Mother in Flaw (?)

Knottie34398572 · June 2016

Since our engagement, my FMIL has presented my fiancé and I will an extraordinary amount of pushback, requests, and dramatic reactions fit for a scorned teenage girl. The kicker is, my family is paying for the entirety of the $200k+ wedding, including myself.

As as an overview, we live in NYC, which presents us with very expensive options. I understand that not everyone can afford such a wedding, and I am in an extraordinary circumstance for which I am very grateful. The difficulty, however, has been in my FMIL having certain expectations based on my family's abilities, and it has made me feel taken advantage of. To wit, she has:

-Propounded a guest list of 80 people, which is more than my fiancé and I combined. When we asked her to cut that number down due to financial considerations (politely, I might add!), she began to cry and stopped talking to my fiancé for two days. She has even ignored my parents' request to keep her list at a certain number of persons.

-We are having a black tie affair so I've asked all walking down the aisle to wear a long black gown, so there is some cohesion. This has been, quite literally, the only request I've made regarding same. She immediately said "no."

-She told my fiancé that she has no intention of providing for a rehearsal dinner, and did so without consulting her husband who later told my fiancé that they would assist. Her response? "Ignore your father, we are not contributing."

-She has asked us to pay for her parking, hair, and make up.

-She asked us to add more rooms to the hotel block to accommodate her friends, even though I told her I would be financially responsible for rooms unfilled/more rooms than the contract allows. She pressed the issue because her best friend had not yet booked a room, even though she had several months to do so.

-While she offered to throw a bridal shower, in addition to my own mother's, her guest list consisted of no less than 10 of her friends (on a list of 15 people). I never met and/or heard of the friends listed, and expressed that I would feel uncomfortable essentially asking persons whom I've never met or have no relationship with to attend a celebration in my honor and/or purchase a gift.

-She created a list of songs she wants to hear at the wedding and got upset when we told her that we would consult with the band (again, paid for by my family) and pick great music.

-All of the save-the-dates for my friends, fiance's friends, and his family were paid for by me. She did not offer to assist considering the extraordinary expense and amount mailed to her family and friends.

-Since all bridesmaids, sisters, and even stepmother have been excited and sent pictures of dress choices--I NEVER asked for them!--I asked if she would provide a photo, too. She FLIPPED out and told me that I had no right to pick her dress. I never said I would or wanted to, just asked if she intended to send photos, too. Everyone is excited and wants to share their part, I guess she's not? The text berating me was literally war and peace.

I've had several crying meltdowns over the behavior because I have anxiety that any step in the process will be met with something bizarre. I know wedding planning isn't always a pleasant process, but this has made me dread things that should otherwise be exciting and joyful. I'm afraid she's taken that from me. What do I do?

Viczaesar · June 2016

Knottie34398572 said:

Since our engagement, my FMIL has presented my fiancé and I will an extraordinary amount of pushback, requests, and dramatic reactions fit for a scorned teenage girl. The kicker is, my family is paying for the entirety of the $200k+ wedding, including myself.

As as an overview, we live in NYC, which presents us with very expensive options. I understand that not everyone can afford such a wedding, and I am in an extraordinary circumstance for which I am very grateful. The difficulty, however, has been in my FMIL having certain expectations based on my family's abilities, and it has made me feel taken advantage of. To wit, she has:

-Propounded a guest list of 80 people, which is more than my fiancé and I combined. When we asked her to cut that number down due to financial considerations (politely, I might add!), she began to cry and stopped talking to my fiancé for two days. She has even ignored my parents' request to keep her list at a certain number of persons.

-We are having a black tie affair so I've asked all walking down the aisle to wear a long black gown, so there is some cohesion. This has been, quite literally, the only request I've made regarding same. She immediately said "no." You're out of line here. You have no right to dictate the attire of anyone who is not in your wedding party (your bridesmaids). You don't get to tell the parents how to dress, regardless of what type of wedding you're having. Also, black tie =/= same color dresses for everyone, so I don't even follow your logic here.

-She told my fiancé that she has no intention of providing for a rehearsal dinner, and did so without consulting her husband who later told my fiancé that they would assist. Her response? "Ignore your father, we are not contributing." Let them work that out between themselves. It's their choice. They can decide together whether or not to gift you a rehearsal dinner; you are not owed one. If they do decide to gift you one they get to decide the parameters (location, type of food, price, guest list, etc.).

-She has asked us to pay for her parking, hair, and make up. Unless you are trying to require her to get professional hair or make-up just say no, politely. For the parking, I need more information.

-She asked us to add more rooms to the hotel block to accommodate her friends, even though I told her I would be financially responsible for rooms unfilled/more rooms than the contract allows. She pressed the issue because her best friend had not yet booked a room, even though she had several months to do so. Can you add one more? Sounds frankly like you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

-While she offered to throw a bridal shower, in addition to my own mother's, her guest list consisted of no less than 10 of her friends (on a list of 15 people). I never met and/or heard of the friends listed, and expressed that I would feel uncomfortable essentially asking persons whom I've never met or have no relationship with to attend a celebration in my honor and/or purchase a gift. You can decline a shower for whatever reason, but she's not a heinous bitch for offering to host a small shower for her side consisting mostly of her friends. She wants them to meet her soon-to-be DIL. It's not a big deal.

-She created a list of songs she wants to hear at the wedding and got upset when we told her that we would consult with the band (again, paid for by my family) and pick great music. Would it kill you to have them play at least a few of those songs? Who the hell cares who's paying for the band?

-All of the save-the-dates for my friends, fiance's friends, and his family were paid for by me. She did not offer to assist considering the extraordinary expense and amount mailed to her family and friends. Your wedding, your responsibility. Not hers.

