I wonder how LW would feel if she was excluded?

mrsconn23 · February 2019

Dear Prudence,

My husband and I confided in my sister-in-law and her husband about our fertility issues. A couple of months later, she got everyone together for a surprise pregnancy announcement, which included me. I felt like I had been punched in the gut, left immediately, and was inconsolable after. I felt like inviting me was extremely inconsiderate and in bad taste. I’m undergoing in vitro fertilization and have avoided her throughout her pregnancy. She will have her baby any day now, and I don’t feel like I can bear being around her until we are expecting our own. This diagnosis has been extremely painful, and I don’t know that I will ever completely get over it unless we have our own child. Am I correct in feeling her surprise announcement was insensitive? Does she owe me an apology? How do I better cope with these terrible feelings?

—Struggling Sister

CharmedPam · February 2019

Ummmm so SIL can’t be happy that she’s having a baby? Has to hide it? I don’t think the party was “in your face” at all - and yes I do think LW is being a bit over sensitive.

ShesSoCold · February 2019

Yeah, it's not like these are your neighbor's landscaping guy's niece and husband - this is your husband's sister (I think)!!! It would have been much weirder to have been excluded and there would have been the "Hey, where's Dan and Danielle?" and how should the SIL answer that?

I feel bad for LW and this is an awful spot for her but she is going to need understand that other people's lives are not on hold.

LW is taking this way too personally. She worded it like the SIL got pregnant and planned this announcement just to one-up LW. Which I highly doubt is the case.

banana468 · February 2019

OK - I think the SIL was insensitive but without understanding what her B and SIL are going through perhaps she just didn't "get" it.

Stress of infertility can be comparable to people going through cancer treatments (the stress - I'm not comparing what it does to the body). And a lack of sensitivity to this that's shown by many (Just have more sex is a statement that just burns my ass) that I think the SIL's brother should sit with his sister and TALK to her.

But this is a two way street. The LW also needs to know that if she hangs out with fertile people in committed relationships there's a chance more baby announcements are on the horizon. LW needs to see a therapist because she essentially said that she wants to live in her own reality bubble until her own wishes come to fruition. And such a practice is unrealistic and toxic. She needs to come up with coping mechanisms here because there are multiple people including this unborn child who are being punished all because she's acting like a petulant child in reaction to her stress. Infertility sucks. It's not fair and it's a crappy feeling to think that other people are getting what you think you deserve.

But it's also life and being stompy and taking your ball and going home isn't going to endear you to anyone.

ILoveBeachMusic · February 2019

My DD underwent IVF. She had several friends that became pregnant during that time. One of them in particular was extremely sensitive to DD about it. She told her privately about her pregnancy before announcing it to their "group" of friends. DD told her she was so very happy for her - and was. Shortly afterwards DD became pregnant! Life happens and people need to understand that. Perhaps the SIL should have given LW a heads up so that the announcement wasn't a surprise, but I don't think it was wrong to invite her to the party.

cupcait927 · February 2019

In this situation, knowing that SIL knew about LW's infertility issues, I think it SIL should've reached out to LW prior to the announcement and told her in person and give LW the option to be at the gathering or not. I think letting LW find out in the manner that she did is slightly insensitive on SIL's part. I may also be a little more sympathetic to LW than others because H and I have been trying for almost a year and so far no luck. I'm a lot more emotional about it than I thought I'd be so I can understand where LW is coming from, but I also think that maybe some therapy to help her handle her emotions towards the pregnancy are in order, since she will be around SIL and this baby as they are family.

banana468 · February 2019

cupcait927 said:

In this situation, knowing that SIL knew about LW's infertility issues, I think it SIL should've reached out to LW prior to the announcement and told her in person and give LW the option to be at the gathering or not. I think letting LW find out in the manner that she did is slightly insensitive on SIL's part. I may also be a little more sympathetic to LW than others because H and I have been trying for almost a year and so far no luck. I'm a lot more emotional about it than I thought I'd be so I can understand where LW is coming from, but I also think that maybe some therapy to help her handle her emotions towards the pregnancy are in order, since she will be around SIL and this baby as they are family.

