Do you tell B&G it's rude...

SquirttheTurtle · September 2016

I am standing up in a wedding in a few weeks. We were just provided with a 'tentative' schedule for the day of the wedding:

8:00--hair & makeup
11:30--limo to church
2:00--Ceremony
2:30-3:30--family pictures at church
3:30-6:00--WP for pictures
6:00-- dinner

I didn't realize until I looked at my invitation last night that the WP isn't scheduled to be back at the reception venue until the dinner starts (cocktail hour is from 5-6).
From what I understand, there isn't a receiving line at church post ceremony and now, from what we were told above, the B&G are not planning on arriving at the reception until it's time to eat.

I had been involved in discussions with B, MOB and MOH about timeline for day of and needing to be where when and what had been discussed at length is not what seems to be happening.

There is a lot of time built in to the day (2 hours at church when we are not taking pictures prior) but the most glaring thing is the nearly 3 hour gap between the ceremony and reception and the B&G missing the cocktail hour.

Would you tell the bride that this is rude...or just go along with her plan?

banana468 · September 2016

What are you doing between 11:30 and 2:00? When is lunch?? What is she doing to supply you with food if you'll be at the church for 2.5 hours until the ceremony starts?

And 8AM Hair and makeup for a 2 PM ceremony? How many of you are getting hair and makeup done? And will she have breakfast?

I'd pick up the phone and talk it out. See if you can find out when your hair will be done. Ask about what's being provided for you during this gap.

Gaps are rude but at this point it's probably too late to get her to adjust the reception time. But if all of you are supposed to be together I'd ask what's going on for food for you during all of that time. Maybe it's covered but if it's not, then that should be brought to her attention. You are going to need two solid meals and snacks that get you through the day before the party starts.

PrettyGirlLost · September 2016

How close are you to this couple? I assume pretty damn close if you are in the WP.

I'd start asking some very pointed questions.

"Hey Bride, I notice that we are scheduled to arrive at the church 2 hours prior to the ceremony. . . so are you hosting a meal for us during that time? Why do we all need to be there so early? I notice there's a 3 hour time period prior to the reception that is scheduled for pictures. . . what exactly is going on during that time? Will you be providing food and drinks during that time?"

There's no way in hell I could go from 8am until 6pm without eating a meal and or a snack in between, so if the couple expects you guys to be spending 10 hours prior to the reception with them, then they need to provide you guys a full meal around lunch time and apps and drinks during that 3 hour gap.

If you bring this up to them and they resist, refuse, and get defensive, then say no more, but plan your own transportation to the church and plan on getting yourself lunch prior to the ceremony. You could also schedule hair and make up on your own, to take place at a later time then. . . having your hair and makeup done 6hrs prior to the ceremony is ridiculous and a waste of money- it's not going to stay intact.

I also would try to get out of that 3 hour gap as well.

PrettyGirlLost · September 2016

Lurkers: If you're planning your wedding and you are coming up with a timeline like this, you need to rethink some things.

Don't schedule hair and make up 4-6 hours prior to your ceremonies; If you need that much time bc of the size of your WP then hire additional stylists/MUAs or allow everyone to get all dolled up with separate stylists, then meet up prior to the ceremony.

If you want your wedding party to be with you for hours and hours prior to your ceremony starting, then you really need to provide a meal, snacks, and drinks for them. Otherwise, you need to give them the freedom to come and go as they please so that they have time to go and eat a meal on their own.

And you really need to consider allowing their SO's and dates to hang out with them during these hours and hours on end that they are doing WP stuff. . .or actually standing around doing nothing at all.

I'm seeing more and more of these 6-10 hour bridal party activity timelines prior to the ceremonies or receptions, and that's a long.ass.time to 1. be monopolizing your WP"s time and 2.expecting them to be separated from their SO's and dates, especially if they are coming from OOT.

SaintPaulGal · September 2016

The gap is hella rude. But I would be willing to bet that just "a few weeks" out it's not going to be possible to fix that. So if it were me I would let that one go.

I would bring up the question of what exactly all that extra time is being used for. I wouldn't frame it as "this is rude!" but instead just a genuine questioning. "I noticed the events seem to be spread out over a large span of time. What do you picture happening during all those hours? Can we condense that at all, because it sounds like a long day of waiting around."

There is nothing rude about missing the cocktail hour--it's pretty much there as buffer time to host the guests while the wedding couple is elsewhere.

SquirttheTurtle · September 2016

PrettyGirlLost said:

How close are you to this couple? I assume pretty damn close if you are in the WP.

It's my SIL. DH & I are both in the wedding.

PrettyGirlLost said:

You could also schedule hair and make up on your own, to take place at a later time then. . . having your hair and makeup done 6hrs prior to the ceremony is ridiculous and a waste of money- it's not going to stay intact.

I live an hour away from where the B&G live as well as where the ceremony and reception are. I am having my hair done near home and doing my own makeup (which will probably happen in the 2 hours we are at church). DH & I were told that I need to me at SIL's house at 10:45 for transportation to the church with the maids.

Snacks, lunch and beverages were brought up to her several times but as far as I know, nothing has been arranged. DH & I will be eating lunch and I will have snacks and drinks for us during pictures.

SIL has been really 'cryptic' with anything related to her wedding. It's almost as if she doesn't want anyone to know what's going on. And then when you talk to her or ask questions, she plays dumb like she really doesn't know.

kvruns · September 2016

Do you have to do the limo transportation? i'm sure it is for "bonding" and pictures or whatever but if you aren't even going to be dressed and ready to go at that point I'd see about arriving at the church closer to 1 or whatever.

SquirttheTurtle · September 2016

kvruns said:

Do you have to do the limo transportation? i'm sure it is for "bonding" and pictures or whatever but if you aren't even going to be dressed and ready to go at that point I'd see about arriving at the church closer to 1 or whatever.

But it's her 'vision' for her and all her maids to be together the whole.damn.day.

banana468 · September 2016

SquirttheTurtle said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

How close are you to this couple? I assume pretty damn close if you are in the WP.

It's my SIL. DH & I are both in the wedding.

PrettyGirlLost said:

You could also schedule hair and make up on your own, to take place at a later time then. . . having your hair and makeup done 6hrs prior to the ceremony is ridiculous and a waste of money- it's not going to stay intact.

I live an hour away from where the B&G live as well as where the ceremony and reception are. I am having my hair done near home and doing my own makeup (which will probably happen in the 2 hours we are at church). DH & I were told that I need to me at SIL's house at 10:45 for transportation to the church with the maids.

Snacks, lunch and beverages were brought up to her several times but as far as I know, nothing has been arranged. DH & I will be eating lunch and I will have snacks and drinks for us during pictures.

SIL has been really 'cryptic' with anything related to her wedding. It's almost as if she doesn't want anyone to know what's going on. And then when you talk to her or ask questions, she plays dumb like she really doesn't know.

I think you need to be matter of fact:

"So what's the plan for lunch?" If she doesn't answer then you need to say something like, "I can tell you that I'll be no good to you if I don't have some protein and water in my belly. DH and I will grab lunch and will meet you at the church. Just let me know if they have a place where I can get dressed."

And ditto for the gap, "So what are we doing between the ceremony and reception?"

If you get crickets, then say, "OK, we'll take our car and will grab a bit to eat to hold us over until 6. Just let me know where and when we need to be for photos."

This isn't a kidnapping. She can't hold you against your will. So if she doesn't have things planned then be up front with her.

Conversely, you can also offer to help arrange food for people like bringing a cold cut tray to the church and / or arranging for snacks between the ceremony and reception. You don't HAVE to but it could be a nice gesture if she's the type to act frazzled and not figuring things out vs. just thinking everyone should do stuff for her.

madamerwin · September 2016

Alright, if this is your SIL and she and your H are close, I vote that your H has a come-to-Jesus talk with her. He should let her know that if she expects people to spend 10 hours with them BEFORE THE RECEPTION, they need to provide all food and drinks during that time. She also needs to realize that expecting the BP to take photos for 3 hours during the gap is unreasonable, and that there is no need to make the BP arrive at the church 2 hours early, especially if photos aren't happening before the ceremony. At this point, since it's likely too late to change the timeline, there's no real point in making a huge deal out of the gap itself, but I would have H push back on the time before the ceremony, and what's happening during the gap itself.

banana468 · September 2016

SquirttheTurtle said:

kvruns said:

Do you have to do the limo transportation? i'm sure it is for "bonding" and pictures or whatever but if you aren't even going to be dressed and ready to go at that point I'd see about arriving at the church closer to 1 or whatever.

But it's her 'vision' for her and all her maids to be together the whole.damn.day.

Again, then you get to say, "I appreciate that you want to do this but I can tell you now that I'll be no good to if I start to get hangry. I can help arrange food but if that's not something you want to do then I'll meet you at the church."

She can't have it both ways. For starters she can't require you do anything. But secondarily, she can't ask you to give up your day to be with her and then not do anything to host you during that time.

And if this is your SIL, could you ask your MIL? Say that you'll help w/ food or anything so that all of the lovely bridesmaids will look beautiful in photos because no one wants to view photos of her friends years later that look like wilted flowers.

PrettyGirlLost · September 2016

kvruns said:

Do you have to do the limo transportation? i'm sure it is for "bonding" and pictures or whatever but if you aren't even going to be dressed and ready to go at that point I'd see about arriving at the church closer to 1 or whatever.

This.

If your SIL and her FI aren't planning on feeding you guys, and there's no logical reason for any of you to be dressed and at the ceremony site several hours prior to the ceremony, I'd make my own travel and eating arrangements and show up closer to 2pm.

You don't need to make an announcement about what you're doing, as that will likely throw the bride into a tizzy. I wouldn't say anything to her unless she brings it up, and I wouldn't say anything until the day before or day of ><

banana468 · September 2016

PrettyGirlLost said:

kvruns said:

Do you have to do the limo transportation? i'm sure it is for "bonding" and pictures or whatever but if you aren't even going to be dressed and ready to go at that point I'd see about arriving at the church closer to 1 or whatever.

This.

If your SIL and her FI aren't planning on feeding you guys, and there's no logical reason for any of you to be dressed and at the ceremony site several hours prior to the ceremony, I'd make my own travel and eating arrangements and show up closer to 2pm.

You don't need to make an announcement about what you're doing, as that will likely throw the bride into a tizzy. I wouldn't say anything to her unless she brings it up, and I wouldn't say anything until the day before or day of ><

I'd take the approach of telling her what I'm doing if it's different - then she's not in a flip out mode on the day of.

And if that's an issue, you can deal with it as a family one. She IS family so I'd be rather quick to call out my DH's siblings when I think they're being asshats and it directly affects me.

PrettyGirlLost · September 2016

SquirttheTurtle said:

kvruns said:

Do you have to do the limo transportation? i'm sure it is for "bonding" and pictures or whatever but if you aren't even going to be dressed and ready to go at that point I'd see about arriving at the church closer to 1 or whatever.

But it's her 'vision' for her and all her maids to be together the whole.damn.day.

Her "Vision" doesn't keep you from saying "No."

No, no, nope, no. Practice saying it in the mirror.

Use the phrasing Banana has suggested.

In the past I have refused to be involved in a similar, 20 million hours long pre ceremony and reception WP brouhaha, and the Bride survived her wedding day, even seemed to enjoy it, and her marriage was still valid ;-)

SquirttheTurtle · September 2016

I'd make my own travel and eating arrangements and show up closer to 2pm.

You don't need to make an announcement about what you're doing, as that will likely throw the bride into a tizzy. I wouldn't say anything to her unless she brings it up, and I wouldn't say anything until the day before or day of ><

This is pretty much what DH and I have discussed. Not only because of the timeline logistics, but also because there wasn't a reasonable way for DH to 'drop his car off' at the reception venue and get to church so that we would be able to ride the party bus for pictures (she basically told us that it was our responsibility to get our car to the venue and get DH to church).

banana468 · September 2016

SquirttheTurtle said:

I'd make my own travel and eating arrangements and show up closer to 2pm.

You don't need to make an announcement about what you're doing, as that will likely throw the bride into a tizzy. I wouldn't say anything to her unless she brings it up, and I wouldn't say anything until the day before or day of ><

This is pretty much what DH and I have discussed. Not only because of the timeline logistics, but also because there wasn't a reasonable way for DH to 'drop his car off' at the reception venue and get to church so that we would be able to ride the party bus for pictures (she basically told us that it was our responsibility to get our car to the venue and get DH to church).

I can see that honestly. We arranged for transportation for the WP and basically said that we didn't care how they got home but we weren't arranging transportation from the reception. They all arranged it well in advance.

But with a request for you to take over is also a consequence that she doesn't get what she wants.

bubblylove · September 2016

Looking at it the schedule wasn't all that different from mine with some key caveats.

Hair at the salon with the maids and moms was at 9. We then went to my condo for makeup (not everyone got it done professionally). That went through lunch and I provided awesome sandwiches, fruit and other sides. A few girls split off to run to Target for hose, stuff like that.

We got to the church at 2 for pictures - we did all our pics before. No limo. Everyone figured their own way there.

Wedding at 4. Then straight to reception starting at 5.

STARMOON44 · September 2016

I wouldn't say anything. She can't change the gap now. If there's no plan for when you get there Id just order or leave to go get some.

southernbelle0915 · September 2016

I wouldn't approach this in a "you're breaking etiquette" way. I would approach it in a "here's what works for me, so I'll see you at the church/at SIL's house/at the salon/etc."

I would not be confrontational about the fact that she's breaking wedding etiquette rules. But you certainly can stand up for yourself and your own needs.

Heffalump · September 2016

I agree with PP, and just wanted to state the obvious (well, obvious to everyone but the bride): that is an insanely long day. I predict you'll have Stockholm syndrome by the first dance.

madamerwin · September 2016

southernbelle0915 said:

I wouldn't approach this in a "you're breaking etiquette" way. I would approach it in a "here's what works for me, so I'll see you at the church/at SIL's house/at the salon/etc."

I would not be confrontational about the fact that she's breaking wedding etiquette rules. But you certainly can stand up for yourself and your own needs.

This. I wouldn't necessarily bring etiquette into it, but I also wouldn't go along with these plans without letting the B&G know that an all-day affair doesn't work for me. I'd just let her know I'll be to the church by 1pm, with hair and makeup done. I'd also have arrange my own transportation for the entire day, so once pictures are finished during the gap (assuming they don't take 3 hours, which they absolutely shouldn't), I could go to the cocktail hour and/or just not be waiting around with the BP.

SquirttheTurtle · September 2016

Thank you all...you've given me some good ideas on how to approach this and be tactful. First time I've had to deal with a bride requesting so much time and neglecting some basic human needs (food and drink) for such a long period of time. We are planning on talking with MIL to see if she can offer insight before we bring anything up to SIL.

PrettyGirlLost · September 2016

SquirttheTurtle said:

Thank you all...you've given me some good ideas on how to approach this and be tactful. First time I've had to deal with a bride requesting so much time and neglecting some basic human needs (food and drink) for such a long period of time. We are planning on talking with MIL to see if she can offer insight before we bring anything up to SIL.

Don't involve other ppl, you guys are all adults.

Just make your own travel and eating arrangements, and be as polite as possible but firm when you tell your SIL, in essence, "Sorry but this doesn't work for me, I'll meet you at thus and such time at the church and then at thus and such time at the reception. Can't wait to see you get married!"

MesmrEwe · October 2016

Point out the Logistics of the Limo! How are you getting home/to your vehicle after the reception? Where are you suppose to secure your belongings/changes of clothes during the ceremony? Do you have a safe place to even park your vehicle during the event (many churches won't even allow you to leave your vehicles in their lot to come back later in the evening) - are you starting the limo part of the day at the reception site? Really - this isn't high school prom, you're adults!

I honestly read this as "Typical Catholic Wedding" timeline (not knot approved) The only thing you can point out are the logistical nightmares (getting back to your vehicles at the end of the night, how are they arranging for gifts to be hauled out of the reception venue, lunch, flex time, etc.) to her without coming across as you aren't wanting to be there whether that's reality or perception. Also, I'm guessing the bride is new to weddings and this stuff never crossed her mind because outside of here, this isn't the typical thing covered in marriage prep!

ILoveBeachMusic · October 2016

banana468 said:

SquirttheTurtle said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

How close are you to this couple? I assume pretty damn close if you are in the WP.

It's my SIL. DH & I are both in the wedding.

PrettyGirlLost said:

You could also schedule hair and make up on your own, to take place at a later time then. . . having your hair and makeup done 6hrs prior to the ceremony is ridiculous and a waste of money- it's not going to stay intact.

I live an hour away from where the B&G live as well as where the ceremony and reception are. I am having my hair done near home and doing my own makeup (which will probably happen in the 2 hours we are at church). DH & I were told that I need to me at SIL's house at 10:45 for transportation to the church with the maids.

Snacks, lunch and beverages were brought up to her several times but as far as I know, nothing has been arranged. DH & I will be eating lunch and I will have snacks and drinks for us during pictures.

SIL has been really 'cryptic' with anything related to her wedding. It's almost as if she doesn't want anyone to know what's going on. And then when you talk to her or ask questions, she plays dumb like she really doesn't know.

I think you need to be matter of fact:

"So what's the plan for lunch?" If she doesn't answer then you need to say something like, "I can tell you that I'll be no good to you if I don't have some protein and water in my belly. DH and I will grab lunch and will meet you at the church. Just let me know if they have a place where I can get dressed."

And ditto for the gap, "So what are we doing between the ceremony and reception?"

If you get crickets, then say, "OK, we'll take our car and will grab a bit to eat to hold us over until 6. Just let me know where and when we need to be for photos."

This isn't a kidnapping. She can't hold you against your will. So if she doesn't have things planned then be up front with her.

Conversely, you can also offer to help arrange food for people like bringing a cold cut tray to the church and / or arranging for snacks between the ceremony and reception. You don't HAVE to but it could be a nice gesture if she's the type to act frazzled and not figuring things out vs. just thinking everyone should do stuff for her.

yeah, I would clarify about food and what is going on during the gap. However, I do want to point out that the cocktail hour was traditionally a time for pictures so the bride and groom not being there isn't necessarily rude. If they are doing pictures during the other time, I don't understand why they wouldn't be at the cocktail hour. Also, if you aren't doing pictures why can't you just attend the cocktail hour? I would do what @banana468 says but tell them you will just be at the cocktail party.

SquirttheTurtle · October 2016

So most of this turned out to be a non issue since the timeline changed 4 more times, and the bridal party stepped up to make sure everyone had something to eat and drink during pictures.

However....

What was more upsetting was how they treated their attendants; there was no thank you's and lackluster appreciation if anyone did anything to help the day before or the day of.

And in all my life, I have never seen a bride and groom try so hard to avoid interacting with their guests. There was no receiving line, no welcome, no table visits. The entire bridal party was sequestered during the cocktail hour into a basement room...meanwhile the B&G went to take more pictures. After our grand entrance and dinner the bride and groom did not interact with anyone outside of the people sitting immediately to the left or right of them. As soon as they were finished eating dinner, they left the ballroom and only came back in to do their dances. With the exception of one bridesmaid and groomsmen, the entire bridal party left at 10pm.

It was all very disheartening how they choose to do everything. I understand it's their wedding, but I feel like basic common courtesy was completely forgotten...and I feel sorry for their guests.

OliveOilsMom · October 2016

Thanks for coming back to update us! It may be time to take a step back and re-evaluate your friendship. I don't think I could stay close friends with people who couldn't even say a thank you out loud for all that you say the WP did.

I also attended a wedding where there was basically no interaction from the B&G and the guests. I can only say that my wedding was after theirs and my parents said that I must do table visits (we were planning to already) because my extended family was apparently pissed that B&G did not visit the tables. So things get remembered and I'm sure it will be reflected in the future for this couple.

banana468 · October 2016

I also feel like your MIL and FIL then should have said something if they were involved in this at all.

If they didn't interact with their guests then I think it speaks volumes about the kind of people they are - and who won't arrange for taking care of their attendants.

I know that as a DIL you can only speak so poorly of someone's child, but if I were your DH that would be a time that I'd be quick to either talk directly to my sibling or at least my parents about the ugly taste left in my mouth.

mollybarker11 · October 2016

Ohh boy that sounds like a bonkers day. I'm curious to know more details.

- Did they still expect the WP to be dressed & ready to hang out at the church for hours before the ceremony? If so did they provide a lunch?
- Did the photo shoot between ceremony & reception take several hours because you were shuttled around to various scenic locales?
- Did they provide snacks when they dropped you off in the holding room before leaving for couple's pics?
- Where did they go / what were they doing after dinner & before the dances?!

This sounds very similar to my cousin's wedding. I don't recall being thanked for coming and they sat with their arms crossed refusing to dance with anyone who asked. Sure looked like they had fun on the party bus with their friends tho!

SquirttheTurtle · October 2016

mollybarker11 said:

Ohh boy that sounds like a bonkers day. I'm curious to know more details.

- Did they still expect the WP to be dressed & ready to hang out at the church for hours before the ceremony? If so did they provide a lunch?
We had lunch but the bride didn't arrange it...the GM got their own before getting to church and one of the BM brought lunch to eat at church.
- Did the photo shoot between ceremony & reception take several hours because you were shuttled around to various scenic locales?
Yes.
- Did they provide snacks when they dropped you off in the holding room before leaving for couple's pics?
The venue brought food down for us and someone got us some drinks (DH & I escaped to the cocktail hour and then FIL released the rest of the BP to go upstairs and enjoy themselves)
- Where did they go / what were they doing after dinner & before the dances?!
Bathroom?...more pictures?...they were nowhere to be found.

This sounds very similar to my cousin's wedding. I don't recall being thanked for coming and they sat with their arms crossed refusing to dance with anyone who asked. Sure looked like they had fun on the party bus with their friends tho!

banana468 said:

I also feel like your MIL and FIL then should have said something if they were involved in this at all.

If they didn't interact with their guests then I think it speaks volumes about the kind of people they are - and who won't arrange for taking care of their attendants.

I know that as a DIL you can only speak so poorly of someone's child, but if I were your DH that would be a time that I'd be quick to either talk directly to my sibling or at least my parents about the ugly taste left in my mouth.

FIL, the DJ, and the photog asked when they were going to do table visits...radio silence. DH and I talked to FIL after dinner and he was really upset with them for not doing it, but short of him taking their hands and walking them to each table, he was lost as what to do. At that point I just had to keep my mouth shut and do what I could to save face with our family; DH and I did rounds to our family tables.

One of the other bridesmaid asked me what we did for our attendant gifts (DH and I got married earlier this year)...she felt like our gifts and thank you's were complete after thoughts, generic and cheap.

OliveOilsMom said:

Thanks for coming back to update us! It may be time to take a step back and re-evaluate your friendship. I don't think I could stay close friends with people who couldn't even say a thank you out loud for all that you say the WP did.
I also attended a wedding where there was basically no interaction from the B&G and the guests. I can only say that my wedding was after theirs and my parents said that I must do table visits (we were planning to already) because my extended family was apparently pissed that B&G did not visit the tables. So things get remembered and I'm sure it will be reflected in the future for this couple.

There was a lot of hurt feelings in regards to the BP. Lots of time and money were spend by the attendants to be apart of their wedding and it felt as if we were just there to fill space/photo props. This being my SIL, DH & I had a lot of long talks since the wedding (and other events leading up to) on their behavior; MIL & FIL tried to have more than one 'come to Jesus' talk with her and BIL about etiquette, and DH talked to SIL at one point about being considerate of other people...apparently, neither of these conversations were taken seriously.

PrettyGirlLost · October 2016

What's the over/under on whether this couple will actually send out Thank You notes?

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