-Since all bridesmaids, sisters, and even stepmother have been excited and sent pictures of dress choices--I NEVER asked for them!--I asked if she would provide a photo, too. She FLIPPED out and told me that I had no right to pick her dress. I never said I would or wanted to, just asked if she intended to send photos, too. Everyone is excited and wants to share their part, I guess she's not? The text berating me was literally war and peace. This is related to your earlier misstep. You've already demonstrated that you're trying to control what she wears. Butt out of her outfit. It is NOT a leap for her to think that you're trying to have veto/approval rights on her dress. (Also, you're using literally wrong.)

I've had several crying meltdowns over the behavior because I have anxiety that any step in the process will be met with something bizarre. I know wedding planning isn't always a pleasant process, but this has made me dread things that should otherwise be exciting and joyful. I'm afraid she's taken that from me. What do I do?

It sounds like this is a combination of her being a little difficult, you overstepping your boundaries, and you having unrealistic expectations. You need to dial back your expectations and stop obsessing over unimportant disagreements.

OliveOilsMom · June 2016

Vic has given great advice.

You also need to set boundaries with FMIL. If you and your FI are in agreement that she needs to trim down her guest list, your FI should tell her "Mom, you need to trim your guest list down to x number. I'm sorry that you would rather have more people attend, but we cannot accommodate your full list. If you are unable to cut your list by y date, I will do it for you." This needs to come from FI alone, blood handles blood. FI should also rather, rinse, and repeat it as necessary. There does not need to be any further explanation as to why.

If at anytime FMIL begins to cry or have a meltdown. FI needs to calmly say, "Mom, I love you but I cannot talk to you when you get like this. We can talk again later. Bye." Then hang up or leave the conversation. It will teach FMIL that her antics can't get her what she wants. But also know, that it may not change her antics. You cannot control the behaviors of others, you can only change your reaction to their behavior. So change your reaction to her antics.

You have no reason to dictate any color or dress choice of FMIL, so just let her pick whatever she wants. If she wears anything inappropriate, it will make her look bad, not you. If you require FMIL to have professional hair & make up (this goes for your BP too), then you need to pay for it.

This is your wedding and the responsibility to pay for it is on you and your FI. Your parents have generously offered to pay for the wedding and that is fine. But don't expect FMIL to pay for anything and that includes STDs or any other wedding invitation stationary. That also includes a rehearsal dinner, but first let FMIL and FFIL come to the conclusion on the RD. If you keep hearing different stories, then your FI should meet with both his parents at the same time and ask them what it is. Yes or no, because otherwise you and your FI need to plan one. But also know a RD isn't necessary unless you have an actual rehearsal. It also wouldn't kill you to play a few of FMILs song requests at the reception.

I would also like more information to the parking costs. Is this in relation to having your wedding in NYC? Do guests attending your wedding need to pay for parking? If yes, then you need to change that. You are having a black tie wedding, the tops of the top and you need to fully accommodate your entire guest list, which includes parking.

ei34 · June 2016

Her crying/tantrums/silent treatments sound super annoying. Let her work out the RD with her husband. If she wants to throw you her own shower, that's fine, as long as the friends she's inviting are also invited to your wedding. (And that there's no overlap on your mother's shower guest list, aside from immediate family and BP.) Are the songs she's requesting the band play very offensive or inappropriate? If not, I don't see what the problem is here. And her attire shouldn't be a concern at all.
Oh and "mother in flaw" is very clever, I've never heard that before

ernursej · June 2016

I'm sorry that you are having this experience.

Most people on here will tell you that those that pay get a say, so if she isn't paying, she gets no say. If she continues to throw a fit about everything, I would just bean dip and not respond. No one will ever be as excited or interested in your wedding as you, but if you have friends and family that are interested and excited ... look to those individuals to share in your joy.

Any member of a wedding party (MOH/bridesmaids/groomsmen/BM) should technically wear the outfit that the bride and groom choose and if you are telling people to wear long black gowns ... you are giving more leeway than most brides. The same attire doesn't apply to those outside the wedding party and is actually quite rude to dictate what your guests wear. Asking guests to wear black tie attire is technically allowed, but beyond that, guests can choose their black tie attire themselves.

As someone who has anxiety, I get the feelings of being overwhelmed and that your FMIL's behaviour is upsetting. I would encourage you to seek out someone who is supportive to speak with so that you can discuss your feelings and find the joy in your upcoming wedding.

Jen4948 · June 2016

Knottie34398572 said:

Since our engagement, my FMIL has presented my fiancé and I will an extraordinary amount of pushback, requests, and dramatic reactions fit for a scorned teenage girl. The kicker is, my family is paying for the entirety of the $200k+ wedding, including myself.

If she's not paying, she's not entitled to a say. If you've been bean-dipping her (this is what I'd recommend as an initial response to her demands and drama) without success, then your FI needs to make that clear to her - firmly. Leave that to him.

As as an overview, we live in NYC, which presents us with very expensive options. I understand that not everyone can afford such a wedding, and I am in an extraordinary circumstance for which I am very grateful. The difficulty, however, has been in my FMIL having certain expectations based on my family's abilities, and it has made me feel taken advantage of. To wit, she has:

-Propounded a guest list of 80 people, which is more than my fiancé and I combined. When we asked her to cut that number down due to financial considerations (politely, I might add!), she began to cry and stopped talking to my fiancé for two days. She has even ignored my parents' request to keep her list at a certain number of persons.

Again, your FI needs to be very firm that if she doesn't cut her list, you two will.

-We are having a black tie affair so I've asked all walking down the aisle to wear a long black gown, so there is some cohesion. This has been, quite literally, the only request I've made regarding same. She immediately said "no."