Totally agree. The SIL was really insensitive here for not thinking of the infertility issues.

If I knew someone had major relationship issues I wouldn't invite them to a surprise engagement announcement without clearing it first either. It's called not being insensitive.

MesmrEwe · February 2019

FWIW, SIL is likely a clueless one when it comes to infertility, that said, SIL isn't expected to manage LW's feelings on eggshells nor LW get jealous rage because SIL got PG first. She sounds like one who will be the aunt who puts down everything the kid does until she has her own in which case she will be the baby only poops unicorn glitter and can do no wrong...

mrsconn23 · February 2019

I agree that the SIL was insensitive to the LW. However, I think LW definitely needs to get a hold of her feelings ASAP because even if SHE cannot deal with SIL until she's successfully pregnant (or a parent by other means), it's still her husband's sister and his niece or nephew. I wonder how he feels about it.

Also, I think there was a way to have the conversation about feelings with SIL/BIL immediately after the event without being accusatory and just asking for some empathy. Letting it fester like this and LW wrapping herself in her self-righteousness about the situation isn't a good way to deal with it.

Furthermore, was infertility talk a one time thing or an ongoing conversation? How in-depth was that conversation? Because if LW and her H were, "yeah, so we're having issues getting pregnant and exploring our options. but we're hopeful!" then that's way different than an ongoing conversation about the struggle of infertility and the emotional toll it does have on people who are going through it.

charlotte989875 · February 2019

I feel like both sides here need to be a little more understanding. I don’t think SIL should have surprise announced this to LW (a call/text/private sharing would have been way better) but I also don’t think SIL owes LW an apology.

LW has to understand the SIL getting pregnant and announcing it isn’t anything she’s doing to LW to upset her. She can’t stop living her life (and LW shouldn’t expect her to). If LW can’t be around baby related things right now, that’s fine but she also can’t expect other people not to celebrate/welcome a child.

I think it might be time LW does some counseling around her diagnosis. If she’s struggling with these feelings she needs to work out how to cope.

CharmedPam · February 2019

Yeah but something tells me even if she had a heads up, she’d still feel this way. Another issue entirely is she doesnt want to be around the baby until she has her own. Yes it would have been nice for SIL to mention it before but maybe she thought it would be a cute idea to surprise everyone about it at the same time? She didn’t think. I do that A LOT. But doesnt seem like a huge faux pas to me.

VarunaTT · February 2019

Dealing with infertility issues with friends and family, is really difficult. It's not something that is frequently discussed in real life and how to handle the issues surrounding it, from all sides.

So yeah, I think SIL was insensitive. I can also see SIL waffling all over the place about which decision would be the most insensitive to her SIL's feelings. And I think LW is being a little overly sensitive, even though I understand why. I don't see either SIL or LW being able to have a good conversation about this though, just based on the facts of the letter (asking if she's "owed" an apology), so I think LW should just work on healing herself, through therapy or other means.

lovesclimbing · February 2019

I don't know that there was a good way to share, because I absolutely do not think the SIL should have been expected to give the LW a heads up ahead of time. I see this advice all the time over on TB, and I think it's wrong. The SIL and brother wanted to announce to the family at the same time. Even if they know the LW really well and have a great relationship, they have no way of knowing that the LW won't let things slip. (And I also see plenty of stories over on TB of people complaining or asking how to deal with family members who don't keep the secret.) And I don't even necessarily mean LW deliberately blabbing although that could happen. It could happen by accident or just not thinking ahead.

