Couple Sues Wedding Vendors for $150k..

mrsconn23 · January 2018

So I watched Black Mirror's "Black Museum" episode last night (ep 6 of most recent season). Please go watch it and then come back and tell me about how you want to test anything on humans, especially prisoners.

PS I also watched Arkangel and Hang the DJ. Those along with Black Museum are so good (and thought-provoking...as Black Mirror is, always).

southernbelle0915 · January 2018

Also, @MissKittyDanger - I was listening to NPR on the way to work today and thought of you. There was a StoryCorps segment on a guy who was wrongfully convicted and spent 39 years in prison. I wanted to share it with you in hopes you'd listen and recognize that the prison population is filled with underserved people - innocent and guity - who don't deserve to be guinea pigs.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/05/575603052/he-went-to-prison-for-a-murder-he-didnt-commit-then-met-the-man-who-put-him-ther

short+sassy · January 2018

southernbelle0915 said:

@LondonLisa - that's terrible! But so are 99% of their products anyway. Their chocolate is really gross. I mean, if you're going to eat chocolate, eat good chocolate. I googled a boycott list and the only thing I'm guilty of buying is cherrios.

Wow! I am also just appalled reading that. Thanks for that info, @LondonLisa. I am so moved, I will now join you in the boycott.

I'll research what typical products are Nestle, but I don't think I use many of them anyway. Like @southernbelle0915 pointed out, they tend to be awful and poor quality anyway.

I used to have an outside sales job selling "whole house" water filtration systems. Part of my demonstration was showing how tap water has all kinds of invisible solids in it but, the same water put through my "mini" piece of equipment removed them all. I'd also talk about that, while many bottled waters are of a good quality, there are no standards at all. And I'd offer to test the customer's bottled water. Nestle bottled water was the WORST. It's filled with invisible solids. Granted, that was 10 years ago, perhaps they've changed. But I doubt it.

southernbelle0915 · January 2018

short+sassy said:

southernbelle0915 said:

@LondonLisa - that's terrible! But so are 99% of their products anyway. Their chocolate is really gross. I mean, if you're going to eat chocolate, eat good chocolate. I googled a boycott list and the only thing I'm guilty of buying is cherrios.

Wow! I am also just appalled reading that. Thanks for that info, @LondonLisa. I am so moved, I will now join you in the boycott.
I'll research what typical products are Nestle, but I don't think I use many of them anyway. Like @southernbelle0915 pointed out, they tend to be awful and poor quality anyway.
I used to have an outside sales job selling "whole house" water filtration systems. Part of my demonstration was showing how tap water has all kinds of invisible solids in it but, the same water put through my "mini" piece of equipment removed them all. I'd also talk about that, while many bottled waters are of a good quality, there are no standards at all. And I'd offer to test the customer's bottled water. Nestle bottled water was the WORST. It's filled with invisible solids. Granted, that was 10 years ago, perhaps they've changed. But I doubt it.

I'm pretty sure they're the company that wanted a super cheap contract to bottle water in Michigan that didn't benefit taxpayers, like at all. And near-ish to Flint where there was that awful lead in the water issue going on for years and years. Talk about a slap in the face.

The company in general sounds like a typical money grubbing, fuck everyone and everything except profits, and who cares what we produce or how it's done because people buy it. And their chocolate is gritty. Woof.

TrixieJess · January 2018

For those of you interested, here's a good Nestle diagram:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020756/uploads/editor/mh/jtho0ktsq9s1.jpg

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

TrixieJess said:

For those of you interested, here's a good Nestle diagram:

I actually looked up Nestle brand stuff .... damn these parent companies hold a lot of random crap!
{also because Enfamil will be the brand we go to for formula if I opt for that and wanted to be sure it wasn't nestle}

TrixieJess · January 2018

MissKittyDanger said:

TrixieJess said:

For those of you interested, here's a good Nestle diagram:

I actually looked up Nestle brand stuff .... damn these parent companies hold a lot of random crap!
{also because Enfamil will be the brand we go to for formula if I opt for that and wanted to be sure it wasn't nestle}

Also, keep in mind that there are acquisitions all the time.

