Wedding Etiquette Forum

Is this pretentious?

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Re: Is this pretentious?

  • I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    My sarcasm wasn't meant to be hostile, just sarcastic.  I didn't read your sarcasm as hostile either, by the way.

    I agree with you that if you introduce yourself socially at a dinner party as Dr, whether you have a PhD or an MD, that's pretentious.  And on the rare occasion a medical emergency occurs at a dinner party, I'd much rather know who in the crowd is an EMT and not who is an ENT.

    But we're talking about using professional and honorific titles by a host on escort cards for a formal reception, so I don't think it's any more pretentious to refer to the PhDs as Dr on their cards as it is to refer to the MDs.

    It's also the rule that formal invitations be addressed as such:

    Mr. and Mrs. His FirstName His LastName

    But quite a number of ladies on these boards shit a brick when they receive mail like that. 

    It's not their preference and we always advise people to address others as they wish to be addressed.

    Most ppl I know that have PhDs wish to be addressed by their title in formal situations, and would be very offended and pissed at the host if the physicians were floating around with Dr on their escort cards and they were addressed as Mr or Mrs.
    If someone has specifically asked you to use Dr sure, but that person is being a pretentious and entitled special snowflake. 

    If Uncle Jimmy the Otolaryngologist asked you to refer to him on his formal invitation to your wedding and escort card at your reception as Dr, would he be pretentious and an entitled special snowflake?

    It's not about anyone asking you to refer to them in a certain way, it's about being respectful of titles if you as the host are choosing to use them.  If you are going to use titles, then you should use titles equally- Dr. (PhD and MD), Reverend, The Honorable, etc.- for all guests or not at all.  Double standards are garbage.




    He wouldn't need to ask, since he's a real doctor!
  • I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    But historically the use of titles wasn't never to find out "who would be helpful in a crisis (side note where the hell are you even getting this garbage from), they were to designate holders of certain degrees, PhD. Since these degrees began to be widely conferred people were always given that title. 

    We dont refer to medicial doctors socially socially as doctor because of the minute chance there is a medical emergency; we refer to them that way out of respect for the degree they have earned and the value we have put on their profession in society. It's about respect. Now if you don't want to respect PhD holders in the same way as medical doctors that's your choice, but really there is nothing supporting your conclusion we only refer to medical doctors socially as doctor because we need to know who can help in an emergency. If that was the case why don't we address nurses by their title? Or EMTs? That would have the same utility as doctor under your logic. 
    Wow. "Where the hell am I even getting this garbage from?" Why are you being so rude? It's the etiquette board. I pointed out a standard rule. 

    This is isn't a Supreme Court case. I don't have some magical perfectly logical explanation. I'm not interested in proving this is correct. It's what I've been taught and it is a rule. And I'd appreciate it if you stopped the personal attacking. It's unnecessary and wildly out of proportion to my comments. 
    Wait, you're saying people with PhDs who use their title are pretentious and show offs, but me pointing out that your logic is flawed and not based in history is a personal attack? Okay, sure. 



    Also, historically PhDs signed correspondence as First Last, PhD, lawyers First last, Esq, medical degree holders First Last, MD (or DD) and most still do. 

    All im trying to say is your "rule" definitely isn't a rule in many (most?) parts of the country/world and definitely not in all circles. Therefore your conclusion that people using Doctor for PhDs is Norbert just factually incorrect but insulting to people who hold those degrees. 

    Now most of the PhDs I know don't insist on being called doctor in casual or social settings, but do in their workplace or formal correspondence. 

    Here's a summary orb the history of the title, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title). Also, Emily Post also says to address PhDs as doctors in correspondence. 


  • I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    My sarcasm wasn't meant to be hostile, just sarcastic.  I didn't read your sarcasm as hostile either, by the way.

    I agree with you that if you introduce yourself socially at a dinner party as Dr, whether you have a PhD or an MD, that's pretentious.  And on the rare occasion a medical emergency occurs at a dinner party, I'd much rather know who in the crowd is an EMT and not who is an ENT.

