Don't apologize for her reaction.

mrsconn23 · March 2018

Dear Prudence,

I am a bisexual man in my 20s. I prefer women, but I have had casual sexual relationships with men. I’m also monogamous. I am comfortable with my sexuality and realize that it’s fine to be attracted to both genders but to still have a pretty strong preference. My friends and family are also very understanding and supportive. My issue is that I have had trouble telling women I date that I am bisexual. Many handle it fine, but some get very upset. A girl I had been dating pretty seriously for more than a month kicked me out when I casually mentioned it while we were at her house. She texted me that she “had never felt more lied to” and asked, “Why didn’t you tell me you were gay?” These comments hurt me, but I also feel guilty for hurting her. I don’t think that I led her on or lied to her, but I still feel bad that she is upset. How do I bring this up better next time, so that I can fully explain where I am coming from, and how long do I wait?

—Breaking the News

charlotte989875 · March 2018

I don't know if there is a perfect time to bring it up, probably sometime between the first date and things being "serious".

I'm trying not to judge, but I think "casually mentioning it" isn't the best approach. I think being upfront, clear, and honest is appropriate, but mentioning it in an off hand way seems, IDK, odd; like you're just slipping it into conversation hoping no one asks about it?

kimmiinthemitten · March 2018

I think if someone responds poorly, it’s clear you shouldn’t be in a relationship with them. Full stop.

MissKittyDanger · March 2018

Clearly she doesn't understand what bisexuality is.

LW shouldn't apologize, the girl clearly isn't accepting and now he knows.
If it was me, would I be shocked? Yeh sure, I feel that's expected {since everyone assumes the person they're dating is straight} but would it bother me? I dated a guy who was bi. It took time for me to get use to since it was something I wasn't use to, but whatever.

VarunaTT · March 2018

Coming out as bisexual is a rough journey. It's just literally never done. It worse than monosexuals, b/c unless we're waving our bi/pan flags all the time, people make assumptions based on the gender of our partner. The first time someone said, "Oh, are you a lesbian now?" to me after divorcing a cis-man and dating an NB person (with a sometimes femme expression), I nearly lost my shit. I managed to calmly explain that I was out as bi before, I'm still out as bi, and so far all of my partners fit the @#$%^&* parameters of my sexuality, #thankssomuch #kindinvitationtogofuckyourself.

I don't want to think about being bisexual all the time. I'd prefer to have people just not assume people's sexuality or consider it their business unless that person wants to date you, b/c you fit into their sexuality. But that's not the way the world works.

I generally offer it up when sex is on the table, b/c it's part of my sexual history. For me, I've had cis-men fetishize it immediately and want a threesome. Lesbians usually tap out immediately. Other bi/pan are usually like, "oh thank god," because we know judgement isn't about to happen.

ETA: Oh and LW didn't do a damn thing wrong and he needs to block her out of his life. People don't have to date a bisexual, that's also their preference (I have some thoughts/feels about those people and that preference and it's rooted in misogyny and homophobia), but her reaction was highly inappropriate. Hell, she could've just ghosted him.

ETA again: I re-read this and it sounded judgy. I have had straight men who didn't care and weren't weird about it. And I've had hookups with women who were exploring and decided they were actually straight. I also had one woman date me who never dated another women, but still identified as bi. And I've had married women who've never dated/kissed a woman, come out to me adn start asking questions b/c of their own personal confusion (I have yet to have a man do that). That's all okay. I try to tell people being bi doesn't come with a punchcard. You're bi b/c you say you are, not b/c of your sexual/dating history.

southernbelle0915 · March 2018

I'm still head tilting on "dating pretty seriously for more than a month". How serious can it be when y'all don't REALLY know each other that well? Obviously. Or she would have known you're bi and you would have probably known how she felt about dating bi people.

This really just sounds like an unfortunate casual relationship with an intolerant person. Move on and, to save investing time in people like her going forward, just tell people on the first date "Just so you know I'm bi. If that's a problem, let's go our separate ways."

MissKittyDanger · March 2018

@VarunaTT Is it harder because people don't understand/accept/see it as 'easily' as other sexualities? Or am I completely off? {ex: "you can't be bi, you have to be one or the other"}

STARMOON44 · March 2018

I think this is like finding out someone you’re dating is divorced. Sure, that might not work for you, but at a month in you shouldn’t be reacting like this.

short+sassy · March 2018

To an extent, I totally understand why his partner was upset. I'm going under the assumption that they had already been sleeping together. His bisexuality and any other pertinent sexual history info (on both sides)...I don't mean super detailed, like a list of partners...should have been discussed BEFORE they slept together. The right time was before that, not after it.