If you are getting formula, go through your doctor's office, they have samples and coupons and you can get freebies online. I filled out something at a baby show and got a whole bunch of formula (that I didn't need), so I ended up giving it to friends who were bottle feeding.

banana468 · January 2018

When Chiquita used formula we ultimately found that the Target and BJ's Brands used identical ingredients to Enfamil at a fraction of the cost.

Formula and babies are funky though.

MesmrEwe · January 2018

short+sassy said:

TrixieJess said:

Oi, I’ve had the animal testing argument with several people but I’ve known several researchers who have run animal experiments and I know the head of the animal lab at the local University. I’m not for testing for beauty products, but I do understand the need for medical research. Human trials are usually closely monitored by the drug companies, research boards, and hospitals. The more invasive the trial, the more the volunteers are compensated. There’s often a loyof paperwork that everyone has to filled out for these trials.

For anyone interested in a human trial from the perspective of someone who was "sort of" in one, read on. Though I was kicked out after the first night .
I was in one of the last of the human trials for this medicene. And I think some of the active, main ingredients were already used in other medications. So I felt pretty safe with it.
It was supposed to be for 10 days at a facility. As in, I couldn't leave at all. One researcher (I think she was also a nurse) would stay with me the whole time, though in a separate bedroom. I was going to be paid $2600 for it. The facility turned out to be a residential home where one big area had been turned into what looked like a mini lab.
Of course, I had to fill out some paperwork and sign disclosures and all that. But I wouldn't have called it a lot of paperwork.
Before being chosen, I had to visit their offices (I think) 3 times and have all kinds of tests and vitals run.
This is the eye rolling part. A major part of the paperwork was EVERY medicine I was taking and especially exactly what kinds of insulins I was taking and how much.
I went into the facility early evening. The researcher did this whole rigamaroll. Including being hooked up to a portable machine that would continually check my blood sugar numbers. Every time I took insulin, it was recorded. My vitals were also checked every few hours (though not overnight).
Mid-day the next day, the pharmaceutical company called freaking out that I was taking NPH instead of Lantus. They are insulins that do similar things, but Lantus is a much newer medicine. YEAH! DUH! It was disclosed in my paperwork that I use NPH. Not Lantus.
They wanted me out of the study, because of that. The researcher and the doctor each argued with the company for hours that they had already approved the insulins I was taking. And the type of long-acting insulin I was taking wouldn't matter for what they were studying anyway.
Nope. I was kicked out. I at least got $600 for my troubles. But $2600 would have been better (sigh).
-------------------------------------------------------
They didn't disclose the name of the drug to me. But they did tell me exactly what it did and how it worked. I saw it come onto market about one year later . I saw a commercial that gave a few sentence description of how the drug worked. I looked at my H with big, shocked eyes and start exclaiming, "Holy crap! Holy crap! That has to be the drug I was in the testing for!!! It's exactly the same." Interestingly, approved for Type II diabetics, but not for Type I (my type).
I asked my endocrinologist about that. He explained that, it wasn't that Type I diabetics couldn't take it, it just hadn't been found as effective for them as for Type II. So it didn't meet the FDA's benchmark for effectiveness to be marketed to Type I's. He did add that he doesn't think it is a bad idea for Type I's to try it, because it usually has some effect. From his experience, for some Type I's it did have a pretty good effect but, for most, it was only a minor effect.

My Mom was in the clinical trials for a drug that is now a "Cure" bio-med for a condition she got due to a blood transfusion after a miscarriage. Every time we hear about the med on TV we shout out a prayer that she was able to be in on that trial and how many countless lives are now being saved because of it and many through no fault of their own to have gotten the condition.

Flawed as the process may be, it's what we have to deal with, just look at how many things were fast-tracked only to discover "BAD idea!" in the long-term!

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

TrixieJess said:

MissKittyDanger said:

TrixieJess said:

For those of you interested, here's a good Nestle diagram:

I actually looked up Nestle brand stuff .... damn these parent companies hold a lot of random crap!
{also because Enfamil will be the brand we go to for formula if I opt for that and wanted to be sure it wasn't nestle}

Also, keep in mind that there are acquisitions all the time.

If you are getting formula, go through your doctor's office, they have samples and coupons and you can get freebies online. I filled out something at a baby show and got a whole bunch of formula (that I didn't need), so I ended up giving it to friends who were bottle feeding.