In this instance you were wrong. You only have the right to dictate what you wear and what your attendants wear - but not anyone else - regardless of whether or not it's cohesive. I'd apologize to your FMIL for this.

-She told my fiancé that she has no intention of providing for a rehearsal dinner, and did so without consulting her husband who later told my fiancé that they would assist. Her response? "Ignore your father, we are not contributing."

I'd plan and pay for your own rehearsal dinner without expecting your FILs to pay for it.

-She has asked us to pay for her parking, hair, and make up.

Have your FI tell her no.

-She asked us to add more rooms to the hotel block to accommodate her friends, even though I told her I would be financially responsible for rooms unfilled/more rooms than the contract allows. She pressed the issue because her best friend had not yet booked a room, even though she had several months to do so.

Again, you can tell her no and stand firm. But I would put it gently: "Unfortunately it isn't possible for me to add any more rooms to the hotel block at this point."

-While she offered to throw a bridal shower, in addition to my own mother's, her guest list consisted of no less than 10 of her friends (on a list of 15 people). I never met and/or heard of the friends listed, and expressed that I would feel uncomfortable essentially asking persons whom I've never met or have no relationship with to attend a celebration in my honor and/or purchase a gift.

As long as everyone she wants to invite to her shower is invited to the wedding, there's no overlap in guest lists with your mom's shower, and the scheduling works for all parties involved, I'd let this one go.

-She created a list of songs she wants to hear at the wedding and got upset when we told her that we would consult with the band (again, paid for by my family) and pick great music.

Can you accommodate any of her requests? If so, I'd try to accommodate at least one. If it isn't possible, then I'd have your FI tell her, "Mom, we looked into this for you, but unfortunately it's not a possibility." And bean-dip any future attempts on her part to continue her complaint.

-All of the save-the-dates for my friends, fiance's friends, and his family were paid for by me. She did not offer to assist considering the extraordinary expense and amount mailed to her family and friends.

At this point I'd let this one go.

-Since all bridesmaids, sisters, and even stepmother have been excited and sent pictures of dress choices--I NEVER asked for them!--I asked if she would provide a photo, too. She FLIPPED out and told me that I had no right to pick her dress. I never said I would or wanted to, just asked if she intended to send photos, too. Everyone is excited and wants to share their part, I guess she's not? The text berating me was literally war and peace.

While you have no right to pick her dress for her whether or not you said you would or wanted to, I 'd ignore her text unless she brings it up again, in which case you can tell her, "I got your message the first time and am not trying to pick your dress."

I've had several crying meltdowns over the behavior because I have anxiety that any step in the process will be met with something bizarre. I know wedding planning isn't always a pleasant process, but this has made me dread things that should otherwise be exciting and joyful. I'm afraid she's taken that from me. What do I do?

I think that 1) you should stop discussing anything wedding-related with your FMIL that she doesn't need to know about, and 2) if she throws any more fits, your FI needs to shut her down with, "Mom, while FI and I are sorry you're upset, this is what we're doing and the subject is closed."

Tyvm · June 2016

I agree with PPs but wanted to add - if OP already sent her Save the Dates, then the guest list is finalized? EVERYONE who receives a Save the Date MUST get an invitation. It's why we recommend STDs solely for your VIPs.

downtondiva · June 2016

As others have said, you don't get to decide what your guests wear, even parents. Let go of the idea of "cohesion" because this is not a hill worth dying on.

For the bridal shower, as long as everyone invited to the wedding who's invited to that, I'd just let her throw one for you. It may help to keep peace and shut her up about some things.

Overall, I think you need to lower your expectations of this woman and stop talking about the wedding with her unless it's really necessary. For now, assume you and FI are paying for the rehearsal dinner. As far as everything else goes, your FI should be dealing with her. Let him handle her meltdowns from now on and stay out of it.

climbingsingle · June 2016

I honestly think both you and your MIL are behaving a little ridiculous.

You should not be telling her what to wear! You are completely overstepping.

Plan and pay for the RD yourselves. Your FI's parents are not obligated to pay for that.

Give her a number of guests she can invite. Tell her you can only accommodate that number.

Are you really fighting over songs?! Give a few requests of hers to the band. I can't actually believe this is an issue. How silly.

Some advice: don't make an enemy of someone who is going to be in your life for a long time. Do you want to have a good relationship with your in-laws? Then you need to compromise. Her child is getting married too.

jacques27 · June 2016

Ditto to everything Vic and Climbing said.

Also, stop being a bean counter and lording your parents money over them or defining your expectations for his parents. It makes you look petty and overshadows what few legitimate complaints you do have (i.e. cutting the guest list, paying for her hair/makeup/parking unless you're requiring her to have her hair and makeup done then you absolutely should be footing the bill).

Your parents volunteering large sums of money for your party in no way obligates his parents to do anything. Pointing out that a percentage of the save the dates were going to her side (which, you do realize is your FI's side, too, right? I mean, you realize you're actually marrying another person and this is his family we're talking about here?) and she didn't help you stuff them or pay for a percentage of them? Petty. Refusing to consider some of the songs she would want to hear because she isn't chipping in for the band? Petty. What if one of your guests has a song request during the reception? Are you going to charge them a fee to contribute toward paying the band in order to consider it?

And back off on the clothing. You were wrong in the first place. And depending on how you phrased your request for a photo, it just adds fuel to the fire. The way you worded it here, you asked for a photo. There's a difference between "Are you planning to send me a photo of your dress?" (which on top of you dictating her attire sounds very controlling) and "Everyone has been sharing photos of their dresses and it's just so fun and exciting to see what everyone has picked out! I'd love to see what fabulous dress you end up with when you pick your dress!" But even then just because everyone else volunteered photos doesn't mean you get to ask for photos from others.

