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Is my wedding going to be a PPD?

KeyToHisHeart2017KeyToHisHeart2017 member
5 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper First Comment
in Chit Chat
My Fiance and I are getting married on June 24, 2017. We have been engaged and planning the wedding since May 2015. I graduated nursing school and started working in January 2016, I was able to add my Fiance to my insurance (according to their requirements he qualified as a spouse since we have lived together more than 12 months).  I asked them about adding my fiancé's 2 daughters and they said I could add them also. I did not end up adding them the first year but added them on when open enrollment came around in November. I received a letter from the insurance company requesting verification documentation for the girls. the required documents are their birth certificates (not a problem to get) plus 2 spouse verification documents. These documents are a mortgage statement with both of our names from the last 6 months (no problem, we bought a house together in March 2016) and either a government-issued marriage license or a notarized affidavit of common law marriage. We don't have our marriage license for 6 months when we get married so they said we would need to fill out the affidavit of common law marriage to be able to add the girls to my insurance. In the state of Texas, common law marriage is treated as any other type of marriage. So this means we will be married when we have our wedding in June. Does this mean our wedding is a PPD?
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Re: Is my wedding going to be a PPD?

  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    I also say no. There's a difference (in my mind anyway) between marriage (and taking vows, signing these papers) and a common law marriage (which I believe does not involve vows). I agree with @OliveOilsMom above that these are two different things. 

    I also hate the term PPD. 
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  • thefanciestbecklerthefanciestbeckler member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    I agree with the other ladies. Common law and legal marriage are different in my mind.

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  • DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    Def not a PPD. You didn't go get married at the courthouse some time ago just to have a "real" wedding at a later date.
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  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    STARMOON44 said:
    Yeah I think it would be. You are declaring to the government that you ARE married. In TX, you will be 100% as married as after the courthouse ceremony, would need to get a divorce to end your marriage, and don't need a ceremony at all. To me, this is exactly the same as having a more conventional marriage for health insurance purposes. 

    I don't really think it's a big deal though. 
    If the law allows people in common law marriages to file a marriage license after filing the affadavit, then isn't it safe to assume the law sees a difference even if it allows for shared benefits?
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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    Could you marry someone else without getting divorced first?

    Common law means different things in different places. In my state, common law was the same as any other legal marriage until it was abolished in the 90's. In that circumstance, I would say you're already married. 
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  • MairePoppyMairePoppy mod
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    I don't see why this would be different from any couple who gets married at city hall to qualify for benefits. 
                       
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  • lovesclimbinglovesclimbing member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    MyNameIsNot said:
    Could you marry someone else without getting divorced first?

    Common law means different things in different places. In my state, common law was the same as any other legal marriage until it was abolished in the 90's. In that circumstance, I would say you're already married. 
    This is where I am. OP, after you complete this notarized common law affidavit, can you get a marriage license for the wedding in June? Could you get a marriage license and marry someone else (without doing any other paperwork/divorce in between)? If yes, then I'd say no, it's not a PPD. But if you can't without getting divorced first, then yes, it would be a PPD. 

    It sounds to me like your situation is the latter (unable to get a marriage license after the affidavit without divorcing) because you say common law is the same in Texas as a legal marriage before an officiant. 

    Also, you say you can use a license as one of the documents. Do you actually mean a marriage license or do you really mean a marriage certificate? Because, at least in my state, anyone can get a marriage license pretty easily (assuming they aren't currently married). The license is simply the paperwork you receive after filling out an application at the state DHSS. The license is then signed by the officiant and witnesses and sometimes the B&G as well after the wedding ceremony is conducted. The license is then returned to DHSS. The certificate is what you receive after the completed license is filed with the state following the ceremony.

    In my state, the license is good for a month or three or something like that and if you don't use it, nothing happens. You can apply for another later with no problems. If Texas is similar, and you actually mean license, you could get a license and use it as proof and then let it expire and get a new one in June for the actual ceremony. (The reason I ask if you actually mean license is because I frequently mix up license and certificate. I'm always talking about needing the license for something or taking the license somewhere when I actually mean certificate. I would find it odd if the company accepted a license as proof of marriage because it's not.)
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  • SP29SP29 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    I think it's different, but I can see how the view varies based on where you live.