    But we're talking about using professional and honorific titles by a host on escort cards for a formal reception, so I don't think it's any more pretentious to refer to the PhDs as Dr on their cards as it is to refer to the MDs.

    It's also the rule that formal invitations be addressed as such:

    Mr. and Mrs. His FirstName His LastName

    But quite a number of ladies on these boards shit a brick when they receive mail like that. 

    It's not their preference and we always advise people to address others as they wish to be addressed.

    Most ppl I know that have PhDs wish to be addressed by their title in formal situations, and would be very offended and pissed at the host if the physicians were floating around with Dr on their escort cards and they were addressed as Mr or Mrs.
    If someone has specifically asked you to use Dr sure, but that person is being a pretentious and entitled special snowflake. 

    If Uncle Jimmy the Otolaryngologist asked you to refer to him on his formal invitation to your wedding and escort card at your reception as Dr, would he be pretentious and an entitled special snowflake?

    It's not about anyone asking you to refer to them in a certain way, it's about being respectful of titles if you as the host are choosing to use them.  If you are going to use titles, then you should use titles equally- Dr. (PhD and MD), Reverend, The Honorable, etc.- for all guests or not at all.  Double standards are garbage.




    He wouldn't need to ask, since he's a real doctor!
    I sure hope you're being ironic or sarcastic ><



    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    My sarcasm wasn't meant to be hostile, just sarcastic.  I didn't read your sarcasm as hostile either, by the way.

    I agree with you that if you introduce yourself socially at a dinner party as Dr, whether you have a PhD or an MD, that's pretentious.  And on the rare occasion a medical emergency occurs at a dinner party, I'd much rather know who in the crowd is an EMT and not who is an ENT.

    But we're talking about using professional and honorific titles by a host on escort cards for a formal reception, so I don't think it's any more pretentious to refer to the PhDs as Dr on their cards as it is to refer to the MDs.

    It's also the rule that formal invitations be addressed as such:

    Mr. and Mrs. His FirstName His LastName

    But quite a number of ladies on these boards shit a brick when they receive mail like that. 

    It's not their preference and we always advise people to address others as they wish to be addressed.

    Most ppl I know that have PhDs wish to be addressed by their title in formal situations, and would be very offended and pissed at the host if the physicians were floating around with Dr on their escort cards and they were addressed as Mr or Mrs.
    If someone has specifically asked you to use Dr sure, but that person is being a pretentious and entitled special snowflake. 

    If Uncle Jimmy the Otolaryngologist asked you to refer to him on his formal invitation to your wedding and escort card at your reception as Dr, would he be pretentious and an entitled special snowflake?

    It's not about anyone asking you to refer to them in a certain way, it's about being respectful of titles if you as the host are choosing to use them.  If you are going to use titles, then you should use titles equally- Dr. (PhD and MD), Reverend, The Honorable, etc.- for all guests or not at all.  Double standards are garbage.




    All of this. 
  • I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    My sarcasm wasn't meant to be hostile, just sarcastic.  I didn't read your sarcasm as hostile either, by the way.

    I agree with you that if you introduce yourself socially at a dinner party as Dr, whether you have a PhD or an MD, that's pretentious.  And on the rare occasion a medical emergency occurs at a dinner party, I'd much rather know who in the crowd is an EMT and not who is an ENT.

    But we're talking about using professional and honorific titles by a host on escort cards for a formal reception, so I don't think it's any more pretentious to refer to the PhDs as Dr on their cards as it is to refer to the MDs.

    It's also the rule that formal invitations be addressed as such:

    Mr. and Mrs. His FirstName His LastName

    But quite a number of ladies on these boards shit a brick when they receive mail like that. 

    It's not their preference and we always advise people to address others as they wish to be addressed.

    Most ppl I know that have PhDs wish to be addressed by their title in formal situations, and would be very offended and pissed at the host if the physicians were floating around with Dr on their escort cards and they were addressed as Mr or Mrs.
    If someone has specifically asked you to use Dr sure, but that person is being a pretentious and entitled special snowflake. 

    If Uncle Jimmy the Otolaryngologist asked you to refer to him on his formal invitation to your wedding and escort card at your reception as Dr, would he be pretentious and an entitled special snowflake?

