I want to live wild and free and my family is dragging me for it.

mrsconn23 · October 2018

Dear Prudence,

I am a 34-year-old woman who recently escaped a 13-year marriage. We have two young children and are splitting custody. After more than a decade of verbal abuse, excessive control, gaslighting, and belittlement, I am healing and getting my life back. I have always dreamed of living in a cabin in the woods and being self-sufficient and recently found a mountain cabin on 40 acres. My career and personal skills make me uniquely suited for life there, even as a single parent with two kids in tow. I have shared this dream with my parents and several close friends, and they all think I’m crazy. I’ve been criticized for wanting to “isolate” my children in the wilderness, robbing them of their social lives due to a 45-minute commute, damaging them by denying them the apparent God-given right to have individual bedrooms … it goes on. After the life I’ve lived, I cannot compromise anymore on how I want to live. I would be miserable in a city on a postage stamp lot. I don’t want to care for a three-bedroom house with multiple bathrooms. Obviously, if I was making an unsafe decision that would harm myself or my kids, I hope my friends would step in. But what I feel we have here is differing philosophies and an inability to relate to my perspective because it seems so “out there.” What can I say to my family and friends to help them understand my perspective? Am I making a huge mistake by following my dream?

—Life After Divorce

flantastic · October 2018

The kids may be too young to have a real opinion, but if not - this is their home too. Has she talked to them at all?

Now, the family members may just be expressing their (differing) idea of what's best for the kids, also without talking to said children. But "following your dream" is not the only consideration here, although I feel for her in having felt so stifled during the abuse of her marriage and understand that she really wants to break free.

If their mom is happy and fulfilled, that will be good for the kids. And sometimes kids just don't get a say and have to deal. But I can't say for sure that her plan is definitely the best one for the whole family. I was a kid with no social life (homeschooled through 8th) and while some aspects of that were good for me, it SUCKED at the time and we were isolated.

edit - word jumble

mrsconn23 · October 2018

I love all your points @flantastic.

Also I think if LW's family AND friends are raising red flags over this, it may be worth exploring the 'why' here. I mean, is LW wanting this in reaction to how bad their marriage was? They want the complete opposite (wide open spaces vs. 'cramped' city life) because it reminds them of their ex? It may be worth exploring why they're wanting this change. And yes, what do the kids want?

Also, what is the custody arrangement? I mean, unfortunately abuse is hard to prove (especially mental/emotional) in family court without a lot of evidence (psych reports/evaluations/witnesses) and even then, it may not be enough to take away all rights from the other parent. So moving out into the wild may be harder from a legal standpoint for LW than they realize.

LW's hard stance on 'not compromising' could end up being more detrimental than they think.

ShesSoCold · October 2018

It's hard for people to accept changes in other people and this might be the case here. I'm getting a ton of, "You're going to be miserable in Montana! Why on earth would you ever move there!?!?!?!" and very few people are supportive. Maybe that's the same thing going on here.

If LW is sharing custody, then the kids might (I'm assuming exH doesn't live in the middle of nowhere) still get the neighborhood bike riding childhood thing. And they'll also get to learn how to build fires, hunt, IDK, that kind of shit. Some kids love that kind of thing. H would have LOVED to have grown up in the woods.

STARMOON44 · October 2018

I think it is a huge mistake to make massive life changes after such a traumatic event. All or nothing thinking worries me. You can have not three bedrooms without living in the wilderness. You can be outside the city without being 45 minutes from a school.

baconsmom · October 2018

45 minutes does not sound like a lot to me, at all. This sounds like it'll be my childhood, in the suburbs in CT: there was no bike-riding, no sidewalks, lots of space and land and yes, being at home. We weren't isolated, but we weren't on top of people like every other place I've lived.

Personally, I love cities and close-in sorts of "suburbs". I like being near things and people, even if I actually hate the people if I have to talk to them or, like, be in crowds. But it's not for everyone, and I think it sounds fine.

And bottom line: She can always move back if it doesn't suit her.

banana468 · October 2018

I'm trying to understand what the 45 minute commute is to. Is it a 45 minute commute to their father? Their grandparents? Will they be schooled 45 minutes away?

What does she see as the social arrangement for her kids while they are there with her? Is this a place in the mountains Kaczynski-style and far from anything other than quiet or is it just not urban?

What I do think:
-Her last question "Am I making a huge mistake by following my dream?" is loaded and full of bullshit. It's not just about her. Sure she's just off-loaded the baggage of an abusive spouse but she has kids. And their needs come ahead of her wants. And while food, clothing, and shelter are the bare minimum their socialization and education need to be factored as well.

