photographer disaster- update- pics gone forever

jenna8984

Sorry this is going to be long but I feel like all the info is necessary.

I've mentioned this on here 2 months ago. We had a very small, low budget wedding. We thought it would have been crazy to spend $2,000 on the entire wedding and then $2,000 on a local photographer. So we hired my friend, who is a professional wedding photographer but she does it as a weekend job (not her main job). She had lots of great reviews and we love her style. I do consider her a best friend, we are incredibly close and trust each other like sisters. For that reason, we didn't do a contract (I KNOW MISTAKE). I paid for her $300 flight here, boarded her at my house, took her around on non-wedding days showing her the ocean and all things she had never seen, really went out of my way to make it a good trip for her. I also gave her $500 cash even though she didn't ask for it- I want her to know that I appreciated her and her work and her time that she would put into editing and whatnot.

A few days after the wedding, she sent me about 4 pictures as a teaser so I'd have something for instant gratification (pretty standard for photographers to do). I knew she did a lot of wedding this fall and I didn't want to bug her, so I waited about 3 months before I said anything. At that time, December, I said "Hey, are the pictures done yet? I was really hoping to put them in albums for Christmas gifts for parents". She said I'll email you 1 of each parents and grandparents. I was like "why can't I just get them all on a disc so I can chose the ones I want?" She said something about them being in raw format and they weren't all ready to be put on a disc. I said ok fine and she sent about 5 pictures over email. I kept saying I was still missing the one of H's grammy but she never sent that.

While I was in the salon getting my hair done for the wedding, she took a few pictures of the stylist's preemie newborn (good friend of mine). The stylist emailed her around Christmas also asking if she could get a print to make as a gift and my photographer replied to her that there was a hard drive crash and she lost the pictures. When stylist told me this- I absolutely lost my mind and started bawling. Her pics were taken the same day as mine, so that meant mine were gone too, right? I called her trying to be calm but told her I was sick to my stomach and needed an answer as to the fate of my pictures. She assured me that they were not lost and they were backed up twice, but her laptop was at the shop so even though they are not lost, she can't work on them. I told her if they are lost, do not lie to me and fuck with my emotions while you try to recover them- just tell me straight up right now. She said no, I swear to God yours are not lost. This conversation was two months ago.

Still no pictures. It's now been 5 months since the wedding. I tried to ask her again about 2 weeks ago. I said "Are the pictures going to be ready soon? I don't mean to pester you but I'm really anxious and looking forward to finally seeing them". She said once again- my computer is still in the shop but I'll do them as soon as I get it back. I'm at a breaking point here and I really don't know how to proceed. I've never heard of someone's computer being in the shop for months, usually those things take about a week. I'm still holding the faith right now that she's my friend and she's not lying to me about losing the pictures. But it's really giving me bad anxiety over it and I just want them. I don't know if I try to say anything more stern to her or if I just keep riding it out. I mean how fucking long do I keep waiting and being nice and acting like it's fine? It's not fine with me, I feel really hurt and taken advantage of because I don't think she'd treat a normal "client" this way. But I'm in a hard place because I don't want to say anything that will piss her off and risk never getting my photos. Do you have any shred of advice?

AprilH81

This is a horrible situation all around and it is made worse because this is a friend.

I don't think there is anything you can do.  You don't have a contract so it will be difficult, if not impossible to sue her.  If the pictures are lost due to a hard drive crash there is nothing you can do.

IF she backed them up it should be to an external device so there really is not excuse.  The external device (USB, backup hard drive, etc.) can be plugged in to ANY computer.

My gut says she lost them in the crash and she doesn't want to tell you.  

NavyBlue143

Do you have any emails confirming she was doing your pictures and an expected completion date? Anything in writing at all? Many states honor a verbal contract, but if she wants to claim you never agreed, you never paid her, etc etc, it can be very hard to prove. Personally I would tell her the friendship has suffered because I felt she was lying to me. The friendship would be over if I didn't get my pictures by x date. 5 months is too long to not have seen anything.

thisismynickname2

Ok. Let's think this through. Can you compile all the evidence in a bullet-point manner and send it to her?

