Since it's a tad slow...article

gurrlballa10 · June 2012

CN: An opinion piece on how homosexuals that adopt confuse their kids, as well as sites bible verses runs in a high school newspaper. An openly gay couple raising four kids in the same school district fight to get the article removed.

Do you think the students have a right to publish such an article (free speech) or do you think it was crossing the line?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-15/gay-parenting-shawano/52567228/1

brandichamberlain · June 2012

I highly disagree with the content, but a journalist writing an opinion piece should be allowed to write about their opinion on whatever they want. I am surprised that this was in a school newspaper though.

KateJ10 · June 2012

I think they should not have been able to publish that in the school newspaper. There is freedom of speech, but it doesn't really mean that you can write whatever you want in whatever medium you want.

Now if someone published something like that on their own blog, I see that being a lot different than a school newspaper. The school newspaper should ensure their content is suitable for its audience.

dmiller9274 · June 2012

I didn't think you had the same free speech rights at school.

[Deleted User] · June 2012

Do they have a right to publish it? Yes. Is it appropriate for a high school paper? Probably not.

However, there was an opposing opinion piece that ran along with it. So I don't see it as being that outrageous considering they showed both sides of the issues and allowed viewpoints from those for and against gay marriage/adopting kids.

That being said, I don't respect people like the ones who wrote it at all.

brandichamberlain · June 2012

I went back and read it again and I was pretty surprised that one of the parents said "This is why kids commit suicide". I feel like that is a pretty bold statement to make.

adamar15 · June 2012

I didn't think minors had the same protections as adults (like freedom of speech). I definitely don't think the school should have allowed something like that to be published.

Summer2011Bride · June 2012

I'm the advisor for our school newspaper and I would never let one of my staffers publish that. Yes, there is free speech, but when you are writing for school (and on top of that, our paper is an academic class, not extracurricular), there are restrictions. Students need to be OK with that or not be on the paper. LIke a PP said, I think it's different if someone posted something on their own website, but when it's associated with a high school, that's a totally different story.

gurrlballa10 · June 2012

Duds, I found somewhat of an update from a couple weeks later. Apparently, the school issued a statement (obviously) and removed the article from any leftover copies of the paper.

I don't think it was appropriate by any means, but I think it did some good for the family. It opened the dialouge with their children about the whole thing, so I think some good came out of it.

@Summer, it makes me question where the adult advisor was in this school. I have never heard of a paper being run solely by the students, so I doubt that is the case. I wonder if she/he got into any trouble because of this.

This was the updated article:
http://www.wisconsingazette.com/wisconsin-gaze/shawano-school-paper-runs-hate-column.html

Starqueg · June 2012

I support the right to free speech, but this article really bothers me. I don't think that a pubblic school paper should publish articles citing the Bible as law. The stoning verse bothers me for obvious reasons, and I don't think that a school paper is the appropriate setting for it. In a community where publishing this article was seen as acceptable I worry that homophobia is acceptable and possibly encouraged. I really hope that the author of this article is one of the few in his commnuity who feels this way, but I doubt it.

brandichamberlain · June 2012

I'm curious about this (and we want more discussion, right?) : Do you think the article with the views that oppose this was inappropriate to put in the newspaper also?

Summer2011Bride · June 2012

Yeah I agree about the advisor. I wonder where he/she fit into all of this. I also have not known a student paper in a HS to run sans adult advisor. LIke Sesh said, running an opposing article at least shows both sides. And I am not against running "controversial" or "difficult" topics because I think it's important to have smart discussions about them.

I just think in this instance, the advisor (wherever they were) should have known this is not necessarily appropriate for a HS newspaper. It's all about time and place.

DNAtime · June 2012

K-12 minor students in school or school related activities do not have rights like adults do. They are subject to search and seizure, they do not have freedom of speech, etc. i have this discussion with my students pretty regularly.

There is also a difference between freedom of speech and what you publish in a newspaper. I mean you can write the column and disperse it under freedom of speech but the editor/owner/advisor doesn't have to print it and carry your banner so to speak. By not publishing or removing a piece like this you aren't denying the author free speech, that author is free to go speak it else where.

Starmusica · June 2012

I believe freedom of speech has been restricted in high schools but of course if the shcool let them publish.. they had every right. That sad I agree with NOTHING in it and think the kids that wrote it are a-holes but hopefully this controversy will open their eyes a bit. It's doubtful but we can hope.

Starqueg · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_since-its-a-tad-slowarticle?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:0e0e5cbc-b597-4b35-8afd-55532571e35fPost:3b33fcc9-502c-482c-865c-53ccda8bf499">Re: Since it's a tad slow...article</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm curious about this (and we want more discussion, right?) : Do you think the article with the views that oppose this was inappropriate to put in the newspaper also?
Posted by brandichamberlain[/QUOTE]
My problem with the article was the Bible verses and the hatred, so no, I don't have a problem with the opposing article. I don't think that public schools are an appropriate place to cite a religious text as law. I also don't think that public schools should publish anything that encourages hatred.

acaponi87 · June 2012

After going back and forth in my head a bunch, I think I'm okay with it.