This summer, we told our immediate family when we were expecting around six weeks because we were staying temporarily with my in-laws, and I really couldn't hide not feeling well. But we were waiting for 12 weeks to tell other people, and we'd told my ILs this. Just days later, I was at the store with my MiL, who had a short convo with an acquaintance. Of course, my MiL mentioned that our daughter, her granddaughter, was also here and she was excited, which led to the acquaintance asking if she had any more grandkids. I was totally shocked when instead of saying "no" or even "no announcements right now," my MiL hemmed and hawed and "well, umm, haha, nothing ... we ... maybe ... well, I suppose who knows ... nothing's public" with plenty of knowing nods! I was quite upset because it's a small town and news flies around pretty fast. She as much as flat out said that either I or my SIL (which this acquaintance may not even know, and I was standing right there, of course) was expecting.

So either the SIL and brother have to run the risk of the news leaking before they're ready to share and potentially offending people who (in my opinion, if they're close family, rightly) expected to hear such news directly instead of through the grape vine. Or they could not invite the LW to the party and risk offending the LW because there are some people who struggle with infertility who would be upset by people assuming they wouldn't want to attend the party. Or they can tell the LW privately a couple hours before the party so there's no/little chance for news to spread, which may upset them for the same reasons as above if they've already heard about the party and thought they'd been deliberately excluded, and then they may not be able to come even if they wanted to on such short notice.

banana468 · February 2019

lovesclimbing said:

I don't know that there was a good way to share, because I absolutely do not think the SIL should have been expected to give the LW a heads up ahead of time. I see this advice all the time over on TB, and I think it's wrong. The SIL and brother wanted to announce to the family at the same time. Even if they know the LW really well and have a great relationship, they have no way of knowing that the LW won't let things slip. (And I also see plenty of stories over on TB of people complaining or asking how to deal with family members who don't keep the secret.) And I don't even necessarily mean LW deliberately blabbing although that could happen. It could happen by accident or just not thinking ahead.

This summer, we told our immediate family when we were expecting around six weeks because we were staying temporarily with my in-laws, and I really couldn't hide not feeling well. But we were waiting for 12 weeks to tell other people, and we'd told my ILs this. Just days later, I was at the store with my MiL, who had a short convo with an acquaintance. Of course, my MiL mentioned that our daughter, her granddaughter, was also here and she was excited, which led to the acquaintance asking if she had any more grandkids. I was totally shocked when instead of saying "no" or even "no announcements right now," my MiL hemmed and hawed and "well, umm, haha, nothing ... we ... maybe ... well, I suppose who knows ... nothing's public" with plenty of knowing nods! I was quite upset because it's a small town and news flies around pretty fast. She as much as flat out said that either I or my SIL (which this acquaintance may not even know, and I was standing right there, of course) was expecting.

So either the SIL and brother have to run the risk of the news leaking before they're ready to share and potentially offending people who (in my opinion, if they're close family, rightly) expected to hear such news directly instead of through the grape vine. Or they could not invite the LW to the party and risk offending the LW because there are some people who struggle with infertility who would be upset by people assuming they wouldn't want to attend the party. Or they can tell the LW privately a couple hours before the party so there's no/little chance for news to spread, which may upset them for the same reasons as above if they've already heard about the party and thought they'd been deliberately excluded, and then they may not be able to come even if they wanted to on such short notice.

Or they opt to not have a party. Or they don't turn their reproductive habits into a public spectacle. Or they trust people to not open their mouths and share secrets.

Sorry - but just because your MIL is a blabbermouth in no way means I think the SIL couldn't have been sensitive to this issue. I've personally seen it work really well when the mom to be talks to the person suffering from infertility one on one. IMO it's reserved for the immediate family members (I'm not going to call DH's cousin struggling with infertility if DH and I expect a 3rd) but I'd sure as hell would call up a sister or brother (in-law) or a good friend ) so that they're not hit with that information in a group setting forcing them to pretend to be super excited when they may be holding back tears.

The rest of the LW's behavior is on her but I do think SIL screwed up the announcement.

flantastic · February 2019

IMO, thoughtless is not entirely the same as wrong. My SIL was super considerate about this last pregnancy, and did tell me in advance of a trip we had planned where questions would have been raised. I do think that is a kindness that you should be willing to offer your family and friends if you can, but not everyone realizes that's a good idea if they haven't gone through it.