My advice: figure out what place can work for her benefit and the kids. If the place in the wilderness is to the detriment of their children's educational and social development then she should find an intermediate location that allows her children to thrive and then put the cabin in the woods as a more long term goal.

climbingsingle · October 2018

I wonder what the 45 minute commute is for? That doesn't seem clear to me. Is that just 45 minutes to where their current friends/family are? If so, that's not very far way.

But I agree that a healthy, happy mother equals healthy, happy kids. Who knows what these kids have already witnessed. If this move helps her live a peaceful, happy life, she should do it.

VarunaTT · October 2018

I'm weirded out that people are worked up over the kids. We lived 1/2 an hour outside of any town city. Yeah, there were aspects that sucked, but I ran all over our property too. I don't remember hating it until I got older and I was close enough to driving that it worked out. I wasn't delayed....is she somehow pulling them from school?

I would want more info overall, but realistically, LW doesn't sound rash. LW probably has to make a decision about where to live after the divorce, so why not go for the thing she wants? I kinda feel like there's some --ism I can't put my finger on happening here. If she had lived out in the country in this setting and hated it and wanted to move TO the 3 bedroom house with multiple bathrooms...I don't think LW would be experiencing this issue.

mrsconn23 · October 2018

VarunaTT said:

I'm weirded out that people are worked up over the kids. We lived 1/2 an hour outside of any town city. Yeah, there were aspects that sucked, but I ran all over our property too. I don't remember hating it until I got older and I was close enough to driving that it worked out. I wasn't delayed....is she somehow pulling them from school?

I think it's more about the fact that LW is freshly divorced, and the marriage was clearly traumatic for LW. But what about the kids? Were they exposed to the abuse? Also, what kind of upheaval have they already had because of the divorce (whether or not they experienced abuse by their other parent)? While LW should do what they feel is necessary for their well-being, they can't discount what the kids have gone through or might go through if they LW takes them away from a currently familiar environment.

I don't think living out in the country is bad. We're in the outer suburbs of a major city. We live outside a neighborhood, on a big lot and it's pretty country if you go a few miles up the road. The only drawback is that we can't just send DefConn out to find neighbor kids to hang with like the kiddo did. But he goes to school and we have friends and family over as often as we can. I do need to improve my reaching out his friend's parents to arrange get togethers with classmates. I'm paralyzingly shy/self-conscious about it.

STARMOON44 · October 2018

mrsconn23 said:

VarunaTT said:

I'm weirded out that people are worked up over the kids. We lived 1/2 an hour outside of any town city. Yeah, there were aspects that sucked, but I ran all over our property too. I don't remember hating it until I got older and I was close enough to driving that it worked out. I wasn't delayed....is she somehow pulling them from school?

I think it's more about the fact that LW is freshly divorced, and the marriage was clearly traumatic for LW. But what about the kids? Were they exposed to the abuse? Also, what kind of upheaval have they already had because of the divorce (whether or not they experienced abuse by their other parent)? While LW should do what they feel is necessary for their well-being, they can't discount what the kids have gone through or might go through if they LW takes them away from a currently familiar environment.

I don't think living out in the country is bad. We're in the outer suburbs of a major city. We live outside a neighborhood, on a big lot and it's pretty country if you go a few miles up the road. The only drawback is that we can't just send DefConn out to find neighbor kids to hang with like the kiddo did. But he goes to school and we have friends and family over as often as we can. I do need to improve my reaching out his friend's parents to arrange get togethers with classmates. I'm paralyzingly shy/self-conscious about it.

Yeah the out in a country part alone isn’t what gives me pause it’s the homesteading in a cabin on 40 acres 45 minutes from anything vibe that seems dramatically too much to accomplish her goals. And why can’t the kids each have a bedroom if that’s what they are used to? Isn’t a country benefit having space to spread out?

banana468 · October 2018

This letter is oddly similar to the LW from a few weeks ago who had his condo and his GF wanted a house.

I just find it hard to believe that there aren't other ways to accomplish a goal here.

short+sassy · October 2018

I'm having a lot of the same questions you all have, ie how extreme and far away from civilization are we talking?

Overall, I think she should at least wait a bit and let the dust of her divorce settle before making any major life changes. Like buying the cabin. Heck, talk to the owner. Maybe he/she would be open to a rent-to-own situation where the LW could try it out. Usually the way those are set up, she'd still be out some money if she found she didn't like it. But it would still be substantially cheaper and easier than buying a property. Only to find out it's not life she and/or her kids want at all.

Casadena · October 2018

Does splitting custody generally mean 50/50 time spent? Idk, but if not, she could easily be moving out of a school district, but maybe she only has her kids on weekends? Maybe not, but something to think about.

I rode the bus for ~50 minutes every day growing up and really went entire summers before high school without seeing anyone but my family on a regular basis. I never had the "in-town" ease of neighborhood friends. I also shared a bedroom with my sister for most of our childhood.