If I was dating someone and he told me he was a bi-sexual before we were intimate, I would have been calm. I would have asked questions. And I probably would have continued the relationship. But if I was told this after we were intimate. I would have flipped my s**t also, because to me that is a pertinent detail.

Some of this comes from my own personality. Usually about the time I'm ready to sleep with someone, is about the time I feel the relationship is heading in a more serious direction and I'm already monogamous with them. Not at all implying that bi-sexual people can't be monogamous, but one of the discussions would be is monogamy something he could do without feeling like he was "missing out", to the point where he would cheat on me with a man and/or it would occupy his thoughts too much. I wouldn't even care about and would expect the occasional fantasies about men, I'd just want to make sure we were on the same page and he didn't foresee it as being an obstacle in our relationship.

With all that said, the fact that she called him "gay' is obvious ignorance on her part. But then, it's all the more reason his bi-sexuality should have been disclosed before they slept together.

STARMOON44 · March 2018

short+sassy said:

To an extent, I totally understand why his partner was upset. I'm going under the assumption that they had already been sleeping together. His bisexuality and any other pertinent sexual history info (on both sides)...I don't mean super detailed, like a list of partners...should have been discussed BEFORE they slept together. The right time was before that, not after it.
If I was dating someone and he told me he was a bi-sexual before we were intimate, I would have been calm. I would have asked questions. And I probably would have continued the relationship. But if I was told this after we were intimate. I would have flipped my s**t also, because to me that is a pertinent detail.
Some of this comes from my own personality. Usually about the time I'm ready to sleep with someone, is about the time I feel the relationship is heading in a more serious direction and I'm already monogamous with them. Not at all implying that bi-sexual people can't be monogamous, but one of the discussions would be is monogamy something he could do without feeling like he was "missing out", to the point where he would cheat on me with a man and/or it would occupy his thoughts too much. I wouldn't even care about and would expect the occasional fantasies about men, I'd just want to make sure we were on the same page and he didn't foresee it as being an obstacle in our relationship.
With all that said, the fact that she called him "gay' is obvious ignorance on her part. But then, it's all the more reason his bi-sexuality should have been disclosed before they slept together.

I’m not sure I agree with this. I don’t think you have an affirmative obligation to disclose to a new partner who you sleep with. If it’s important to you to know that, I think it’s your job to ask. And there is zero correlation between being bisexual and being incapable of monogamy. I don’t see how the fact that he slept with Samuel is any more relevant than Samantha

VarunaTT · March 2018

MissKittyDanger said:

@VarunaTT Is it harder because people don't understand/accept/see it as 'easily' as other sexualities? Or am I completely off? {ex: "you can't be bi, you have to be one or the other"}

There's a lot of reasons:

1. The personal journey as a bi/pan person is a personally confusing one. B/c most representation in our media is a gay man/lesbian or heterosexual one. So, I thought for awhile I was gay. Then I was like, wait no, I do like masculine too. So I must be confused. I never even knew bisexual was really a thing until college (this was late 90s, so queer culture was not as easily accessible in the Bible Belt of the Midwest). When Callie on Grey's Anatomy called herself bisexual, I burst into tears. Bisexuals end up taking longer to come out, b/c it's not so clear and, until recently, we didn't really have open examples to look up to.

2. I get to college and I'm thinking WHAT'S THIS MAGICAL THING CALLED BISEXUAL, THAT'S ME!!! and exploring my sexuality, as college kids are wont to do. And start hitting the wall of gay men and lesbians telling me that "Bisexuality isn't a thing...you need to pick a side...you're just confused...you're really gay, you're just scared to be gay...fence strider." There was actually a really big fight in my college gay and lesbian alliance group, to even include bisexuals. There's still a lot of prejudice against bisexuals in the queer community and most of it comes from the cisgender men/women who are gay. While I understand the baggage, I'm not okay with it.

3. Most bi/pan people do tend to end up in relationships that "pass" b/c they look heterosexual. It's a larger dating pool, TBH. But it took one friend telling me, "Is your sexual orientation a queer one? Yes. Does your current partner fit into that queer sexual oriention? Yes. Then, it's a queer relationship and don't let anyone take that from you." And another friend who pointing out that "passing privilege" [a bisexual in a hetero appearing relationship] isn't really a privilege, it's erasure, again, of the bisexual place in the queer community. So bisexuals will almost erase themselves sometimes, b/c we're not sure where we fit. I called myself an ally for awhile until someone told me that wasn't my place, my place was in the community.

