Did you even TRY to be collaborative or just washed your hands?

mrsconn23 · July 2024

Dear Prudence,

When should I walk away from a spouse who refuses to take care of their health? My sweet, easy-going spouse has a manageable chronic condition that they are just…choosing not to manage. I decided almost immediately after their diagnosis that I couldn’t play parent or nurse for them, and that trying to control their eating or exercise habits would most likely backfire in any case. I’ve done my best to model good habits and not judge, but now I’m wondering if I’ve been too hands-off. It’s been almost two decades of unhealthy living and the consequences are catching up.

I was hoping that the most recent health scare and the chorus of doctors would be a wake-up call, but no dice. They are still able to live independently right now, but my guess is that in five years or less my “not your nurse” resolution will be moot and I’ll default to being their caregiver. Should I leave now and hope that THAT will be a wake-up call? Or is this just the price I pay as the ant who fell in love with a grasshopper?

—Winter Is Coming

levioosa · July 2024

I'll be the fortune teller--you absolutely will be thrust into the roll of caregiver and you will resent it. It's a CTJ talk and you have to be prepared to walk away if you don't want that life.

MyNameIsNot · July 2024

This sounds a lot less about them taking care of themselves than LW doesn't want to nurse their spouse through a terminal illness and is looking for permission to get out.

mrsconn23 · July 2024

Just like last week, I have questions about LW's communication with their partner.

"I've done my best to model good habits and not judge." Did you ever ask him to meal plan, grocery shop, cook together, go on regular walks or some low-impact easy physical activity? If you didn't and just sat silently, then I don't think that's being a good partner just as much as him not taking care of himself.

If you did try, then yes...maybe it's time to reevaluate.

Also, why not go to an appt or two with him to at least hear what the doc is saying or recommends? My dad is a T1D and my mom put a lot of effort into educating herself on the disease, not to take over management for him, but to know good vs. bad and help encourage my dad if he was struggling with the management of it.

And LW, you have been judging your partner.

Anyway, on one hand...I understand LW is staring down being a nurse to him or having to make difficult decisions regarding his care (like putting him in assisted living or something), so yes...if he has no impetus to change, then leaving him may be the best option. But on the other, LW has sat on their hands all this time for whatever reason, and not stood up for their partnership by letting him 'make his bed'...so you could start trying now and use this as a wake-up call before you throw in the towel.

There's a wide berth between being a supportive, encouraging partner who wants the best for their person because they love them and want to have a fulfilling life with them and a complaining, nagging shrew who thinks their partner is being worthless for not taking care of themselves.

VarunaTT · July 2024

I wonder what gender LW is. This super sounds like a queer masc relationship to me. One is that super fit buying into toxic masculinity dude and the other is the soft sweet has a dad bod dude, and toxic dude is an ass.

Anyway, go ahead and leave your spouse to find someone who actually loves them and wants to share life with them, rather than judge them for chronic diseases. there's so much more to be heard from teh spouse and LW seems self centered AF.

short+sassy · July 2024

The LW is such an AH. "In sickness and in health" is part of the marriage vows.

The LW is trying to excuse herself with "he didn't do enough to stave off complications". But if her stance is "I will never play parent or nurse", then she would always leave, no matter what the circumstances were. If he had done everything perfectly to manage his condition and still developed debilitating complications, she would be a gone. Or if he got hit by a bus tomorrow and needed a lot of care. Same thing.

I can understand her resentment if he truly didn't do much to help himself. We also only have her opinion on that. But she also needs to read her own letter and face that she would leave her disabled spouse, no matter what the circumstances are.

Let's also go back in time 20 years. Her husband was just diagnosed with a chronic LIFELONG medical condition. They're both devastated. But it's still HIS condition.

What does the LW do? Tells him, "You better take care of yourself or I'll leave. Because I'm not going to be your parent or nurse." She probably said it nicer than that. But that was the message. It's incredibly cruel and enough to leave someone over.

The human mind is a funny thing. Maybe his subconscious mind says, "Why bother trying? I don't think I can do it perfectly, so she'll leave me someday anyway."

levioosa · July 2024

short+sassy said:

The LW is such an AH. "In sickness and in health" is part of the marriage vows.

The LW is trying to excuse herself with "he didn't do enough to stave off complications". But if her stance is "I will never play parent or nurse", then she would always leave, no matter what the circumstances were. If he had done everything perfectly to manage his condition and still developed debilitating complications, she would be a gone. Or if he got hit by a bus tomorrow and needed a lot of care. Same thing.

I can understand her resentment if he truly didn't do much to help himself. We also only have her opinion on that. But she also needs to read her own letter and face that she would leave her disabled spouse, no matter what the circumstances are.

Let's also go back in time 20 years. Her husband was just diagnosed with a chronic LIFELONG medical condition. They're both devastated. But it's still HIS condition.