Unless one or both of the kids has a disability or some other specific issue that would make this move unrealistic or damaging to them in some way, I think people are super over-reacting. Kids are fine in shared bedrooms, they adjust to new schools and people and living situations.

Some people get that worked up about potentially even moving a family to different but similar place bc gosh forbid they move kids away from their friends and familiarity. Sure it's important kids are put in social situations, but a lot of good and valuable things can come from the being alone or just with family occasionally too.

mrsconn23 · October 2018

Casadena said:

Does splitting custody generally mean 50/50 time spent? Idk, but if not, she could easily be moving out of a school district, but maybe she only has her kids on weekends? Maybe not, but something to think about.

A trend I've seen with friends divorcing in the last 10 or so years is to do 50/50 custody unless there are grave concerns about the fitness of one parent over the other OR one parent has a job that doesn't allow for that kind of split schedule (lots of travel for work, or like pilot, who can't predict their availability). It seems a lot of judges push for mediation to end in 50/50.

Also, my friend had to drag her ex-H to court because he wanted to fight her over which school district they were going to enroll the kids. He wanted the one in his town (where he and my friend are alums) and she wanted her district (our former district)...both are in the state's top 10, so it was apples to apples. She won because her stepkids were enrolled in her district and she could prove a) the established relationship between the 5 kids (her 2 and her H's 3) and b ) that her ex runs an unpredictable schedule (gives up a lot of parenting time for leisure travel).

So yeah, if LW's ex wants to pursue blocking her move citing custody reasons, they could and possibly be successful.

Casadena · October 2018

mrsconn23 said:

Casadena said:

Does splitting custody generally mean 50/50 time spent? Idk, but if not, she could easily be moving out of a school district, but maybe she only has her kids on weekends? Maybe not, but something to think about.

A trend I've seen with friends divorcing in the last 10 or so years is to do 50/50 custody unless there are grave concerns about the fitness of one parent over the other OR one parent has a job that doesn't allow for that kind of split schedule (lots of travel for work, or like pilot, who can't predict their availability). It seems a lot of judges push for mediation to end in 50/50.

Also, my friend had to drag her ex-H to court because he wanted to fight her over which school district they were going to enroll the kids. He wanted the one in his town (where he and my friend are alums) and she wanted her district (our former district)...both are in the state's top 10, so it was apples to apples. She won because her stepkids were enrolled in her district and she could prove a) the established relationship between the 5 kids (her 2 and her H's 3) and b ) that her ex runs an unpredictable schedule (gives up a lot of parenting time for leisure travel).

So yeah, if LW's ex wants to pursue blocking her move citing custody reasons, they could and possibly be successful.

That's what I figured (about 50/50). So my scenario is probably not correct, but I still think people are going way overboard with regard to the "damaging the children" and "isolation" stuff. PP's mentioned that this is the kids life too so they should get a say (I don't particularly agree with that) but you bring up a good point about the father. If he disagrees with the move, short of seeking a different custody agreement is there anything he can do? I say that bc it doesn't sound like anyone is concerned with her maternal fitness - but I am curious how he got joint custody if he was abusive. I clearly don't know much about divorce/custody battles...we're currently phasing out of the million friends weddings phase and only one close friend has gotten divorced (so far).

mrsconn23 · October 2018

Casadena said:

mrsconn23 said:

Casadena said:

Does splitting custody generally mean 50/50 time spent? Idk, but if not, she could easily be moving out of a school district, but maybe she only has her kids on weekends? Maybe not, but something to think about.

A trend I've seen with friends divorcing in the last 10 or so years is to do 50/50 custody unless there are grave concerns about the fitness of one parent over the other OR one parent has a job that doesn't allow for that kind of split schedule (lots of travel for work, or like pilot, who can't predict their availability). It seems a lot of judges push for mediation to end in 50/50.

Also, my friend had to drag her ex-H to court because he wanted to fight her over which school district they were going to enroll the kids. He wanted the one in his town (where he and my friend are alums) and she wanted her district (our former district)...both are in the state's top 10, so it was apples to apples. She won because her stepkids were enrolled in her district and she could prove a) the established relationship between the 5 kids (her 2 and her H's 3) and b ) that her ex runs an unpredictable schedule (gives up a lot of parenting time for leisure travel).

So yeah, if LW's ex wants to pursue blocking her move citing custody reasons, they could and possibly be successful.

That's what I figured (about 50/50). So my scenario is probably not correct, but I still think people are going way overboard with regard to the "damaging the children" and "isolation" stuff. PP's mentioned that this is the kids life too so they should get a say (I don't particularly agree with that) but you bring up a good point about the father. If he disagrees with the move, short of seeking a different custody agreement is there anything he can do? I say that bc it doesn't sound like anyone is concerned with her maternal fitness - but I am curious how he got joint custody if he was abusive. I clearly don't know much about divorce/custody battles...we're currently phasing out of the million friends weddings phase and only one close friend has gotten divorced (so far).