4. And the misogyny and homophobia is that a bisexual woman has probably had sex with a penis and a bisexual man has probably had sex with a penis. For the women trying to date women, that makes them not a gold star lesbian or the fear that they'll somehow "miss" the penis. For the men trying to date men, it's misogyny b/c someone has to be the receiver, thus womanized, or that they'll somehow miss "vagina". And from the straight people, I think it's internalized homophobia they didn't realize they had. Ew, how can I sleep with a man who's slept with a man and vice versa, that's okay for other people, but not for me and then somehow still missing the other gender's genitals.

6fsn · March 2018

@VarunaTT- I don't want you to think you need to be a spokesperson, but you are so DAMN good. I always appreciate your thoughts and words and the time and effort it takes to present them.

MissKittyDanger · March 2018

6fsn said:

@VarunaTT- I don't want you to think you need to be a spokesperson, but you are so DAMN good. I always appreciate your thoughts and words and the time and effort it takes to present them.

I think it's the way she explains and the fact she can put a personal touch to it makes it just so much better and understandable!

VarunaTT · March 2018

Well thank you. It is what I do for my community involvement and spare time, so I try really hard. Most of the time, I'm trying to figure out how to NOT write a wall of text. In person, it's so much easier to do funny anecdotes that I end up taking out when I write for you guys.

Also, I do feel like as who I am, I do need to be a spokesperson, when appropriate and necessary, for the marginalized of my larger community, so I never get too veklempt about questions.

6fsn · March 2018

I appreciate you V.

@misskittydanger- I think it's more than the personal touch. I think it's because V is wicked smart too.

charlotte989875 · March 2018

short+sassy said:

To an extent, I totally understand why his partner was upset. I'm going under the assumption that they had already been sleeping together. His bisexuality and any other pertinent sexual history info (on both sides)...I don't mean super detailed, like a list of partners...should have been discussed BEFORE they slept together. The right time was before that, not after it.
If I was dating someone and he told me he was a bi-sexual before we were intimate, I would have been calm. I would have asked questions. And I probably would have continued the relationship. But if I was told this after we were intimate. I would have flipped my s**t also, because to me that is a pertinent detail.
Some of this comes from my own personality. Usually about the time I'm ready to sleep with someone, is about the time I feel the relationship is heading in a more serious direction and I'm already monogamous with them. Not at all implying that bi-sexual people can't be monogamous, but one of the discussions would be is monogamy something he could do without feeling like he was "missing out", to the point where he would cheat on me with a man and/or it would occupy his thoughts too much. I wouldn't even care about and would expect the occasional fantasies about men, I'd just want to make sure we were on the same page and he didn't foresee it as being an obstacle in our relationship.
With all that said, the fact that she called him "gay' is obvious ignorance on her part. But then, it's all the more reason his bi-sexuality should have been disclosed before they slept together.

I also disagree here on a few points;

Bolded 1; I think there are some things that should be discussed before sex; STI status, pregnancy prevention/STI prevention methods, and maybe when you were last tested. If you're currently sleeping with someone else, too (unless it's obviously a hook up/one night thing). But I don't know that a list (or number) of who you've slept with, and their genders, are necessarily a required disclosure. There is nothing inherently risky about having sex with someone who has sex with someone of another gender.

Bolded 2; why would some who is bi be less likely to be monogamous? I just don't think that sexuality and committedness correlate.

VarunaTT · March 2018

I gotta be honest here. After my divorce, I went out and had a lot of sex for fun. And I didn't have one discussion about my past sexual history. I had my latest STD paperwork on me. Lots of queer people (and I would actually hope anyone who is sexually active and nonmonogamous) just do that anymore. That's the only thing you can really trust and it's the easiest thing. You don't need to know gender of partners to discuss sexual safety.

As to the missing out thing, this is one that kind of gets under my skin. I don't believe any single person in a committed relationship, doesn't ever miss the experience of romancing, kissing, or having sex with someone else, once in awhile, regardless of sexual orientation. One of my favorite writers just recently had a great column about this, that really says it much better than I can: https://bisexual.org/yes-sometimes-i-do-miss-being-with-men/

southernbelle0915 · March 2018

Yea, I don't think anyone should need to disclose a list of partners (male, female or both). But a clean bill of sexual health SHOULD be attained and discussed beforehand. Not to is irresponsible.

