie to your friends and family? Also, don't re-enact your wedding. Have a party if you want, but no "wedding" stuff. Its generally frowned upon to have a secret wedding, lie to friends and family and then have them come to a faux wedding, thinking it is the real thing.

ShesSoCold · September 2015

HerbalHippie said:

Hi All -

Not sure if this is the best location for this, but I haven't spent much time on here.

Back story: My fiance and I have been together for three years, engaged for almost one, and we have known each other for six. Best friends who ended up realizing we were meant to be.

We recently went to buy a condo but due to our collective student debt we are only able to get FHA financing. Not terrible, but it limits our options quite a bit more than we expected. We originally planned on getting married in Fall of 2017 but now we are thinking of doing things in reverse.

Get married, open joint accounts and work together to pay down his loans and then mine...going from highest monthly payment amount to lowest. We are not sure how to do this without sacrificing the "party" aspect of a wedding. He is an entertainer and all about that stuff. I know we can keep our budget low and we already have a fantastic venue in mind.

My question is this:
Has anyone out there gotten married 6-8 months (at the courthouse) before their actual wedding? Have you been able to keep it a secret and start reaping the financial rewards etc. before actually doing the rest?

I'm also looking for advice as far as engagement notices, invitations etc. We haven't sent out or put anything in the paper. I thought about sending announcements/engagement photos around Christmas time but that just seems tacky.

Your "actual wedding" is when you get married. Legally. A dress and a party =/= real wedding. There is no need to mail engagement notices to people. If anything, you mail wedding announcements after the wedding.

Maggie0829 · September 2015

HerbalHippie said:

Hi All -

Not sure if this is the best location for this, but I haven't spent much time on here.

Back story: My fiance and I have been together for three years, engaged for almost one, and we have known each other for six. Best friends who ended up realizing we were meant to be.

We recently went to buy a condo but due to our collective student debt we are only able to get FHA financing. Not terrible, but it limits our options quite a bit more than we expected. We originally planned on getting married in Fall of 2017 but now we are thinking of doing things in reverse.

Get married, open joint accounts and work together to pay down his loans and then mine...going from highest monthly payment amount to lowest. We are not sure how to do this without sacrificing the "party" aspect of a wedding. He is an entertainer and all about that stuff. I know we can keep our budget low and we already have a fantastic venue in mind.

My question is this:
Has anyone out there gotten married 6-8 months (at the courthouse) before their actual wedding? Have you been able to keep it a secret and start reaping the financial rewards etc. before actually doing the rest?

I'm also looking for advice as far as engagement notices, invitations etc. We haven't sent out or put anything in the paper. I thought about sending announcements/engagement photos around Christmas time but that just seems tacky.

Your wedding will be the one that took place at the courthouse.

You do not send engagement notices. You can put one in your local newspaper if you want, but you don't send postcards saying "We are engaged!" to people. But you can send wedding announcements to people immediately after you are married at the courthouse.

Then when you are financially settled (maybe around your 1 year anniversary) have a "Yay we got married a year ago!" party and invite your family and friends. Have awesome food, music, get a killer dress (not a wedding dress, just a killer "I would never have bought this otherwise" dress), hire a photog to take pictures, and a cake because cake. But don't reenact your ceremony or have a bouquet toss or garter toss or a whole bunch of spotlight dances or a wedding party.

spockforprez · September 2015

Hi, I responded to this in Reception Ideas as well - but just another FYI that you don't have to be married to have joint accounts!

spockforprez · September 2015

Also, I see now that you're saying you'd get married 6-8 months before the August 2017 wedding... so January-March 2017. Not sure how those extra six months give you anything beneficial? I was assuming when I responded previously that you meant getting married now.

EarthyBride2017 · September 2015

Most helpful response. Note to self...do not "talk out" ideas on here...wow lol

EarthyBride2017 · September 2015

The biggest thing about being married (even if we can have joint outside of marriage) is the fact that he has double the amount of debt that I do. We would be paying his down, not mine...not about to do that without some legal protection.