You're going to be family for as long as you stay married to her son or one of you dies, whichever comes first. For the sake of having a relationship after this one day ends, I recommend you stop bean counting and pick your battles for things that actually affect the bottom line (i.e. # of guests means outside your parents budget vs. song requests for a band that is getting hired no matter what and dress choices that in no way affects anyone's enjoyment of the party).

artbyallie · June 2016

My thoughts in bold

Okay, so right off the bat your title is pretty rude. You don't have to love your MIL or even like her, but you don't need to call her names. That said, most of these things you're complaining about regarding her you need to let go.

Knottie34398572 said:

Since our engagement, my FMIL has presented my fiancé and I will an extraordinary amount of pushback, requests, and dramatic reactions fit for a scorned teenage girl. The kicker is, my family is paying for the entirety of the $200k+ wedding, including myself.

As as an overview, we live in NYC, which presents us with very expensive options. I understand that not everyone can afford such a wedding, and I am in an extraordinary circumstance for which I am very grateful. The difficulty, however, has been in my FMIL having certain expectations based on my family's abilities, and it has made me feel taken advantage of. To wit, she has:

-Propounded a guest list of 80 people, which is more than my fiancé and I combined. When we asked her to cut that number down due to financial considerations (politely, I might add!), she began to cry and stopped talking to my fiancé for two days. She has even ignored my parents' request to keep her list at a certain number of persons.

What does your FI do in response to this? You two should be a united front, but FI should do the talking when it comes to their side of the family. And FI should do make the cuts if FMIL will not.

-We are having a black tie affair so I've asked all walking down the aisle to wear a long black gown, so there is some cohesion. This has been, quite literally, the only request I've made regarding same. She immediately said "no."

You don't get to tell an adult who is not in the wedding party what to wear. Period. A cocktail length dress can be appropriate for a black tie wedding. And you don't get to dictate the color either. The 'black' in black tie does not determine what color dress a woman can wear.

-She told my fiancé that she has no intention of providing for a rehearsal dinner, and did so without consulting her husband who later told my fiancé that they would assist. Her response? "Ignore your father, we are not contributing."

They don't have to do ANYTHING for your wedding, so drop it and plan everything as if they are not contributing.

-She has asked us to pay for her parking, hair, and make up.

FI can politely tell her this is not happening.

-She asked us to add more rooms to the hotel block to accommodate her friends, even though I told her I would be financially responsible for rooms unfilled/more rooms than the contract allows. She pressed the issue because her best friend had not yet booked a room, even though she had several months to do so.

FI can politely tell her this is not happening. Additionally, you signed a bad contract if you have to pay for unfilled rooms. That should never be a requirement. Especially in NY, there should be no reason they cannot release and sell those rooms.

-While she offered to throw a bridal shower, in addition to my own mother's, her guest list consisted of no less than 10 of her friends (on a list of 15 people). I never met and/or heard of the friends listed, and expressed that I would feel uncomfortable essentially asking persons whom I've never met or have no relationship with to attend a celebration in my honor and/or purchase a gift.

You are right to decline a shower where the guests are not invited to the wedding.

-She created a list of songs she wants to hear at the wedding and got upset when we told her that we would consult with the band (again, paid for by my family) and pick great music.

Her getting upset need not effect you. She is paying for nothing; she is not part of the planning.

-All of the save-the-dates for my friends, fiance's friends, and his family were paid for by me. She did not offer to assist considering the extraordinary expense and amount mailed to her family and friends.

Again, she DOES NOT HAVE TO PAY.

-Since all bridesmaids, sisters, and even stepmother have been excited and sent pictures of dress choices--I NEVER asked for them!--I asked if she would provide a photo, too. She FLIPPED out and told me that I had no right to pick her dress. I never said I would or wanted to, just asked if she intended to send photos, too. Everyone is excited and wants to share their part, I guess she's not? The text berating me was literally war and peace.

She is right. You should not have asked for pictures. Difference is, the others volunteered. You voluntold, and yes, that comes across as 'I want to have a say in your dress.'

I've had several crying meltdowns over the behavior because I have anxiety that any step in the process will be met with something bizarre. I know wedding planning isn't always a pleasant process, but this has made me dread things that should otherwise be exciting and joyful. I'm afraid she's taken that from me. What do I do?

This is so not worth having crying meltdowns over. STOP talking to her about any and all things wedding related. Direct any questions she has to FI because blood talks to blood. It seems like you are being a touch overdramatic here.

And again, what are your FI's thoughts on any of this? Your entire post is all about you and FMIL. It's FI's wedding too. You two should be getting joy out of planning together.

Knottie34398572 · June 2016

To clarify several points here:

I think several people went a little balls to the wall here on a situation where I have never made a single demand. The point was to illustrate that I haven't been able to plan this wedding without push back on every single part of the process. And never once did I said, "you must," "you shall," or "you will" to this woman. That needs to be made clear first and foremost.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that my own parents are bothered by the fact that his parents are not contributing. But more than that, that they didn't even say anything to my parents on the subject. So my parents were kind of like, "I guess this is falling to us?" Not everyone is able to participate in a meaningful way--regardless of what that could entail, money or otherwise--so my parents are a bit upset that nothing was ever said, because they have been left wondering and scratching their heads over what the FIL's intend to do.

With respect to other things, I mentioned that my bridal party would wear long black gowns. I never told her, "you MUST do this." Regardless, I was met with "no, I'm not doing that" immediately. And it wasn't in a particularly nice way, despite the fact that it wasn't in response to a question. And when I asked for a photo, it was also, "I would love to see a photo of the dress you were thinking of!" This was completely in context. She actually asked me to forward photos of other people's dresses, so it fell in line with that conversation. It was not an independent ask that had no context, it was directly from a conversation where SHE asked for photos of other people's dresses which, btw, I happily sent her. She also went out of her way to ask my mother for pictures of my dress, because she wanted to see it. I do not believe I was acting out of line when I made my comment because she asked to see other people's dresses and I just responded in kind. Her response was awfully misplaced, I feel, because I said it would be nice to have a photo of hers too. Her response, to me, did not make sense based on what I said.