At some point you still have to deal with the fact that other people get to have kids even if you don't. Sometimes you get blindsided with stupid "surprise" announcements. Relatedly, I don't think everything needs to be a production, so I don't think that SIL would have been deprived of something had she not gotten to make a party-based surprise announcement to all.

If all LW could muster at the party was "Congratulations" and then made an excuse to leave... then that's when I think SIL or anyone else would be wrong if s/he were upset about that.

But there's no argument that she was thoughtless. LW can think she's insensitive, but also not be owed an apology. Counseling would definitely be a good idea, if only for how to cope with what to do when people are inevitably insensitive or worse.

mrsconn23 · February 2019

flantastic said:

But there's no argument that she was thoughtless. LW can think she's insensitive, but also not be owed an apology. Counseling would definitely be a good idea, if only for how to cope with what to do when people are inevitably insensitive or worse.

Yes. Also, does an apology that you've demanded from someone mean anything?

Furthermore if she's basically avoided SIL with no explanation for the duration of SIL's pregnancy because she took how the announcement came as a personal affront, I'm not sure how LW can expect an apology at this point. She's essentially not allowed for one with her behavior since.

I'm sympathetic to people who have struggles. But weaponizing them against people makes you an asshole. I'm not saying LW has done that yet, but I do think her idea of basically not having a relationship with her SIL and future niece/nephew until LW has a child of their own is definitely a outsized punishment for the actual 'offense'.

ShesSoCold · February 2019

The fact that LW uses words like "inconsolable" and says she doesn't think she can bear to see her niece or nephew, makes me think that she may not have handled it any better had SIL let her know earlier. And even without the normal risk of letting a secret out like PP mentioned, if LW is this upset about it, she would be upset, party or not. So now SIL would be asking her to not only keep a secret - one that is devastating for LW, but also to put on a happy face and pretend there's nothing. I think that's a lot.

I agree that a huge announcement production is a bit much, even if there weren't fertility issues in the immediate family. But if they're the type of people that like that kind of thing (like a lot of people in this social media era), I don't think they're wrong for going about their business and having their party. A lot of people love these "scrapbook" moments and the SIL was probably super excited to share her news with her family. I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, how many ridiculous over-the-top pregnancy and sex announcements have we all seen on facebook, each one trying to be "better" than the last? It's not my personal cup of tea but I know people who literally have planned their facebook announcement before even conceiving. It's a big deal to people and I don't think that should be taken from SIL and BIL if they want it.

As horrible as this must be for LW, she needs to get herself some coping mechanisms. Because she could be headed down a very long hard road and locking herself in her house isn't going to do anything but cause her more problems.

Edited because I'm not a jerk (in this instance).

Edited again to clarify that in my paragraph above I'm referring to IF there was a big to-do with the announcement. I, too, read the letter as though it was a family party/gathering at the house and not some giant banquet hall thing. But my point was that even if it was, it's not up to us or LW to tell these people they can't celebrate their pregnancy.

banana468 · February 2019

I think the LW is far more in the wrong here and needs major therapy.

In any situation where the person struggling with infertility was told ahead of time what's going on life went on. Pregnancy progressed and babies came and they were loved.

This LW is trying to be in her own bubble until she gets what she wants and that's neither intelligent nor realistic.

My only point is that SOME semblance of sensitivity is something that I think the SIL should have exercised.

kerbohl · February 2019

LW just says that it was a surprise pregnancy announcement ... do we know it was a big production? Or did SILt get the family together for dinner and then say that they got everyone together to say that they were expecting?

ShesSoCold · February 2019

kerbohl said:

LW just says that it was a surprise pregnancy announcement ... do we know it was a big production? Or did SILt get the family together for dinner and then say that they got everyone together to say that they were expecting?

Oh GOOD POINT!!!!!!!! Yes!