Guess you can't elope and do any sort of reception after that...I already have a dress and don't want to relinquish the whole day completely. At the same time I'm more concerned with saving money and doing what works for us. Guess there is no happy medium lol

EarthyBride2017 · September 2015

Good to know, thanks

ShesSoCold · September 2015

HerbalHippie said:

The biggest thing about being married (even if we can have joint outside of marriage) is the fact that he has double the amount of debt that I do. We would be paying his down, not mine...not about to do that without some legal protection.

Guess you can't elope and do any sort of reception after that...I already have a dress and don't want to relinquish the whole day completely. At the same time I'm more concerned with saving money and doing what works for us. Guess there is no happy medium lol

There absolutely is. There are a lot of ways to have a budget wedding that don't include lying to your family and friends.

You could have a small wedding and reception with your closest family and friends, you could have a larger wedding at a non meal time (2 or 8pm) and serve cake and punch instead of having to serve a full meal.

You also can get married at the courthouse and have a larger party later, but it wouldn't be a wedding reception and a wedding dress, ceremony and all that wedding jazz would be inappropriate.

spockforprez · September 2015

HerbalHippie said: The biggest thing about being married (even if we can have joint outside of marriage) is the fact that he has double the amount of debt that I do. We would be paying his down, not mine...not about to do that without some legal protection.
Guess you can't elope and do any sort of reception after that...I already have a dress and don't want to relinquish the whole day completely. At the same time I'm more concerned with saving money and doing what works for us. Guess there is no happy medium lol *************************************************

Hmm. I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. I also have a lot more debt than my FH does, mostly student loans but also a car note. What legal protection does marriage provide you for paying off his debts? If you get married, then pay his debts, I don't think if you divorce you get a refund on those payments or anything. If anything, you'll be equally responsible for his debts after you get married (depending on your state and your divorce decree). Not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand what benefit you'll be getting by marrying prior to helping him pay down his debt.

I try not to judge couples' financial decisions, as there are a number of ways to set up finances, but I do think it's a little bit troubling that you want to marry this person but don't see the debts and assets being both of yours instead of his vs. yours.

EarthyBride2017 · September 2015

I guess I just have to agree to disagree. I'm the youngest of 10 so our wedding would mostly be a family reunion...if I was to get legally married 6 months or less before that it wouldn't be a secret - our parents and close friends would know this. I don't see anyone getting butt hurt over us not including them in the "legal" part. Valid point though, so thank you for your input.

EarthyBride2017 · September 2015

His debt is in the hundreds of thousands...mine is very very low. We would do a prenuptial agreement if we were to get married. Don't get me wrong, I love him dearly but he is a gigging musician (with a full time job thankfully) that hopes to tour full time in a year or so.

Anyone who dates a musician may understand where I'm coming from :-/

spockforprez · September 2015

HerbalHippie said:

His debt is in the hundreds of thousands...mine is very very low. We would do a prenuptial agreement if we were to get married. Don't get me wrong, I love him dearly but he is a gigging musician (with a full time job thankfully) that hopes to tour full time in a year or so.

Anyone who dates a musician may understand where I'm coming from :-/

I'm still not 100% with you... what if the tour never happens and he's a gigging musician forever? Or even if he drops the music, what if he never makes more than half of what you make? It sounds like you have some fear or resentment of being the breadwinner. I would definitely make sure it is discussed in 10000% detail prior to getting married (though if you guys have already discussed prenup you may have already covered it).

Whatever choices you guys make together, I still think you only get one wedding, including the legal portion (which IS a wedding!). If it's important to you to have a larger wedding, then I would wait and have that wedding as budget allows. If that stuff isn't important to you, then do the courthouse wedding--you can still have guests, wear a white dress, bouquet, nice reception at a local restaurant, cut the cake, photographer, etc. it just wouldn't be for as large of a crowd.

justsie · September 2015

I just don't understand what 6-8 months is going to get you? Why not just wait and allow your family to actually see you get married, instead of having to watch a re-enactment. What you are wanting is called a PPD around here, or a pretty princess day. It isn't taken to kindly because a lot of people that do it do it to either deceive their family or because they want to dress up pretty and have a party. You can get married without the big party, or you can have a big party/host a family reunion without having to pretend your getting married. The two don't have to be together.