    In Canada, common-law is a pretty "simple" thing. It does vary slightly between province, but when two people co-habitat for a period of 6 months- 1 year you are common-law. You can also be common-law with someone while still legally married (but separated) to someone else.

    It's also pretty easy to get your significant other onto your work benefits or car insurance. You can also file taxes together (as common law). My previous job REQUIRED the employee to opt for family benefits vs. single benefits if you were living with someone, even if you don't want to do that.

    But you can end a common-law relationship just as easily. You wouldn't need a "divorce" to get re-married. You could get a marriage license with anyone else.

    To me, your wedding day is the day you say your vows to your partner. Signing an affidavit does not require vows- you are proving to a lawyer that you live together with this man and you assist in providing monetarily for his daughters.


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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
    First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    SP29 said:
    I think it's different, but I can see how the view varies based on where you live.

    In Canada, common-law is a pretty "simple" thing. It does vary slightly between province, but when two people co-habitat for a period of 6 months- 1 year you are common-law. You can also be common-law with someone while still legally married (but separated) to someone else.

    It's also pretty easy to get your significant other onto your work benefits or car insurance. You can also file taxes together (as common law). My previous job REQUIRED the employee to opt for family benefits vs. single benefits if you were living with someone, even if you don't want to do that.

    But you can end a common-law relationship just as easily. You wouldn't need a "divorce" to get re-married. You could get a marriage license with anyone else.

    To me, your wedding day is the day you say your vows to your partner. Signing an affidavit does not require vows- you are proving to a lawyer that you live together with this man and you assist in providing monetarily for his daughters.


    Except that's not what you are affirming. You are saying that you consider yourself married. 
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  • ahoyweddingahoywedding member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    Agree that maybe it's different from marching into the courthouse and actually having a ceremony, but double check with where you live. I have a friend who lived with a BF somewhere that common law marriage was a pretty big deal. They signed the papers for her insurance so he could get on that and I think figured meh we're not actually married, just saying we live together. They broke up and after she moved out of the country she found out they actually had to file for a dissolution of their common law marriage. It was a HUGE mess.

    So if all you're filling out is paperwork saying yep we live together, we consider ourselves a family....maybe it wont' be a PPD. If whatever you're signing would require you to file MORE paperwork or take legal action to dissolve, you might be kind of close.
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  • southernbelle0915southernbelle0915 mod
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    You're getting married, whether common law or not, in order to receive insurance benefits. I don't see how having another (unnecessary) ceremony and party later is not a PPD.

    I'm with STAR and Marie here. To be common law married in Texas, you have to file a "Declaration of Marriage" form with the county clerk and you are, congratulations, officially married. Or you file a marriage license with the county clerk and you are, congratulations, officially married. You're officially married either way. 
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  • lovesclimbinglovesclimbing member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    SP29 said:
    I think it's different, but I can see how the view varies based on where you live.

    In Canada, common-law is a pretty "simple" thing. It does vary slightly between province, but when two people co-habitat for a period of 6 months- 1 year you are common-law. You can also be common-law with someone while still legally married (but separated) to someone else.

    It's also pretty easy to get your significant other onto your work benefits or car insurance. You can also file taxes together (as common law). My previous job REQUIRED the employee to opt for family benefits vs. single benefits if you were living with someone, even if you don't want to do that.

    But you can end a common-law relationship just as easily. You wouldn't need a "divorce" to get re-married. You could get a marriage license with anyone else.

    To me, your wedding day is the day you say your vows to your partner. Signing an affidavit does not require vows- you are proving to a lawyer that you live together with this man and you assist in providing monetarily for his daughters.


    But, this isn't the same thing, I don't think. The OP says in Texas, common law is no different than "regular," which makes it sound as if she would have to get a divorce. The OP needs to come back and clarify. 