"- x date, I heard your computer crashed

- x date, you told me you backed up the photos separate from your laptop

- x date, you said your laptop was still in shop

Can you show me the disc/thumb drive/etc where you backed up the photos? Plug into my computer? I'll download xyz photo editing software?"

Take emotion out of things and go into problem-solving mode. I wouldn't reveal to her how upset you are, but I would come up with every solution you can possibly think of to prompt her to show you that your photos are not actually gone. 

Sending hugs your way. I have photo drama myself, as do two other couples who used the same photographer. It's horrific not having these memories captured and no, refunds don't cut it, definitely not. 

ETA: I just realized you don't live in the same place as she does. You can't go to her house and see her laptop or whatever. Do you have any other friends in the area that can do reconnaissance? It sounds devious of course, because it is, but come on now. Do you have any trips planned to go there?  

jenna8984

NavyBlue143 said:

Do you have any emails confirming she was doing your pictures and an expected completion date? Anything in writing at all? Many states honor a verbal contract, but if she wants to claim you never agreed, you never paid her, etc etc, it can be very hard to prove. Personally I would tell her the friendship has suffered because I felt she was lying to me. The friendship would be over if I didn't get my pictures by x date. 5 months is too long to not have seen anything.

The thing is, I don't wish to take any legal action. If more time goes by and she eventually does tell me that the pictures are lost, I will ask her to pay me back. But if she doesn't, I will just end the friendship and move on with my life. I'm not suing anybody over $800.

What I am trying to accomplish is setting that end date. At what point in time do I say enough is enough, tell me the truth/ pay me back/ etc. Do I just keep waiting on her a few more months, or do I say something to her with some sort of deadline?

@thisismynickname That's probably a viable solution. To ask her where they are backed up and if she can do them on her mom's computer or someone else's computer just to get me a disc unedited. She's 2,000 miles from me and and not near anything so I am not visiting that area and don't know anyone else who lives there.

SmileDamnit

Craptastic situation to be in. Man, I feel for you. You say she is a close friend and like a sister to you, so if that's the case, you've got to have a come to Jesus convo with the girl. Stop beating around the bush and directly ask her if you are going to see your pictures or if they lost. If she's adamant about not having lost them, then get a firm date from her. She might remain uncooperative, but I think it's time to put some real pressure on her to step up.

thisismynickname2

Another question-- if she's actually a pro, where is her wedding website? Where is her portfolio? Does she have a photo blog? SmugMug? Pictage? Can you tell if she's completed other work for people who got married after you? That might be indicative if she truly lost yours or not, or if she's delaying you (taking advantage of you) in order to get other paying customers done on time. 

badbnagdway

jenna8984 said:

NavyBlue143 said:

Do you have any emails confirming she was doing your pictures and an expected completion date? Anything in writing at all? Many states honor a verbal contract, but if she wants to claim you never agreed, you never paid her, etc etc, it can be very hard to prove. Personally I would tell her the friendship has suffered because I felt she was lying to me. The friendship would be over if I didn't get my pictures by x date. 5 months is too long to not have seen anything.

The thing is, I don't wish to take any legal action. If more time goes by and she eventually does tell me that the pictures are lost, I will ask her to pay me back. But if she doesn't, I will just end the friendship and move on with my life. I'm not suing anybody over $800.

What I am trying to accomplish is setting that end date. At what point in time do I say enough is enough, tell me the truth/ pay me back/ etc. Do I just keep waiting on her a few more months, or do I say something to her with some sort of deadline?

@thisismynickname That's probably a viable solution. To ask her where they are backed up and if she can do them on her mom's computer or someone else's computer just to get me a disc unedited. She's 2,000 miles from me and and not near anything so I am not visiting that area and don't know anyone else who lives there.

