Engagment party

PrettyGirlLost

AylaInLove said:

 I'm new here and thought this would be a good place to get some ideas, support and camaraderie.  Nope.
  Where are you getting that it's "In our honor"?  We throw a "Just Because" party or get together and announce our engagement.  How would we not reference that as an "Engagement Party"?  We don't live in the area, everyone would know why were we throwing it, why not just call it what it is?  Once again, semantics.

Why are you being so aggressive and mean?  I know this is the internet, but this is a site about weddings and a forum on etiquette. I'm asking questions, stating my mentality behind them and you're implying some pretty mean and derogatory things.  Not really why I came on here.

Honestly, I'm noticing a lot of people on here get off more on judging others and being more condescending than helpful.  If you think you're helping, you're not.  Maybe leave the advice for someone who has more patience.  

  Yeah, call the whambulance, and when they get here you can explain from your high horse that there's no need for them because people like you chased out the questionable whiners.  Good for you.  You're stronger, smarter and better than me.  I really don't like or need this drama and I would leave all together, but still need the info, so back to lurking.  Have a nice day.

It is AWish and against etiquette to throw gift giving events in your own honor.  Also, everyone who is invited to pre-wedding parties must be invited to the actual wedding otherwise it's rude.

If your SoCal friends and family can't make it to a Northern California wedding, how/why would they make it to an engagement party?  Are you throwing it for yourselves in SoCal?  Are you still going to invite them to the wedding?

NYCBruin

If you really don't want to honor yourselves, then don't call it an engagement party. To use your words, it's just semantics. If you don't think it matters what you call it, why not pick the one that's not making the party all about you?

PolarBearFitz

AylaInLove said:

 I'm new here and thought this would be a good place to get some ideas, support and camaraderie.  Nope.
  Where are you getting that it's "In our honor"?  We throw a "Just Because" party or get together and announce our engagement.  How would we not reference that as an "Engagement Party"?  We don't live in the area, everyone would know why were we throwing it, why not just call it what it is?  Once again, semantics. This is the Etiquette board where semantics matter. This is why you are receiving the advice on how it is rude to throw your own party. I get what you are trying to do to spend time with everyone and that is really nice. So just throw a party and supply food and drinks to get together with those you love. It does not need to be engagement related or for you guys. If you really just want to see everyone it doesn't need to revolve around your event.

Why are you being so aggressive and mean?  I know this is the internet, but this is a site about weddings and a forum on etiquette. I'm asking questions, stating my mentality behind them and you're implying some pretty mean and derogatory things.  Not really why I came on here. I believe the derogatory information is posed at those who are demonstrating extremely selfish behavior in their posts. I haven't seen anyone be mean to you specifically but I could be mistaken. Mentality vs. etiquette is a difficult battle as some things people have the ability to rationalize are still not proper etiquette. Just because a person can make a rational case for something does not make it right.

Honestly, I'm noticing a lot of people on here get off more on judging others and being more condescending than helpful.  If you think you're helping, you're not.  Maybe leave the advice for someone who has more patience. This is an international forum with people from all different locations and places in their lives. Patience isn't really something properly perceived or able to be given via text. Keep in mind the tone you perceive in a post might be your perspective and not the posters. They may have had a completely different tone in mind.

  Yeah, call the whambulance, and when they get here you can explain from your high horse that there's no need for them because people like you chased out the questionable whiners.  Good for you.  You're stronger, smarter and better than me.  I really don't like or need this drama and I would leave all together, but still need the info, so back to lurking.  Have a nice day. Not sure if you know this as you are new (if you do my apologies) but the line about the 'whambulance' is a part of @NYCBruin's signature. I didn't see where she directed this at you specifically as this is something automatic on all of her postings. I think you may be a little sensitive on this one. She does give very good advice. There is no one saying they are better than you or stronger or smarter.

Everyone is trying to help you stick to proper etiquette. I think the drama comes from being overly-sensitive and letting things get to you. Take a deep breath and realize this is an internet forum. No need to be upset.

I am genuinely sorry you feel badly about what has been said here. The advice is to just throw a normal party with your friends and family instead of something about your engagement. That would be the right way to go if you are asking for advice on etiquette.

