Is This Tactful?

specialk84 · April 2012

Guys, it's been cleared up a few times, but the rapist she's cheating with is not the dude who raped her. He raped someone else. It still sucks, but she's not dating her rapist.

Edit: Jesus Christ, I had an epic reading fail.

SarahPLiz · April 2012

If, as you stated in the first few paragraphs, that she hasn't spoken to you in a while and you haven't spoken to her in a while, why do you feel the need to open this wound up with a long rambling email. Let sleeping dogs lie. If she's not speaking to you, then she doesn't want to be friends anymore. If her reasons REALLY don't matter, as you stated, then why even send the letter?

I think this is something you type out but never ever send. It can be therapeutic, but it serves no purpose at all to actually send this to her.

redheadfsu · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:ee044917-06a7-4875-a9a6-d0a02317653e">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]There is a lot of back story, and i didn't want to drag all of that out. It's not posted anywhere. I know that having someone no longer in the wedding is a friendship breaking move. I also am a firm believer that, while it's none of my business what someone else does in his/her life, if you can't respect it, you shouldn't be friends. That's pretty much the case here. I can't respect her decisions. It's not her fault. It's not mine. We're just in two different spheres and no longer compatible as friends. I'm admittedly a coward because I can't do this in person, or by phone. I hate confrontation and probably would have let this go with no communication whatsoever all the way until after the wedding. I thought this was better. Maybe not. To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist. Also, she is living with that man, refusing to get a job, and is letting him foot all her bills. I refuse to have his money play a hand in any involvement to her being part of the wedding. It's a moot point really, <strong>because I can't respect her any longer to maintain friendship anyway.
</strong>Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

If you refuse to see or call her.

Just email the truth:

Sally,

I'm emailing you this because we haven't spoken in awhile and I can't bring myself to call you. While we had a very wonderful friendship in the past, however, because of recent events are friendship is irreparable. There is no reason to go into the nasty details about why the friendship has ended, I'm sure you can guess why. I wish you and your kids the best in the future.

sarabellam · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:ee044917-06a7-4875-a9a6-d0a02317653e">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE] To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist. Also, she is living with that man, refusing to get a job, and is letting him foot all her bills. I refuse to have his money play a hand in any involvement to her being part of the wedding. It's a moot point really, because I can't respect her any longer to maintain friendship anyway.
Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

Sounds like your friend is messed up, and you sound like a judgemental douche in your OP.

[Deleted User] · April 2012

I actually agree with you about ending the friendship. I wouldn't support my friend cheating either, and I certainly wouldn't be willing to sit around and watch her be lovey-dovey with her rapist. The girl has issues, but it's not up to you to fix them.

I also have absolutely no problem not wanting to invite a felon to your wedding. No way in hell would I invite a rapist to my wedding, whether he'd served his time or not.

That being said, the letter is too much. It's too long, makes you sound like the bad guy, and just won't go over well. Either send a short letter, or just let the friendship fade on its own.

cpm1223 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:ee044917-06a7-4875-a9a6-d0a02317653e">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]There is a lot of back story, and i didn't want to drag all of that out. It's not posted anywhere. I know that having someone no longer in the wedding is a friendship breaking move. I also am a firm believer that, while it's none of my business what someone else does in his/her life, if you can't respect it, you shouldn't be friends. That's pretty much the case here. I can't respect her decisions. It's not her fault. It's not mine. We're just in two different spheres and no longer compatible as friends. I'm admittedly a coward because I can't do this in person, or by phone. I hate confrontation and probably would have let this go with no communication whatsoever all the way until after the wedding. I thought this was better. Maybe not. <strong>To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist. </strong>Also, she is living with that man, refusing to get a job, and is letting him foot all her bills. I refuse to have his money play a hand in any involvement to her being part of the wedding. It's a moot point really, because I can't respect her any longer to maintain friendship anyway.
Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

The man she's seeing IS in fact her rapist....

lbarr088 · April 2012

Ditto Eagles.

Also, am I weird because I don't want to write someone an email/novel about why we are ending a friendship? IMO, if it's not going to work, it's not going to work and I think it's more catty to lay out 50,000 reasons of why that person sucks and you can't be friends with them.