This is truly sad. I think you are probably at the point where, five months after the wedding, you can say "enough is enough". I think you need to tell her you can take whatever the truth is, but that she needs to be honest with you so that you can problem solve it together and move forward. I agree, volunteer that you will happily take the photos unedited if needed, you just are fearful of not having any wedding pictures. 

kvruns

thisismynickname said:

Another question-- if she's actually a pro, where is her wedding website? Where is her portfolio? Does she have a photo blog? SmugMug? Pictage? Can you tell if she's completed other work for people who got married after you? That might be indicative if she truly lost yours or not, or if she's delaying you (taking advantage of you) in order to get other paying customers done on time. 

good advice!  stalk whatever places she normally posts teasers or client work (have to imagine it is something, even just a fb page) and see what else is there.  contact other couples if you can figure it out too.

novella1186

SmileDamnit said:

Craptastic situation to be in. Man, I feel for you. You say she is a close friend and like a sister to you, so if that's the case, you've got to have a come to Jesus convo with the girl. Stop beating around the bush and directly ask her if you are going to see your pictures or if they lost. If she's adamant about not having lost them, then get a firm date from her. She might remain uncooperative, but I think it's time to put some real pressure on her to step up.

This. I think it's time to just say, "Look, my wedding photos mean a lot to my family and me, and enough is enough. It's been x months, I'm done waiting. What's even more disappointing is that we had an agreement, as close friends, that you are failing to honor. Tell me where they are backed up, and get them to me by x date. I'm not playing these games anymore." Put your foot down and be very clear about your expectations. 

If she starts to make excuses, like "but my computer is still in the shop," call her on it. "I don't believe you and I'm done with your list of excuses." FI's computer crashed a few weeks ago. He took it to a repair shop and they fixed the problem within a day, and then kept his hard drive to see if they could extract/recover anything from it. They ended up recovering nearly everything, even all of his lost photos, and it was completed within 2 days. And, like it was said earlier in this thread, if the photos are really backed up then they're not on/with the computer anyway. 

If they're still in raw format, she can set up a batch process in Photoshop to re-size them all very quickly. At this point, I would tell her to do that and then to send them ASAP without any further editing because you're done waiting on her. (I had to resort to this in order to get my epics after waiting 6 months for them) 

jenna8984

thisismynickname said:

Another question-- if she's actually a pro, where is her wedding website? Where is her portfolio? Does she have a photo blog? SmugMug? Pictage? Can you tell if she's completed other work for people who got married after you? That might be indicative if she truly lost yours or not, or if she's delaying you (taking advantage of you) in order to get other paying customers done on time. 

@thisismynickname She only has a business FB page. Normally that is where she posts the 4 teaser pictures for people- I saw about 3-4 couples in the fall right after mine but have not seen a post on that account since about November. I had thought of clicking on one of the couples posted right after mine and private messaging them to see if they received theirs. But I just don't want to be shady because what if they tell her I was asking and then she gets mad. Do you think I should message one of them? If I did, I would definitely leave out all my details and just pretend I'm a normal client and curious if they got theirs.

thisismynickname2

jenna8984 said:

thisismynickname said:

Another question-- if she's actually a pro, where is her wedding website? Where is her portfolio? Does she have a photo blog? SmugMug? Pictage? Can you tell if she's completed other work for people who got married after you? That might be indicative if she truly lost yours or not, or if she's delaying you (taking advantage of you) in order to get other paying customers done on time. 

@thisismynickname She only has a business FB page. Normally that is where she posts the 4 teaser pictures for people- I saw about 3-4 couples in the fall right after mine but have not seen a post on that account since about November. I had thought of clicking on one of the couples posted right after mine and private messaging them to see if they received theirs. But I just don't want to be shady because what if they tell her I was asking and then she gets mad. Do you think I should message one of them? If I did, I would definitely leave out all my details and just pretend I'm a normal client and curious if they got theirs.

