Wedding Woes

Dress codes are such bullshit, y'all

Seriously.  I don't mean uniforms, I mean the stupid dress codes that are in place to police girls' bodies and the way they dress.  Last night, DH and I sat down with the packing list for Space Camp, and aside from the fact that it needs to be updated (it references "Telephone Calling Cards" and "trousers"), there is so much bullshit about what girls can't wear.  Straps on tank tops have to be at least 1" wide, no dresses or skirts without shorts underneath, no two-piece swimsuits (!), if a girl wears a two-piece suit she was to wear a t-shirt over it, and all girls have to wear shorts over their swimsuits, regardless of how many pieces they are.

Anyone want to take a guess about how many rules there are for what boys wear? 

I cannot tell you how irritated I am.  There is all this bullshit about "We need more girls in STEM" yet when girls actually try to participate in something like fucking Space Camp, it's all "keep your body covered" and they're treated as if they have to somehow disappear.  (Shorts over a swimsuit, are you fucking kidding me?)  And why?  I could -maybe- see shorts under a dress/skirt if they're doing things like spinning around in the simulator or whatever, but even in that case, I would phrase it a lot more positively and gender-neutral ("wear clothes that you're comfortable being turned upside down in" or whatever the case may be). 

And FTR, those of you who I'm FB friends with know that my kid dresses pretty modestly.  She's barely 7; she wears shorts/skorts and t-shirts, or twirly dresses.  She also wears tankinis when she's swimming for fun (she has a long torso, so two pieces are easier than one, plus she correctly points out that it's so much easier to use the bathroom in a two-piece).  Her competition suit is a one-piece, and I guess I'll send that even though honestly, it's less coverage in back than a tankini.

I'm irritated with all of this policing of girls' bodies and girls' clothing and girls' appearance in general.  So sick of it.  And she just turned 7, so it's a long road ahead.  On the bright side, this came to my attention because Mr. Heff was like "Take a look at this...what do you think?"  He thought it was off, but couldn't really put his finger on it.  I told him I agreed, and to spend more time on Jezebel so he can articulate exactly why this is such bullshit. ;)  He also said that he thinks we should just send her regular clothes, and if anyone says anything he'll tell them what's what, but we also agreed that it's bullshit that she would even be subject to that sort of scrutiny. 

Why are people so fucking concerned about what girls are wearing? 
«1

Re: Dress codes are such bullshit, y'all

  • I grew up going to Christian school, and we didn't have uniforms....I wish we did though, because our dress code was so ridiculous, I mean....c'mon we don't want the boys to "stumble"

    ugh.  I mean I am all for dress codes that are out of respect for the school, or camp or whatever, but when it's blatantly because young boys apparently can't handle themselves, that pisses me off beyond everything. 



    Also, I totally LOLed at "trousers" hahaha.  On my daughter's kindergarten school supply list it says "no trapper keepers".  I mean really people? It takes 2 minutes to delete the words from 1997 that don't make sense anymore! 
  • 6fsn6fsn member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    oooohhhh that's awful.  I hate this.  I hate this for our girls.  I was all about a one piece for M2 until I spent a summer hiking up a wet suit after a potty break.

    We have the 1" strap rule in our school code, but it's for boys and girls.

    There's a mom in my group that I constantly battle because she's all about modesty in girls.  Fine, but she never wants to talk about our responsibility with our BOYS. 
  • ugh.  I mean I am all for dress codes that are out of respect for the school, or camp or whatever, but when it's blatantly because young boys apparently can't handle themselves, that pisses me off beyond everything.
    Right?  I get a safety issue.  DS's preschool and Wooz's summer camps all have rules about closed toe shoes/sandals, no Crocs/flip-flops, for safety reasons.  Totally reasonable.  Doesn't single anyone out.  Wooz attends several Y camps, which are nominally Christian (though they don't make a big deal of it), and they have zero rules for what kinds of swimsuits kids wear, how wide their tank top straps should be, etc.  And I have never gone to pick her up and thought "Wow, that kid is dressed really inappropriately."  Her camp at the children's museum?  Zero rules about kids should wear.  But somehow Space Camp thinks they need to play wardrobe police or their camp won't be able to function.

    I also told Mr. Heff that this is exactly why we don't just need girls in Space Camp (and similar places), we need them to grow up and start running them, so they can see this crap for what it is and get rid of it.  Because you know if a woman had reviewed and provided feedback on this dress code, there would have been some serious o_O going on.


  • I also told Mr. Heff that this is exactly why we don't just need girls in Space Camp (and similar places), we need them to grow up and start running them, so they can see this crap for what it is and get rid of it.  Because you know if a woman had reviewed and provided feedback on this dress code, there would have been some serious o_O going on.
    No silly, girls don't belong in space, they belong in the kitchen, fully dressed with all skin covered.  They need to save those whore two-pice bikinis for the bedroom only :wink:
  • Eff all of this. The message this sends to girls (at a very young age!) is that their comfort and choices are secondary to boys. That their bodies are up for public discussion and debate. It teaches them that their bodies are something to be ashamed of and covered up to make other (male) people feel more comfortable. It's bullshit. 