MyNameIsNot · February 2019

ShesSoCold said:

The fact that LW uses words like "inconsolable" and says she doesn't think she can bear to see her niece or nephew, makes me think that she may not have handled it any better had SIL let her know earlier. And even without the normal risk of letting a secret out like PP mentioned, if LW is this upset about it, she would be upset, party or not. So now SIL would be asking her to not only keep a secret - one that is devastating for LW, but also to put on a happy face and pretend there's nothing. I think that's a lot.

I agree that a huge announcement production is a bit much, even if there weren't fertility issues in the immediate family. But if they're the type of people that like that kind of thing (like a lot of people in this social media era), I don't think they're wrong for going about their business and having their party. A lot of people love these "scrapbook" moments and the SIL was probably super excited to share her news with her family. I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, how many ridiculous over-the-top pregnancy and gender sex announcements have we all seen on facebook, each one trying to be "better" than the last? It's not my personal cup of tea but I know people who literally have planned their facebook announcement before even conceiving. It's a big deal to people and I don't think that should be taken from SIL and BIL if they want it.

As horrible as this must be for LW, she needs to get herself some coping mechanisms. Because she could be headed down a very long hard road and locking herself in her house isn't going to do anything but cause her more problems.

FTFY. Sorry, it just drives me crazy.

And she says "got everyone together". That's open to interpretation, but in my experience, when I say my sister got everyone together for nephew's whatever, I mean immediate family on both sides. If I'm taking about something with cousins and friends, I'd say my sister threw a party. It's not clear, but I'm not reading this as SIL rented a hall and invited 100 people to announce the pregnancy. It may not have been that over-the-top.

ShesSoCold · February 2019

MyNameIsNot said:

ShesSoCold said:

The fact that LW uses words like "inconsolable" and says she doesn't think she can bear to see her niece or nephew, makes me think that she may not have handled it any better had SIL let her know earlier. And even without the normal risk of letting a secret out like PP mentioned, if LW is this upset about it, she would be upset, party or not. So now SIL would be asking her to not only keep a secret - one that is devastating for LW, but also to put on a happy face and pretend there's nothing. I think that's a lot.

I agree that a huge announcement production is a bit much, even if there weren't fertility issues in the immediate family. But if they're the type of people that like that kind of thing (like a lot of people in this social media era), I don't think they're wrong for going about their business and having their party. A lot of people love these "scrapbook" moments and the SIL was probably super excited to share her news with her family. I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, how many ridiculous over-the-top pregnancy and gender sex announcements have we all seen on facebook, each one trying to be "better" than the last? It's not my personal cup of tea but I know people who literally have planned their facebook announcement before even conceiving. It's a big deal to people and I don't think that should be taken from SIL and BIL if they want it.

As horrible as this must be for LW, she needs to get herself some coping mechanisms. Because she could be headed down a very long hard road and locking herself in her house isn't going to do anything but cause her more problems.

FTFY. Sorry, it just drives me crazy.

And she says "got everyone together". That's open to interpretation, but in my experience, when I say my sister got everyone together for nephew's whatever, I mean immediate family on both sides. If I'm taking about something with cousins and friends, I'd say my sister threw a party. It's not clear, but I'm not reading this as SIL rented a hall and invited 100 people to announce the pregnancy. It may not have been that over-the-top.

No, don;t be! Thank you!! If I'm never reminded, I won't know I'm still effing this up.

banana468 · February 2019

Yeah I'm not reading it as a giant hall but I also roll my eyes at some mild subterfuge even if it's "Cookout at the Brown's on the 15th! Bring the wife and kids!" makes it sound like this was a group gathered to announce something at the same time with no notification on what was coming. And that was done after there was knowledge that someone in the room was struggling with infertility and that person's struggle with achieving what this person had was not met with sensitivity.

SIL may not have been wrong on paper but I think it lacked tact.

OurWildKingdom · February 2019

SIL may have been a little tactless, but what’s done is done. LW is way more in the wrong and owes SIL and BIL (and her H, too) an apology.

