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It 'feels' mutual or it IS mutual?

mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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in Wedding Woes

Dear Prudence,

My husband has a history of encounters with sex workers. He disclosed this before we started dating exclusively, and while I can’t say it didn’t bother me at all, I was prepared to look past it, and we’ve been able to comfortably discuss it throughout our relationship. Now we are planning on having an open marriage after the pandemic. This is for several reasons and feels like a very mutual decision. The issue is that he’s been asking if he can see prostitutes again as part of this arrangement. This bothers me, but I am second-guessing my discomfort because it would be safe sex, in an arrangement that guarantees no strings attached, and I think what worries me the most is just how it sounds. Should I try to be more open-minded about this?

—Am I Being Close-Minded?

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Re: It 'feels' mutual or it IS mutual?

  • CasadenaCasadena member
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    I personally don't see why if they have an open marriage, it matters whether the person the H is sleeping with is a "professional" or a person he met another way.
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  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    If you’re not comfortable it doesn’t seem like a mutual decision to me. It sounds like the husband wants to have sex with other people and you’re trying to find a way to be okay with it. 

    I know people who have open relationships, the key is being radically transparent with your communication. If you’re having to write to Prudie instead of talking to him about this it’s never going to work. 
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    I think if you can’t navigate communicating “I don’t want you to sleep with prostitutes” then your open marriage is doomed from the start. 
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  • banana468banana468 member
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    This is why the open marriage is just a non starter to me.  

    I am also wondering if the H is wanting an open marriage because he just wants to engage in the act with multiple women and isn't looking in any way to have to put out the personal time to make it happen.   And LW was probably hoping that it would not be so transactional and easy. 


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  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
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    Casadena said:
    I personally don't see why if they have an open marriage, it matters whether the person the H is sleeping with is a "professional" or a person he met another way.
    I agree with this but, at the same time, if the LW is uncomfortable with it then she is uncomfortable with it.  Feelings aren't always logical (for lack of a better word) and that's okay.

    From what I've heard, for open marriages to work and keep a marriage strong, it is crucial there are rules in place that each person abides by and is comfortable with.  Definitely a "two yeses or it's a no" situation on the rules.

    Since the LW is not comfortable, the H would be wise to let it go for now.  Once the pandemic is over, it will be a big change for their marriage.  I can understand the LW wanting to be more cautious with her feelings.  Let them both get used to it for a good while.  And then he can approach her again and see how she is feeling about it.  I could see her potentially be more okay with it once they are more used to the open marriage.  But, if she still isn't, then they can leave it a "I'll let you know if I change my mind".
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  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    I think if you have to convince yourself that something feels mutual, it's not.  I have questions about how the H's past was explained when they first got together and/or why this is coming up again now. 

    LW needs to figure out what they want and ask for it.  Clearly their husband doesn't have a problem doing so, but it's not a one way street. 
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  • CasadenaCasadena member
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    short+sassy said:
    Casadena said:
    I personally don't see why if they have an open marriage, it matters whether the person the H is sleeping with is a "professional" or a person he met another way.
    I agree with this but, at the same time, if the LW is uncomfortable with it then she is uncomfortable with it.  Feelings aren't always logical (for lack of a better word) and that's okay.

    From what I've heard, for open marriages to work and keep a marriage strong, it is crucial there are rules in place that each person abides by and is comfortable with.  Definitely a "two yeses or it's a no" situation on the rules.

    Since the LW is not comfortable, the H would be wise to let it go for now.  Once the pandemic is over, it will be a big change for their marriage.  I can understand the LW wanting to be more cautious with her feelings.  Let them both get used to it for a good while.  And then he can approach her again and see how she is feeling about it.  I could see her potentially be more okay with it once they are more used to the open marriage.  But, if she still isn't, then they can leave it a "I'll let you know if I change my mind".


    SIB:
    Absolutely this kind of thing is a two yesses or a no situation.  I guess my confusion is that it seems a little arbitrary in my mind.  I know there may be higher risk of STD's, etc with someone who's job is having sex, but just categorically eliminating an entire profession seems weird to me.  Like, you wouldn't necessary say no to all lawyers, or waiters, just bc of what they  do.  (again, i understand i'm simplifying, and it's like that lawyers or waiters are generally less risky).  

    I also know very little about how open relationships work because there is no way either one of us would ever be ok with that.  
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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
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    I tend to agree with you, @Casadena, from an emotions perspective. I'm not in a polyamorous relationship and I never have been. From what I've heard from people who are poly, dealing with your jealousy is the hardest part. Knowing that your partner is with a professional seems to eliminate a lot of that emotional jealousy. You know a SW is not going to catch feelings for your husband, and you know that it ends at sex. It's sort of like that relationship is a wholly different type than a marriage. 

