Wedding Woes

It's time to realize she's an adult and choosing her choices.

Dear Prudence,

My younger daughter was quite extraordinary as a child—observant, empathetic, sweet, and kind. Her dad and I tried to raise her as a caring, loving person, and it worked. For a while. During her teen years, she was greatly influenced by close friends who didn’t have good behavior modeled for them at home: swearing, no manners, obnoxious behavior. We are quite liberal, and she normally embraces our values but seemed to turn away on other things. She lost the sunny disposition she once had.

Her senior year she started dating a girl we knew very little about but who seemed to make her very happy, and as she said “made her feel beautiful” (I’m biased, I know, but my daughter is gorgeous). The most I could find out was that her girlfriend had a rough home life, but their teachers praised my daughter for being a good influence on her. Her girlfriend came to school more and did her homework, as urged by my daughter. That made me proud. Then, tragedy. On an evening when she promised to come watch my daughter’s game, she didn’t show. Turns out, she got into a car with a bunch of other friends who were on a mission to steal drugs and money from a home. Armed robbery and murder followed. Within a couple days all of them were arrested. My daughter was devastated but stood by her. I tried to talk to my daughter about them having no future now, as her girlfriend pleaded out and is going to prison. But due to COVID, her sentencing has been delayed, and she’s still at home. In addition to this, I see signs of jealousy, manipulation, and control. How do I help my daughter see this is not a healthy relationship? I’ve never felt so helpless.

—Worried Sick

Re: It's time to realize she's an adult and choosing her choices.

  • Your daughter’s girlfriend, and to a much lesser extent your daughter experienced something traumatic- even if the girlfriend was responsible for something horrible. I think counseling is a great idea; not to get her to end the relationship but to deal with what is certainly a lot of really tough emotions now. 
  • I think this LW is infantilizing their daughter by saying that she was influenced by  friends and it's all their fault she's rebelled.   I also agree @STARMOON44, she's in crisis and telling her how she's wrong is not helping this situation.  LW should definitely try to assist their daughter in getting help, however realize there's not much they can do if daughter is over 18 (which from the letter, that's what it seems) and refuses assistance.  But either way, judging the GF and the relationship is not the way to go at this moment in time.  

    DH told me about a situation with the kiddo this week (not this severe by any means) where it made him feel some sort of parent-y (worry mixed with a little disappointment) way and I had to point out 1. it's typical for his age and 2. there's literally nothing we can do to 'make' the kiddo do anything.  We can be supportive and tell him how we feel, but he's going to make his choices. 
  • Oh interesting @mrsconn23 because I read this as daughter was still in high school (and thus under 18). That definitely impacted how I saw this. If daughter is still young/a teenager I think they need more guidance & support. If they’re an adult out making adult decisions then I think it’s a little different. 
  • Oh interesting @mrsconn23 because I read this as daughter was still in high school (and thus under 18). That definitely impacted how I saw this. If daughter is still young/a teenager I think they need more guidance & support. If they’re an adult out making adult decisions then I think it’s a little different. 
    It says, "Her senior year..."  SO I'm assuming she's in the middle of said year OR it was in the recent past? 
  • I read it as senior year is in the past and the daughter is a young adult.  With this, though, daughter is still an adult and may need guidance from mom on coping but mom shouldn't be trying to push to end the relationship because such pushes rarely work. 
  • mrsconn23 said:
    Oh interesting @mrsconn23 because I read this as daughter was still in high school (and thus under 18). That definitely impacted how I saw this. If daughter is still young/a teenager I think they need more guidance & support. If they’re an adult out making adult decisions then I think it’s a little different. 
    It says, "Her senior year..."  SO I'm assuming she's in the middle of said year OR it was in the recent past? 
    Yah I read it at this is her senior year. But either way it sounds like she needs some help navigating this situation. LW should make it clear there may be consequences with continuing this relationship (like what if LW had been in the car with the GF when all this went down) and support her in talking about how all this is affecting her. 
  • mrsconn23 said:
    Oh interesting @mrsconn23 because I read this as daughter was still in high school (and thus under 18). That definitely impacted how I saw this. If daughter is still young/a teenager I think they need more guidance & support. If they’re an adult out making adult decisions then I think it’s a little different. 
    It says, "Her senior year..."  SO I'm assuming she's in the middle of said year OR it was in the recent past? 
    Yah I read it at this is her senior year. But either way it sounds like she needs some help navigating this situation. LW should make it clear there may be consequences with continuing this relationship (like what if LW had been in the car with the GF when all this went down) and support her in talking about how all this is affecting her. 
    It's time for boundaries as much as support.  The LW does have leverage if daughter is living at home.  I also think LW needs to be reasonable.  The GF will be sentenced and they will be separated.  Also at this age, a lot of this impulsiveness and dramatics and "OMG this is the LOVE OF MY LIFE" is common. You don't have to buy into it all, but you can try to listen without judgement and bite your tongue on the desire to give feedback when it's not going to be well received and cause further tension. 