    It's not about anyone asking you to refer to them in a certain way, it's about being respectful of titles if you as the host are choosing to use them.  If you are going to use titles, then you should use titles equally- Dr. (PhD and MD), Reverend, The Honorable, etc.- for all guests or not at all.  Double standards are garbage.




    He wouldn't need to ask, since he's a real doctor!
    Are you serious with this?
  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
    First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited November 2016
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    My sarcasm wasn't meant to be hostile, just sarcastic.  I didn't read your sarcasm as hostile either, by the way.

    I agree with you that if you introduce yourself socially at a dinner party as Dr, whether you have a PhD or an MD, that's pretentious.  And on the rare occasion a medical emergency occurs at a dinner party, I'd much rather know who in the crowd is an EMT and not who is an ENT.

    But we're talking about using professional and honorific titles by a host on escort cards for a formal reception, so I don't think it's any more pretentious to refer to the PhDs as Dr on their cards as it is to refer to the MDs.

    It's also the rule that formal invitations be addressed as such:

    Mr. and Mrs. His FirstName His LastName

    But quite a number of ladies on these boards shit a brick when they receive mail like that. 

    It's not their preference and we always advise people to address others as they wish to be addressed.

    Most ppl I know that have PhDs wish to be addressed by their title in formal situations, and would be very offended and pissed at the host if the physicians were floating around with Dr on their escort cards and they were addressed as Mr or Mrs.
    If someone has specifically asked you to use Dr sure, but that person is being a pretentious and entitled special snowflake. 

    If Uncle Jimmy the Otolaryngologist asked you to refer to him on his formal invitation to your wedding and escort card at your reception as Dr, would he be pretentious and an entitled special snowflake?

    It's not about anyone asking you to refer to them in a certain way, it's about being respectful of titles if you as the host are choosing to use them.  If you are going to use titles, then you should use titles equally- Dr. (PhD and MD), Reverend, The Honorable, etc.- for all guests or not at all.  Double standards are garbage.




    He wouldn't need to ask, since he's a real doctor!
    I sure hope you're being ironic or sarcastic ><


    Not even a little bit!

    (ETA yes sarcastic. . PhD's are real doctors)
  • edited November 2016
    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    That's factually incorrect. The title has been used for non-medical degree holders since the 12th and 13th centuries. In professional settings they are referred to as doctor, so why wouldn't you address correspondence to them in that way? 

    How people are addressed socially or casually varies from person to person, and there isn't no rule that only medical doctors go by doctor socially. Historically many PhD holders who work in universities to be Professor, but IME this also varies significantly based on norms in the field rather than some crazy rule you're making up. 

    What about dentists? Or Physical Therapists? They hold doctorates, but practice specialties that are not typically called medical doctors; would you not address formal correspondence using their titles?
    In @starmoon's defense, the Crane's etiquette guide does have that as a rule. I just question the why of the rule. I don't agree that a person who wants to be called Dr. is a speshul snowflake! I would definitely address a dentist by Dr., not sure about PTs. Since that is a very new development I hadn't thought of it - the programs have changed in the last several years. The same can be said for pharmacists.
    I know what the etiquette guides say- and there's no logical reason for their "rule." That's my point and why I think the convention itself is just a ridiculous form of, as I call it, dick wagging.  "I'm an MD so I'm a REAL doctor!"

    Not saying you guys condone or think like that, just saying that is what this "rule" communicates.

    PTs are dPTs and Pharmacists are PharmDs; They have doctorate degrees in the same vein as a molecular biologist or chemist has a doctorate and is a PhD.

    I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    That's factually incorrect. The title has been used for non-medical degree holders since the 12th and 13th centuries. In professional settings they are referred to as doctor, so why wouldn't you address correspondence to them in that way? 

    How people are addressed socially or casually varies from person to person, and there isn't no rule that only medical doctors go by doctor socially. Historically many PhD holders who work in universities to be Professor, but IME this also varies significantly based on norms in the field rather than some crazy rule you're making up. 