It's sooo... subjective. There's no hard and fast rules in family court.

Also, it's my understanding that judges may not take it into account as anything other than hearsay unless you have police or therapist reports/testimony (or other compelling documentation). Plus, it depends on your lawyer's competency and/or what they think will make you look good or bad to the court (so many things, while serious issues, can come off as tit for tat). Furthermore in many cases, they want you to resolve it via mediation and then you only go before the judge for them to ask you if you've come to an agreement and then they sign off on it.

charlotte989875 · October 2018

mrsconn23 said:

Casadena said:

mrsconn23 said:

Casadena said:

Does splitting custody generally mean 50/50 time spent? Idk, but if not, she could easily be moving out of a school district, but maybe she only has her kids on weekends? Maybe not, but something to think about.

A trend I've seen with friends divorcing in the last 10 or so years is to do 50/50 custody unless there are grave concerns about the fitness of one parent over the other OR one parent has a job that doesn't allow for that kind of split schedule (lots of travel for work, or like pilot, who can't predict their availability). It seems a lot of judges push for mediation to end in 50/50.

Also, my friend had to drag her ex-H to court because he wanted to fight her over which school district they were going to enroll the kids. He wanted the one in his town (where he and my friend are alums) and she wanted her district (our former district)...both are in the state's top 10, so it was apples to apples. She won because her stepkids were enrolled in her district and she could prove a) the established relationship between the 5 kids (her 2 and her H's 3) and b ) that her ex runs an unpredictable schedule (gives up a lot of parenting time for leisure travel).

So yeah, if LW's ex wants to pursue blocking her move citing custody reasons, they could and possibly be successful.

That's what I figured (about 50/50). So my scenario is probably not correct, but I still think people are going way overboard with regard to the "damaging the children" and "isolation" stuff. PP's mentioned that this is the kids life too so they should get a say (I don't particularly agree with that) but you bring up a good point about the father. If he disagrees with the move, short of seeking a different custody agreement is there anything he can do? I say that bc it doesn't sound like anyone is concerned with her maternal fitness - but I am curious how he got joint custody if he was abusive. I clearly don't know much about divorce/custody battles...we're currently phasing out of the million friends weddings phase and only one close friend has gotten divorced (so far).

It's sooo... subjective. There's no hard and fast rules in family court.

Also, it's my understanding that judges may not take it into account as anything other than hearsay unless you have police or therapist reports/testimony (or other compelling documentation). Plus, it depends on your lawyer's competency and/or what they think will make you look good or bad to the court (so many things, while serious issues, can come off as tit for tat). Furthermore in many cases, they want you to resolve it via mediation and then you only go before the judge for them to ask you if you've come to an agreement and then they sign off on it.

Often if the children were not abused directly even cases where a spouse is prosecuted and convicted of domestic violence (which doesn’t sound like is the case here) they are frequently given custody, even visits alone or overnights with children. And kids often (at least in my jurisdiction) can’t opt not to go until they are teenagers.

Why not buy the property, use it as a weekend home/retreat for now while everyone is transitioning? Or rent an apartment near where the kids lived until things settle a bit?

Unless the kids are excited for this; if they are then go for it. Unless the kids are really upset about this, I think it’s much ado about nothing. It’s not my cup of tea (although my H would love it), but im not living there.

Also the letter doesn’t say she’s homeschooling, just sounds like the kids won’t be super close to friends. Maybe that means logistics are harder, but that’s something tonwork out.

short+sassy · October 2018

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.

An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

ShesSoCold · October 2018

short+sassy said:

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.
An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

LOL after growing up in suburban Chicago, what LW is considering is EXACTLY what H and I think we want.

"Think" being the key word here, though, and we're going to rent in a town in the mountains before we go crazy. Because "I could do this every day" while on vacation is SO MUCH different than actually doing it every day.

mrsconn23 · October 2018

ShesSoCold said:

short+sassy said:

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.
An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

LOL after growing up in suburban Chicago, what LW is considering is EXACTLY what H and I think we want.

"Think" being the key word here, though, and we're going to rent in a town in the mountains before we go crazy. Because "I could do this every day" while on vacation is SO MUCH different than actually doing it every day.

TBH, we talk about how we miss living in a neighborhood from time to time. Yes, we back up to one...but it's clear we're not 'part' of it. The kiddo used to walk out our door and have 3-4 houses on our street he could go to and find kids to play with. DefConn does not have that same experience, unfortunately. But we love not living in a vinyl village and on top of our neighbors (especially our former next door neighbor, who was a total snatch). DH laments the convenience of our old area vs. here, but I actually have grown to love our new community. And where we lived before, I had lived since I moved here (as a 10th grader and before we moved to Indy, we lived in the Chicago 'burbs).