    If daughter says something about the GF being jealous or manipulative and LW can work with daughter to explore how it's making her feel without injecting their opinion or conclusions.  "If your dad/mom was doing that, I'd feel x," is a great way to communicate without putting it on the daughter's relationship. 

    It's fucking hard and the worry never stops, but drawing lines with the kiddo and holding him accountable has only served to bring more peace to our lives.  Sure there's shit that pops up, but sticking to our boundaries has made a lot of it much more manageable. 
  • VarunaTTVarunaTT member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited March 2021
    I know I'm projecting on this letter, but here goes:

    LW didn't raise daughter in a way that gave daughter healthy boundaries as an adult and has controlled her through manipulation.  "My daughter is special...", going after teacher's opinions about someone her daughter is dating rather than asking her daughter, the "obnoxious" and therefore unapproved by mother behavior of her friends which sounds pretty much like normal teenagers.  Also, there's something missing b/c daughter was in car, but wasn't arrested?  Mom is missing the forest for the trees and that's to stop treating her daughter like a special princess and treat her like a human, deserving of respect.  Asking her daughter if she wants advice or just listening to her.

    It's hard for people to understand that manipulation doesn't always have an "evil" tinge to you...you can honestly mean things for the best and it's still manipulation. My mother could've written this letter about me (sans the GF story) and she did me no favors with what she did.  She has her own baggage and I can see that now as an adult; but as an adult I am also dealing with some heavy issues in therapy to try and learn how to be healthy and functioning with boundaries in my relationships.

    All of this to say, I don't LW needs to be listening to her daughter and supporting her.  Daughter is going to make her own decisions, either through default (prison) or conscious choice.  If daughter asks for advice, I would give it, but most importantly daughter should know she's loved and supported no matter what she does.

    ETA:  And they both need therapy and probably some family therapy too.
  • Also, I can almost guarantee, from LW's behavior, LW is a "fixer" and raised the daughter to be a "fixer" and that's why daughter isn't leaving the GF.  The comments "teachers praised my daughter for being a good influence on her", couple with "rough homelife" and "tragedy" raises all my damn red flags now.
  • Therapy. Especially if you concerned with DV type manipulation. Idk how you can "make" it happen if daughter is over 18 but try. 
    @VarunaTT I read it as Daughter had a game that GF was supposed to be at but instead got involved in robbery/murder, not that the daughter was involved. But yes, so many red flags.
  • VarunaTT said:
    I know I'm projecting on this letter, but here goes:

    LW didn't raise daughter in a way that gave daughter healthy boundaries as an adult and has controlled her through manipulation.  "My daughter is special...", going after teacher's opinions about someone her daughter is dating rather than asking her daughter, the "obnoxious" and therefore unapproved by mother behavior of her friends which sounds pretty much like normal teenagers.  Also, there's something missing b/c daughter was in car, but wasn't arrested?  Mom is missing the forest for the trees and that's to stop treating her daughter like a special princess and treat her like a human, deserving of respect.  Asking her daughter if she wants advice or just listening to her.

    It's hard for people to understand that manipulation doesn't always have an "evil" tinge to you...you can honestly mean things for the best and it's still manipulation. My mother could've written this letter about me (sans the GF story) and she did me no favors with what she did.  She has her own baggage and I can see that now as an adult; but as an adult I am also dealing with some heavy issues in therapy to try and learn how to be healthy and functioning with boundaries in my relationships.

    All of this to say, I don't LW needs to be listening to her daughter and supporting her.  Daughter is going to make her own decisions, either through default (prison) or conscious choice.  If daughter asks for advice, I would give it, but most importantly daughter should know she's loved and supported no matter what she does.

    ETA:  And they both need therapy and probably some family therapy too.
    I am reading this as daughter had some kind of sports game, GF said she would be there and no-showed.  It came out that instead of attending GF was involved in this crime, daughter was NOT involved but the GF is now going to prison. 