Incredibly poor judgment on the part of the school/newspaper but it was done in the "Opinion" section and there was an opposing opinion printed along with it. Hopefully it just made the author sound like an ass.

Starqueg · June 2012

If it gets discussed in class, yes, it's a good example. However, how many high school teachers read the school paper?

brandichamberlain · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_since-its-a-tad-slowarticle?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:0e0e5cbc-b597-4b35-8afd-55532571e35fPost:51620642-ee86-4473-8f21-87786f45c426">Re: Since it's a tad slow...article</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Since it's a tad slow...article : My problem with the article was the Bible verses and the hatred, so no, I don't have a problem with the opposing article. I don't think that public schools are an appropriate place to cite a religious text as law. I also don't think that public schools should publish anything that encourages hatred.
Posted by Starqueg[/QUOTE]

I just don't know if the intent was to encourage hatred, KWIM? It was posted with the view point from the other side. I think that there can be opposing view points (for many reasons, apparently this students is religion) without it automatically being hatred.

Like I said before, I don't agree with what he said, and it probably wasn't the most appropriate thing for a school newspaper, but he should be allowed to express his opinion.

acaponi87 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_since-its-a-tad-slowarticle?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:0e0e5cbc-b597-4b35-8afd-55532571e35fPost:7125fa3a-72bd-4eaf-aad0-98c04ac234a4">Re: Since it's a tad slow...article</a>:
[QUOTE]If it gets discussed in class, yes, it's a good example. However, how many high school teachers read the school paper?
Posted by Starqueg[/QUOTE]

Probably more than you think. It's usually short and it's a good way to see what's going on at your school without actually going to a ton of events (sports games, concerts, etc.). When I was subbing in so many districts this year I'd grab 1 whenever I could..gives you stuff to connect with the students about.

LetsHikeToday · June 2012

I don't think bible verses should be used in a public school newspaper.

mkrupar · June 2012

"Jesus states in the Bible that homosexuality is (a) detestable act and sin which makes adopting wrong for homosexuals because you would be raising the child in a sin-filled environment."

I don't believe Jesus actually talked about homosexuality in the bible. I hate when people misquote/misinterpret things to get their beliefs/view points across.

What about those children who are born to one half of a homosexual couple? Like my siblings and I. We were born into a married household, but ended up being raised by my dad and his partner. Is it only adopted kids that get "confused"?

As far as whether or not the article should have been posted, I don't think either of them should have been. I don't care that there was an opposing opinion, this kind of hate filled debate only adds fuel to people's fire. People who agree with this side of the argument aren't going to give a flying fart about the opposing view point, even if it's printed right next to the other one.

brandichamberlain · June 2012

This whole conversation reminds me of this video:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/03/zach-wahls-defends-gay-ma_n_818194.html

adamar15 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_since-its-a-tad-slowarticle?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:0e0e5cbc-b597-4b35-8afd-55532571e35fPost:45277cff-f73d-420e-81ab-7f99c8f2aa0c">Re: Since it's a tad slow...article</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Since it's a tad slow...article :I just don't know if the intent was to encourage hatred, KWIM? It was posted with the view point from the other side. I think that there can be opposing view points (for many reasons, apparently this students is religion) without it automatically being hatred. Like I said before, I don't agree with what he said, and it probably wasn't the most appropriate thing for a school newspaper, but he should be allowed to express his opinion.
Posted by brandichamberlain[/QUOTE]

People who encourage hatred rarely label it as such.

gurrlballa10 · June 2012

@MK...they actually were a part of one half of a married household at one point I believe. In the second article I linked, it stated that the partners and the kids lived in one apartment, and right next door was the ex-wife (who is now the best friend). I don't know if that means the kids were conceived in that marriage, but that's what it leads me to believe.

I agree 100% with LHT.

The student who wrote the controversial piece was a 16 year old. The kid who brought it home to show his dads was 13. Do you think the age the kid is plays a role in how open the dads become about talking about how the world percieves their family?

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

If you think students shouldn't be allowed to write their opinions in their own school newspaper then maybe we should take away their editorials section? Um... actually, no. I have no problems with the paper publishing what the kids wrote. No one has to agree with it, but I do actually applaud the students who put the articles together. They tackled a tough and very polarizing issue, presented both sides and while they were opinion pieces they cited sources, all of which they'd be expected of at an actual journalism job. Maybe their opinions make them pretty assholey but I do think it should be protected speech. It's not like the students were publishing "How to make a bomb and blow up the school" or "All gays, Jews, Muslims and black people should die." And fwiw I'd rather see students writing about this stuff than "Cafeteria Food: Should we be served pizza from Dominoes, or square shingles with cheesey slime?"