AylaInLove

Thank you for your responses.  Yes, I am a sensitive person.  I had to be honest though.  The "FFS" and "whorish" verbage just seemed a little over the top.  Not really what I was expecting.  

Also, the placing of facts into what I wrote is disconcerting.  No, I would not invite someone to the party and not the wedding.  I have quite a few older relatives who live in the So Cal area that could travel 20 minutes to a party, but not 7 hours to the wedding.  I know they would appreciate the chance to see who they could and I can't wait for my fiance to meet them. Also, a lot of people wouldn't just go to a 'party', but would make a point to show up to something as important as meeting a new family member or wedding. No gifts would be expected or needed. 

  I suppose semantics and etiquette do go hand in hand.  I'm just a little more literal I guess. I look at it as practical to call a spade a spade.  I'm just going to stop repeating myself and hope that the same way this is taboo is the same way the bride wearing anything but white was taboo and the wedding world just eventually gets over it.  If not, oh well, you only get married once. (hopefully)

  This and the other thread I posted in has really left a bad taste in my mouth, but I will try and stop taking it so personally.  I have to remember that the few who are self-righteously negative it's a reflection on them, not me.  If they think it's their job, I hope they get fired.  And there are those that are very helpful and not so judgmental.   I was hopeful to make friends on here and who knows, maybe there's someone on here who will see this and feels how I feel.  If so, hit me up. Thanks.

Inkdancer

@AylaInLove said:

Also, the placing of facts into what I wrote is disconcerting.  No, I would not invite someone to the party and not the wedding.  I have quite a few older relatives who live in the So Cal area that could travel 20 minutes to a party, but not 7 hours to the wedding.  I know they would appreciate the chance to see who they could and I can't wait for my fiance to meet them. Also, a lot of people wouldn't just go to a 'party', but would make a point to show up to something as important as meeting a new family member or wedding. No gifts would be expected or needed. 

  I suppose semantics and etiquette do go hand in hand.  I'm just a little more literal I guess. I look at it as practical to call a spade a spade.  I'm just going to stop repeating myself and hope that the same way this is taboo is the same way the bride wearing anything but white was taboo and the wedding world just eventually gets over it.  If not, oh well, you only get married once. (hopefully)
 

Semantics are really important here. For your older relatives who can't travel, an "engagement party" is something they're used to seeing as a gift-giving occasion. Throwing that yourself, even if it is intended to be a convenience for them, may come off a selfish. This would especially be an issue for your relatives who haven't met your FI, or your FI's relatives who haven't met you. First impressions are important.

However, there's an easy way to get around this: have a "meet the family" party. Hold it in SoCal near your relatives, and use it as a time to bring your two families together. That way it isn't an official engagement party. It is, instead, a way to honor your families and let them know that you love them and want them to be a part of your new life together with your FI.

Part of the reason wedding etiquette is so involved in semantics is that these events bridge generations. Your friends would probably not be offended by you throwing an engagement party, but your grandparents probably would. It is best to try to work within established etiquette rules so that everyone -- even great-aunt Hilda who you never see -- only sees you in the very best light.

AylaInLove

I LOVE THAT!!!!
 Great idea!!!!!
"Meet the Family"
And you are 100% correct.  I can see how traditions have a certain importance for "bridging generations". That makes a lot of sense.
 Thank you for spelling it out for me.  I can be kind of hard headed!

Inkdancer

Happy to help! I can be a bit stubborn myself sometimes, if it's something that really matters to me.

AroundTheBlock

AylaInLove said:

I think that's dumb. ... We're talking semantics here.  

Semantics ... as @Inkdancer points out, sometimes yes. Etiquette is a non-verbal language and semantics is a field of linguistics, so talking semantics can be  appropriate. Alas, often we are not talking semantics, but hair-splitting. Which can indeed be pretty dumb.

If it's a party we throw and happen to announce our engagement, isn't that an engagement party?  