With respect to STD, she was allotted a certain number of guests to *attend* but could invite whoever she wanted. Basically it's because my parents are more concerned with who is there because that's who they are paying for. So, my parents asked that if more than a certain number attend of those invited, they told my FIL to pay for the amount of people over who they said would attend. She told my family that of those, promised that only X amount would come, and just invited the others as a courtesy. Now, of course, no one really knows who will show up to a wedding until the rsvp's are in--we get that--but they are over the number my parents set, and have no intention to pay for the overage. My parents aren't happy because they asked for assistance in this and feel like they were taken advantage of.

For the hotel, I signed a contract that maxed out the number of rooms avail in our block, which would not cause financially liability if they didn't fill. They filled. Were I to ask for more rooms, I'd be financially responsible for those additional rooms were they not to fill. I explained this to her, and she still demanded more rooms for her friends who were a bit slow to book. She swore they would fill, and I wouldn't be in a tight spot. She asked several times, too. I stupidly obliged, thinking it would be easier than her getting upset, and asked the hotel to add more rooms. With the prior behavior and the like, I really just didn't want to deal with more crying. Months later, there are several rooms that remain available, which, if unfilled, will cost me around $2k because I signed the contract. I am crossing my fingers they fill. Was it stupid on my part? Yes. But it made me feel badly that she ignored the possibility that I'd be financially liable.

Parking in NYC isn't free, of course, but there are many garages. The hotel where she is staying does not have a lot, so she asked us to pay for her parking.

Whether or not there is a rehearsal dinner, we don't particularly care. It was that she made a unilateral decision to not have one, while her husband said they would like to contribute, and talked to my fiancé about a RD. So it's a bit confusing here because it seems like she, alone, doesn't want to participate.

While she and her husband are not under any obligation to financially contribute, it's seemingly odd that she has been the only one--quite truly--with a negative opinion on everything. It's very stressful because it causes anxiety for the next part of the planning process, whatever that may be. The crying and whatnot over silly things makes me walk on egg shells--that was the point.

In any event, thank you to everyone for their advice. I think the best thing for me to do is set boundaries, like some of you said, because it will allow me to have an easier time going forward--not just for the wedding but future.

MandTFebruary62011 · June 2016

It seems that another place to set boundaries will be you with your parents. THEY have decided they want to give a very generous sum of money to you and your fiance for your wedding. It is wonderful that they decided to do this and absolutely lovely that you get this opportunity. It sounds like they are putting a lot of pressure on you about expectations they have of what your fiance's family should be doing. They do not get to decide this. Just because they offered a hefty check does not mean anyone else should be expected to do so.

It sounds like you know this and it's the interpersonal back and forth that's getting in the way of the fact that you know this. While it would be good for your fiance to handle his mom in the way other posters have suggested, I think its time for you to have the heart to heart with your parents that just because they are funding does not mean anyone else should/has to/needs to/can/wants to whatever.

I would politely ask that whatever opinions they have about your future in laws not paying whatever they seem to believe should be their share, need to be kept between them. These people will be your family and your parents' opinions are placing unneeded stress on that relationship. It's fine if they want to be upset about it, but they have offered what they have offered and they need to keep their thoughts about your in laws out of conversation with you to show respect for you and your fiance.

Also, I'm sorry but the whole invitation thing is just strange. Why would you say you are knowingly allowing someone to invite more people than you are willing to pay for and expect that they will just step up to offer to pay for anyone extra who shows up? That is some backwards logic that was doomed from the get go. They honestly have no one to blame there but themselves. Don't invite anyone you aren't willing/able to host because you really never know who will show up.

Out of three parent sets in my family only my father has offered to help us at all financially with the wedding. We are incredibly grateful for any help he is offering. My mom would like to and just can't financially and I had to speak with her early on about watching what she says about the fact that my dad is helping. Her feelings on the matter are just that - her feelings. She does not get to make me feel badly about him being able to help just because she cannot. We expected nothing and are thrilled with what has been offered. We are still paying for most of the wedding ourselves and have planned accordingly not expecting anyone to step in and pay for anything part way through.

In the end, your fiance's family will be your family. It's worth considering what role your feelings about this are playing in the negativity and really taking a hard look at if they are necessary. They may be valid but sometimes it's okay to say "this is what I can expect" and find a way to be okay with that. And some of your feelings about your in laws may not be valid, then it's time to find a way to move yourself to a more understanding frame of mind.

OliveOilsMom · June 2016

Knottie34398572 said:

To clarify several points here:

I think several people went a little balls to the wall here on a situation where I have never made a single demand. The point was to illustrate that I haven't been able to plan this wedding without push back on every single part of the process. And never once did I said, "you must," "you shall," or "you will" to this woman. That needs to be made clear first and foremost.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that my own parents are bothered by the fact that his parents are not contributing. But more than that, that they didn't even say anything to my parents on the subject. So my parents were kind of like, "I guess this is falling to us?" Not everyone is able to participate in a meaningful way--regardless of what that could entail, money or otherwise--so my parents are a bit upset that nothing was ever said, because they have been left wondering and scratching their heads over what the FIL's intend to do.