But DH's retirement dream is to either move west or have acreage in southern IN, KY, or TN. So...yeah.

charlotte989875 · October 2018

But given the state of the country right now I totally understand the desire to move to 40 acres in the middle of the forest. #justsayin

ShesSoCold · October 2018

mrsconn23 said:

ShesSoCold said:

short+sassy said:

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.
An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

LOL after growing up in suburban Chicago, what LW is considering is EXACTLY what H and I think we want.

"Think" being the key word here, though, and we're going to rent in a town in the mountains before we go crazy. Because "I could do this every day" while on vacation is SO MUCH different than actually doing it every day.

TBH, we talk about how we miss living in a neighborhood from time to time. Yes, we back up to one...but it's clear we're not 'part' of it. The kiddo used to walk out our door and have 3-4 houses on our street he could go to and find kids to play with. DefConn does not have that same experience, unfortunately. But we love not living in a vinyl village and on top of our neighbors (especially our former next door neighbor, who was a total snatch). DH laments the convenience of our old area vs. here, but I actually have grown to love our new community. And where we lived before, I had lived since I moved here (as a 10th grader and before we moved to Indy, we lived in the Chicago 'burbs).

But DH's retirement dream is to either move west or have acreage in southern IN, KY, or TN. So...yeah.

Yeah I can see that and I can see how different it would be for kids to grow up in a suburban sub division than on 40 acres in the middle of nowhere. If we wanted kids, I would want more of that neighborhood feel for them and we probably wouldn't be moving.

H, OTOH, would have LOVED to have grown up in the middle of nowhere and he DGAF about hanging out with the other neighborhood kids. He was riding his bike further away to fish. LOL.

After rereading the letter though, I agree with PPs that LW should wait a bit. She was 21 when she got married so I'm thinking it's unlikely that she lived alone as an adult. To go from your parents', to your husband's, to 40 acres is a pretty huge leap.

charlotte989875 · October 2018

ShesSoCold said:

mrsconn23 said:

ShesSoCold said:

short+sassy said:

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.
An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

LOL after growing up in suburban Chicago, what LW is considering is EXACTLY what H and I think we want.

"Think" being the key word here, though, and we're going to rent in a town in the mountains before we go crazy. Because "I could do this every day" while on vacation is SO MUCH different than actually doing it every day.

TBH, we talk about how we miss living in a neighborhood from time to time. Yes, we back up to one...but it's clear we're not 'part' of it. The kiddo used to walk out our door and have 3-4 houses on our street he could go to and find kids to play with. DefConn does not have that same experience, unfortunately. But we love not living in a vinyl village and on top of our neighbors (especially our former next door neighbor, who was a total snatch). DH laments the convenience of our old area vs. here, but I actually have grown to love our new community. And where we lived before, I had lived since I moved here (as a 10th grader and before we moved to Indy, we lived in the Chicago 'burbs).

But DH's retirement dream is to either move west or have acreage in southern IN, KY, or TN. So...yeah.

Yeah I can see that and I can see how different it would be for kids to grow up in a suburban sub division than on 40 acres in the middle of nowhere. If we wanted kids, I would want more of that neighborhood feel for them and we probably wouldn't be moving.

H, OTOH, would have LOVED to have grown up in the middle of nowhere and he DGAF about hanging out with the other neighborhood kids. He was riding his bike further away to fish. LOL.

After rereading the letter though, I agree with PPs that LW should wait a bit. She was 21 when she got married so I'm thinking it's unlikely that she lived alone as an adult. To go from your parents', to your husband's, to 40 acres is a pretty huge leap.

This is my H, too. The new house is in a village but we have 1.5 acres (a lot for the village!) and he still wishes we had more land I think. Even though we have a cabin in the middle of protected national forest 2 hours away.

After rereading I actually don’t see this as that big of a deal. I’ve lived in the mountains twice in my life (NH and then NC) granted I was an adult, but there were tons of people with kids. Some people lived way up in the hills. Sure it had its challenges but the kids were not being harmed and they had other adventures/opportunities many kids don’t have. I think just because someone’s version of happiness doesn’t match yours doesn’t mean they’re wrong. And again, if the kids are in school and they have access to friends/socializing/and family it’s not wrong.

short+sassy · October 2018

charlotte989875 said:

ShesSoCold said:

mrsconn23 said:

ShesSoCold said:

short+sassy said:

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.
An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

LOL after growing up in suburban Chicago, what LW is considering is EXACTLY what H and I think we want.

"Think" being the key word here, though, and we're going to rent in a town in the mountains before we go crazy. Because "I could do this every day" while on vacation is SO MUCH different than actually doing it every day.