Being on these boards has shown me that a LOT of people have an issue with what you are proposing, and a LOT of people will never say something about it to someones face.

thespeshulestsnowflake · September 2015

Read this: http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1036614/legally-married-now-having-a-real-wedding-stop-here-first-aka-the-ppd-faq-thread#latest

JediElizabeth · September 2015

HerbalHippie said:

The biggest thing about being married (even if we can have joint outside of marriage) is the fact that he has double the amount of debt that I do. We would be paying his down, not mine...not about to do that without some legal protection.

Guess you can't elope and do any sort of reception after that...I already have a dress and don't want to relinquish the whole day completely. At the same time I'm more concerned with saving money and doing what works for us. Guess there is no happy medium lol

You don't need to be married to have a joint bank account or start paying down his debt. Nor do you need to have a joint bank account or completely shared finances if you are married.

Please, put away the elopement idea for now, and go do some financial research. I hopped onto google and typed in "marriage finances debt" to see what was out there, and those key words netted me quite a few results. Figure out how you can budget together before the wedding, whether or not you personally want to start putting your assets into his debt. Remember that getting rid of your debt will also bring down the net debt between you, so concentrate on that for now. Possibly, put what you would pay toward his debt into a down payment account instead of directly into his bills - then if anything happens, that money will just be your savings and you'll be covered.

After you've done your own research, talk to an actual financial adviser if you can - making the right decisions now is probably going to be worth the setback in their fees.

Maggie0829 · September 2015

HerbalHippie said:

The biggest thing about being married (even if we can have joint outside of marriage) is the fact that he has double the amount of debt that I do. We would be paying his down, not mine...not about to do that without some legal protection.

Guess you can't elope and do any sort of reception after that...I already have a dress and don't want to relinquish the whole day completely. At the same time I'm more concerned with saving money and doing what works for us. Guess there is no happy medium lol

Pretty sure I said in my post above that you could still have a kick ass party, but it needs to be a "yay we are married" party rather then a wedding since you would have already been married. And if you already have a dress then wear it. Just nix the veil and keep the train bustled.

I get not wanting to help pay down his debt when you aren't married. But then again you could get married, help pay down his debt and then separate/divorce and still be out the money. Unless of course you sign some sort of prenup that states that your debts/moneies are separate and that any money of yours that you use to help pay down his debt he needs to repay to you upon a divorce.

EarthyBride2017 · September 2015

Getting married we would have a prenup - I know everyone has their opinions on that, but it would protect both of us.

The unfortunate part is that if I pay down my debts it isn't going to change our collective debt-to-income ratio as he has more debt and a lower salary and I have less debt and a higher salary that climbs almost annually. That is where it gets tricky - a financial planner and our lender encourage us to pay his debt down...that is why I personally want the legal protection with a prenup marriage.

Thank you all for your input! Lots to think about.

snowywinter · September 2015

Sorry, I'm dense. How is getting married with a prenup more protection than just not getting married now?

justsie · September 2015

snowywinter said:

Sorry, I'm dense. How is getting married with a prenup more protection than just not getting married now?

Or writing up a contact right now?

kimmiinthemitten · September 2015

HerbalHippie said:

Getting married we would have a prenup - I know everyone has their opinions on that, but it would protect both of us.

The unfortunate part is that if I pay down my debts it isn't going to change our collective debt-to-income ratio as he has more debt and a lower salary and I have less debt and a higher salary that climbs almost annually. That is where it gets tricky - a financial planner and our lender encourage us to pay his debt down...that is why I personally want the legal protection with a prenup marriage.

Thank you all for your input! Lots to think about.