    I agree, in Canada, it probably wouldn't be a PPD since you don't have to get a divorce. But we don't know that in this scenario. 
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  • ahoyweddingahoywedding member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    southernbelle0915 said:
    You're getting married, whether common law or not, in order to receive insurance benefits. I don't see how having another (unnecessary) ceremony and party later is not a PPD.

    I'm with STAR and Marie here. To be common law married in Texas, you have to file a "Declaration of Marriage" form with the county clerk and you are, congratulations, officially married. Or you file a marriage license with the county clerk and you are, congratulations, officially married. You're officially married either way. 
    Ok yeah, that makes it sound like it would be a PPD. I've worked for companies where you only had to show both names on the housing agreement (mortgage or lease) and maybe a shared bank account. If THAT were the case I'd say nope it's not a PPD, that's just your employer being nice. But filing a legal form (called declaration of marriage!) seems to me like THAT would be the actual day you're getting married.
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  • southernbelle0915southernbelle0915 mod
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    ahoywedding said:
    southernbelle0915 said:
    You're getting married, whether common law or not, in order to receive insurance benefits. I don't see how having another (unnecessary) ceremony and party later is not a PPD.

    I'm with STAR and Marie here. To be common law married in Texas, you have to file a "Declaration of Marriage" form with the county clerk and you are, congratulations, officially married. Or you file a marriage license with the county clerk and you are, congratulations, officially married. You're officially married either way. 
    Ok yeah, that makes it sound like it would be a PPD. I've worked for companies where you only had to show both names on the housing agreement (mortgage or lease) and maybe a shared bank account. If THAT were the case I'd say nope it's not a PPD, that's just your employer being nice. But filing a legal form (called declaration of marriage!) seems to me like THAT would be the actual day you're getting married.
    Totally. And there are definitely employers who recognize "domestic partnership" and extend them benefits. 

    It sounds to me like OP's HR person is telling her "yea the kids can be on" and the insurance company (from which the company has purchased coverage) is telling her "yea the kids can be on, IF you're officially married". OP needs to clarify with her company what's what. If she needs to be officially married, then, sorry sweetie, she needs to make the choice on whether a "wedding" or insurance coverage for her FI's kids is more important. I don't see this as different from any other poster who has a speshul situation and wants validation that it's ok.
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  • emmaaaemmaaa mod
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    MairePoppy said:
    I don't see why this would be different from any couple who gets married at city hall to qualify for benefits. 
    This.

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  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    southernbelle0915 said:
    ahoywedding said:
    Agree that maybe it's different from marching into the courthouse and actually having a ceremony, but double check with where you live. I have a friend who lived with a BF somewhere that common law marriage was a pretty big deal. They signed the papers for her insurance so he could get on that and I think figured meh we're not actually married, just saying we live together. They broke up and after she moved out of the country she found out they actually had to file for a dissolution of their common law marriage. It was a HUGE mess.

    So if all you're filling out is paperwork saying yep we live together, we consider ourselves a family....maybe it wont' be a PPD. If whatever you're signing would require you to file MORE paperwork or take legal action to dissolve, you might be kind of close.
    A really good point! In Texas, if you're common law married and you want to end the marriage, you have to officially get divorced.

    So yea, it's an official marriage, which she is entering into in order to get insurance benefits. Which is why I don't really understand people's position that an unnecessary "wedding" later on isn't a PPD.
    I was curious because I didn't know much about Common Law and it looks like in Texas in order to sign the affidavit of informal marriage you must 1) live together 2) agree to be married) and 3) present yourself publicly as husband and wife.  With all of that info, I have to say yes, in TX this would be a PPD situation.  One of the links I read said that your affidavit can be overturned if you are "secretly married."
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  • banana468banana468 member
    First Answer First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    Am I the only one that feels like what  the employer is saying doesn't agree with the insurance company?   If the benefits extend to an unmarried partner then she shouldn't need this.

    Before any of this is done, I'd talk to HR.   Find out what is or isn't covered and then ask HR to help out.   If the benefits are offered based on your CURRENT status then you shouldn't need to seek a change to that status.