    It feels like either 1) LW is not as on board with this as they say they are, or 2) LW has some biases and prejudices against sex workers. 
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  • banana468banana468 member
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    MyNameIsNot said:
    I tend to agree with you, @Casadena, from an emotions perspective. I'm not in a polyamorous relationship and I never have been. From what I've heard from people who are poly, dealing with your jealousy is the hardest part. Knowing that your partner is with a professional seems to eliminate a lot of that emotional jealousy. You know a SW is not going to catch feelings for your husband, and you know that it ends at sex. It's sort of like that relationship is a wholly different type than a marriage. 

    It feels like either 1) LW is not as on board with this as they say they are, or 2) LW has some biases and prejudices against sex workers. 
    That's where I'm coming from.  

    I'm curious if LW is thinking that an open relationship was OK because if it was something to navigate with another person without cost it would be more work and therefore not as easy for the H.  However by using people paid to do this it makes the process simpler and without emotion but also makes it easier to achieve that goal.  

    I dunno - I'm glad this isn't something that I navigate and appreciate those I know in open relationships who do. 
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    Casadena said:
    short+sassy said:
    Casadena said:
    I personally don't see why if they have an open marriage, it matters whether the person the H is sleeping with is a "professional" or a person he met another way.
    I agree with this but, at the same time, if the LW is uncomfortable with it then she is uncomfortable with it.  Feelings aren't always logical (for lack of a better word) and that's okay.

    From what I've heard, for open marriages to work and keep a marriage strong, it is crucial there are rules in place that each person abides by and is comfortable with.  Definitely a "two yeses or it's a no" situation on the rules.

    Since the LW is not comfortable, the H would be wise to let it go for now.  Once the pandemic is over, it will be a big change for their marriage.  I can understand the LW wanting to be more cautious with her feelings.  Let them both get used to it for a good while.  And then he can approach her again and see how she is feeling about it.  I could see her potentially be more okay with it once they are more used to the open marriage.  But, if she still isn't, then they can leave it a "I'll let you know if I change my mind".


    SIB:
    Absolutely this kind of thing is a two yesses or a no situation.  I guess my confusion is that it seems a little arbitrary in my mind.  I know there may be higher risk of STD's, etc with someone who's job is having sex, but just categorically eliminating an entire profession seems weird to me.  Like, you wouldn't necessary say no to all lawyers, or waiters, just bc of what they  do.  (again, i understand i'm simplifying, and it's like that lawyers or waiters are generally less risky).  

    I also know very little about how open relationships work because there is no way either one of us would ever be ok with that.  
    To me it’s not at all arbitrary to say no prostitutes because hiring prostitutes is a crime. It’s weird to pretend this is like being a lawyer or waiter. 
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  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    banana468 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    Casadena said:
    short+sassy said:
    Casadena said:
    I personally don't see why if they have an open marriage, it matters whether the person the H is sleeping with is a "professional" or a person he met another way.
    I agree with this but, at the same time, if the LW is uncomfortable with it then she is uncomfortable with it.  Feelings aren't always logical (for lack of a better word) and that's okay.

    From what I've heard, for open marriages to work and keep a marriage strong, it is crucial there are rules in place that each person abides by and is comfortable with.  Definitely a "two yeses or it's a no" situation on the rules.

    Since the LW is not comfortable, the H would be wise to let it go for now.  Once the pandemic is over, it will be a big change for their marriage.  I can understand the LW wanting to be more cautious with her feelings.  Let them both get used to it for a good while.  And then he can approach her again and see how she is feeling about it.  I could see her potentially be more okay with it once they are more used to the open marriage.  But, if she still isn't, then they can leave it a "I'll let you know if I change my mind".


    SIB:
    Absolutely this kind of thing is a two yesses or a no situation.  I guess my confusion is that it seems a little arbitrary in my mind.  I know there may be higher risk of STD's, etc with someone who's job is having sex, but just categorically eliminating an entire profession seems weird to me.  Like, you wouldn't necessary say no to all lawyers, or waiters, just bc of what they  do.  (again, i understand i'm simplifying, and it's like that lawyers or waiters are generally less risky).  

    I also know very little about how open relationships work because there is no way either one of us would ever be ok with that.  
    To me it’s not at all arbitrary to say no prostitutes because hiring prostitutes is a crime. It’s weird to pretend this is like being a lawyer or waiter. 
    Unless it isn't where they live? 
    Yeah, it's legal in NV.   And there has been some progress on the 'decriminalizing' front in many places.   
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  • banana468banana468 member
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    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    Casadena said:
    short+sassy said:
    Casadena said:
    I personally don't see why if they have an open marriage, it matters whether the person the H is sleeping with is a "professional" or a person he met another way.
    I agree with this but, at the same time, if the LW is uncomfortable with it then she is uncomfortable with it.  Feelings aren't always logical (for lack of a better word) and that's okay.