    What about dentists? Or Physical Therapists? They hold doctorates, but practice specialties that are not typically called medical doctors; would you not address formal correspondence using their titles?
    In @starmoon's defense, the Crane's etiquette guide does have that as a rule. I just question the why of the rule. I don't agree that a person who wants to be called Dr. is a speshul snowflake! I would definitely address a dentist by Dr., not sure about PTs. Since that is a very new development I hadn't thought of it - the programs have changed in the last several years. The same can be said for pharmacists.
    Thanks. I was starting to feel cray. If people just think it is an outdated rule that should change, I get that. But pretending like it has never been a thing just isn't true. 

    Personally i I would call a dentist Dr but not a pharmacist or physical therapist. And I feel strongly that no one working in a hospital should be calling themselves a doctor unless they are a medical doctor. It's misleading to patients who don't have the knowledge or capacity to figure out all the differences. 
      Absolutely this.

    But historically the use of titles wasn't never to find out "who would be helpful in a crisis (side note where the hell are you even getting this garbage from), they were to designate holders of certain degrees, PhD. Since these degrees began to be widely conferred people were always given that title. 

    We dont refer to medicial doctors socially socially as doctor because of the minute chance there is a medical emergency; we refer to them that way out of respect for the degree they have earned and the value we have put on their profession in society. It's about respect. Now if you don't want to respect PhD holders in the same way as medical doctors that's your choice, but really there is nothing supporting your conclusion we only refer to medical doctors socially as doctor because we need to know who can help in an emergency. If that was the case why don't we address nurses by their title? Or EMTs? That would have the same utility as doctor under your logic. 
    Wow. "Where the hell am I even getting this garbage from?" Why are you being so rude? It's the etiquette board. I pointed out a standard rule. 

    This is isn't a Supreme Court case. I don't have some magical perfectly logical explanation. I'm not interested in proving this is correct. It's what I've been taught and it is a rule. And I'd appreciate it if you stopped the personal attacking. It's unnecessary and wildly out of proportion to my comments. 

    I'm missing something because I don't see any personal attacks in this comment or any other. . .

    ETA- We need our sarcasm font and color ><  Seems like we can no longer change the color of text now, or is it just me?


    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • DH has his Ph.D, and works on a medical campus. His Ph.D friends don't go by "doctor" around work so no one confuses them with a medical doctor. Same reason my SIL with the DNP doesn't go by "doctor" at work, even though she has a form of doctoral degree as well. They only use their title socially, and I cannot think of a context or a good reason why that'd be pretentious. They earned it.
    I work in a core lab in a hospital as part of a university hospital system.  My director has a PhD and goes by Dr, even around the clinicians.  All the researchers around here go by Dr, and all of the MDs go by Dr, and the MD PhDs go by Dr Dr. 

    Everyone is a damn Doctor!

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • DH has his Ph.D, and works on a medical campus. His Ph.D friends don't go by "doctor" around work so no one confuses them with a medical doctor. Same reason my SIL with the DNP doesn't go by "doctor" at work, even though she has a form of doctoral degree as well. They only use their title socially, and I cannot think of a context or a good reason why that'd be pretentious. They earned it.
    I work in a core lab in a hospital as part of a university hospital system.  My director has a PhD and goes by Dr, even around the clinicians.  All the researchers around here go by Dr, and all of the MDs go by Dr, and the MD PhDs go by Dr Dr. 

    Everyone is a damn Doctor!

    But do people find it pretentious?  o:)

  • So LSS:

    1. I think Dr. should be used in formal correspondence for anyone who has earned a doctorate, regardless of field.  So if you're using titles on cards, use Dr.  (Also, I don't see why this might be perceived as pretentious.)

    2. In a professional but non-employee/employer relationship, I go with Dr. until I'm told otherwise.  For employee/employer, I defer to the norm in that field (and with that specific person), since it varies widely.

    3. Socially, I don't really use Dr., and if someone at a cocktail party insisted on being called Dr. Smith instead of Kelly, I would think she was full of herself. 

    4. I have an MBA, and personally, I think people who use First, Last, MBA are pretentious.  If someone does it, it's no skin off my nose, but it's not a choice I would make.  If you have a decent amount of common sense, average math skills, and money to burn, you can get an MBA in a couple of years.  People work hard at it, to be sure, but it's not rocket surgery. 