    As others have said, if you "get the paperwork" and ultimately it means that you won't need a marriage license in a few months then I think your answer is that it would be a PPD.  

    But in the meantime, I'd push back on your employer to figure out what's going on.
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  • DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    After reading more comments, I've changed my mind. I also looked into common law marriage in TX and that form does say you claim you're married. So, I guess your "wedding" would be a PPD. 
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  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its

    I've found this debate interesting.  One thing I'm torn on is a TX common-law marriage (I'm guessing) wouldn't be recognized in other states.  So does that make a difference in the PPD question?  I think it does for me.  But then, I'm also harkened back to the evil of same sex marriages being okay in some states, but not others, before the SCOTUS decision.  While not an issue in this case, it does go back to the core question of is a marriage that is legal in one state, but not others, make a difference.

    And I'm a little bothered that, at least for me personally, the answer is "it depends".  For same sex, pre-SCOTUS marriage days, it's a resounding "of course it's a marriage and wth some states don't recognize that."  But for the OP's situation, I say it does make a difference and her ceremony/reception would not be a PPD.  Because, if they ever moved out of TX, their common-law forms would be meaningless and they'd HAVE to "re" get married.

    Again, I'm guessing.  Maybe whatever TX form they fill out makes it a legal marriage in all the states.  I can only say that many states, including the one I'm living in, do not have common-law marriages.  Believe you me.  I tried getting on my H's insurance (before we were married) about 5 years ago when I got laid off.  Never mind we'd been living together for 10 years.  That was a fat NO.  Quite frankly, its refreshing to see an insurance company that allows it under certain circumstances. 

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  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    short+sassy said:

    I've found this debate interesting.  One thing I'm torn on is a TX common-law marriage (I'm guessing) wouldn't be recognized in other states.  So does that make a difference in the PPD question?  I think it does for me.  But then, I'm also harkened back to the evil of same sex marriages being okay in some states, but not others, before the SCOTUS decision.  While not an issue in this case, it does go back to the core question of is a marriage that is legal in one state, but not others, make a difference.

    And I'm a little bothered that, at least for me personally, the answer is "it depends".  For same sex, pre-SCOTUS marriage days, it's a resounding "of course it's a marriage and wth some states don't recognize that."  But for the OP's situation, I say it does make a difference and her ceremony/reception would not be a PPD.  Because, if they ever moved out of TX, their common-law forms would be meaningless and they'd HAVE to "re" get married.

    Again, I'm guessing.  Maybe whatever TX form they fill out makes it a legal marriage in all the states.  I can only say that many states, including the one I'm living in, do not have common-law marriages.  Believe you me.  I tried getting on my H's insurance (before we were married) about 5 years ago when I got laid off.  Never mind we'd been living together for 10 years.  That was a fat NO.  Quite frankly, its refreshing to see an insurance company that allows it under certain circumstances. 

    From what I read when I was looking into this, if your state recognizes your common law (or informal marriage as they call it in Texas) marriage then you are considered married in all 50 states.  It holds the same weight legally as a ceremony; it's just a different means to the same end.
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  • cowgirl8238cowgirl8238 member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer

    I can see both sides of this situation but I have to agree with @Mairepoppy and Star that if this "paperwork" makes you married and if you are doing it for the benefits it puts you into the PPD category. 

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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    kimmiinthemitten said:
    short+sassy said:

    I've found this debate interesting.  One thing I'm torn on is a TX common-law marriage (I'm guessing) wouldn't be recognized in other states.  So does that make a difference in the PPD question?  I think it does for me.  But then, I'm also harkened back to the evil of same sex marriages being okay in some states, but not others, before the SCOTUS decision.  While not an issue in this case, it does go back to the core question of is a marriage that is legal in one state, but not others, make a difference.

    And I'm a little bothered that, at least for me personally, the answer is "it depends".  For same sex, pre-SCOTUS marriage days, it's a resounding "of course it's a marriage and wth some states don't recognize that."  But for the OP's situation, I say it does make a difference and her ceremony/reception would not be a PPD.  Because, if they ever moved out of TX, their common-law forms would be meaningless and they'd HAVE to "re" get married.