    I'm reading this as daughter is standing by her GF as a supportive partner but daughter's involvement is that she's dating someone convicted of a serious crime. 
  • Oooo, I see what you guys are reading now.  I read too fast and missed a line.  Got it.
  • banana468 said:
    VarunaTT said:
    I know I'm projecting on this letter, but here goes:

    LW didn't raise daughter in a way that gave daughter healthy boundaries as an adult and has controlled her through manipulation.  "My daughter is special...", going after teacher's opinions about someone her daughter is dating rather than asking her daughter, the "obnoxious" and therefore unapproved by mother behavior of her friends which sounds pretty much like normal teenagers.  Also, there's something missing b/c daughter was in car, but wasn't arrested?  Mom is missing the forest for the trees and that's to stop treating her daughter like a special princess and treat her like a human, deserving of respect.  Asking her daughter if she wants advice or just listening to her.

    It's hard for people to understand that manipulation doesn't always have an "evil" tinge to you...you can honestly mean things for the best and it's still manipulation. My mother could've written this letter about me (sans the GF story) and she did me no favors with what she did.  She has her own baggage and I can see that now as an adult; but as an adult I am also dealing with some heavy issues in therapy to try and learn how to be healthy and functioning with boundaries in my relationships.

    All of this to say, I don't LW needs to be listening to her daughter and supporting her.  Daughter is going to make her own decisions, either through default (prison) or conscious choice.  If daughter asks for advice, I would give it, but most importantly daughter should know she's loved and supported no matter what she does.

    ETA:  And they both need therapy and probably some family therapy too.
    I am reading this as daughter had some kind of sports game, GF said she would be there and no-showed.  It came out that instead of attending GF was involved in this crime, daughter was NOT involved but the GF is now going to prison. 

    I'm reading this as daughter is standing by her GF as a supportive partner but daughter's involvement is that she's dating someone convicted of a serious crime. 
    Same, but even more to Varuna's fixer point. If daughter hadn't be at her game, she would have been with GF and GF wouldn't have gotten involved with this crime. You know daughter has thought it. 
  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited March 2021
    Of course, it's always the "other" kids that are the bad influence.  To an extent, their daughter is behaving the same way they are.  They are both seeing someone they love through a much rosier filter than the reality.  For all they know, it was just by the grace of God that their daughter had a game that night and wasn't involved THIS time in a drug related, violent crime.  Maybe the g/f is the much more "innocent", didn't know what was going to happen, held "against her will" in the crime.  Or maybe the daughter is usually the one holding the gun or driving the getaway car.

    Did anyone else eyeroll so hard over the line about the school supposedly praising the daughter over what a great influence she is, lol.  "Oh, thank goodness for this wonderful teenager.  Saving her wayward girlfriend from her own bad behavior."  Killin' me.

    Either way, the daughter needs therapy to manager her feelings because I assume she is really hurting over what happened.  I don't think it's wise to directly bad mouth the g/f, because then the daughter will defend her more feverishly.  I think the relationship will end faster if the parents just let this play out.  I don't see many 18-year-olds waiting for years for their SO to get out of prison. 
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Of course, it's always the "other" kids that are the bad influence.  To an extent, their daughter is behaving the same way they are.  They are both seeing someone they love through a much rosier filter than the reality.  For all they know, it was just by the grace of God that their daughter had a game that night and wasn't involved THIS time in a drug related, violent crime.  Maybe the g/f is the much more "innocent", didn't know what was going to happen, held "against her will" in the crime.  Or maybe the daughter is usually the one holding the gun or driving the getaway car.

    Did anyone else eyeroll so hard over the line about the school supposedly praising the daughter over what a great influence she is, lol.  "Oh, thank goodness for this wonderful teenager.  Saving her wayward girlfriend from her own bad behavior."  Killin' me.

    Either way, the daughter needs therapy to manager her feelings because I assume she is really hurting over what happened.  I don't think it's wise to directly bad mouth the g/f, because then the daughter will defend her more feverishly.  I think the relationship will end faster if the parents just let this play out.  I don't see many 18-year-olds waiting for years for their SO to get out of prison. 
    Yep, suspicious about that line.  And what LW constitutes as proper behaviour.  I also had no idea that being around people that swear would make me lose my sunny disposition - I'd better start a swear jar!  Personally, I would just peg being a teenager as the reason for the sunny disposition disappearing, but that's just me.

  • Hey guys, do you think a long distance relationship lamp would be a good gift for people who travel a lot?
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