I'm not sure how you can save this.
Dear Prudence,
I am a 47-year-old man. I have a 12-year-old son and 14-year-old daughter from a previous marriage. When I was dating my now-wife, I was clear that I do not want any other children, and she reassured me she wasn’t interested in children of her own. Now she is 38 and tells me she has to have a baby or she will “die.”
We have been married six years and seen two different counselors, and it always boils down to my wife repeating, “I want a baby, I need a baby, why won’t you give me a baby?” We are sleeping in separate rooms and the tension in my marriage is affecting my kids. My daughter recently asked not to be left alone with my wife anymore, saying, “I am not her real daughter, so why bother playing pretend?” They used to be very close.
My wife blames me for this rift and says I am poisoning the kids against her. I tell her they have ears and she has not been circumspect about deciding they were not enough for her anymore. I love my wife, but I am not changing diapers again at my age. I am not the one upending our marriage! I want to save my marriage, but I don’t know how.
—Baby Breakup
Re: I'm not sure how you can save this.
My point is, people can change their minds on this. Maybe when they were dating she truly was ambivalent or didn't want kids. (Maybe she always did want one and didn't want to lose him and lied, but I'd rather not think that.) Anyway, sounds like they're at an impasse. I feel bad for the existing children too, knowing they're not good enough for her. Probably better for them to part ways.
I think they need to have a frank discussion to see if that's ever going to change. If not it's time to get a good lawyer.
I think a separation is in order. She wants something you can't give to her. The longer you both try and convince each other to give the worse it's going to get.
Even if the husband here agrees to have a child with her, she sounds like the type of woman who would now have a "real" daughter and treat the children differently and try to drive further wedges between his children and their child.
But I'm a (I think) thoughtful person who did and does take this shit into account. So yeah, this hell on wheels would possible become a worse nightmare with her own kid. The only saving grace for his original kids would be that they have 4 and 6 years before they can GTFO and (maybe) have their mom's home to escape to.
This is not to say that your wife doesn't bear responsibility for the problem, because yes, I can sympathize that having told her that you don't want any more children, her bringing it up nonstop and claiming she'll "die" if she doesn't have a baby is annoying. But as long as you are each insisting on your own way, in a situation that doesn't allow for compromise, your marriage doesn't have a chance.
These are always such sad situations. I'm a big proponent of compromise when there are issues in a relationship. But this is a problem that can't be solved with compromise.
The H doesn't want another child. He was clear about that from Day One. The only way he can save his marriage is if he capitulates and will still love and be a good father to another baby. But I don't blame him one bit if he doesn't change his mind. That doesn't make him a bad guy, in the slightest.
As for the wife, I can't fault her for her feelings changing. It's really sad that happened. But I do fault her on the outrageous stance she is taking with her anger and "why won't you give me a baby". Girl, you're the one who suddenly changed the rules.
Edited to add warning...
Warning: discussion of miscarriage and fertility problems for women in their 40s.
I'm also curious if she's even looked at the reality of the situation. As a 44-year-old myself, I feel like I'm in the prime of life. I'm still a young, hard charging woman. I feel like, if I wanted a baby, nbd. And then I'd look at the statistics (which I did, out of curiousity, recently). They are ugly once you are 40 or over.
In regards to fertility and carrying a baby to term, you wouldn't think there is much difference between 39 and 40. Or 40 and 41. And so on and so on. But, statistically, there is. I was shocked at how visible the decline was. Even from just one year to another. For example, at the age of 45, if a woman can even get pregnant (less than a 2% chance when ovulating), she has a 54% chance of a miscarriage. I was tempted to stop taking my BC, lol. But, goddamnit, a chance is still a chance. So I do.
At any rate, wife might blow up her marriage and never be able to get pregnant anyway. Or she might need fertility treatments, which are emotionally and physically tough. On top of being very expensive.
Anecdotal evidence! But I had a friend who got married later in life. At the age of 38, she conceived within a few months of trying and delivered a healthy, wonderful baby at 39. They waited about 6 months and started trying for a second. She never conceived again. At about 41, she went to her OB/GYN to see what was wrong. She was told there was physically nothing wrong. But her age would make it a slim chance that she would be able to conceive and the doctor suggested fertility treatments would be their best chance.
She and her H decided they did not want to go down the fertility route. They chose "chance" and if it happened, it happened and would be amazing. But I was happy to see that they at least completely adjusted their expectations. They hoped, but no longer expected to get pregnant. They were disappointed, but thankful for their one child.
1) She's not being reasonable if she actually says, "She'll just die."
2) They both share the burden of responsibility if the kids are hearing their discussions that contribute to the marital discord.