I must be weird.

ahhhitsshannyn · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:6360ead7-e69c-4a35-82b0-d6259dc541b2">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]Guys, it's been cleared up a few times, but the rapist she's cheating with is not the dude who raped her. He raped someone else. It still sucks, but she's not dating her rapist.
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. <strong>That man</strong>, not her husband,<strong> is her rapist</strong>.

Am I still reading this wrong? Her friend is living with the rapist. Right? I'm confused now.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:ee044917-06a7-4875-a9a6-d0a02317653e">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]There is a lot of back story, and i didn't want to drag all of that out. It's not posted anywhere. I know that having someone no longer in the wedding is a friendship breaking move. I also am a firm believer that, while it's none of my business what someone else does in his/her life, if you can't respect it, you shouldn't be friends. That's pretty much the case here. I can't respect her decisions. It's not her fault. It's not mine. We're just in two different spheres and no longer compatible as friends. I'm admittedly a coward because I can't do this in person, or by phone. I hate confrontation and probably would have let this go with no communication whatsoever all the way until after the wedding. I thought this was better. Maybe not.<strong> To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist.</strong> Also, she is living with that man, refusing to get a job, and is letting him foot all her bills. I refuse to have his money play a hand in any involvement to her being part of the wedding. It's a moot point really, because I can't respect her any longer to maintain friendship anyway.
Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

Special - it sounds like he IS her rapist?

sarabellam · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:6360ead7-e69c-4a35-82b0-d6259dc541b2">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]Guys, it's been cleared up a few times, but the rapist she's cheating with is not the dude who raped her. He raped someone else. It still sucks, but she's not dating her rapist.
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

Special, that's not at all how I'm reading her post at the bottom of page 1.

[QUOTE] To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist.Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

Meegles4 · April 2012

You're flip flopping (which someone else mentioned as well). You go from completely disrespecting her and her choices to telling her how amazing she is and how that opinion won't change.

Definitely needs to be a shorter message. It takes you 8 paragraphs to get to the point -- that you're cutting her out of the WP. Personally, I'd lead with that because I have a feeling all the other stuff has already been hashed out in some way between you two. Sure you can mention it all to back up your reasoning for not having her in the WP, but the detail is overkill.

Also, definitely prepare for this relationship to end, for her to be pissed, and for her to tell all of your mutual friends.

specialk84 · April 2012

Yeah, I had an epic reading fail. I edited my post.

OliveOilsMom · April 2012

After reading your update OP, I would still go to Eagles wording on your email. She knows what is going on in her life and reading what Eagles put, she will know why the friendship ended. It also gives her the opening to contact you again, if she realizes what she is doing is destructive to herself and her kids - she could seek you out for help to pull her life back together.

sarabellam · April 2012

Also, did anyone else think of Stockholm Syndrome here?

specialk84 · April 2012

I'm thinking of the SVU episode where Julie Bowen's character married the man who raped her, but she didn't know it was him.

*shudders*

Meegles4 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:9bf409da-c5db-4cb2-99f1-3b8a44b95acc">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm thinking of the SVU episode where Julie Bowen's character married the man who raped her, but she didn't know it was him. *shudders*
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

I totally remember this episode!

And yeah, this whole situation gives me the heebie jeebies. OP, I can understand why you feel weird about this relationship, and I really can't relate having never been in her position or yours. If you feel the friendship is over, that's cool, but I'd like to hope that if I go and eff up my life like your friend has that my best friend would still be there for me, regardless of how she feels about the choices I've made.

em01092 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:5ec99476-42ad-4c98-8aa3-f6e49658f106">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]Dude, I totally get this. I'm currently not speaking with my aunt because she's cheating on my uncle with a homeless bum (well that and she's a raging alchy). She raves to me about how in a family love is supposed to be unconditional - but I mean, I do love her. I just can't support her hot mess of a life and I don't want to surround myself with it or concern myself with it. I did not, however, write her a long ass email about this. <strong>You need to be more concise, less judgy. I did leave an open door for my aunt - I told her, I will always love you, and when you get your life together I am here for you. That's the best I can do. You don't have to be friends with her anymore if you don't want, but don't give her that long fuckyou of an email.</strong>
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