Yeh there's a baby show I think about a month before my due date and I was probably going to go.
Idk if my dr's office will do it since idk if she'll be the kid's dr, but I'll ask about samples!

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

banana468 said:

When Chiquita used formula we ultimately found that the Target and BJ's Brands used identical ingredients to Enfamil at a fraction of the cost.

Formula and babies are funky though.

Did you ever try walmart brand? I'm gonna price that as well

I'm just hoping I don't have a baby like M was. His mum warned he was a spitty baby, so she had to learn the "feed. wait. settle. feed." or else it all came back.

banana468 · January 2018

I avoid Wal Mart.

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

sparklepants41 · January 2018

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

When Chiquita used formula we ultimately found that the Target and BJ's Brands used identical ingredients to Enfamil at a fraction of the cost.

Formula and babies are funky though.

Did you ever try walmart brand? I'm gonna price that as well

I'm just hoping I don't have a baby like M was. His mum warned he was a spitty baby, so she had to learn the "feed. wait. settle. feed." or else it all came back.

Also get Similac samples. We started supplementing breastmilk with Enfamil when Babypants started daycare and even the purple kind with "Gentlease" made her spit up a lot. We switched to Similac Pro Sensitive and that solved the problem!!!

I also avoid Walmart.

kvruns · January 2018

Re: formula, not sure if it is the same in Canada, but in the US definitely sign up for Enfamil and Similac for samples/coupons. You want to sign up ahead of time so you get the samples ahead of time. Your OB office has samples and so does the pediatrician office. The hospital you are delivering at usually has one brand they start with if you do have formula in the hospital but, in my experience, they had both available we just tried Enfamil since that was what they first offered.

Walmart formula is what my daycare uses. They do the Walmart version of Similac and Enfamil. Baby B would get 1 bottle of formula and the rest were breastmilk. He never had a problem with the Walmart Enfamil they served and at home if he had occassional formula while we were out it was name brand Enfamil and he was ok with both. Not all babies are like that but luckily he didn't care.

TrixieJess · January 2018

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? We typically shop there because the prices are generally better

Walmart treats their employees really poorly. FI worked there for a time as a manager. He said it was one of his worst experiences in retail, and from where else he's worked, that's saying something.

TrixieJess · January 2018

kvruns said:

Re: formula, not sure if it is the same in Canada, but in the US definitely sign up for Enfamil and Similac for samples/coupons. You want to sign up ahead of time so you get the samples ahead of time. Your OB office has samples and so does the pediatrician office. The hospital you are delivering at usually has one brand they start with if you do have formula in the hospital but, in my experience, they had both available we just tried Enfamil since that was what they first offered.

Walmart formula is what my daycare uses. They do the Walmart version of Similac and Enfamil. Baby B would get 1 bottle of formula and the rest were breastmilk. He never had a problem with the Walmart Enfamil they served and at home if he had occassional formula while we were out it was name brand Enfamil and he was ok with both. Not all babies are like that but luckily he didn't care.

Most of the hospitals here don't allow formula unless it's cleared by a lactation consultant. They don't have formula on site, if you want formula, you have to bring it with you, as well as bottles.

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

@sparklepants41 I haven't looked at the difference in formula's but I'll see if I can find Similac Pro Sensitive so at least I know it's an option.
Why no walmart? Ours is really good.

@kvruns my dr's isn't a pediatrician directly {she's my gp} but we'll see. Haven't discussed her taking on the baby yet. I'll see what my OB's place offers though

I didn't know they could offer samples and/or coupons!

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

TrixieJess said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? We typically shop there because the prices are generally better

Walmart treats their employees really poorly. FI worked there for a time as a manager. He said it was one of his worst experiences in retail, and from where else he's worked, that's saying something.

Really? Damn

FIL works at Walmart and he's got no issues. He's customer service and a greeter {except for the fact people are stupid - no issues with management/employees}

banana468 · January 2018

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

A few reasons:
-They are known for not treating their employees well. The benefits they offer come long after employees are employees and often not extended to their spouses.

-I find their local stores often disorganized.

-It's nearly identical in timing for me to drive to Wal-Mart or Target. I love the items in Target much more. The clothing for kids, myself, socks, cards, pharmaceuticals are great.

TrixieJess · January 2018

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

A few reasons:
-They are known for not treating their employees well. The benefits they offer come long after employees are employees and often not extended to their spouses.