Yes, absolutely it is. And that is the kind of 'engagement party' that traditional etiquette actually recognizes. When newly engaged, you have some responsibility to let the members of your social circle know that fact, so that they can take it into account when sending out invitations to their own parties. Making the announcement when you have many of your friends and family gathered together at a social event fulfills that responsibility in a way that is both practical, and pleasant. Since you are making the announcement at the party, you wouldn't steal your own thunder by referring to the party ahead of time as an 'engagement party',  but that is certainly how you and your friends would think of it after the fact. Which is perfectly fine.

We want to meet all the friends and family members who have known and loved our s.o. their whole lives.  It's about the people, not the gifts or the location.  I'm really failing to see how it's rude or improper.  But, if it's "wedding etiquette" so be it. 

But like using the right fork, it's one of those things that has a bunch of tradition and snobbery tied into it when it just makes sense to use a fork to eat.  Am I missing something?

Please, please do not blame "tradition" for snobbery and "wedding etiquette". Tradition does not recognize the existence of any such thing as "wedding etiquette". Etiquette is just the code of polite behaviour in society. I imagine that you have been reared to behave politely in everyday society: to say please and thank-you, to treat guests well, to watch your language and not call people names, to leave the room if you need to pick your teeth, and so on. You should use your very best good manners when you plan and conduct your wedding, but you do not need to learn a whole new set of superficial manners that are wedding-specific. And standard etiquette does not cost money -- poor people can be just as polite as wealthy people -- so real good manners actually work against snobbery, rather than to promote it.

You can see that for yourself, if you just look at your own instincts and motivations as you think about having an engagement party. You say "It's about the people, not the gifts" and you think of your motives as "wanting to spend time with friends and family." It does not take a rocket scientist to recognize that these are noble motives, not shameful.

The real problem you are running into -- and that you will have to deal with -- is this notion of "wedding etiquette". In the recent age of ubiquitous informality and extravaganza-celebrity-weddings, many people see formality and ostentation in association with weddings, and not in association with any other part of their everyday lives. They start thinking there are special rules for weddings, some of which are just the everyday rules for formal parties of any sort, and some of which are frankly just made up. An example of a made-up rule is that there is such a thing as a "gift-giving event". Which there is, of course, but the only mandatory gift-giving event is a shower. In fact, standard etiquette often minimizes gift-giving.

Alas, you may have friends and family who are infected by the modern misapprehension that an "engagement party" requires a gift. I tend to think it's the older people who know better than that, and the younger ones who might get hooked by that mistake, but regardless: it puts you in a spot. Do you not offer them hospitality and entertainment -- forgo something that you with your everyday common-sense good manners know would be a nice thing to do? Or do you go ahead and end up extorting gifts out of some of them -- something you would never want to do? And that is, as @Inkdancer points out, a problem that can simply be avoided by calling the party something other than an "engagement party", at least until it's over and done with.

Kauris

bethsmiles said:

It's rude to throw your own engagement party for the same reason it's rude to throw your own bachelorette party or bridal shower. You shouldn't throw a party for yourself where you are the guest of honor (it makes you look like an attention whore) and engagement parties are often seen as gift giving occasion so it can be seen as gift-grabby.

Did anyone mention housewarming parties? Those are typically hosted by the new homeowners, yes? And people typically bring a present, don't they? 

If you invited people over for a party, and THEN announced your engagement, would this be okay? That way there is absolutely no expectation for a present, or is it still rude to have a party and want to tell special people in your life about an exciting thing, in a nice way?

Sorry if this has been covered...

Jen4948

kasmith1 said:

bethsmiles said:

It's rude to throw your own engagement party for the same reason it's rude to throw your own bachelorette party or bridal shower. You shouldn't throw a party for yourself where you are the guest of honor (it makes you look like an attention whore) and engagement parties are often seen as gift giving occasion so it can be seen as gift-grabby.

Did anyone mention housewarming parties? Those are typically hosted by the new homeowners, yes? And people typically bring a present, don't they? 

If you invited people over for a party, and THEN announced your engagement, would this be okay? That way there is absolutely no expectation for a present, or is it still rude to have a party and want to tell special people in your life about an exciting thing, in a nice way?

Sorry if this has been covered...

Housewarming parties are for the purpose of showing off the house, so it doesn't make sense for anyone else to host it but the homeowners.  But, this is not the same as throwing a party in one's honor and that's why it passes etiquette muster.