<div>Agreed.</div>

pokepoke27 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:1c73b9b5-b8ac-4fdf-8b20-fa0045d490ae">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]Maybe I am an awful person for thinking this, but she sounds like a habitual liar who may have embellished the details of her "rape." If she is now happy and living with this man, and cheated on her husband and father of her children with him, it seems like she had a bitter breakup and wanted to make up details for everyone to hate him. I have known a couple of people who make up awful lies just to get people to like them or to get attention. <strong>I just cant see how a woman was raped, went on to be married and have kids, and somehow end up cheating on her husband and moving in and being in love with said rapist.</strong>
Posted by ahhhitsshannyn[/QUOTE]

<div>It is possible. Very possible actually. My aunt has lived this. She was young and went to a party. She met a drug dealer and slept with him. She became pregnant and told him, and he beat her when she refused to have an abortion. She had the child by herself and married another man that molested her daughter. She was raped and the man ended up going to jail for her rape and the rape of several other women. She wrote the rapist a letter of forgiveness (she is very religious and believes strongly in forgiveness) and included in the letter that he is not the first man to wrong her. He wrote back with an apology and sympathy. She fell in love with him through writing letters back and forth. The man got out and never contacted her again - the letters were obviously BS. </div><div>
</div><div>The point is - people that have the capacity to rape are also very manipulative. Women that are raped are often very vulnerable. My aunt was obviously not in a good place psychologically and easily taken in. </div>

[Deleted User] · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:ee044917-06a7-4875-a9a6-d0a02317653e">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]There is a lot of back story, and i didn't want to drag all of that out. It's not posted anywhere. I know that having someone no longer in the wedding is a friendship breaking move. I also am a firm believer that, while it's none of my business what someone else does in his/her life, if you can't respect it, you shouldn't be friends. That's pretty much the case here. I can't respect her decisions. It's not her fault. It's not mine. We're just in two different spheres and no longer compatible as friends. <strong>I'm admittedly a coward because I can't do this in person, or by phone. I hate confrontation and probably would have let this go with no communication whatsoever all the way until after the wedding. I thought this was better. Maybe not</strong>. To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist. Also, she is living with that man, refusing to get a job, and is letting him foot all her bills. I refuse to have his money play a hand in any involvement to her being part of the wedding. It's a moot point really, because I can't respect her any longer to maintain friendship anyway.
Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is cowardly. It's also cruel. If you are going to say all of this to her, she has a right to respond to you. If you feel the need to get all of this off your chest, you OWE it to her to let her respond. Seriously. If you can't handle that, just say "i'm sorry, but I don't feel I can continue this friendship with you" and leave it at that. If you dig up a bunch of serious painful shiz, you can't just say it and run away. That's cowardly, cruel, and incredibly selfish.

specialk84 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:7625874a-df03-4c2e-89bf-bed323d7efe5">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is This Tactful? : It is possible. Very possible actually. My aunt has lived this. She was young and went to a party. She met a drug dealer and slept with him. She became pregnant and told him, and he beat her when she refused to have an abortion. She had the child by herself and married another man that molested her daughter. She was raped and the man ended up going to jail for her rape and the rape of several other women. She wrote the rapist a letter of forgiveness (she is very religious and believes strongly in forgiveness) and included in the letter that he is not the first man to wrong her. He wrote back with an apology and sympathy. She fell in love with him through writing letters back and forth. The man got out and never contacted her again - the letters were obviously BS. The point is - people that have the capacity to rape are also very manipulative. <strong>Women that are raped are often very vulnerable.</strong> My aunt was obviously not in a good place psychologically and easily taken in.
Posted by pokepoke27[/QUOTE]

<div>You don't know that. That's an awfully broad generalization.</div>

bellabananas · April 2012

Who is your friend going to turn to when things get bad? It sounds like she is in a really bad place (thanks for the clarification that she is in fact dating her rapist) and needs someone. People made bad decisions but part of being a friend means helping them to see how they might be damaging their lives and being able to support them. (IMO) Have you talked to her about seeing a counselor about all of the emotional things going on? I couldn't imagine dating my first, let alone someone who raped me. I'm really concerned for your friend. I know you feel like you can't be friends anymore, but if there was ever anyone in need of a real support system it's her!

