• Images
  • Text
  • Find a Couple + Registry
GO
Wedding Party

Expressing Doubts? (Long!!!)

My best friend and I have been friends 'since the sandbox' and are now going to be MOHs in each other's weddings. You all know the girl who dreamed of her PPD since she was little, dressed up in her mom's old dress, etc-that was my friend. So I'm very proud she asked me to stand with her on the real special day and I'd never want to stand in the way of her being happy, but I have doubts about her fiancé and his affect on her actions and emotions.

To be fair, since she and I live a few hours apart,  I haven't been able to get to know him as well as I'd like in the last year and a half they've been together and so I could be judging him too soon/too harshly etc.  (one of the reason I'm posting on here).  Still, my doubts began one of the first nights I did spend time with him.  At that point, she'd already been dating him for about four months and living together (they started dating almost immediately and her moved in with her and her two year old son after about three months).  My friend and I had been talking about having a 'girls night' since I was in the area and meeting at a local bar with a dance area.  Well, she arrived with him and asked me where my fiancé was.  I said I thought it was 'girls night' and she said, 'oh, we don't do those kinds of things anymore, we just prefer to always be together.'  OK...

Fast forward a few hours, she and I are on the dance floor for a moment while her fiancé and some of our other friends hang out at the bar.  When we got back, he said he'd seen us talking to other guys on the dance floor, who was she talking to and why, why was she disrespecting him, why was she flirting so much, what's going on?  I was baffled as to why he wouldn't just have said 'ok' and moved on when both she and I said, it was just a moment of friendly conversation.  But he did not move on.  Instead, he went and sat by himself across the bar and glared and pouted for almost the rest of the evening and my friend spent most of the evening asking other friends to go talk to him, explaining her side, trying to talk to him, etc.

About three months later, she called to say they were looking at rings.  I said that things must really be going well then since they'd only been together 7/8 months, but I was happy for her and told myself that her fiancés actions one night at a bar weren't enough to dislike him.  She then said that it actually wasn't going so well, but they were trying to pull through.  Not going well but looking into getting engaged?  I was confused.  She said it hadn't been going well because she'd found out he'd been cheating on her (the entire time they'd been together!!) with a girl they both knew, and he broke it off when she found out about the cheating.  She also said they had a huge fight about it, but then she decided she loved him and wanted to work through it (we're talking forgave him the next day).  On his end, he just said it was a mistake, she had been not paying enough attention to him (she does have a two-year old, a full-time job, and a sick mother too), it wouldn't happen again and she needed to stop 'bugging him.'  She was not able to stop 'bugging him' and was getting on his nerves by constantly asking about who he was texting, where he was going, etc.  I asked again how this led to rings.  Apparently, he said he wanted to show her that he was sorry and there was no one else for him and she was the one for always.  About two or three months later, they got engaged. 

On the night of their engagement party, we'd all gone out to another bar/club and she got in a fight with him when one of his friends said for her to go home because her fiancé was with his other friends and talking to some ladies.  Why was he talking to those girls?  Were they flirting-what was going on.  It was an uncomfortable dejavu role reversal.  As with before, they both got over it, but not until almost the end of the evening.  I actually felt a bit bad for him (he wasn't doing anything wrong), until a few weeks later when they'd all been out again and apparently he'd said some inappropriate things and inappropriately tried to touch two of her friends.  The friends were totally disgusted, and told her they didn't want to hang out with him anymore if he was going to act like that.  He said he'd been too wasted and didn't remember that or hardly anything else from the night.  She in turn said she forgave him, how could she be mad when he couldn't remember, and said she now questions her friendship with those two and has told them they might not be able to be bridesmaids anymore if they don't try to work it out with her fiancé because 'she doesn't want drama.'

Most recently, they argued via text and phone calls when we went wedding dress shopping for her (because she was taking too long to answer his texts), and argued again when he was out of town and she and I went to another girlfriends house to have a girls movie night.  This time, when she didn't return his calls/texts within about ten minutes, he accused her of talking to someone else, not really caring about or missing him, not paying enough attention to him, etc. Like every other time, they spent hours arguing, but eventually made up. 

Maybe I need to give him more of a chance, but every time they argue, she gets so upset and it hurts me too.  She is constantly worried about things she can and can't do (ex. asking if she can bring her fiancé to my all-girl bachelorette since they don't like to go to bars/clubs without each other, accidentally slipping and telling me that some of the girls want a stripper at my bachelorette, but she told them no since he isn't comfortable with it and she's the one in charge of the planning) and every time he goes out, she wants to be there too-even if she doesn't feel like going out, and even one time when he son was sick and she wanted to stay in with him, but got a sitter so she could go out with her fiancé to 'make sure none of his friends were being bad influences on him.'  She's got a child and she has had a lot of heartache with guys in her past, so I really want for her to be happy, get married, have a great wedding, and all that-but I am worried a life for her with this guy may be a lot more of this crap for years to come.  As her best friend, I feel like I should try again to broach this subject with her (last time she just said I needed to get to know him better), but I am worried that if I go too hard on him, she will not only kick me out as her MOH, but maybe question her friendship with me as she has done with the other girls who expressed their feelings on her fiancé.  I know they'll set a date soon and my time will be limited if I don't 'speak now or forever hold my peace...'

Re: Expressing Doubts? (Long!!!)