Or buying a home in your name only. In my household, I'm the breadwinner but FI has the credit. We bought a house together last summer. With the advice of a lawyer, everything was in his name, I followed the letter of the law with my half of the down payment, we opened a joint checking account, the mortgage payments are made out of an account that belongs to us equally and the Land Deed has been amended to reflect both of us. We also are in the process of writing our wills and took out equal size life insurance policies for the appraised value of the home so in case something happens we each have the finances to buy out the mortgage.

In Michigan, an owned home is a marital asset so I'll automatically assume half ownership if something happens after the marriage and in a few years we'll have an easier time refinancing so that the mortgage can help continue to build my credit.

The PP's and I are just trying to show you that there are many other ways to work through this.

ETA: I am pro prenup! I have debt, FI has a pension and I don't want to be entitled to his pension if we divorce nor do I want him to assume my debt!

MesmrEwe · September 2015

Financial reality 101: Debt is DEBT! Paying off debt means less debt. Regardless of "whose" debt gets paid off first. Your debt load still exists for both of you individually, and not being married may work to your advantage on all things home loans. Maybe talk to an accountant because you may have some tax advantages to not being married quite yet. IMO, keep your original date because it sounds like you need to do a lot of work planning the marriage before the big day arrives. Especially since you're already talking pre-nup - lawyers don't write these up for free, there is a cost.

IMO, pay your debt off during this time while you aren't married. Plan ONE wedding and reception, not a do-over dress-up party. Unless his name is Doctor or CNP, having student debt in the hundreds of thousands might be a red flag that you want to spend some more time discussing this whole being married thing in the first place. Also, the choice in where you live can make a difference in programs available for replayment (Depending on his degree field, many states have incentive programs available for those who work in poorer parts of the state - I know someone who it's $10,000/yr for 10 years that the program pays off. It doesn't exempt her from monthly payments, but at the end of the day, it's biting off large sections of the student debt simply based on where she chose to work).. Also, depending on how "gift taxes" work in your state, there may be other ways that this can get quickly complicated before you're married if you pay off his debt to an extent.

Until you're married, no paying off the other's debt, it's just a lot less messy this way! Keep your original date, plan the event you can afford, not a dress-up faux party that you've lied to your guests about marital status. Guests hate lies, pure and simple!

Jells2dot0 · September 2015

H and I bought a home prior to getting married. We have a prenup (and a postnup) but since we got the house prior to getting married, we had a contract drawn up stating that our debts are our own, with the exception of the home, in which if we were to split prior to marriage, we would each be responsible for half. Upon our marriage, it would become community property. So, contracts can exist prior to a marriage.

As for eloping, we did elope. We told everyone when we got back. However, we chose to not throw a party. We could have easily thrown a celebration of marriage party, though! I would done it all up like a wedding reception, minus anything "wedding-y". I definitely would have had cake, though!!! And while we are very financially sound, I personally would not go through the motions of throwing a party while in such debt. I would wait until things are more stable and have an awesome anniversary party. JMHO.

primafaba15 · September 2015

I don't really have anything to add about the wedding planning aspect, but as someone in a similar situation (I have no debt, he has about 100K, his job is slightly more stable than musician but neither of us make much), I just want to say that you should make sure you know how marriage affects those loan payments (maybe you already do).

H is on income based repayment and once we combine finances formally my income is included which means several of his monthly payments would triple. Fortunately, the rules with his particular loans mean that we'd have to actually file taxes together for this to happen -- just marriage or having joint accounts won't do it. But until we knew that, we considered postponing marriage until we felt ready to field those payments.

I do understand why you want legal protections before starting to pay off his debt -- it's a scary thing, taking on that much! H and I had a lot of frank conversations even before he proposed about the exact numbers he owes, what's federal vs. private and what the game plan is. We didn't do a prenup, but that has to be a personal decision.

Do you maybe have some smaller loans of your own that you could tackle in the meantime? Ideally you want to tackle the big ones first, but I will say that H had a couple of small loans (one student, one car) that he insisted on paying off before he proposed. It made him feel a lot better to have even one fewer loan collecting interest, even if it wasn't one of the huge ones (and he was still making payments on those, obviously).

julieanne912 · September 2015

Question... even if you did have a prenup, and you pay towards his debt, how on earth would he pay you back if you got divorced? If he doesn't have the money to pay his own stuff now, how will he have it later to pay you back?