With respect to other things, I mentioned that my bridal party would wear long black gowns. I never told her, "you MUST do this." Regardless, I was met with "no, I'm not doing that" immediately. And it wasn't in a particularly nice way, despite the fact that it wasn't in response to a question. And when I asked for a photo, it was also, "I would love to see a photo of the dress you were thinking of!" This was completely in context. She actually asked me to forward photos of other people's dresses, so it fell in line with that conversation. It was not an independent ask that had no context, it was directly from a conversation where SHE asked for photos of other people's dresses which, btw, I happily sent her. She also went out of her way to ask my mother for pictures of my dress, because she wanted to see it. I do not believe I was acting out of line when I made my comment because she asked to see other people's dresses and I just responded in kind. Her response was awfully misplaced, I feel, because I said it would be nice to have a photo of hers too. Her response, to me, did not make sense based on what I said.

With respect to STD, she was allotted a certain number of guests to *attend* but could invite whoever she wanted. Basically it's because my parents are more concerned with who is there because that's who they are paying for. So, my parents asked that if more than a certain number attend of those invited, they told my FIL to pay for the amount of people over who they said would attend. She told my family that of those, promised that only X amount would come, and just invited the others as a courtesy. Now, of course, no one really knows who will show up to a wedding until the rsvp's are in--we get that--but they are over the number my parents set, and have no intention to pay for the overage. My parents aren't happy because they asked for assistance in this and feel like they were taken advantage of.

For the hotel, I signed a contract that maxed out the number of rooms avail in our block, which would not cause financially liability if they didn't fill. They filled. Were I to ask for more rooms, I'd be financially responsible for those additional rooms were they not to fill. I explained this to her, and she still demanded more rooms for her friends who were a bit slow to book. She swore they would fill, and I wouldn't be in a tight spot. She asked several times, too. I stupidly obliged, thinking it would be easier than her getting upset, and asked the hotel to add more rooms. With the prior behavior and the like, I really just didn't want to deal with more crying. Months later, there are several rooms that remain available, which, if unfilled, will cost me around $2k because I signed the contract. I am crossing my fingers they fill. Was it stupid on my part? Yes. But it made me feel badly that she ignored the possibility that I'd be financially liable.

Parking in NYC isn't free, of course, but there are many garages. The hotel where she is staying does not have a lot, so she asked us to pay for her parking.

Whether or not there is a rehearsal dinner, we don't particularly care. It was that she made a unilateral decision to not have one, while her husband said they would like to contribute, and talked to my fiancé about a RD. So it's a bit confusing here because it seems like she, alone, doesn't want to participate.

While she and her husband are not under any obligation to financially contribute, it's seemingly odd that she has been the only one--quite truly--with a negative opinion on everything. It's very stressful because it causes anxiety for the next part of the planning process, whatever that may be. The crying and whatnot over silly things makes me walk on egg shells--that was the point.

In any event, thank you to everyone for their advice. I think the best thing for me to do is set boundaries, like some of you said, because it will allow me to have an easier time going forward--not just for the wedding but future.

First we can only comment on your words you write. I think most comments here were fair and not "balls to the wall".

As to your parents wishing FILs would help contribute. That is not their place to ask or to hold it against FILs for any sort of monetary contribution. Your parents decided on their own to contribute. They never should have had any expectations of FILs contributing as well and any disappointment or resentment they feel, is on them. You should try to minimize any detrimental things your parents are saying. "Mom & Dad, you have generously donated money to assist us in paying for our wedding. We are very thankful for that, but please don't hold it against FILs for not contributing. Just like you can do whatever you want with your money, they can do the same for their money."

There is going to be a whole debacle with FMILs guest list. I can probably tell you right now that if more people decide to attend the wedding than whatever the cut off is, you and your FI will be paying for those guests. Your chance to shorten the guest list is gone, since STDs went out. If you cannot foot FILs guest list bill, start praying for declines now.

I also think you will be out of luck on your hotel block. You should have stood firm with FMIL. "I'm sorry that the room block is full. If you really want to have a room block so badly, you can always make your own contract with the hotel." If I were you, I would probably try to spread by word of mouth that the hotel block has been extended, it could give your guests the chance to change their current hotel accommodations and save you money.

I also think you need to stop talking to FMIL about the wedding. If she texts you or emails you about anything. Then respond that you will check with FI and get back to her. But let FI do all the talking. Each time you have a conversation with FMIL, it sounds like you let your resentment of her increase. Stop this by having your FI handle his mom.

And for the parking, as I said before, you are having a black tie wedding, you need to figure out how to pay for parking for guests attending the wedding. Hire a valet company to park at a certain garage and prearrange with them the payment for the guests.

Lastly, if you have a rehearsal, you need to have a RD. Even if its just the people who attend the rehearsal, you must host them and their SOs for a dinner afterwards. This can be as simple as pizza or sandwiches. No rehearsal, no RD necessary.

glasgowtolondon · June 2016

Knottie34398572 said:

To clarify several points here:

I think several people went a little balls to the wall here on a situation where I have never made a single demand. The point was to illustrate that I haven't been able to plan this wedding without push back on every single part of the process. And never once did I said, "you must," "you shall," or "you will" to this woman. That needs to be made clear first and foremost.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that my own parents are bothered by the fact that his parents are not contributing. But more than that, that they didn't even say anything to my parents on the subject. So my parents were kind of like, "I guess this is falling to us?" Not everyone is able to participate in a meaningful way--regardless of what that could entail, money or otherwise--so my parents are a bit upset that nothing was ever said, because they have been left wondering and scratching their heads over what the FIL's intend to do.