What does the LW do? Tells him, "You better take care of yourself or I'll leave. Because I'm not going to be your parent or nurse." She probably said it nicer than that. But that was the message. It's incredibly cruel and enough to leave someone over.

The human mind is a funny thing. Maybe his subconscious mind says, "Why bother trying? I don't think I can do it perfectly, so she'll leave me someday anyway."

Ehhh. I disagree. There's a big difference between your spouse becoming unexpectedly ill or injured, and someone who declines to take care of themselves. My dad is a perfect example. Disregarding the many other reasons they should have divorced, he didn't take care of himself. My mom would try to get them to go on walks, to eat healthy, but he was an ass about it and would either flat out refuse, or only temporarily do it before once again becoming an ass about it. Now he's had a heart attack and a stroke and she will be his lifelong caregiver and she is so fucking salty and bitter about it. And I get it, she tried for years and years and he said nothing would happen to him. I don't think that was necessarily her burden to bear just because she said "I do, in sickness and in health."

short+sassy · July 2024

levioosa said:

short+sassy said:

The LW is such an AH. "In sickness and in health" is part of the marriage vows.

The LW is trying to excuse herself with "he didn't do enough to stave off complications". But if her stance is "I will never play parent or nurse", then she would always leave, no matter what the circumstances were. If he had done everything perfectly to manage his condition and still developed debilitating complications, she would be a gone. Or if he got hit by a bus tomorrow and needed a lot of care. Same thing.

I can understand her resentment if he truly didn't do much to help himself. We also only have her opinion on that. But she also needs to read her own letter and face that she would leave her disabled spouse, no matter what the circumstances are.

Let's also go back in time 20 years. Her husband was just diagnosed with a chronic LIFELONG medical condition. They're both devastated. But it's still HIS condition.

What does the LW do? Tells him, "You better take care of yourself or I'll leave. Because I'm not going to be your parent or nurse." She probably said it nicer than that. But that was the message. It's incredibly cruel and enough to leave someone over.

The human mind is a funny thing. Maybe his subconscious mind says, "Why bother trying? I don't think I can do it perfectly, so she'll leave me someday anyway."

Ehhh. I disagree. There's a big difference between your spouse becoming unexpectedly ill or injured, and someone who declines to take care of themselves. My dad is a perfect example. Disregarding the many other reasons they should have divorced, he didn't take care of himself. My mom would try to get them to go on walks, to eat healthy, but he was an ass about it and would either flat out refuse, or only temporarily do it before once again becoming an ass about it. Now he's had a heart attack and a stroke and she will be his lifelong caregiver and she is so fucking salty and bitter about it. And I get it, she tried for years and years and he said nothing would happen to him. I don't think that was necessarily her burden to bear just because she said "I do, in sickness and in health."

I agree with you in a specific circumstance like that. If a healthy spouse (HS) truly tried to help their sick spouse (SS) implement better behaviors that will prolong their health/life. Or at least not add to the "bad" behaviors. Then I can understand them choosing to leave the marriage, at some point. But they also shouldn't be mad at the SS, because people get to make their own choices in life.

But the way she phrased it, strongly gave me the impression that she wouldn't be someone's caregiver no matter what the circumstances were.

I am also the most angry at how she treated him after his diagnosis. I'd be okay with and understand if she said something like that in a CTJ moment like 6-12 months later and he wasn't changing his habits. But she said that was what she decided almost immediately.

I am also always very suspicious with people's narratives on how well someone does/doesn't take care of themselves. Not you about your dad. But people I don't know, like the LW.

Because most people are SO judgmental, especially about food, and sometimes downright ignorant about what someone should be doing. They might expect their loved one to make all these sacrifices, yet they wouldn't be much different if the tables were turned. It's easy to be sanctimonious and only focus on the things a person does "wrong".

short+sassy · July 2024

mrsconn23 said:

Also, why not go to an appt or two with him to at least hear what the doc is saying or recommends? My dad is a T1D and my mom put a lot of effort into educating herself on the disease, not to take over management for him, but to know good vs. bad and help encourage my dad if he was struggling with the management of it.

I love all of this! Your mom rocks.

It reminds of a funny story on the other side of this coin where an ex-b/f did ZERO research. Not funny at the time. But just so EYE-ROLLING that I now find it hilarious.

I was in a serious relationship with a guy in my early/mid 20s for TWO years. He broke up with me one day, which was out of nowhere from my perspective. I asked the obvious question of "why". He gave a vague answer of he hadn't been happy in the relationship for awhile, but couldn't seem to explain that any further though he looked like he was trying. Looking back, I think he fell out of love for me for whatever reason that those things sometimes happen.

But in his grasping to give me a reason he said, "We also don't have a future together. Because I want kids someday and you can't have children because you're diabetic." (This was when I was still open to having children)

At least this absurdity got me laughing. I said something like, "WTF are you talking about?!?! T1 women have children all the time. My diabetes is in good control and there is no reason I couldn't have a child if I wanted to."