It is okay to invite people to a party and not announce its purpose in the invitation, and then announce the occasion at the party.  What's not okay is to invite others to a birthday party, shower, engagement party, or any other type of party hosted by yourself where the purpose is to honor yourself, because of that expectation of gifts.

kgd7357

Wow. I've never heard of not being allowed to throw a birthday partyfor yourself. My friend and I threw a joint 25th birthday party last year. We didn't get any gifts (and didn't expect any), but we did host a $1000 open bar tab for friends at a local bar. There was plenty of food and drinks to go around for everyone. I'm pretty sure people were happy to show up and eat and drink on us. Would you really side eye this?

[Deleted User]

kgd7357 said:

Wow. I've never heard of not being allowed to throw a birthday partyfor yourself. My friend and I threw a joint 25th birthday party last year. We didn't get any gifts (and didn't expect any), but we did host a $1000 open bar tab for friends at a local bar. There was plenty of food and drinks to go around for everyone. I'm pretty sure people were happy to show up and eat and drink on us. Would you really side eye this?

I just think these are guidelines. Common sense should always be used!! Obviously requesting gifts and throwing a party for yourself in such a fashion would be side eyed. I do think that a properly hosted party is a properly hosted party and the etiquette guidelines will tell you that it's rude to throw, but no one will side eye a properly hosted party or gracious hosting. And if they do side eye a gracious and properly hosted event because it's a self hosted birthday or engagement party, they are not your real friends.

Inkdancer

@kgd7357 said:

Wow. I've never heard of not being allowed to throw a birthday partyfor yourself. My friend and I threw a joint 25th birthday party last year. We didn't get any gifts (and didn't expect any), but we did host a $1000 open bar tab for friends at a local bar. There was plenty of food and drinks to go around for everyone. I'm pretty sure people were happy to show up and eat and drink on us. Would you really side eye this?

I wouldn't side-eye this, because you hosted it very well.

If you said "you're invited to a birthday party at my house, bring drinks and food to share! P.S. don't forget the presents!" then it would be awful.

But you were very good to your guests, so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

AroundTheBlock

clairekundinger said:

I just think these are guidelines. Common sense should always be used!! Obviously requesting gifts and throwing a party for yourself in such a fashion would be side eyed. I do think that a properly hosted party is a properly hosted party and the etiquette guidelines will tell you that it's rude to throw, but no one will side eye a properly hosted party or gracious hosting. And if they do side eye a gracious and properly hosted event because it's a self hosted birthday or engagement party, they are not your real friends.

You are absolutely right about using your sense and judgement. Real etiquette guidelines will NOT tell you it is rude to throw a properly hosted party! Real etiquette is all about encouraging hospitality and generosity. You need to use tact, (given that gift expectations have become common and that at least one etiquette institute supports those expectations,) to offer your invitation in such a way that your guests do not feel obligated. And you need to remember that the role of host is different from the role of guest-of-honour (and you can only be one or the other, not both.) But etiquette is all about tact and subtlety. If you can carry it off, kudos to you. 

jenniferurs

LOL at the notion that a housewarming party is intended to honor the house itself. It's about the homeowners and their new possession. Not the doors and walls themselves.

I'm all for treating people well and what not, but I think sometimes some people get too caught up in antiquated rules and then justify them in silly ways. I'm not hosting an engagement party or birthday party for myself, but if there's nothing wrong with a housewarming party, I see nothing wrong with those things either. And semantics is exactly what you'd utilize in order to differentiate between the two.

Last year, I rented a boat for my birthday and invited some friends to come out on it with me. Do you think they cared that it wasn't someone else picking up the tab, but me myself? No. They were just happy they had an excuse to party on a boat for free. There's no victim in that situation. And the mere fact that we toss some etiquette rules aside (labels, response cards, paying for accommodations, etc.) should demonstrate that etiquette is not absolute and changes with both times and social circles. Do what you think your friends and family would be comfortable with and you should be fine in the end. If you know your friends and family aren't so laid back and would be offended, skip it. Otherwise, proceed. Only you know the people in your life and how they'll be affected.