-I find their local stores often disorganized.

-It's nearly identical in timing for me to drive to Wal-Mart or Target. I love the items in Target much more. The clothing for kids, myself, socks, cards, pharmaceuticals are great.

I miss Target...

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

A few reasons:
-They are known for not treating their employees well. The benefits they offer come long after employees are employees and often not extended to their spouses.

-I find their local stores often disorganized.

-It's nearly identical in timing for me to drive to Wal-Mart or Target. I love the items in Target much more. The clothing for kids, myself, socks, cards, pharmaceuticals are great.

Fair enough. As I mentioned before, FIL works at a walmart and has no issues so I didn't realize treating employee treatment was bad

Our store is clean {which one reason I prefer certain stores}

I'm envious of your Target. We had Target but there was a huge security breech on the credit card a month after they opened and that kinda screwed things up here I believe

southernbelle0915 · January 2018

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

You may find "The High Cost of Low Prices" documentary worth watching.

- they treat their employees like shit, pay them unlivable wages, and discourage organizing
- their prices are low because of their size, which drives small businesses out
- speaking of driving small businesses out, the profits from purchases don't really stay in the community (like they would with a locally owned business)
- they take advantage of overseas markets that exploit the slave trade, use child labor, have extremely unsafe/filthy work environments, and shift money out of America and overseas
- they pay women less than men
- their meat sourcing supports the worst kind of factory farming

And lots of other reasons but those are just a few.

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

southernbelle0915 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

You may find "The High Cost of Low Prices" documentary worth watching.

- they treat their employees like shit, pay them unlivable wages, and discourage organizing
- their prices are low because of their size, which drives small businesses out
- speaking of driving small businesses out, the profits from purchases don't really stay in the community (like they would with a locally owned business)
- they take advantage of overseas markets that exploit the slave trade, use child labor, have extremely unsafe/filthy work environments, and shift money out of America and overseas
- they pay women less than men
- their meat sourcing supports the worst kind of factory farming

And lots of other reasons but those are just a few.

Is it on Netflix? I'll check it out.

banana468 · January 2018

Thanks for jogging my memory on some of the other issues @southernbelle0915.

Wal-Mart is one of the larger companies out there and they're a pain to work with as a supplier. They fine you for missing dock times, not supplying your product and make it very difficult to get into their stores as a small business. worked as a supplier to a few companies who ultimately couldn't make it due to the way that they conducted business.

If you want to talk about how American manufacturing is in crisis, look no further than Wal-Mart regarding how so many items are turned into cheap commodities supplied either overseas or by larger companies because the smaller ones are out priced or out lead-timed.

southernbelle0915 · January 2018

MissKittyDanger said:

southernbelle0915 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

You may find "The High Cost of Low Prices" documentary worth watching.

- they treat their employees like shit, pay them unlivable wages, and discourage organizing
- their prices are low because of their size, which drives small businesses out
- speaking of driving small businesses out, the profits from purchases don't really stay in the community (like they would with a locally owned business)
- they take advantage of overseas markets that exploit the slave trade, use child labor, have extremely unsafe/filthy work environments, and shift money out of America and overseas
- they pay women less than men
- their meat sourcing supports the worst kind of factory farming

And lots of other reasons but those are just a few.

Is it on Netflix? I'll check it out.

IDK - you'll have to look for it.

kvruns · January 2018

TrixieJess said:

kvruns said:

Re: formula, not sure if it is the same in Canada, but in the US definitely sign up for Enfamil and Similac for samples/coupons. You want to sign up ahead of time so you get the samples ahead of time. Your OB office has samples and so does the pediatrician office. The hospital you are delivering at usually has one brand they start with if you do have formula in the hospital but, in my experience, they had both available we just tried Enfamil since that was what they first offered.

Walmart formula is what my daycare uses. They do the Walmart version of Similac and Enfamil. Baby B would get 1 bottle of formula and the rest were breastmilk. He never had a problem with the Walmart Enfamil they served and at home if he had occassional formula while we were out it was name brand Enfamil and he was ok with both. Not all babies are like that but luckily he didn't care.