    But if there is ever an emergency on a plane where someone needs to know the IRR of a project, stat, and they call out "Is there an MBA in the house?" I'm ready!

    I can't like this post enough. I'm in academia and totally agree.

    As a fun fact, a colleague of mine (who has a PhD) at one point did start to major in rocket science. It's a common joke that if something "isn't rocket science" we need to get that guy on the phone to help.  
    ________________________________


  • I think the only pretentious thing in this thread is using Dr. for people with PhD's. 

    This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on this forum. If someone has a doctorate and titles are being used you should absolutely use their correct title which is "Doctor". Not all doctors are medical doctors. 
    The rule has always been that Doctor is only used socially by medical doctors. I didn't just make it up myself!
    And why is that?  What is the rationale?  Where did this rule originate?

    It was also a rule that single women never addressed a man without an introduction and never walked out in public without an escort, and now look how far we've come!  We can even vote now!!!
    Oh really? We can? Gosh shucks I had no idea!!

    Pointless hostile sarcasm aside, I was always taught that it is pretentious to point out academic titles socially, like announcing to the world how smart you are, similar to how lawyers never refer to themselves as "Esquire" and wouldn't expect that title in social correspondence. It's show-offy to point out. "Dr" for a medical doctor at least serves some purpose in letting us all know who might be useful in a crisis. 

    if the concern is not looking pretentious, call academic doctors "Dr" would seem to me an odd way to resolve it. 
    But historically the use of titles wasn't never to find out "who would be helpful in a crisis (side note where the hell are you even getting this garbage from), they were to designate holders of certain degrees, PhD. Since these degrees began to be widely conferred people were always given that title. 

    We dont refer to medicial doctors socially socially as doctor because of the minute chance there is a medical emergency; we refer to them that way out of respect for the degree they have earned and the value we have put on their profession in society. It's about respect. Now if you don't want to respect PhD holders in the same way as medical doctors that's your choice, but really there is nothing supporting your conclusion we only refer to medical doctors socially as doctor because we need to know who can help in an emergency. If that was the case why don't we address nurses by their title? Or EMTs? That would have the same utility as doctor under your logic. 
    Wow. "Where the hell am I even getting this garbage from?" Why are you being so rude? It's the etiquette board. I pointed out a standard rule. 

    This is isn't a Supreme Court case. I don't have some magical perfectly logical explanation. I'm not interested in proving this is correct. It's what I've been taught and it is a rule. And I'd appreciate it if you stopped the personal attacking. It's unnecessary and wildly out of proportion to my comments. 
    Wait, you're saying people with PhDs who use their title are pretentious and show offs, but me pointing out that your logic is flawed and not based in history is a personal attack? Okay, sure. 



    Also, historically PhDs signed correspondence as First Last, PhD, lawyers First last, Esq, medical degree holders First Last, MD (or DD) and most still do. 

    All im trying to say is your "rule" definitely isn't a rule in many (most?) parts of the country/world and definitely not in all circles. Therefore your conclusion that people using Doctor for PhDs is Norbert just factually incorrect but insulting to people who hold those degrees. 

    Now most of the PhDs I know don't insist on being called doctor in casual or social settings, but do in their workplace or formal correspondence. 

    Here's a summary orb the history of the title, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title). Also, Emily Post also says to address PhDs as doctors in correspondence. 


    FWIW, that's not exactly true for lawyers. It's proper form to address a lawyer as Bob Loblaw, Esq. in professional correspondence, but it's generally considered poor form to call oneself Bob Loblaw, Esq. Sure, some lawyers do it, but in the legal community it's generally viewed in the same way as someone who adds MBA or MS behind their name. Perhaps not improper per se, but definitely douchey. 

    I don't have an opinion on PhDs as Dr. I know it's not traditional, but I'm a much bigger fan of addressing people how they want to be addressed than adhering to tradition for tradition's sake in titles. 
  • The only time it is pretentious to address someone with a doctorate as "Doctor" is when the degree is honorary.
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