    We we know these attitudes and policing lead to body issues, confidence issues, which can have substantial effects on how girls and young women view themselves and can have lasting consequences. Screw that. 
    httpgifseccomwp-contentuploadsGIF201405Amen-brother-gifgifgsa
  • Ugh I'm mad on your behalf.

    I'm not THAT old but we (girls) had the same dress codes as kids and no one ever talked about how much horseshit it was. I never even thought about how it was horseshit. Hopefully the pushback and discussions will make this better for Wooz' kids.

    Image result for someecard betting someone half your shit youll love them forever
  • GBCKGBCK member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    argle bargle.
    THat's all I've got, because I'll join you in incoherant raging.

    Also, where the hell do these nutsos buy their kids' clothes?
    Because I can either buy things in the boy section (which Buffy sometimes objects to) or the shorts have a 1" inseam most of the time.

    Codes that say "you an wear knee length shorts" basicaly make boys' shorts OK. A lot of the time, same for the stupid width of straps, etc.  The clothes that meet those standards are boys' or are purchased at fundie-denim-frumpers-r-us (and cross-gendering that stuff gets a lot of teasing, IME)   
  • Eff this. That really pisses me off. And at Space Camp, no less!

    It sends the message to girls that "You can have a career in a STEM field, but remember ladies - your body is all people are going to look at." 

    Fuck. That. Noise.
  • Heffalump said:
    I cannot tell you how irritated I am.  There is all this bullshit about "We need more girls in STEM" yet when girls actually try to participate in something like fucking Space Camp, it's all "keep your body covered" and they're treated as if they have to somehow disappear.  (Shorts over a swimsuit, are you fucking kidding me?)  And why?  I could -maybe- see shorts under a dress/skirt if they're doing things like spinning around in the simulator or whatever, but even in that case, I would phrase it a lot more positively and gender-neutral ("wear clothes that you're comfortable being turned upside down in" or whatever the case may be). 
    Silly mom.  Pretty girls can't be in STEM unless they completely cover up all their pretty girl bits because they'll distract the boys from making the REAL breakthroughs, didn't you know? #distractinglysexy

    UGH.


    "And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they won’t just be able to take one, they’ll have to take two, one of you and one of me..."
    --Philip Pullman

  • I could rant for a long time about this.  Like, these codes have real life, horrible consequences.  The worst is anorexia, which has been strongly linked towards cultural focus on women's bodies.  It is the deadliest mental disorder, and it disproportionately affects women, and that difference has been linked to culture.  10% of people with it die. 

    Next is, in my experience, even dress codes that don't single out a particular gender aren't enforced equally.  My school had a rule that undergarments (bras and underwear) couldn't be exposed.  Bras were routinely a reason for getting in trouble.  I never once saw a guy in trouble for super baggy pants where you could see all of his boxers, even though at least once a day I'd see a guy dressed like that.  

    And, on top of all this it's so fing hard to find "modest" clothes for women, especially swimwear.  I prefer to be very covered and I have such an incredibly hard time finding clothes that cover and aren't super frumpy.  Especially since I have a small band size and a very large cup size.  I've never found a bathing suit I could afford that I'd be 100% comfortable wearing.

    Do they make the guys wear a shirt or a rashguard to swim?  If they're actually concerned about modesty, they would (I've known guys that do because of that reason).  Does this camp get any federal funding?  I think this could be a title IX violation.  And my goodness, she's seven!  There's literally no difference before puberty.  

    I'm just so sick of certain parts of a woman's torso being considered so super risque, but a guy topless is NBD.  Go all or nothing for both genders.  

    /rant

    ETA:  Can we all write letters to this camp?
    QFT!!

    To the bolded: I was thinking the same thing. 
  • I'll have to agree on the leggings thing, I really hope that trend dies out some day....I see the girls walking to our high school and those things are so skin tight, it looks like they're wearing tights and forgot to put skirts over them, specially since many of them are see thru. I realize I may not be in the majority on that opinion, but that's how I feel
  • edited July 2016
    GBCK said:
    argle bargle.
    THat's all I've got, because I'll join you in incoherant raging.

    Also, where the hell do these nutsos buy their kids' clothes?
    Because I can either buy things in the boy section (which Buffy sometimes objects to) or the shorts have a 1" inseam most of the time.