Then changed my tone to full sarcasm and added, "Have you been worried about this the whole time? So much so that you never asked me about. Or...I don't know...did a 30-SECOND FUCKING GOOGLE search!!!"

He mumbled something about that was what his mom told him, but it wasn't just that. I'm still proud I had the wherewithal to stand up for myself. I told him, "I know it's not that. But what a gent you are to blame my disability and use it as an excuse anyway." He couldn't even look at me. Mumbled I was right and sorries.

VarunaTT · July 2024

I'm laughing. this LW was very careful never to mention their or their spouse's gender, y'all. This might be a dude and men are very well known for bouncing when their wife/husband becomes chronically ill.

Also, chronic illness messes with your head. Even when it's diabetes, there are some people who just can't wrap their minds around the fact that something in their body doesn't work how it's supposed to And even if they do take care of it, long term chronic illness carries it's own baggage. An extreme example close to my heart is long term sufferers of HIV. Even if they've beaten back the virus and aren't in full blown AIDS, we're seeing the first generation of ATZ users just stop taking their medicines because they're just tired of managing the virus. It's heartbreaking and a real issue in the queer world that I've both read about and seen first hand.

I don't think there's an easy solution, but LW is being an asshole, no matter their gender. It's not so much the "in sickness and in health" but the refusal to be a partnership for this issue. I saw a comedian who was disabled say, "The disability community is the minority that we will all eventually become a part of" and it smacked me around because it's true. We'll all get old and need accomadations, assistance, and compassion. LW has no compassion and is a self centered twat.

MyNameIsNot · July 2024

VarunaTT said:

I'm laughing. this LW was very careful never to mention their or their spouse's gender, y'all. This might be a dude and men are very well known for bouncing when their wife/husband becomes chronically ill.

I really try to stay gender neutral with the LW avoids mentioning gender, but I had a hard time not reading LW as a man as well.

The statistics on men leaving their partners with disabilities and chronic illnesses are pretty staggering. There are women who leave as well, but they're wrought with guilt about it. This LW is not.

short+sassy · July 2024

VarunaTT said:

I'm laughing. this LW was very careful never to mention their or their spouse's gender, y'all. This might be a dude and men are very well known for bouncing when their wife/husband becomes chronically ill.

Also, chronic illness messes with your head. Even when it's diabetes, there are some people who just can't wrap their minds around the fact that something in their body doesn't work how it's supposed to And even if they do take care of it, long term chronic illness carries it's own baggage. An extreme example close to my heart is long term sufferers of HIV. Even if they've beaten back the virus and aren't in full blown AIDS, we're seeing the first generation of ATZ users just stop taking their medicines because they're just tired of managing the virus. It's heartbreaking and a real issue in the queer world that I've both read about and seen first hand.

I don't think there's an easy solution, but LW is being an asshole, no matter their gender. It's not so much the "in sickness and in health" but the refusal to be a partnership for this issue. I saw a comedian who was disabled say, "The disability community is the minority that we will all eventually become a part of" and it smacked me around because it's true. We'll all get old and need accomadations, assistance, and compassion. LW has no compassion and is a self centered twat.

You're totally right about the gender thing. Don't quote me on this, but men are something like 3x more likely to leave a sick spouse. But I was so positive the LW was a woman for no reason, lol. I think when I don't know the gender, my brain just automatically assumes it's a woman because I'm one.

I've seen the same thing in the T1 diabetic community, albeit online. There are a few posts a week with someone talking about they just can't do it anymore. Depression is 3x higher in T1 diabetics and twice as high in T2, as compared to the average population. Fortunately, I don't suffer from depression. It is a PITA and daily grind to manage, but I don't find it onerous. However, I understand where the sentiment comes from. I don't know the daily grind of HIV, but can sympathize it's a similar feeling. That sometimes the fight isn't worth it anymore.

Even a close loved one isn't truly going to understand what that's like. Which goes back to the point I made above. It's easy for someone to be judgmental when they aren't the ones with the stress and sometimes self-loathing of ALL the things they're supposed to do, ALL the time.

I can also speak from experience that sometimes you have to make choices. I've taken pretty good care of my diabetes over the years, but there was also room for improvement. I "should" have checked my blood glucose a lot more than I have. According to someone like the LW, I "should" have never touched a sugary/high carb item again unless my blood sugar was low.

But I chose my sanity and what I could comfortably do over perfection. I've probably traded a few years of my life or will develop complications sooner. I'd still rather have that than have spent every single day for the last 30 years of my life, with extra stress and extra micro-management.

Everybody gets to make that choice for themselves with their health because everyone's line for what they can handle is different. A spouse/loved one can have input. They can also choose to leave if they can't live with those choices. But then they better hope karma isn't a bitch and gives them a medical condition that they can't handle changing their behaviors for.

Did you even TRY to be collaborative or just washed your hands?

Re: Did you even TRY to be collaborative or just washed your hands?

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