I have no idea the exact number of people my husband has slept with or their names. He has no idea for me. We knew/know that we're both sexually healthy and STD free so that's all that really matters.

VarunaTT · March 2018

Also, I'm really old. I don't think my number was astronomically high, but I doubt very much I can remember it or everyone at this point. I had fun in college and my single days. *shrug*

In my head, I'm like....more than 15, less than 30?

STARMOON44 · March 2018

southernbelle0915 said:

Yea, I don't think anyone should need to disclose a list of partners (male, female or both). But a clean bill of sexual health SHOULD be attained and discussed beforehand. Not to is irresponsible.

I have no idea the exact number of people my husband has slept with or their names. He has no idea for me. We knew/know that we're both sexually healthy and STD free so that's all that really matters.

Eh, to each their own. I’ve hooked up with people I brought home from a bar without demanding they provide me with proof of STD status. Wear a condom. Go to the gyn regularly. I don’t think I’m being irresponsible. Totally okay to have a different standard on that!

short+sassy · March 2018

charlotte989875 said:

short+sassy said:

To an extent, I totally understand why his partner was upset. I'm going under the assumption that they had already been sleeping together. His bisexuality and any other pertinent sexual history info (on both sides)...I don't mean super detailed, like a list of partners...should have been discussed BEFORE they slept together. The right time was before that, not after it.
If I was dating someone and he told me he was a bi-sexual before we were intimate, I would have been calm. I would have asked questions. And I probably would have continued the relationship. But if I was told this after we were intimate. I would have flipped my s**t also, because to me that is a pertinent detail.
Some of this comes from my own personality. Usually about the time I'm ready to sleep with someone, is about the time I feel the relationship is heading in a more serious direction and I'm already monogamous with them. Not at all implying that bi-sexual people can't be monogamous, but one of the discussions would be is monogamy something he could do without feeling like he was "missing out", to the point where he would cheat on me with a man and/or it would occupy his thoughts too much. I wouldn't even care about and would expect the occasional fantasies about men, I'd just want to make sure we were on the same page and he didn't foresee it as being an obstacle in our relationship.
With all that said, the fact that she called him "gay' is obvious ignorance on her part. But then, it's all the more reason his bi-sexuality should have been disclosed before they slept together.

I also disagree here on a few points;

Bolded 1; I think there are some things that should be discussed before sex; STI status, pregnancy prevention/STI prevention methods, and maybe when you were last tested. If you're currently sleeping with someone else, too (unless it's obviously a hook up/one night thing). But I don't know that a list (or number) of who you've slept with, and their genders, are necessarily a required disclosure. There is nothing inherently risky about having sex with someone who has sex with someone of another gender.

Bolded 2; why would some who is bi be less likely to be monogamous? I just don't think that sexuality and committedness correlate.

If it was a casual hook-up...which, just me personally was something I rarely did...I wouldn't care and wouldn't need a discussion. It's really more the emotional aspect. A person's sexuality is a part of who they are. And if I'm involved with someone in a monogamous, sexual relationship. It IS my business to know about their sexual identity.

I definitely understand that bi people are no more or less likely to be monogamous. But you can't paint everybody with the same brush. Just because most bi people feel that they won't miss the other gender when they are in a monogamous relationship, doesn't mean that's true for everyone. It's impossible to say that. I vetted all my partners about their views on cheating. It would be one more "check/question" and reassurance that I would need if my partner was bisexual.

And the general idea I'm getting at, understanding people's sexual preferences that might be different from your own, applies to many other things. For a real example, I previously had a b/f who...when we first getting to know each other and talking about what we liked sexually...he talked about how much he liked anal sex. That's a no deal for me. So I had a serious discussion with him about it. Is it something he would miss too much? Could it end up being a barrier in our relationship or possibly prompt him to cheat, down the road? Does he think it's "all good" because he thinks he'll change my mind someday (unlikely)?

MissKittyDanger · March 2018

southernbelle0915 said:

Yea, I don't think anyone should need to disclose a list of partners (male, female or both). But a clean bill of sexual health SHOULD be attained and discussed beforehand. Not to is irresponsible.

I have no idea the exact number of people my husband has slept with or their names. He has no idea for me. We knew/know that we're both sexually healthy and STD free so that's all that really matters.