YES, message them! In my own photo disaster, I messaged a woman who had posted a bad review on Yelp! saying she hadn't gotten her photos. I would have never known I was the only person who got screwed if I hadn't messaged her. Someone else saw her review and messaged her too, and that's how we know that there are three couples who got screwed. It's strengthening our complaints made to consumer protection agencies; if we have to take the last resort step of suing, the fact that there's three of us is going to strengthen things. 

LadyMillil

thisismynickname said:

jenna8984 said:

thisismynickname said:

Another question-- if she's actually a pro, where is her wedding website? Where is her portfolio? Does she have a photo blog? SmugMug? Pictage? Can you tell if she's completed other work for people who got married after you? That might be indicative if she truly lost yours or not, or if she's delaying you (taking advantage of you) in order to get other paying customers done on time. 

@thisismynickname She only has a business FB page. Normally that is where she posts the 4 teaser pictures for people- I saw about 3-4 couples in the fall right after mine but have not seen a post on that account since about November. I had thought of clicking on one of the couples posted right after mine and private messaging them to see if they received theirs. But I just don't want to be shady because what if they tell her I was asking and then she gets mad. Do you think I should message one of them? If I did, I would definitely leave out all my details and just pretend I'm a normal client and curious if they got theirs.

YES, message them! In my own photo disaster, I messaged a woman who had posted a bad review on Yelp! saying she hadn't gotten her photos. I would have never known I was the only person who got screwed if I hadn't messaged her. Someone else saw her review and messaged her too, and that's how we know that there are three couples who got screwed. It's strengthening our complaints made to consumer protection agencies; if we have to take the last resort step of suing, the fact that there's three of us is going to strengthen things. 

I had problems getting my pictures from the photographer as well. He deleted any negative comments off both his personal and business FB pages pretty quickly so other clients had no idea that people were having problems with him. I got lucky and a comment popped up on my newsfeed from another newlywed having the same problems as me. I contacted her and we worked together to try to get our pictures.

OliveOilsMom

I think Novella's Come to Jesus convo is a great place to start.  And when she says her computer is still in the shop call her bullshit and say no shop would still even have your computer after this many months. 

My H does IT and one of the teachers in his district had her laptop crash.  Within a day, he had it restored and was able to "save" all of the documents.  Unfortunetly, the documents were all gibberish due to the crash, so there was nothing to be able to use.  But I would say if she is in a busy city maybe a week for the computer to be in the shop.

theartistformerlyknownas

You're being too nice. "Friend, I know you've had some issues with this but I need my pictures. If your computer is in the shop, you need to do what it takes to get it back. This has gone on for far too long, and I need to have all files, in whatever format you have, by x date." Stop taking "no" or lame excuses as an answer.

jenna8984

Ok I messaged two brides whose weddings were the immediate two after mine. Who knows if they even check their messages but we'll see, I am curious if they have gotten theirs.

I think I'll wait a few days and see if I get a response then either way, move forward with what @novella1186 said. That is basically the wording I was going for because maybe she really thinks I'm chill, I'm her friend, I don't mind. And I want her to know that no, I'm fucking serious.

flutteringinfl

jenna8984 said:

Ok I messaged two brides whose weddings were the immediate two after mine. Who knows if they even check their messages but we'll see, I am curious if they have gotten theirs.

I think I'll wait a few days and see if I get a response then either way, move forward with what @novella1186 said. That is basically the wording I was going for because maybe she really thinks I'm chill, I'm her friend, I don't mind. And I want her to know that no, I'm fucking serious.

What she might be thinking is "I don't want to upset her so I'm going to hold this off as long as I can." Which is not cool. This is 100% her fault but I think you'll have better results if you come at this from a professional standpoint and not an emotional one. I definitely understand the desire to cry at the prospect of not getting your photos, but it might be contributing to her fear of how you'll react if you found out the truth. Again, that's on her to own up and not be a coward no matter your potential reaction, but adjusting your approach might speed things up.

climbingsingle

How far away from you does she live? Because at this point, not even kidding, I would be at her front door. 

jenna8984

climbingwife said:

How far away from you does she live? Because at this point, not even kidding, I would be at her front door. 