TBH, we talk about how we miss living in a neighborhood from time to time. Yes, we back up to one...but it's clear we're not 'part' of it. The kiddo used to walk out our door and have 3-4 houses on our street he could go to and find kids to play with. DefConn does not have that same experience, unfortunately. But we love not living in a vinyl village and on top of our neighbors (especially our former next door neighbor, who was a total snatch). DH laments the convenience of our old area vs. here, but I actually have grown to love our new community. And where we lived before, I had lived since I moved here (as a 10th grader and before we moved to Indy, we lived in the Chicago 'burbs).

But DH's retirement dream is to either move west or have acreage in southern IN, KY, or TN. So...yeah.

Yeah I can see that and I can see how different it would be for kids to grow up in a suburban sub division than on 40 acres in the middle of nowhere. If we wanted kids, I would want more of that neighborhood feel for them and we probably wouldn't be moving.

H, OTOH, would have LOVED to have grown up in the middle of nowhere and he DGAF about hanging out with the other neighborhood kids. He was riding his bike further away to fish. LOL.

After rereading the letter though, I agree with PPs that LW should wait a bit. She was 21 when she got married so I'm thinking it's unlikely that she lived alone as an adult. To go from your parents', to your husband's, to 40 acres is a pretty huge leap.

This is my H, too. The new house is in a village but we have 1.5 acres (a lot for the village!) and he still wishes we had more land I think. Even though we have a cabin in the middle of protected national forest 2 hours away.

After rereading I actually don’t see this as that big of a deal. I’ve lived in the mountains twice in my life (NH and then NC) granted I was an adult, but there were tons of people with kids. Some people lived way up in the hills. Sure it had its challenges but the kids were not being harmed and they had other adventures/opportunities many kids don’t have. I think just because someone’s version of happiness doesn’t match yours doesn’t mean they’re wrong. And again, if the kids are in school and they have access to friends/socializing/and family it’s not wrong.

I do think her family needs to mind their own business. Unless maybe we're talking like something out of those Alaska homestead shows, lol, I don't think there is anything wrong or harmful for the kids with her plan.

I just also don't think, for her own good, that she should make any major decisions right now. Whatever they might be. As in, rent, don't buy. At least for now.

charlotte989875 · October 2018

short+sassy said:

charlotte989875 said:

ShesSoCold said:

mrsconn23 said:

ShesSoCold said:

short+sassy said:

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.
An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

LOL after growing up in suburban Chicago, what LW is considering is EXACTLY what H and I think we want.

"Think" being the key word here, though, and we're going to rent in a town in the mountains before we go crazy. Because "I could do this every day" while on vacation is SO MUCH different than actually doing it every day.

TBH, we talk about how we miss living in a neighborhood from time to time. Yes, we back up to one...but it's clear we're not 'part' of it. The kiddo used to walk out our door and have 3-4 houses on our street he could go to and find kids to play with. DefConn does not have that same experience, unfortunately. But we love not living in a vinyl village and on top of our neighbors (especially our former next door neighbor, who was a total snatch). DH laments the convenience of our old area vs. here, but I actually have grown to love our new community. And where we lived before, I had lived since I moved here (as a 10th grader and before we moved to Indy, we lived in the Chicago 'burbs).

But DH's retirement dream is to either move west or have acreage in southern IN, KY, or TN. So...yeah.

Yeah I can see that and I can see how different it would be for kids to grow up in a suburban sub division than on 40 acres in the middle of nowhere. If we wanted kids, I would want more of that neighborhood feel for them and we probably wouldn't be moving.

H, OTOH, would have LOVED to have grown up in the middle of nowhere and he DGAF about hanging out with the other neighborhood kids. He was riding his bike further away to fish. LOL.

After rereading the letter though, I agree with PPs that LW should wait a bit. She was 21 when she got married so I'm thinking it's unlikely that she lived alone as an adult. To go from your parents', to your husband's, to 40 acres is a pretty huge leap.

This is my H, too. The new house is in a village but we have 1.5 acres (a lot for the village!) and he still wishes we had more land I think. Even though we have a cabin in the middle of protected national forest 2 hours away.

After rereading I actually don’t see this as that big of a deal. I’ve lived in the mountains twice in my life (NH and then NC) granted I was an adult, but there were tons of people with kids. Some people lived way up in the hills. Sure it had its challenges but the kids were not being harmed and they had other adventures/opportunities many kids don’t have. I think just because someone’s version of happiness doesn’t match yours doesn’t mean they’re wrong. And again, if the kids are in school and they have access to friends/socializing/and family it’s not wrong.

I do think her family needs to mind their own business. Unless maybe we're talking like something out of those Alaska homestead shows, lol, I don't think there is anything wrong or harmful for the kids with her plan.
I just also don't think, for her own good, that she should make any major decisions right now. Whatever they might be. As in, rent, don't buy. At least for now.