LW's wife is allowed to change her mind but LW doesn't have to. So assuming that LW isn't painting a picture to suit his side and this is the actual truth, this isn't salvageable because in addition to changing her mind he's losing respect for her. It may not even matter what the truth is if he sees that the discomfort his children have is directly tied to her. He's going to most likely side with his own offspring over the step parent that he blames for the rift. The marriage will not recover.
It's not wrong of him not to want children, but as long as neither is willing to accept what the other wants, the marriage is going to be troubled. And if neither one is ever going to change his or her current position regardless of how the other one feels so that they'll never be on the same page about this, then there's no marriage left to save.
There are (IMO) very few things in life where there is no possibility of compromises, and this is one of them. I think there are some things that can't be compromised over, and people shouldn't be expected to change their minds over, or be open to, just because the other person deviated from the agreed upon choice.
I met my H when I was 25ish. He is 10 years older than me and already had 4 daughters between two ex-wives. Kids were definitely off the table for him. At that time, I was slightly open to the idea of kids...like if I fell in love with someone who really wanted them...but had never actually felt a desire to have them and leaned more heavily to "no". Great!
As things got more serious, I did occasionally have a niggle of a worry that an overwhelming desire to have a child...that so many other people seem to experience...would hit me like a ton of bricks one day. And then where would we be.
Thankfully, that never happened. In fact, it was just the opposite. The more time progressed, the more awful having children sounded to me.
My dog and cat are needy enough for my attention (said with love and a smile). And insist on being fed all the time, lol. I've heard rumors that children are like this x100, lol. But I bet the love and smiles are too.
It's a sad situation, and I hate saying this, but I honestly don't see how they can make the marriage work at this point. Having kids is not something you can "agree to disagree" on. It sounds like the wife is very dramatic and even manipulative, not to mention already very resentful toward LW about his not wanting to have any more children and is blaming him for whatever problems they are having. That's a very tough situation to come back from.
By "responsibility" all I mean is that both are staking out incompatible positions and neither one is willing to budge. Like PPs say, that's a very sad situation. It doesn't mean either is right or wrong.
I don't know. I feel for the LW. If DH told me that he needs to have kids all of the sudden, I'm still a hard no, but I would hate to see him upset about something so big. It must be devastating to want to fix the marriage knowing that you can't without doing something you really don't want to go through.
Since there doesn't appear to be any likelihood that he will change his mind about having children or that she will revert to her earlier agreement not to have any, I don't think their marriage can be saved.
They're only both responsible in that this is a conflict that can only be resolved if two people are in agreement. However there was no conflict 6 years ago and now there is because SHE changed her mind. Whether she truly did not agree with him and only said it out loud 6 years ago is not stated anywhere. And if the bolded IS true then no, SHE is responsible for the current situation because they wouldn't have been in this pickle had she spoken up before they tied TK.
That said, we have NO WAY of knowing if the bolded is actually true.
How is he responsible for the conflict when he's not the one that changed his mind years later?
In my experience, and this is going to contradict what Lovesclimbing said, and the reported experiences of CF people across many different forums and in many articles (online and print), few people who are truly CF ever change their mind about having kids. We know we are CF at 12, 20, 30, etc. We never get Baby Rabies, no matter who around is having kids nor whom we marry. And we are typically 100% upfront with our partners as the relationships get serious that we in no way ever want a child, nor will have one with you. Because the LW's scenario is our worst nightmare.
But Fencesitters change their minds. And people who actually want kids but lie to their partners because they think their partners will change their minds, seemingly change their minds.
I read multiple versions of this letter on Reddit subs every day. I'd bet 1 million dollars Wife didn't change her mind, that she always wanted a child with the LW and was just waiting for him to settle down in their marriage and "change his mind."
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
H and I are both Fencesitters. We were when we met. And now we're both like "yeah, one at some point would be okay". But we were never CF from day one. We were never tons-of-babies, either.
The lying is the problem. And why women are never taken seriously (well, part of the reason, #patriarchy). I think it needs to be far, far more acceptable to be CF, unsure, and totally sure about having kids. All these choices are equally valid, but certainly aren't treated that way.
H and I are 100% CF. If H ever came to me saying he wanted children, I wouldn't be able to make him happy and myself happy. I think people need to have very clear conversations about children and be 100% honest. It is better to say I'm not sure than agree with something you haven't thought through.
I have been ludicrously lucky as of late in these regards. When I first got married, despite most people knowing that I was CF by choice, I got so many "you'll change your mind" comments. It just really makes me feel juvenile, because another way of saying that comment is "you don't know what you're talking about when you say you don't want kids but I know what's really going on". No, no you don't - I'm not changing my mind. This is who I am, who I've always been. Kids aren't for me.
But I haven't had those comments for so long now. It makes me happy that it seems people are starting to see that CF is indeed a way of life for some couples. Of course, now that I've said something, today someone is going to say something to me ...
The second bolded is also my nightmare.