With respect to other things, I mentioned that my bridal party would wear long black gowns. I never told her, "you MUST do this." Regardless, I was met with "no, I'm not doing that" immediately. And it wasn't in a particularly nice way, despite the fact that it wasn't in response to a question. And when I asked for a photo, it was also, "I would love to see a photo of the dress you were thinking of!" This was completely in context. She actually asked me to forward photos of other people's dresses, so it fell in line with that conversation. It was not an independent ask that had no context, it was directly from a conversation where SHE asked for photos of other people's dresses which, btw, I happily sent her. She also went out of her way to ask my mother for pictures of my dress, because she wanted to see it. I do not believe I was acting out of line when I made my comment because she asked to see other people's dresses and I just responded in kind. Her response was awfully misplaced, I feel, because I said it would be nice to have a photo of hers too. Her response, to me, did not make sense based on what I said.

With respect to STD, she was allotted a certain number of guests to *attend* but could invite whoever she wanted. Basically it's because my parents are more concerned with who is there because that's who they are paying for. So, my parents asked that if more than a certain number attend of those invited, they told my FIL to pay for the amount of people over who they said would attend. She told my family that of those, promised that only X amount would come, and just invited the others as a courtesy. Now, of course, no one really knows who will show up to a wedding until the rsvp's are in--we get that--but they are over the number my parents set, and have no intention to pay for the overage. My parents aren't happy because they asked for assistance in this and feel like they were taken advantage of.

For the hotel, I signed a contract that maxed out the number of rooms avail in our block, which would not cause financially liability if they didn't fill. They filled. Were I to ask for more rooms, I'd be financially responsible for those additional rooms were they not to fill. I explained this to her, and she still demanded more rooms for her friends who were a bit slow to book. She swore they would fill, and I wouldn't be in a tight spot. She asked several times, too. I stupidly obliged, thinking it would be easier than her getting upset, and asked the hotel to add more rooms. With the prior behavior and the like, I really just didn't want to deal with more crying. Months later, there are several rooms that remain available, which, if unfilled, will cost me around $2k because I signed the contract. I am crossing my fingers they fill. Was it stupid on my part? Yes. But it made me feel badly that she ignored the possibility that I'd be financially liable.

Parking in NYC isn't free, of course, but there are many garages. The hotel where she is staying does not have a lot, so she asked us to pay for her parking.

Whether or not there is a rehearsal dinner, we don't particularly care. It was that she made a unilateral decision to not have one, while her husband said they would like to contribute, and talked to my fiancé about a RD. So it's a bit confusing here because it seems like she, alone, doesn't want to participate.

While she and her husband are not under any obligation to financially contribute, it's seemingly odd that she has been the only one--quite truly--with a negative opinion on everything. It's very stressful because it causes anxiety for the next part of the planning process, whatever that may be. The crying and whatnot over silly things makes me walk on egg shells--that was the point.

In any event, thank you to everyone for their advice. I think the best thing for me to do is set boundaries, like some of you said, because it will allow me to have an easier time going forward--not just for the wedding but future.

I think you need to include a tl;dr for your posts. They are kind of epic.

The main take away for me from reading your tome is that you and your parents seem to believe that the bill for your wedding is somehow to be shared. It's great that your parents are paying for the majority but ultimately it's no ones responsibility but your own (as a couple). I also seriously question that you meant nothing at all by asking her for a pic of her dress. I'm sure you are smart enough to know that just because a person doesn't literally say the words "you must", that doesn't mean that isnt exactly what they mean. If you truly meant nothing other than what you say then I'm sure you can understand why FMIL may have gotten the wrong idea. Let it go.

FMIL might be a bit of a pill at times but from what you are saying I don't think this is all on her. Stop talking about your wedding with her, let FI deal with any situations that come up, and stop expecting that anyone else should contribute to your wedding.

banana468 · June 2016

It sounds like there are a lot of issues here and that one is feeding into the other.

Paying for your wedding is not something that anyone owes you. So if your parents are generously offering something, great! But that does not in any way entitle your parents to expect a contribution by your FI's parents.

Your FI's parents do not get to state the terms of their guest list. But you should also not begrudge them of having guests based on their level of financing. And it sounds like your FMIL is just a difficult woman. She wants to see all the dresses and does not want to share her dress which is just odd. You can't tell her what to wear and if she wants things to be a secret, let her.

I do think you need to say to your parents that they shouldn't expect anything from others because they're doing something.

And I think you and your FI need to remind one another that after the wedding you're still going to have to deal with everyone so don't treat this as an event that ends your relationships.

kimmiinthemitten · June 2016

I'm inferring from your post that FMIL isn't as financially comfortable as your parents. Have you considered paying for her parking, hotel, hair etc because perhaps your wedding is too expensive for them to afford?

She may be negative and a pain, so is mine. But at the end of the day it is important to me to have her feeling happy and beautiful when she attends her sons wedding. If that was the case, I would try and accommodate her.

aurianna · June 2016

I'm assuming you mean that your FMIL wants you to pay for parking for the hotel she's staying at rather than the reception?
Because I have to assume you have free valet for all guests at the reception.

Agree with PPs.

Your parents are in the wrong to be verbalizing any displeasure/complaints/whatever that your in-laws aren't paying for the wedding. Only you and your FI are responsible for paying for any sort of wedding and the fact that your parents are paying so much is wonderful but is totally on them. That's their decision and they have zero right for judging your in-laws for not making the same decision.
If that kind of talk comes up again, put a stop to it.

I would just start thinking about planning a RD you can afford yourselves (or skipping the rehearsal completely). If your in-laws come back to you with an offer to do it, great. But it doesn't seem promising. She seems disagreeable and I doubt your FI wants this to cause a big fight between his folks. Too much drama. Just plan your own RD and get away from the drama.

Give a couple of her song requests to the band. You don't have to give them all of them. But I don't think it hurts to throw a bone here.

Apologize for making it seem like you wanted to control her dress. Let her know you're sure whatever she picks will be lovely and drop the subject.

You're definitely in trouble with the guest list... but unfortunately that really is a problem of your own making. You should have been firm with the numbers, got the names and addresses from her, and invited the guests yourselves instead of giving her control. But that ship has sailed. So I hope it works out for you number wise.