But not to be too contentious, why?

She’s a grown woman man who just got out of what sounds like a terrible marriage. She has the money (presumably), she has a job, why shouldn’t she pursue living how and where she wants? Sounds like she hasn’t been able to do that for many years.

I think some of the comments she’s getting from the family (and maybe some here) sound like “oh you don’t know what you’re doing, we know better”. But if she’s not hurting her kids, she has the money to do it, why shouldn’t she?

ETA: Maybe this is too snarky, but I’m so tired of people telling women (directly or indirectly) that they don’t know what they’re doing or acting like they know better. It’s condescending. And I definitely don’t mean this toward you @short+sassy! I know you don’t think like that!

VarunaTT · October 2018

You know, lots of professional advice I got during my divorce was not making any "major" decisions for a year afterwards. This advice is simply not realistic. I got a divorce, but life had to go on. I had to work, I needed a place to live, I had to replace my car, etc. Big decisions had to be made b/c I had just upended 100% of my life and done a 180 on things. She's got to do this too. I get trying to minimize the damage to the kids, but she HAS to live somewhere. It sounds like she left her marital home or is interested in leaving it. And trust me, the day I stepped foot into my own apartment and knew my exH had never breathed the air in it and that it was all mine...it lifted a burden I didn't know I was carrying. I get where she's coming from, completely.

short+sassy · October 2018

charlotte989875 said:

short+sassy said:

charlotte989875 said:

This is my H, too. The new house is in a village but we have 1.5 acres (a lot for the village!) and he still wishes we had more land I think. Even though we have a cabin in the middle of protected national forest 2 hours away.

After rereading I actually don’t see this as that big of a deal. I’ve lived in the mountains twice in my life (NH and then NC) granted I was an adult, but there were tons of people with kids. Some people lived way up in the hills. Sure it had its challenges but the kids were not being harmed and they had other adventures/opportunities many kids don’t have. I think just because someone’s version of happiness doesn’t match yours doesn’t mean they’re wrong. And again, if the kids are in school and they have access to friends/socializing/and family it’s not wrong.

I do think her family needs to mind their own business. Unless maybe we're talking like something out of those Alaska homestead shows, lol, I don't think there is anything wrong or harmful for the kids with her plan.
I just also don't think, for her own good, that she should make any major decisions right now. Whatever they might be. As in, rent, don't buy. At least for now.

But not to be too contentious, why?

She’s a grown woman man who just got out of what sounds like a terrible marriage. She has the money (presumably), she has a job, why shouldn’t she pursue living how and where she wants? Sounds like she hasn’t been able to do that for many years.

I think some of the comments she’s getting from the family (and maybe some here) sound like “oh you don’t know what you’re doing, we know better”. But if she’s not hurting her kids, she has the money to do it, why shouldn’t she?

ETA: Maybe this is too snarky, but I’m so tired of people telling women (directly or indirectly) that they don’t know what they’re doing or acting like they know better. It’s condescending. And I definitely don’t mean this toward you @short+sassy! I know you don’t think like that!

In general, I just don't think it is a good idea for anyone to make major, fairly permanent decisions after a big upheaval in life. Whether that is a divorce, a death in the family, or something else. That is usually an emotionally fragile time for people...and I include men equally in that!...and they're more likely to have their thoughts and feelings going every which way.

Also, when it comes to moving to a very different type of area or city, I always recommend people rent first if that is possible. Maybe they find out they hate the new city/area and don't want to lay down permanent roots. If nothing else, they'll get a vibe for different neighborhoods/convenience and can make better choices for themselves on where they want to buy.

FWIW, I definitely think she should pursue it! If this is her dream, she should follow it and see if the reality matches the fantasy. But just don't actually buy property, until she knows that for sure.

-------------------

This reminds me a little bit of my own fantasy of moving to Lake Tahoe when I retire. I was already envisioning the kind of house I wanted. And the surroundings. I was checking out real estate prices to roughly plan for the future. And then we went there on vacation again...

While we were there, I envisioned the day to day, nitty gritty details of what it would be like to live there. To a bit of sadness and disappointment, I realized I wouldn't like it at all. For as world famous as it is, it's actually a small city/large town. And there isn't much around it for 100s of miles. I'd feel suffocated in the great outdoors. Most of our restaurant meals were really overpriced and mediocre, at best. That was the final nail in the coffin and I said good-bye to that dream, lol. But, luckily, long before I would have foolishly sacrificed so much to buy a $700+K house!

Edited to add: But I do plan to visit Tahoe more often after I retire! It's still one of my all-time favorite, most beautiful place I've ever been to. I'll just live for 1-2 weeks at a time in someone else's AirBnB, lol.

charlotte989875 · October 2018

As always @VarunaTT said things more eloquently than I did.