Most of the hospitals here don't allow formula unless it's cleared by a lactation consultant. They don't have formula on site, if you want formula, you have to bring it with you, as well as bottles.

wow that's crazy to me. So if someone thought about BFing but for whatever reason it didn't work out, you have to go out and buy formula ASAP?

short+sassy · January 2018

southernbelle0915 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

I avoid Wal Mart.

Oh? How come? {if you don't mind my asking} We typically shop there because the prices are generally better.

You may find "The High Cost of Low Prices" documentary worth watching.

- they treat their employees like shit, pay them unlivable wages, and discourage organizing
- their prices are low because of their size, which drives small businesses out
- speaking of driving small businesses out, the profits from purchases don't really stay in the community (like they would with a locally owned business)
- they take advantage of overseas markets that exploit the slave trade, use child labor, have extremely unsafe/filthy work environments, and shift money out of America and overseas
- they pay women less than men
- their meat sourcing supports the worst kind of factory farming

And lots of other reasons but those are just a few.

This is a big one for why I don't like Walmart. Though, admittedly, I still shop there.

In a sense, they're employees are subsidized by the U.S. government. Since Walmart doesn't page a living wage to their associates, many of them...even the full-timers...qualify for assistance programs.

To be fair, it's not just Walmart. It's any company that only pays the laughable Federal Minimum Wage. Which hasn't REMOTELY kept up with inflation over the years.

TrixieJess · January 2018

kvruns said:

TrixieJess said:

kvruns said:

Re: formula, not sure if it is the same in Canada, but in the US definitely sign up for Enfamil and Similac for samples/coupons. You want to sign up ahead of time so you get the samples ahead of time. Your OB office has samples and so does the pediatrician office. The hospital you are delivering at usually has one brand they start with if you do have formula in the hospital but, in my experience, they had both available we just tried Enfamil since that was what they first offered.

Walmart formula is what my daycare uses. They do the Walmart version of Similac and Enfamil. Baby B would get 1 bottle of formula and the rest were breastmilk. He never had a problem with the Walmart Enfamil they served and at home if he had occassional formula while we were out it was name brand Enfamil and he was ok with both. Not all babies are like that but luckily he didn't care.

Most of the hospitals here don't allow formula unless it's cleared by a lactation consultant. They don't have formula on site, if you want formula, you have to bring it with you, as well as bottles.

wow that's crazy to me. So if someone thought about BFing but for whatever reason it didn't work out, you have to go out and buy formula ASAP?

Either they have to have it on hand or yes go out. However, there are some hospitals that out and out don't allow formula without being cleared by a lactation consultant (I didn't deliver at that one), and are fairly militant about mothers breastfeeding. As a mom who exclusively breastfed for over a year, I find that appalling.

MesmrEwe · January 2018

kvruns said:

TrixieJess said:

kvruns said:

Re: formula, not sure if it is the same in Canada, but in the US definitely sign up for Enfamil and Similac for samples/coupons. You want to sign up ahead of time so you get the samples ahead of time. Your OB office has samples and so does the pediatrician office. The hospital you are delivering at usually has one brand they start with if you do have formula in the hospital but, in my experience, they had both available we just tried Enfamil since that was what they first offered.

Walmart formula is what my daycare uses. They do the Walmart version of Similac and Enfamil. Baby B would get 1 bottle of formula and the rest were breastmilk. He never had a problem with the Walmart Enfamil they served and at home if he had occassional formula while we were out it was name brand Enfamil and he was ok with both. Not all babies are like that but luckily he didn't care.

Most of the hospitals here don't allow formula unless it's cleared by a lactation consultant. They don't have formula on site, if you want formula, you have to bring it with you, as well as bottles.

wow that's crazy to me. So if someone thought about BFing but for whatever reason it didn't work out, you have to go out and buy formula ASAP?

SITB: Crazy to me too! I'm club "FEED THE BABY!" I don't care what method a couple chooses as "best for them" whether that's latching, exclusively pumping, supplement, formula, etc., and sometimes THE BABY chooses which method is best! (food allergies/sensitivities, tongue issues, etc.). I'm team "Happy Baby = well rested happy Mommy" (this after a colicy kid and a little angel, and being treated like CRAP by LC's for problems out of my control, and, the fact I wanted nothing to do with latching after experiences in my life, I didn't need to justify my choice to EP)

Couple Sues Wedding Vendors for $150k..

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