I would too if it were driving distance. I'm in MA and she's in frigen Arkansas. I went there to visit her years ago and it was near NOTHING so it's not like I can just swing by on the way to FL or something haha

climbingsingle

jenna8984 said:

climbingwife said:

How far away from you does she live? Because at this point, not even kidding, I would be at her front door. 

I would too if it were driving distance. I'm in MA and she's in frigen Arkansas. I went there to visit her years ago and it was near NOTHING so it's not like I can just swing by on the way to FL or something haha

Crap! 

jenna8984

Follow up question-

One of our mutual friends has actually known this girl since they were 12 (I met both of them when I was 22). So the 2 of them are really close. This girl just got engaged and I have a strong feeling that she's going to ask the photographer to do her wedding/ or the photographer is going to offer it up as a gift.

I don't want to trash her or her business, especially not to mutual friends, BUT I really don't want to see this friend go through what I've gone through. I really want to make her aware of what she's getting into. Do you think I discretely tell the friend about it, or just keep my mouth shut? I don't want to get involved but I also don't want her thinking "Well it turned out great for Jenna's so I have nothing to lose!"

cupcait927

jenna8984 said:

Follow up question-

One of our mutual friends has actually known this girl since they were 12 (I met both of them when I was 22). So the 2 of them are really close. This girl just got engaged and I have a strong feeling that she's going to ask the photographer to do her wedding/ or the photographer is going to offer it up as a gift.

I don't want to trash her or her business, especially not to mutual friends, BUT I really don't want to see this friend go through what I've gone through. I really want to make her aware of what she's getting into. Do you think I discretely tell the friend about it, or just keep my mouth shut? I don't want to get involved but I also don't want her thinking "Well it turned out great for Jenna's so I have nothing to lose!"

I'd wait until you have a concrete answer from your friend about your photos before reaching out to the mutual friend. If it's clear that you are never getting your photos (which is heartbreaking and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this!), then I would definitely say something. I would feel awful if someone else went through the same thing because I didn't give them a heads up.

anjemon

jenna8984 said:

Follow up question-

One of our mutual friends has actually known this girl since they were 12 (I met both of them when I was 22). So the 2 of them are really close. This girl just got engaged and I have a strong feeling that she's going to ask the photographer to do her wedding/ or the photographer is going to offer it up as a gift.

I don't want to trash her or her business, especially not to mutual friends, BUT I really don't want to see this friend go through what I've gone through. I really want to make her aware of what she's getting into. Do you think I discretely tell the friend about it, or just keep my mouth shut? I don't want to get involved but I also don't want her thinking "Well it turned out great for Jenna's so I have nothing to lose!"

I'd probably tell her that you're having issues. Just so she knows. You don't want to her to have the issues you're having without knowing about them ahead of time.

Of course I would probably also send this friend on reconnaissance. If they're already friends it might not be weird if she's asking questions about pictures. And your photographer might open up to her. Does she live in the same area as the photographer?

jenna8984

anjemon said:

jenna8984 said:

Follow up question-

One of our mutual friends has actually known this girl since they were 12 (I met both of them when I was 22). So the 2 of them are really close. This girl just got engaged and I have a strong feeling that she's going to ask the photographer to do her wedding/ or the photographer is going to offer it up as a gift.

I don't want to trash her or her business, especially not to mutual friends, BUT I really don't want to see this friend go through what I've gone through. I really want to make her aware of what she's getting into. Do you think I discretely tell the friend about it, or just keep my mouth shut? I don't want to get involved but I also don't want her thinking "Well it turned out great for Jenna's so I have nothing to lose!"

I'd probably tell her that you're having issues. Just so she knows. You don't want to her to have the issues you're having without knowing about them ahead of time.