Even if you're with someone, break up, get back together I think the conversation should be had.

I made the mistake of trusting an ex. He said that while we split he slept with someone else, he wore a condom. We made the stupid decision of not using condom when we had sex.
Well .... my gyn appt told me he lied. I ended up with an STD *head desk*
Obv that turned into a fun conversation with him - we had split again by this point fyi - but that's a whole other ordeal.

charlotte989875 · March 2018

VarunaTT said:

I gotta be honest here. After my divorce, I went out and had a lot of sex for fun. And I didn't have one discussion about my past sexual history. I had my latest STD paperwork on me. Lots of queer people (and I would actually hope anyone who is sexually active and nonmonogamous) just do that anymore. That's the only thing you can really trust and it's the easiest thing. You don't need to know gender of partners to discuss sexual safety.

As to the missing out thing, this is one that kind of gets under my skin. I don't believe any single person in a committed relationship, doesn't ever miss the experience of romancing, kissing, or having sex with someone else, once in awhile, regardless of sexual orientation. One of my favorite writers just recently had a great column about this, that really says it much better than I can: https://bisexual.org/yes-sometimes-i-do-miss-being-with-men/

Yup this is where I'm at. I don't think orientation or identity means you feel this more, or less, acutely.

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 · March 2018

short+sassy said:

charlotte989875 said:

short+sassy said:

To an extent, I totally understand why his partner was upset. I'm going under the assumption that they had already been sleeping together. His bisexuality and any other pertinent sexual history info (on both sides)...I don't mean super detailed, like a list of partners...should have been discussed BEFORE they slept together. The right time was before that, not after it.
If I was dating someone and he told me he was a bi-sexual before we were intimate, I would have been calm. I would have asked questions. And I probably would have continued the relationship. But if I was told this after we were intimate. I would have flipped my s**t also, because to me that is a pertinent detail.
Some of this comes from my own personality. Usually about the time I'm ready to sleep with someone, is about the time I feel the relationship is heading in a more serious direction and I'm already monogamous with them. Not at all implying that bi-sexual people can't be monogamous, but one of the discussions would be is monogamy something he could do without feeling like he was "missing out", to the point where he would cheat on me with a man and/or it would occupy his thoughts too much. I wouldn't even care about and would expect the occasional fantasies about men, I'd just want to make sure we were on the same page and he didn't foresee it as being an obstacle in our relationship.
With all that said, the fact that she called him "gay' is obvious ignorance on her part. But then, it's all the more reason his bi-sexuality should have been disclosed before they slept together.

I also disagree here on a few points;

Bolded 1; I think there are some things that should be discussed before sex; STI status, pregnancy prevention/STI prevention methods, and maybe when you were last tested. If you're currently sleeping with someone else, too (unless it's obviously a hook up/one night thing). But I don't know that a list (or number) of who you've slept with, and their genders, are necessarily a required disclosure. There is nothing inherently risky about having sex with someone who has sex with someone of another gender.

Bolded 2; why would some who is bi be less likely to be monogamous? I just don't think that sexuality and committedness correlate.

If it was a casual hook-up...which, just me personally was something I rarely did...I wouldn't care and wouldn't need a discussion. It's really more the emotional aspect. A person's sexuality is a part of who they are. And if I'm involved with someone in a monogamous, sexual relationship. It IS my business to know about their sexual identity.
I definitely understand that bi people are no more or less likely to be monogamous. But you can't paint everybody with the same brush.  Just because most bi people feel that they won't miss the other gender when they are in a monogamous relationship, doesn't mean that's true for everyone. It's impossible to say that. I vetted all my partners about their views on cheating. It would be one more "check/question" and reassurance that I would need if my partner was bisexual.
And the general idea I'm getting at, understanding people's sexual preferences that might be different from your own, applies to many other things.  For a real example, I previously had a b/f who...when we first getting to know each other and talking about what we liked sexually...he talked about how much he liked anal sex. That's a no deal for me. So I had a serious discussion with him about it. Is it something he would miss too much? Could it end up being a barrier in our relationship or possibly prompt him to cheat, down the road? Does he think it's "all good" because he thinks he'll change my mind someday (unlikely)?

And it's views like these that keep so many bisexual people in the closet. Please keep your homophobic opinions far away from any lgbtq people in your life.

Don't apologize for her reaction.

Re: Don't apologize for her reaction.

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