Good luck!

climbingsingle · June 2016

The only people required to pay for your wedding are actually you and your FI. It's nice that your parents have offered to pay, but they shouldn't have offered the money expecting his parents to kick in money as well.

Your FMIL seems to be under the impression that you were trying to dictate what kind of dress she has to wear. Apologize for that.

Again, these are people that are going to be in your life for a long, long time. Don't make enemies of them over ONE DAY.

MesmrEwe · June 2016

If you can't figure out how to pay for 300 guests (though it doesn't sound like that many are on your guest list) on a $200,000 budget even in NYC - there's an issue with financial planning and budgets. Just say'n! These issues are not hills to die on.

I married into a "family of means" and the only issue we had was LFIL being worried I was going to "Make him look cheap" (made an entire office spit coffee out their nose because he'd finally met is match on the thrifty spender!) because I didn't want to be seen as taking money from my IL's... Our guest list wasn't an issue because we didn't allow it to be.. Requests from both sets of parents weren't an issue because we understood that each family had certain expectations and it wasn't worth arguing over.

Let your FMIL choose her own dress - she doesn't want to wear black - NOT a hill to die on, let her choose her attire even if she shows up in blue jeans and boots! If she doesn't want to show you ahead of time what Durango's she chose, that's o.k.

At the end of the day, she's going to be your MIL, and forever your FI's Mom, and potentially the GP to your future children should you choose to have kids. The wedding is just one day in your lives, the marriage is hopefully forever. Your FI needs to handle many of these issues, not you...

DrillSergeantCat · June 2016

Knottie34398572 said:

To clarify several points here:

I think several people went a little balls to the wall here on a situation where I have never made a single demand. The point was to illustrate that I haven't been able to plan this wedding without push back on every single part of the process. And never once did I said, "you must," "you shall," or "you will" to this woman. That needs to be made clear first and foremost.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that my own parents are bothered by the fact that his parents are not contributing. But more than that, that they didn't even say anything to my parents on the subject. So my parents were kind of like, "I guess this is falling to us?" Not everyone is able to participate in a meaningful way--regardless of what that could entail, money or otherwise--so my parents are a bit upset that nothing was ever said, because they have been left wondering and scratching their heads over what the FIL's intend to do.
Your parents offered to foot the bill. You can't start charging people to attend your wedding which is kind of what your parents want to do in a way by expecting your FILs to pay for the guests they want.

With respect to other things, I mentioned that my bridal party would wear long black gowns. I never told her, "you MUST do this." Regardless, I was met with "no, I'm not doing that" immediately. And it wasn't in a particularly nice way, despite the fact that it wasn't in response to a question. And when I asked for a photo, it was also, "I would love to see a photo of the dress you were thinking of!" This was completely in context. She actually asked me to forward photos of other people's dresses, so it fell in line with that conversation. It was not an independent ask that had no context, it was directly from a conversation where SHE asked for photos of other people's dresses which, btw, I happily sent her. She also went out of her way to ask my mother for pictures of my dress, because she wanted to see it. I do not believe I was acting out of line when I made my comment because she asked to see other people's dresses and I just responded in kind. Her response was awfully misplaced, I feel, because I said it would be nice to have a photo of hers too. Her response, to me, did not make sense based on what I said.
You actually said, "I've asked all walking down the aisle to wear a long black gown, so there is some cohesion." So you can't be upset that people think you told her what to wear.

With respect to STD, she was allotted a certain number of guests to *attend* but could invite whoever she wanted. Basically it's because my parents are more concerned with who is there because that's who they are paying for. So, my parents asked that if more than a certain number attend of those invited, they told my FIL to pay for the amount of people over who they said would attend. She told my family that of those, promised that only X amount would come, and just invited the others as a courtesy. Now, of course, no one really knows who will show up to a wedding until the rsvp's are in--we get that--but they are over the number my parents set, and have no intention to pay for the overage. My parents aren't happy because they asked for assistance in this and feel like they were taken advantage of.
You never invite people as a courtesy. If your guest list needs to top out at 200, you don't invite 250.

For the hotel, I signed a contract that maxed out the number of rooms avail in our block, which would not cause financially liability if they didn't fill. They filled. Were I to ask for more rooms, I'd be financially responsible for those additional rooms were they not to fill. I explained this to her, and she still demanded more rooms for her friends who were a bit slow to book. She swore they would fill, and I wouldn't be in a tight spot. She asked several times, too. I stupidly obliged, thinking it would be easier than her getting upset, and asked the hotel to add more rooms. With the prior behavior and the like, I really just didn't want to deal with more crying. Months later, there are several rooms that remain available, which, if unfilled, will cost me around $2k because I signed the contract. I am crossing my fingers they fill. Was it stupid on my part? Yes. But it made me feel badly that she ignored the possibility that I'd be financially liable.

Parking in NYC isn't free, of course, but there are many garages. The hotel where she is staying does not have a lot, so she asked us to pay for her parking.

Whether or not there is a rehearsal dinner, we don't particularly care. It was that she made a unilateral decision to not have one, while her husband said they would like to contribute, and talked to my fiancé about a RD. So it's a bit confusing here because it seems like she, alone, doesn't want to participate.

While she and her husband are not under any obligation to financially contribute, it's seemingly odd that she has been the only one--quite truly--with a negative opinion on everything. It's very stressful because it causes anxiety for the next part of the planning process, whatever that may be. The crying and whatnot over silly things makes me walk on egg shells--that was the point.

In any event, thank you to everyone for their advice. I think the best thing for me to do is set boundaries, like some of you said, because it will allow me to have an easier time going forward--not just for the wedding but future.

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