    From what I've heard, for open marriages to work and keep a marriage strong, it is crucial there are rules in place that each person abides by and is comfortable with.  Definitely a "two yeses or it's a no" situation on the rules.

    Since the LW is not comfortable, the H would be wise to let it go for now.  Once the pandemic is over, it will be a big change for their marriage.  I can understand the LW wanting to be more cautious with her feelings.  Let them both get used to it for a good while.  And then he can approach her again and see how she is feeling about it.  I could see her potentially be more okay with it once they are more used to the open marriage.  But, if she still isn't, then they can leave it a "I'll let you know if I change my mind".


    SIB:
    Absolutely this kind of thing is a two yesses or a no situation.  I guess my confusion is that it seems a little arbitrary in my mind.  I know there may be higher risk of STD's, etc with someone who's job is having sex, but just categorically eliminating an entire profession seems weird to me.  Like, you wouldn't necessary say no to all lawyers, or waiters, just bc of what they  do.  (again, i understand i'm simplifying, and it's like that lawyers or waiters are generally less risky).  

    I also know very little about how open relationships work because there is no way either one of us would ever be ok with that.  
    To me it’s not at all arbitrary to say no prostitutes because hiring prostitutes is a crime. It’s weird to pretend this is like being a lawyer or waiter. 
    Unless it isn't where they live? 
    Yeah, it's legal in NV.   And there has been some progress on the 'decriminalizing' front in many places.   
    And in other countries too.  So while there's a *good* chance it may not be legal where this person lives it's moving towards more legal in more places.
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  • CasadenaCasadena member
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    edited February 2021
    @STARMOON44 absolutely if it's a crime where they are, to me this point is moot.  But LW doesn't mention that as one of her hang-ups which to me makes it seem like that's not the sticking point for her OR it's legal where they are.  So in that case I agree with @MyNameIsNot that LW is either not super on board, or has major bias against sex workers.  

    ETF: words
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  • CharmedPamCharmedPam member
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    Wait, who says a sex worker and LW’s H wouldn’t start a relationship or feelings for one another? Chances are less, probably, but I’ve seen Pretty Woman. 

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  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
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    edited February 2021
    I didn't get into it because this doesn't seem to be the LW's concern.  Plus I know I'm also guilty of usually picturing the "nice" side of prostitution.  And by that, I mean a Julia Roberts-esque independent woman and/or high-end call girl that has freely chosen this type of work.

    But from a moral standpoint...and I don't mean a sexually based moral standpoint...prostitution is largely a stomach-churning, very ugly business where people are often in horrific situations.  It can be desperation just to put food on the table.  Or, even worse, it's "pimps" beating and drugging people, especially young runaways, into submission and trafficking.  Edited because I mixed up my verbiage, ie pimps are sellers and johns are buyers.

    So, even if I was cool with my H visiting a legit establishment like the Midnight Bunny Ranch (I'm not, lol),  Anything like street sex workers, where there could be any possibility a woman is being forced but can't say anything, would be a 1,000% no.  And any man who disagrees would have me deal-breaking seriously disturbed about his character.
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  • CharmedPamCharmedPam member
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    LOL @short+sassy we were both referencing that movie at the same time!

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  • banana468banana468 member
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    short+sassy said:
    I didn't get into it because this doesn't seem to be the LW's concern.  Plus I know I'm also guilty of usually picturing the "nice" side of prostitution.  And by that, I mean a Julia Roberts-esque independent woman and/or high-end call girl that has freely chosen this type of work.

    But from a moral standpoint...and I don't mean a sexually based moral standpoint...prostitution is largely a stomach-churning, very ugly business where people are often in horrific situations.  It can be desperation just to put food on the table.  Or, even worse, it's "johns" beating and drugging people, especially young runaways, into submission and trafficking.

    So, even if I was cool with my H visiting a legit establishment like the Midnight Bunny Ranch (I'm not, lol),  Anything like street sex workers, where there could be any possibility a woman is being forced but can't say anything, would be a 1,000% no.  And any man who disagrees would have me deal-breaking seriously disturbed about his character.
    I can also support that too.  

    A very dear family friend lost his life when a pimp shot him and he was a "John".  The unregulated dark side is horrific. 

    It's part of why I'd rather see this see more regulation than keep this crept underground in a similar way that I'd prefer to see marijuana legalized if not decriminalized in more places.    
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