Casadena · February 2019

I totally understand being a little jealous/angry/disappointed it hasn't happened for you. It really does feel like getting punched in the gut every time I hear about a new pregnancy or see all the adorable baby pictures in my social media feeds. But you can feel that way and still be extremely happy for the people having babies. Just because LW is having trouble doesn't mean that other people need to hide their joy to spare her feelings.

I don't think SIL owed LW a heads up of any kind. It may have been nice, but I agree with PP's that given LW's level of crazy I don't think it would have helped. I also assumed that "got everyone together" was a small immediate family gathering and not an over the top party although it's definitely up for interpretation.

For me personally, I would be mortified if someone went out of their way to tell me they were pregnant to try to spare my feelings. I would feel like that was more offensive, honestly. But I know everyone dealing with IF is different, but I would hate that so much. IF is devastating, but it's not unique, and I don't' want to feel condescended to with special private announcements (which is definitely how I would feel - obviously other people feel that it would be the nice and sensitive thing to do).

LW is way over the top and needs therapy.

banana468 · February 2019

Oh - the more I read it the more I wonder if the LW is.....so high maintenance that people are tired of kowtowing to her antics. So without knowing the backstory maybe the lack of tact is because the SIL might describe LW as....self-absorbed?

downtondiva · February 2019

LW needs more help than Prudie can give her. I don't doubt for a second that it's painful to see other people having babies when you are dealing with infertility, but it's not healthy to spend your whole life avoiding and resenting people who have what you don't. She needs to go to therapy and learn how to deal with this now, because it's a problem that isn't going to go away. There are probably going to be other people in her life having children, and she can't expect them to feel guilty or act indifferent about it for her sake. And she also shouldn't distance herself from the people who are most likely to be there for her when she's going through this difficult time, and some of those friends and loved ones may be people with kids.

STARMOON44 · February 2019

lovesclimbing said:

I don't know that there was a good way to share, because I absolutely do not think the SIL should have been expected to give the LW a heads up ahead of time. I see this advice all the time over on TB, and I think it's wrong. The SIL and brother wanted to announce to the family at the same time. Even if they know the LW really well and have a great relationship, they have no way of knowing that the LW won't let things slip. (And I also see plenty of stories over on TB of people complaining or asking how to deal with family members who don't keep the secret.) And I don't even necessarily mean LW deliberately blabbing although that could happen. It could happen by accident or just not thinking ahead.

This summer, we told our immediate family when we were expecting around six weeks because we were staying temporarily with my in-laws, and I really couldn't hide not feeling well. But we were waiting for 12 weeks to tell other people, and we'd told my ILs this. Just days later, I was at the store with my MiL, who had a short convo with an acquaintance. Of course, my MiL mentioned that our daughter, her granddaughter, was also here and she was excited, which led to the acquaintance asking if she had any more grandkids. I was totally shocked when instead of saying "no" or even "no announcements right now," my MiL hemmed and hawed and "well, umm, haha, nothing ... we ... maybe ... well, I suppose who knows ... nothing's public" with plenty of knowing nods! I was quite upset because it's a small town and news flies around pretty fast. She as much as flat out said that either I or my SIL (which this acquaintance may not even know, and I was standing right there, of course) was expecting.

So either the SIL and brother have to run the risk of the news leaking before they're ready to share and potentially offending people who (in my opinion, if they're close family, rightly) expected to hear such news directly instead of through the grape vine. Or they could not invite the LW to the party and risk offending the LW because there are some people who struggle with infertility who would be upset by people assuming they wouldn't want to attend the party. Or they can tell the LW privately a couple hours before the party so there's no/little chance for news to spread, which may upset them for the same reasons as above if they've already heard about the party and thought they'd been deliberately excluded, and then they may not be able to come even if they wanted to on such short notice.

Or they could skip the party and tell people individually by phone in an afternoon. There are lots of other options here.

I wonder how LW would feel if she was excluded?

Re: I wonder how LW would feel if she was excluded?

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