Of course I would probably also send this friend on reconnaissance. If they're already friends it might not be weird if she's asking questions about pictures. And your photographer might open up to her. Does she live in the same area as the photographer?

No, unfortunately newly engaged is in AZ, another 1500 miles away from either of us.

novella1186

cupcait927 said:

jenna8984 said:

Follow up question-

One of our mutual friends has actually known this girl since they were 12 (I met both of them when I was 22). So the 2 of them are really close. This girl just got engaged and I have a strong feeling that she's going to ask the photographer to do her wedding/ or the photographer is going to offer it up as a gift.

I don't want to trash her or her business, especially not to mutual friends, BUT I really don't want to see this friend go through what I've gone through. I really want to make her aware of what she's getting into. Do you think I discretely tell the friend about it, or just keep my mouth shut? I don't want to get involved but I also don't want her thinking "Well it turned out great for Jenna's so I have nothing to lose!"

I'd wait until you have a concrete answer from your friend about your photos before reaching out to the mutual friend. If it's clear that you are never getting your photos (which is heartbreaking and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this!), then I would definitely say something. I would feel awful if someone else went through the same thing because I didn't give them a heads up.

This. If I were you, I'd want to save someone else from the same heartache. If I were other bride, I would REALLY appreciate the honest warning. 

thisismynickname2

jenna8984 said:

Follow up question-

One of our mutual friends has actually known this girl since they were 12 (I met both of them when I was 22). So the 2 of them are really close. This girl just got engaged and I have a strong feeling that she's going to ask the photographer to do her wedding/ or the photographer is going to offer it up as a gift.

I don't want to trash her or her business, especially not to mutual friends, BUT I really don't want to see this friend go through what I've gone through. I really want to make her aware of what she's getting into. Do you think I discretely tell the friend about it, or just keep my mouth shut? I don't want to get involved but I also don't want her thinking "Well it turned out great for Jenna's so I have nothing to lose!"

I would say something. I'd even hope it gets back to the photographer. There's a nice way to go about it though. I'd say something like, "Congrats on your engagement, so forth, so on... Hey, um, this is so awkward but I think it has to be said. You know PhotoFriend? She did my photos? Well... she isn't getting them back to me. I'm actually worried they're lost, can you believe it? But yeah, PhotoFriend just keeps telling me her laptop's in the shop. It's so weird. So, I just wanted to alert you, in case you considered using her or any friends as vendors. I feel like I have less recourse here because if I hired someone professionally that I didn't know, I'd be able to take more action here. I'm just at a loss. So anyway, yeah, friends as vendors don't really mix! So have you set a date yet?"

If that got back to the photographer, it's not like you're lying. You're not slandering her because it's the truth. 

jenna8984

I went home last night and cried to DH about it and told him I have stress headaches over it and he said that I am right- enough is enough. So I just sent her a really long message because I know it's the easiest way to get in contact with her and that I wouldn't be able to get everything off my chest over the phone. I was nice, but stern and basically said you need to resolve it now. Use your mom's computer, use a friend's computer, buy a new computer, call the repair company and have them extract it to a disc, just do something. Either tell me they are gone or tell me I'll have it in a week but I cannot stay in limbo any longer.

Uggggh now I feel like I'm gunna barf waiting for her response but it had to be done! I need an answer now so I can move on and stop making myself sick over it.

novella1186

Deep breath. There's nothing you can do right now, so stop making yourself sick. I hope she responds quickly, and I hope you get the answer you're looking for, but no matter what, it is going to be ok. 

flutteringinfl

Good luck! Do something distracting and relaxing.

pinkcow13

I'm really sorry you are going through this crap. Whether or not she has the pics, she is being extremely flaky, and that is not cool. I mean, what kind of business does she have, treating clients this way? I would think she would treat friends better, as they would write her amazing reviews.And, you know, friendship. I really hope she gets back to you and that you get your wedding pictures.

anjemon

I hope you hear something soon and it's good news! I'm slightly stressed just thinking about it, so go do something relaxing or that will take your mind off of things.