    Codes that say "you an wear knee length shorts" basicaly make boys' shorts OK. A lot of the time, same for the stupid width of straps, etc.  The clothes that meet those standards are boys' or are purchased at fundie-denim-frumpers-r-us (and cross-gendering that stuff gets a lot of teasing, IME)   
    Boys' shorts might be fine for really young girls, but once you get into puberty, they generally don't fit. (Speaking from experience as a 5'10" woman who had a J. Lo butt in sixth grade -- thanks Grandma.)
  • Ugh.  I just had a conversation with a woman who is the parent of three adult children that yes you can wear dresses to work despite our industry.  She was so relieved.

    I hate the way we teach girls that making sure we don't tempt boys is more important than their education and exposure to new learning experiences.  Why they hell aren't we sending boys home if they are allowing themselves to be distracted by shoulders and calves?
    image
  • bleve0821bleve0821 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    edited July 2016
    Ugh.  I just had a conversation with a woman who is the parent of three adult children that yes you can wear dresses to work despite our industry.  She was so relieved.

    I hate the way we teach girls that making sure we don't tempt boys is more important than their education and exposure to new learning experiences.  Why they hell aren't we sending boys home if they are allowing themselves to be distracted by shoulders and calves?
    Or those tight shirts that show off those pecs and abs... *Drool*

    Truth.  Sometimes all it takes is a pretty face, too.  But we aren't yet forcing girls to cover their faces.

    Edited because I misread the original post and then edited again because DRAFTS ARE BEING EATEN BY THE KNOT MONSTER.


    "And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they won’t just be able to take one, they’ll have to take two, one of you and one of me..."
    --Philip Pullman

  • DD is in the "Long Torso Club" - We buy tanktini's for her as well because finding a one-piece that's long enough for her is physically impossible!  Yet - the boys can go shirtless at this camp I'll bet with their swimsuits! 

    I have no problem with dress codes that are equal for both boys AND girls (i.e. shirts must have a sleeve, be blue/white/grey in color, shorts below fingertip level, etc.)..  But that list - complete and utter B as in B, S as in S!

  • MesmrEwe said:

    DD is in the "Long Torso Club" - We buy tanktini's for her as well because finding a one-piece that's long enough for her is physically impossible!  Yet - the boys can go shirtless at this camp I'll bet with their swimsuits! 

    I have no problem with dress codes that are equal for both boys AND girls (i.e. shirts must have a sleeve, be blue/white/grey in color, shorts below fingertip level, etc.)..  But that list - complete and utter B as in B, S as in S!

    I sympathize with your DD, I have an extremely long torso, I'm 5'4, my college roommate was 5'9, when we sat down next to each other, we were the same height.  I went to high school during the time when hip huggers and midrif shirts were popular, so I basically wore jeans and sweatshirts constantly.  I remember my mom was dripping me off at school once, and I reached into the back of the car to get my backpack, and because of gravity, shirt rode up and my bare back was visible, a teacher happened to be standing behind me and she said I'd have to put on something to cover up...when the heck does she think I would be in that bent over position again during the school day!?! So stupid.  I'm all for dress codes (or uniforms even, makes getting dressed easier) I just hate the reasoning behind dress codes for girls.  Dress should be modest for both boys and girls equally, you're at school, not the beach...but the fact that people shame girls for what they wear because of young boys looking at them is totally ridiculous.  

    And to reiterate my comment about the leggings, I just think it's inappropriate to wear pants to school that are so sheer that you can see underwear.  No one needs to see anyone's underwear at school...I don't think that's too ridiculous to ask really :) 

  • Also: what the hell kind of sex stuff do these weird 1990s modesty crusaders do with that extra three quarters of an inch of shoulder skin?!  Like, as much as these sorts of dress codes are creepy and gendered and make my skin crawl, at least most of the regulations are designed to conceal certain specific parts of the body.  The shoulder strap thing literally just demands that any arbitrary 1" section of the shoulders be covered.  It doesn't even make any logical sense!
    I would be more concerned about what sort of sexual predators they are employing if they can't contain themselves when seeing a 7yo in a tank top. 

    Hell, Josh Duggar was molesting his 5yo sister in "modest" prairie garb - if the person is going to prey on kids, I don't think the extra 3/4" of strap is doing anything to deter them. . 



  • Hell, Josh Duggar was molesting his 5yo sister in "modest" prairie garb - if the person is going to prey on kids, I don't think the extra 3/4" of strap is doing anything to deter them. . 

    I know this isn't "funny" but "prairie garb" made me LOL!

  • Seriously. Jana looks like a fucking pilgrim. 
  • *Barbie**Barbie* member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited July 2016
    ETA - is Baby Carrie wearing shorts under her dress, or are her pantaloons showing?!
  • @Heffalump
     - don't forget her sunbonnet! imagine the pearl-clutchiness! 
  • *Barbie* said:
    @Heffalump
     - don't forget her sunbonnet! imagine the pearl-clutchiness! 
    Nigel Farage Ukips pearl-clutcher-in-chief


    "And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they won’t just be able to take one, they’ll have to take two, one of you and one of me..."
    --Philip Pullman

This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards