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Is this pretentious?

GlamQueenBrideGlamQueenBride member
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in Wedding Etiquette Forum
Most of my family is made up of doctors. I am not and neither is my fi nor our friends. For escort cards, would it be pretentious to label the relatives who are physicians as doctor when that's more than half our guest list? As in Dr. Jane Doe or should we just stick with Jane Doe?
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Re: Is this pretentious?

  • GlamQueenBrideGlamQueenBride member
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    Yeah that's the plan, to use all of those. The thing is the majority of the guest list is family so they're all doctors. I just am afraid it'll look pretentious as opposed to just doing first and last name and no titles at all.

    What do most people do?
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  • GlamQueenBrideGlamQueenBride member
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    Okay. Thanks ladies. Glad I can always turn here for advice.
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    No one else will notice or care. 
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  • ernursejernursej member
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    I would get rid of the titles. In my circle (which has a ton of Drs too) no one likes to use their titles. I didn't bother on my invites or seating charts. It may be a know your crowd.

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  • SP29SP29 member
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    edited November 2016
    We used titles on our invitations, but first and last only on the escort cards.
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  • CasadenaCasadena member
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    I just used first/last names on our escort cards
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  • MandyMostMandyMost member
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    PrettyGirlLost said:
    OurWildKingdom said:
    If you use honorifics, you should use them for everyone. Mr., Ms., Mrs., etc., for those without professional titles; Dr., Rev., etc., for those who use their professional titles.
    This ^

    Be sure to use Dr. for any PhDs if you are going to be using professional titles for physicians and other folks. 

    Some here will tell you that according to etiquette you don't have to do this, as in the past only physicians went by Dr. socially, but this is outdated and short sighted, imo.  Your friends and family members who have a PhD worked damn hard for that title, and if you're using honorifics for everyone else, you should use theirs as well.
    We had a formal feel to our wedding, so we used titles/honorifics on the escort cards. There was one friend, who has a PhD, that I really wanted to use "Dr." for, because I knew he's love it, and so I ended up using "Dr." for everyone with a PhD or an MD. It wasn't many guests (maybe 5 out of 165 people), but I don't think that matters. 
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 
    http://rs1353.pbsrc.com/albums/q665/llllllllllllLoki/tumblr_mvwu24Ma9j1qjiauvo3_250_zps62b8ad58.gif~c200









    Can you tell me why it's not pretentious and totes socially acceptable for physicians to use their title, then?

    It's not.

    There's no valid, logical reason.  It's just that for some obscure reason, likely having to do with social hierarchy, it became accepted to refer to MDs socially as Dr.

    And before we jump down the sabre rattling rabbit hole of "Well what about MBAs or MFAs or. . . ," we're talking about honorofic titles, which are typically associated with terminal degrees.   There are no titles associated with MBAs or MFAs.

    Well, I guess Boss could apply to a person with an MBA.  I support the title of Boss on an escort card! :-P

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • ILoveBeachMusicILoveBeachMusic member
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    Yes, @STARMOON44, that is the rule but I've never understood it. My husband has a Ph.D as does my FDIL. They spent a lot of time and energy earning that terminal degree so why can't they use it. FWIW, we did not use the title on DD's wedding invite - used Mr. and Mrs. BeachMusic. However, for the RD SIL's mother insisted on using Dr. and Mrs. BeachMusic! I was a bit surprised.
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    PrettyGirlLost said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    PrettyGirlLost said:
    It's also the rule that formal invitations be addressed as such:

    Mr. and Mrs. His FirstName His LastName

    But quite a number of ladies on these boards shit a brick when they receive mail like that. 

    It's not their preference and we always advise people to address others as they wish to be addressed.

    Most ppl I know that have PhDs wish to be addressed by their title in formal situations, and would be very offended and pissed at the host if the physicians were floating around with Dr on their escort cards and they were addressed as Mr or Mrs.
    If someone has specifically asked you to use Dr sure, but that person is being a pretentious and entitled special snowflake. 
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  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    That's factually incorrect. The title has been used for non-medical degree holders since the 12th and 13th centuries. In professional settings they are referred to as doctor, so why wouldn't you address correspondence to them in that way? 

    How people are addressed socially or casually varies from person to person, and there isn't no rule that only medical doctors go by doctor socially. Historically many PhD holders who work in universities to be Professor, but IME this also varies significantly based on norms in the field rather than some crazy rule you're making up. 

    What about dentists? Or Physical Therapists? They hold doctorates, but practice specialties that are not typically called medical doctors; would you not address formal correspondence using their titles?
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    edited November 2016
    charlotte989875 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    That's factually incorrect. The title has been used for non-medical degree holders since the 12th and 13th centuries. In professional settings they are referred to as doctor, so why wouldn't you address correspondence to them in that way? 

    How people are addressed socially or casually varies from person to person, and there isn't no rule that only medical doctors go by doctor socially. Historically many PhD holders who work in universities to be Professor, but IME this also varies significantly based on norms in the field rather than some crazy rule you're making up. 

    What about dentists? Or Physical Therapists? They hold doctorates, but practice specialties that are not typically called medical doctors; would you not address formal correspondence using their titles?
    Socially. I specified further up thread I was talking socially. It's not factually incorrect you just don't like it. 
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  • ILoveBeachMusicILoveBeachMusic member
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    charlotte989875 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    That's factually incorrect. The title has been used for non-medical degree holders since the 12th and 13th centuries. In professional settings they are referred to as doctor, so why wouldn't you address correspondence to them in that way? 

    How people are addressed socially or casually varies from person to person, and there isn't no rule that only medical doctors go by doctor socially. Historically many PhD holders who work in universities to be Professor, but IME this also varies significantly based on norms in the field rather than some crazy rule you're making up. 

    What about dentists? Or Physical Therapists? They hold doctorates, but practice specialties that are not typically called medical doctors; would you not address formal correspondence using their titles?
    In @starmoon's defense, the Crane's etiquette guide does have that as a rule. I just question the why of the rule. I don't agree that a person who wants to be called Dr. is a speshul snowflake! I would definitely address a dentist by Dr., not sure about PTs. Since that is a very new development I hadn't thought of it - the programs have changed in the last several years. The same can be said for pharmacists.
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  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    STARMOON44 said:
    PrettyGirlLost said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    But historically the use of titles wasn't never to find out "who would be helpful in a crisis (side note where the hell are you even getting this garbage from), they were to designate holders of certain degrees, PhD. Since these degrees began to be widely conferred people were always given that title. 

    We dont refer to medicial doctors socially socially as doctor because of the minute chance there is a medical emergency; we refer to them that way out of respect for the degree they have earned and the value we have put on their profession in society. It's about respect. Now if you don't want to respect PhD holders in the same way as medical doctors that's your choice, but really there is nothing supporting your conclusion we only refer to medical doctors socially as doctor because we need to know who can help in an emergency. If that was the case why don't we address nurses by their title? Or EMTs? That would have the same utility as doctor under your logic. 
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    ILoveBeachMusic said:
    charlotte989875 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    That's factually incorrect. The title has been used for non-medical degree holders since the 12th and 13th centuries. In professional settings they are referred to as doctor, so why wouldn't you address correspondence to them in that way? 

    How people are addressed socially or casually varies from person to person, and there isn't no rule that only medical doctors go by doctor socially. Historically many PhD holders who work in universities to be Professor, but IME this also varies significantly based on norms in the field rather than some crazy rule you're making up. 

    What about dentists? Or Physical Therapists? They hold doctorates, but practice specialties that are not typically called medical doctors; would you not address formal correspondence using their titles?
    In @starmoon's defense, the Crane's etiquette guide does have that as a rule. I just question the why of the rule. I don't agree that a person who wants to be called Dr. is a speshul snowflake! I would definitely address a dentist by Dr., not sure about PTs. Since that is a very new development I hadn't thought of it - the programs have changed in the last several years. The same can be said for pharmacists.
    Thanks. I was starting to feel cray. If people just think it is an outdated rule that should change, I get that. But pretending like it has never been a thing just isn't true. 

    Personally i I would call a dentist Dr but not a pharmacist or physical therapist. And I feel strongly that no one working in a hospital should be calling themselves a doctor unless they are a medical doctor. It's misleading to patients who don't have the knowledge or capacity to figure out all the differences. 
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    edited November 2016
    charlotte989875 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    PrettyGirlLost said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    But historically the use of titles wasn't never to find out "who would be helpful in a crisis (side note where the hell are you even getting this garbage from), they were to designate holders of certain degrees, PhD. Since these degrees began to be widely conferred people were always given that title. 

    We dont refer to medicial doctors socially socially as doctor because of the minute chance there is a medical emergency; we refer to them that way out of respect for the degree they have earned and the value we have put on their profession in society. It's about respect. Now if you don't want to respect PhD holders in the same way as medical doctors that's your choice, but really there is nothing supporting your conclusion we only refer to medical doctors socially as doctor because we need to know who can help in an emergency. If that was the case why don't we address nurses by their title? Or EMTs? That would have the same utility as doctor under your logic. 
    Wow. "Where the hell am I even getting this garbage from?" Why are you being so rude? It's the etiquette board. I pointed out a standard rule. 

    This is isn't a Supreme Court case. I don't have some magical perfectly logical explanation. I'm not interested in proving this is correct. It's what I've been taught and it is a rule. And I'd appreciate it if you stopped the personal attacking. It's unnecessary and wildly out of proportion to my comments. 
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    STARMOON44 said:
    PrettyGirlLost said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    KahluaKoala said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    My sarcasm wasn't meant to be hostile, just sarcastic.  I didn't read your sarcasm as hostile either, by the way.

    I agree with you that if you introduce yourself socially at a dinner party as Dr, whether you have a PhD or an MD, that's pretentious.  And on the rare occasion a medical emergency occurs at a dinner party, I'd much rather know who in the crowd is an EMT and not who is an ENT.

    But we're talking about using professional and honorific titles by a host on escort cards for a formal reception, so I don't think it's any more pretentious to refer to the PhDs as Dr on their cards as it is to refer to the MDs.

    STARMOON44 said:
    PrettyGirlLost said:
    It's also the rule that formal invitations be addressed as such:

    Mr. and Mrs. His FirstName His LastName

    But quite a number of ladies on these boards shit a brick when they receive mail like that. 

    It's not their preference and we always advise people to address others as they wish to be addressed.

    Most ppl I know that have PhDs wish to be addressed by their title in formal situations, and would be very offended and pissed at the host if the physicians were floating around with Dr on their escort cards and they were addressed as Mr or Mrs.
    If someone has specifically asked you to use Dr sure, but that person is being a pretentious and entitled special snowflake. 

    If Uncle Jimmy the Otolaryngologist asked you to refer to him on his formal invitation to your wedding and escort card at your reception as Dr, would he be pretentious and an entitled special snowflake?

    It's not about anyone asking you to refer to them in a certain way, it's about being respectful of titles if you as the host are choosing to use them.  If you are going to use titles, then you should use titles equally- Dr. (PhD and MD), Reverend, The Honorable, etc.- for all guests or not at all.  Double standards are garbage.





    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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