SarahPLiz · April 2012

If she's not talking to you, then why do you even feel the need to tell her how you feel about her life choices. If she wanted to know why you don't talk anymore, she'd ask. She obviously doesn't. I dont see what sending this email, or any email at all, would accomplish.

cpm1223 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:048abbdc-d4c4-48f6-846a-8daaf2810822">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is This Tactful? : I totally remember this episode! And yeah, this whole situation gives me the heebie jeebies. OP, I can understand where you're coming from here, and I really can't relate. <strong>If you feel the friendship is over, that's cool, but I'd like to hope that if I go and eff up my life like your friend has that my best friend would still be there for me, regardless of how she feels about the choices I've made.
</strong>Posted by Meegles4[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with this. I don't think that you should put your feelings aside and ignore the fact that what she is doing is probably a terrible idea and something she will most likely regret. But she's your "best friend" so I think you need to talk to her about this, in person, even if you're reading it off of a piece of paper!

I think you're well within your rights to voice your concerns about her well being (not in a judgy way at all) and tell her that you're upset with her decision. But it sounds like she's in a really bad place in her life right now and might need her "best friend" when this all turns worse (which I'm only assuming it will, but I could be wrong)

Megbo2012 · April 2012

OMG.

pokepoke27 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:d51e6224-91a9-45fb-9115-1b24aa738f2d">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is This Tactful? : You don't know that. That's an awfully broad generalization.
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

<div>Not really. I didn't say "All women that are raped are vulnerable afterwards so it's very easy to imagine that they'll fall into a relationship with a bad guy and spend the rest of their life in misery." That would be a braod generalization. </div><div>
</div><div>Even if I didn't have experience with dealing with women who have been raped, I would think that it's common sense that after something so traumatic a person would be emotionally raw and in psychological termoil. Everyone handles that differently - I am very well aware of that. </div>

Snippylynn · April 2012

It's weird to me that sooo many of you think you should just be there. I will be there for my friends, and I will sure as hell help them in any situation-- until they become self destructive and there becomes the possibility that I will get sucked into it.

There's a huge difference between loving someone and wanting to be a part of their life.

Johan&Kimmie · April 2012

OP, you've received some excellent advice here. I think you should listen to it. To condense:

1) Grow a backbone and give your friend the courtesy of speaking to her in person and allowing her the chance to respond.

2) If you can't do that either just say nothing and allow the relationship to continue fizzling out or use Eagles wording if you feel you must say something

bellabananas · April 2012

Oh I didn't even know there was another page. I really need to drink more coffee before posting! Stockholm Syndrome and her/him being manipulative liars definitely has me wondering. Either way, I'm not living your life so I don't have the right to tell you what to do. I would note that seem to be unsure if you want to do this? You even wrote in your letter that you may someday come back and apologize to her for all this.

midgetthemighty · April 2012

If I were your friend receiving this extremely lengthy and judgy e-mail, I wouldn't get very far before I just shut down and stopped reading. I'm sure she knows why you stopped talked to her. If she didn't know/cared, she would have asked you a long time ago.

Pushing her away and opening old wounds is only going to make things worse for her. Shan also brought up a good point. She could have been lying about this whole situation.

Also, I have a friend who's cheating on her husband. I don't like it at all, but I'm also being her friend and trying to help her through this.

SarahPLiz · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:f232ab6b-ea03-451a-a24e-1a104c372d2d">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is This Tactful? : This is what I was thinking.
Posted by edielaura[/QUOTE]
See? If the friend was pestering OP, wanting to know why she wasn't speaking to her, hanging out etc, then I think a response and conversation would be necessary. If she isn't, then there is no reason to have this convo. Nothing positive can come of it. I dated an emotionally abusive asshat for 6 years and lost a lot of friends over it, but none of them had to tell me why. I knew. I just chose him. And it was a mistake. <div>
</div><div>When I came out of my fog, I apologized to my friends and rebuilt friendships with them. Had one of them sent me a judgy email like this, telling me stuff I already knew and beating me down just to make themselves feel better, I don't think I would have bothered continuing the relationship later on. </div>

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