LW has to make decisions (big ones) and who says she has thought this out, visited the land/area, thought out schools, planned for work, etc?

Just because its a big decision in an emotional time doesn’t mean she hasn’t done her due diligence.

climbingsingle · October 2018

charlotte989875 said:

short+sassy said:

charlotte989875 said:

ShesSoCold said:

mrsconn23 said:

ShesSoCold said:

short+sassy said:

I realize it is 100% my opinion and can understand why others might feel differently, but I would absolutely despise what the LW wants, lol.
An isolated cabin in the woods for an occasional weekend retreat? Sounds awesome! Living there all the time? That would be in one of my personal circles of hell.

LOL after growing up in suburban Chicago, what LW is considering is EXACTLY what H and I think we want.

"Think" being the key word here, though, and we're going to rent in a town in the mountains before we go crazy. Because "I could do this every day" while on vacation is SO MUCH different than actually doing it every day.

TBH, we talk about how we miss living in a neighborhood from time to time. Yes, we back up to one...but it's clear we're not 'part' of it. The kiddo used to walk out our door and have 3-4 houses on our street he could go to and find kids to play with. DefConn does not have that same experience, unfortunately. But we love not living in a vinyl village and on top of our neighbors (especially our former next door neighbor, who was a total snatch). DH laments the convenience of our old area vs. here, but I actually have grown to love our new community. And where we lived before, I had lived since I moved here (as a 10th grader and before we moved to Indy, we lived in the Chicago 'burbs).

But DH's retirement dream is to either move west or have acreage in southern IN, KY, or TN. So...yeah.

Yeah I can see that and I can see how different it would be for kids to grow up in a suburban sub division than on 40 acres in the middle of nowhere. If we wanted kids, I would want more of that neighborhood feel for them and we probably wouldn't be moving.

H, OTOH, would have LOVED to have grown up in the middle of nowhere and he DGAF about hanging out with the other neighborhood kids. He was riding his bike further away to fish. LOL.

After rereading the letter though, I agree with PPs that LW should wait a bit. She was 21 when she got married so I'm thinking it's unlikely that she lived alone as an adult. To go from your parents', to your husband's, to 40 acres is a pretty huge leap.

This is my H, too. The new house is in a village but we have 1.5 acres (a lot for the village!) and he still wishes we had more land I think. Even though we have a cabin in the middle of protected national forest 2 hours away.

After rereading I actually don’t see this as that big of a deal. I’ve lived in the mountains twice in my life (NH and then NC) granted I was an adult, but there were tons of people with kids. Some people lived way up in the hills. Sure it had its challenges but the kids were not being harmed and they had other adventures/opportunities many kids don’t have. I think just because someone’s version of happiness doesn’t match yours doesn’t mean they’re wrong. And again, if the kids are in school and they have access to friends/socializing/and family it’s not wrong.

I do think her family needs to mind their own business. Unless maybe we're talking like something out of those Alaska homestead shows, lol, I don't think there is anything wrong or harmful for the kids with her plan.
I just also don't think, for her own good, that she should make any major decisions right now. Whatever they might be. As in, rent, don't buy. At least for now.

But not to be too contentious, why?

She’s a grown woman man who just got out of what sounds like a terrible marriage. She has the money (presumably), she has a job, why shouldn’t she pursue living how and where she wants? Sounds like she hasn’t been able to do that for many years.

I think some of the comments she’s getting from the family (and maybe some here) sound like “oh you don’t know what you’re doing, we know better”. But if she’s not hurting her kids, she has the money to do it, why shouldn’t she?

ETA: Maybe this is too snarky, but I’m so tired of people telling women (directly or indirectly) that they don’t know what they’re doing or acting like they know better. It’s condescending. And I definitely don’t mean this toward you @short+sassy! I know you don’t think like that!

I agree completely with all of this!

ShesSoCold · October 2018

charlotte989875 said:

As always @VarunaTT said things more eloquently than I did.

LW has to make decisions (big ones) and who says she has thought this out, visited the land/area, thought out schools, planned for work, etc?

Just because its a big decision in an emotional time doesn’t mean she hasn’t done her due diligence.

Ya know, I've kept going back and forth. My first read of the letter, I was all, "as long as everyone is taken care of, do you, girl."

Then I did the math on her age and thought maybe she's being a little drastic.

But you never know unless you just do it. Jump in with both feet. She never said her family had expressed safety concerns or anything like that, just that the kids will have to share a bedroom and they won't be close to friends. So, with that, I'm back to "do you, girl".

Had I done what she's doing now, when I first wanted to, I'd already be 5-6 years into my mortgage on that 40 acres.

I want to live wild and free and my family is dragging me for it.

Re: I want to live wild and free and my family is dragging me for it.

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