    Again, I'm guessing.  Maybe whatever TX form they fill out makes it a legal marriage in all the states.  I can only say that many states, including the one I'm living in, do not have common-law marriages.  Believe you me.  I tried getting on my H's insurance (before we were married) about 5 years ago when I got laid off.  Never mind we'd been living together for 10 years.  That was a fat NO.  Quite frankly, its refreshing to see an insurance company that allows it under certain circumstances. 

    From what I read when I was looking into this, if your state recognizes your common law (or informal marriage as they call it in Texas) marriage then you are considered married in all 50 states.  It holds the same weight legally as a ceremony; it's just a different means to the same end.
    This. Even though your state doesn't recognize common law, it still has to recognize marriages performed in other states under full faith and credit. If Texas recognizes an affidavit of marriage as a method of marriage, Oklahoma still has to accept your Texas marriage when you move. It would be the same if my state didn't recognize marriages performed by people ordained online, but I had a DW to a state that did, or if I moved to a state that required witnesses to sign the marriage license after being married in a no-witness state.

    The more I think about it, the more I think this has in common with abbreviated courthouse ceremonies that skip the vows and frills. Legally married is legally married. 
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  • southernbelle0915southernbelle0915 mod
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    short+sassy said:

    I've found this debate interesting.  One thing I'm torn on is a TX common-law marriage (I'm guessing) wouldn't be recognized in other states.  So does that make a difference in the PPD question?  I think it does for me.  But then, I'm also harkened back to the evil of same sex marriages being okay in some states, but not others, before the SCOTUS decision.  While not an issue in this case, it does go back to the core question of is a marriage that is legal in one state, but not others, make a difference.

    And I'm a little bothered that, at least for me personally, the answer is "it depends".  For same sex, pre-SCOTUS marriage days, it's a resounding "of course it's a marriage and wth some states don't recognize that."  But for the OP's situation, I say it does make a difference and her ceremony/reception would not be a PPD.  Because, if they ever moved out of TX, their common-law forms would be meaningless and they'd HAVE to "re" get married.

    Again, I'm guessing.  Maybe whatever TX form they fill out makes it a legal marriage in all the states.  I can only say that many states, including the one I'm living in, do not have common-law marriages.  Believe you me.  I tried getting on my H's insurance (before we were married) about 5 years ago when I got laid off.  Never mind we'd been living together for 10 years.  That was a fat NO.  Quite frankly, its refreshing to see an insurance company that allows it under certain circumstances. 

    It doesn't for me.

    OP has the option of both a common law marriage and a marriage license, so I don't think it's comparable to the same sex marriage issue. Actually I think it's worse...she's trying to differentiate between the two so that she can have her cake (insurance for her fiance's kids) and eat it too (a "real wedding" this summer). 

    Doesn't get more speshul than this IMHO.
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  • SP29SP29 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    Interesting to actual read the Tx requirements. In that case, yes, I do think this would make a future wedding a PPD. From what it sounds like, you'd be going to your lawyer to get married.
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  • KeyToHisHeart2017KeyToHisHeart2017 member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper First Comment

    Sorry to post and run.

    Hoping to answer all questions or clear things up. I called the insurance company back and did a little more research on this.

    The form we will be filling out is called an 'Affidavit of Common Law Marriage" The form is sent from the insurance company and we have to fill it out and sign it in the presence of a Notary Public (our bank provides this, so we will actually never have to go to the courthouse or a lawyer for any of this). The form is then sent back to the insurance company but is never filed through the State of Texas.

    I called the County Clerk's Office and the woman informed me that so long as the form is not filed through the State of Texas it is not considered a legal marriage and we will have no issues getting our marriage license in June. Also, should we decide not to follow through with our marriage we will NOT be required to file for a divorce before we can marry another person.

    I don't want to have my cake and eat it too. I don't want our wedding to be a PPD. If this is considered a PPD we will wait until after the wedding to add them on. The girls have insurance with their Mother so it won't be an issue to not add them on just yet.

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