I don't agree with the article. Also I think they wrote it because they probably knew it would be controversial. Editorial sections are often littered with content that is controversial and gets people talking. Oh, and look at this? A thread about it. Mission accomplished.

mkrupar · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_since-its-a-tad-slowarticle?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:0e0e5cbc-b597-4b35-8afd-55532571e35fPost:8255f797-df1a-4429-9c4b-a34d2858f56c">Re: Since it's a tad slow...article</a>:
[QUOTE]@MK...they actually were a part of one half of a married household at one point I believe. In the second article I linked, it stated that the partners and the kids lived in one apartment, and right next door was the ex-wife (who is now the best friend). I don't know if that means the kids were conceived in that marriage, but that's what it leads me to believe. I agree 100% with LHT. The student who wrote the controversial piece was a 16 year old. The kid who brought it home to show his dads was 13. Do you think the age the kid is plays a role in how open the dads become about talking about how the world percieves their family?
Posted by gurrlballa10[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's an age thing, but I think the parents might have had a different approach to talking with their children about their alternative family, then handing them an article about how adopted kids in gay families will grow up to be "confused". Their opportunity to approach this subject they way they may have intended was taken away from them because of the article.

And I can only imagine the 16 y/o who wrote the article has been fed that information from his ignorant parents/family.

gurrlballa10 · June 2012

AATB, I was really looking forward to your thoughts on this. It gives us the journalistic side of things that I don't think a lot of people (general pop) take into their views.

Summer2011Bride · June 2012

I think the students writing the articles and it getting published and distributed are two different things. Again, I think the responsibility mainly comes back to the adult (whoever they are) who is in charge of the paper. I've never known a HS paper to not have a teacher or other advisor check the paper before it goes to print.

It is important to let students have intelligent discussions about difficult topics. However, it is still a school. A HS does not equal real life to me. In real life, a student (or anyone) can walk around in short shorts or with their pants hanging down below their butt. At most schools (including mine) there are dress codes that give consequences for dressing this way.

At the end of every year, I let my seniors watch a movie in class the last two days. They always argue they want to watch an "R" movie because they're old enough to and see them on the weekends anyway. Yes, true, but I still won't let them. Having kids watch movies on their own volition outside of school is different than a teacher condoning a movie with sex, nudity, and language and showing it to them in the classroom.

When students go to a school and enroll in a class or extracurricular, to me, they are saying they are OK with the limitations, regulations, and rules of that particular place/sport/activity. What's OK outside of a high school classroom or newspaper is not always OK inside of it. To me, it comes back to time and place. If the teacher let the students write these articles in class, it still didn't mean it had to get published and distributed (I have my newspaper staffers write a variety of articles and not all get published). Plus, this advisor had to know it would not go over well with the school and community. Maybe it's just because I teach in a VERY conservative community, but I would not publish this, knowing it would come back not just on the students and the newspaper but on me. Fair or not, that's the way it works. The community funds the school; they're going to complain about something "out of line" in the newspaper. And yes, pretty much every teacher in my school reads our paper and it gets distributed also in our local paper, so most community members read it. I probably have a different experience because of this, but I am hyper-vigilant about what gets published because in my community, people will complain about a lot less than this article.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

I don't think the subject matter in the article was 'R' rated.

Summer2011Bride · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_since-its-a-tad-slowarticle?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:0e0e5cbc-b597-4b35-8afd-55532571e35fPost:606b448b-1076-4d6d-a5bd-297a44a4defc">Re: Since it's a tad slow...article</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think the subject matter in the article was 'R' rated.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

I don't think it is either. But I think any teacher (or student--as you said, these students probably knew it would cause an uproar) knows that running this would probably not go over well in the community, and that they could get in trouble with the higher-ups of the district. Running it and then complaining about it getting "banned" (since it said they removed the article from future issues) seems silly since they knew full well going in this is probably what would happen.

futuremrsbruno · June 2012

I was the advisor for our school paper this year while the regular advisor and teacher was out on maternity/family leave. I can tell you that I was told from day 1, what things could not go in the paper. I would say that most school newspapers do not have the same freedom of speech rights as actual newspapers. (even if they are actually protected under the amendment) I was told the content needs to be school appropriate.

That being said, it made things very tough. Students at my school tend to write about things that annoy them within the school. The comment section in the first paper we produced was not very well received because of some opinion articles about the different policies and rule changes to the school year. I felt they had every right to argue it, and I thought the articles were done in an intelligent way. I was shot down and there were no other comment articles like those for the rest of the year.

I think the argument could be made about the seperation of church and state since this looks like a public school, but if the parents were to take some sort of legal action, I do think the first amendment would possibly hold up in this argument. And it did seem to be a pro vs. con thing going on with the article.

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