Jells2dot0 · September 2015

julieanne912 said:

Question... even if you did have a prenup, and you pay towards his debt, how on earth would he pay you back if you got divorced? If he doesn't have the money to pay his own stuff now, how will he have it later to pay you back?

The courts could order a wage garnishment or one could also file for one. However, the point of my prenup is the keep things separate, though it does allow for gifts to be given with the expectation that those gifts not be returned. The courts may view her assistance as a gift, unless things are specifically spelled out. In my case, if I went through the trouble of keeping things separate, I certainly would not be going out of my way to help pay the debt down with my own money.

julieanne912 · September 2015

Jells2dot0 said:

julieanne912 said:

Question... even if you did have a prenup, and you pay towards his debt, how on earth would he pay you back if you got divorced? If he doesn't have the money to pay his own stuff now, how will he have it later to pay you back?

The courts could order a wage garnishment or one could also file for one. However, the point of my prenup is the keep things separate, though it does allow for gifts to be given with the expectation that those gifts not be returned. The courts may view her assistance as a gift, unless things are specifically spelled out. In my case, if I went through the trouble of keeping things separate, I certainly would not be going out of my way to help pay the debt down with my own money.

Yeah and then he could just take jobs that pay cash under the table so they can't garnish his wages.

I guess my point is, even with a prenup, there's no guarantee she'd get her money back that she contributed to his debt. If she's so worried about a divorce happening in the future, she'd be better off keeping her money and just putting it in a savings account that is only in her name I would think.

As a side note, I would seriously reconsider marrying someone who was irresponsible enough to run up hundreds of thousands in debt, without having a good plan to pay it off other than relying on a future spouse to do it for them.

Jells2dot0 · September 2015

To me, prenup does NOT equal worried about divorce. My prenup basically sets the stage for how will conduct our finances and other business DURING our marriage. It really doesn't go into any detail about how things will work out if the marriage ends (other than waiving our rights to spousal support.) So she might be getting a prenup just because of not having the debt any way tied to her name during the marriage. This will allow her to buy cars, homes, etc. He can gift her money but everything would be in her name.

That being said, I re-read the OP and I'm def scratching my head about "financial rewards". When we got married, our tax burden went UP as did the cost of our insurance (so we kept that separate). There were certainly ZERO financial incentives for me!

julieanne912 · September 2015

Jells2dot0 said:

To me, prenup does NOT equal worried about divorce. My prenup basically sets the stage for how will conduct our finances and other business DURING our marriage. It really doesn't go into any detail about how things will work out if the marriage ends (other than waiving our rights to spousal support.) So she might be getting a prenup just because of not having the debt any way tied to her name during the marriage. This will allow her to buy cars, homes, etc. He can gift her money but everything would be in her name.
That being said, I re-read the OP and I'm def scratching my head about "financial rewards". When we got married, our tax burden went UP as did the cost of our insurance (so we kept that separate). There were certainly ZERO financial incentives for me!

Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. We almost did a prenup as well but then got lazy and didn't do it. I just feel like she's overly concerned about what happens to her money after they get married. If she wants to pay down his debt so she can reap the benefits (ie lower debt = better deal on a mortgage for them both), then there's going to be some risk involved there. I was just basically saying a prenup doesn't eliminate the risk 100%.... it helps for sure, but doesn't eliminate.

And yeah... I don't know what other "financial benefits" there are to getting married, other than maybe getting to be on each others' health insurance or something? We're sticking to our own insurances. If anything, it can be a detriment if you're higher earners. We will likely end up in a higher bracket once we combine.

STARMOON44 · September 2015

I don't understand why you think buying a home is a good idea anyway when he has 100k in debt and doubtful prospects for making money to pay it back. Seems like you can't afford to buy anyway. And if you need an FHA loan obviously you don't have a 20% down payment and good credit ratings.

Non Traditional Wedding Advice Needed! -Eloping and then having a party?!

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