  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    Their relationship sounds like a trainwreck in the making, but I think that if you want her to stay your friend, your only course of action is to go ahead and be her MOH and withhold your judgments of her FI and their relationship, and then after the wedding, if it sounds like they might get divorced, just to "be there" for her.  She is not going to listen to you and stay your friend, and her dropping her other friends who expressed similar feelings about her FI is an indicator of that.
    KeptInStitches[Deleted User]
  • doeydodoeydo Southwestern Ontario member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    I agree with prettybirdy27, the relationship sounds abusive.  But I think that all you can do is be there for your friend because if you try to tell her the guy is not right for her, she will just get upset and shut you out of your life, which makes her more "dependent" on her one relationship.
    image
  • Honestly, I think approaching her with your concerns would be a bad idea. At this point she seems dead set on marrying this man, despite their problems. If you tell her you don't think she should be with him or marry him it very well might back fire. I don't think one this conversation with her is going to make her see the light, it will probably make her very defensive. She might kick you out of the wedding (I certainly would if one of my friends didn't agree with my marriage) or end the friendship altogether. If she says she's happy with him, I think you have to take her word for it.
    image
  • OliveOilsMomOliveOilsMom South Jersey member
    Eighth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers

    My best friend and I have been friends 'since the sandbox' and are now going to be MOHs in each other's weddings. You all know the girl who dreamed of her PPD since she was little, dressed up in her mom's old dress, etc-that was my friend. So I'm very proud she asked me to stand with her on the real special day and I'd never want to stand in the way of her being happy, but I have doubts about her fiancé and his affect on her actions and emotions.

    To be fair, since she and I live a few hours apart,  I haven't been able to get to know him as well as I'd like in the last year and a half they've been together and so I could be judging him too soon/too harshly etc.  (one of the reason I'm posting on here).  Still, my doubts began one of the first nights I did spend time with him.  At that point, she'd already been dating him for about four months and living together (they started dating almost immediately and her moved in with her and her two year old son after about three months).  My friend and I had been talking about having a 'girls night' since I was in the area and meeting at a local bar with a dance area.  Well, she arrived with him and asked me where my fiancé was.  I said I thought it was 'girls night' and she said, 'oh, we don't do those kinds of things anymore, we just prefer to always be together.'  OK...

    Fast forward a few hours, she and I are on the dance floor for a moment while her fiancé and some of our other friends hang out at the bar.  When we got back, he said he'd seen us talking to other guys on the dance floor, who was she talking to and why, why was she disrespecting him, why was she flirting so much, what's going on?  I was baffled as to why he wouldn't just have said 'ok' and moved on when both she and I said, it was just a moment of friendly conversation.  But he did not move on.  Instead, he went and sat by himself across the bar and glared and pouted for almost the rest of the evening and my friend spent most of the evening asking other friends to go talk to him, explaining her side, trying to talk to him, etc.

    About three months later, she called to say they were looking at rings.  I said that things must really be going well then since they'd only been together 7/8 months, but I was happy for her and told myself that her fiancés actions one night at a bar weren't enough to dislike him.  She then said that it actually wasn't going so well, but they were trying to pull through.  Not going well but looking into getting engaged?  I was confused.  She said it hadn't been going well because she'd found out he'd been cheating on her (the entire time they'd been together!!) with a girl they both knew, and he broke it off when she found out about the cheating.  She also said they had a huge fight about it, but then she decided she loved him and wanted to work through it (we're talking forgave him the next day).  On his end, he just said it was a mistake, she had been not paying enough attention to him (she does have a two-year old, a full-time job, and a sick mother too), it wouldn't happen again and she needed to stop 'bugging him.'  She was not able to stop 'bugging him' and was getting on his nerves by constantly asking about who he was texting, where he was going, etc.  I asked again how this led to rings.  Apparently, he said he wanted to show her that he was sorry and there was no one else for him and she was the one for always.  About two or three months later, they got engaged. 

    On the night of their engagement party, we'd all gone out to another bar/club and she got in a fight with him when one of his friends said for her to go home because her fiancé was with his other friends and talking to some ladies.  Why was he talking to those girls?  Were they flirting-what was going on.  It was an uncomfortable dejavu role reversal.  As with before, they both got over it, but not until almost the end of the evening.  I actually felt a bit bad for him (he wasn't doing anything wrong), until a few weeks later when they'd all been out again and apparently he'd said some inappropriate things and inappropriately tried to touch two of her friends.  The friends were totally disgusted, and told her they didn't want to hang out with him anymore if he was going to act like that.  He said he'd been too wasted and didn't remember that or hardly anything else from the night.  She in turn said she forgave him, how could she be mad when he couldn't remember, and said she now questions her friendship with those two and has told them they might not be able to be bridesmaids anymore if they don't try to work it out with her fiancé because 'she doesn't want drama.'

    Most recently, they argued via text and phone calls when we went wedding dress shopping for her (because she was taking too long to answer his texts), and argued again when he was out of town and she and I went to another girlfriends house to have a girls movie night.  This time, when she didn't return his calls/texts within about ten minutes, he accused her of talking to someone else, not really caring about or missing him, not paying enough attention to him, etc. Like every other time, they spent hours arguing, but eventually made up. 

    Maybe I need to give him more of a chance, but every time they argue, she gets so upset and it hurts me too.  She is constantly worried about things she can and can't do (ex. asking if she can bring her fiancé to my all-girl bachelorette since they don't like to go to bars/clubs without each other, accidentally slipping and telling me that some of the girls want a stripper at my bachelorette, but she told them no since he isn't comfortable with it and she's the one in charge of the planning) and every time he goes out, she wants to be there too-even if she doesn't feel like going out, and even one time when he son was sick and she wanted to stay in with him, but got a sitter so she could go out with her fiancé to 'make sure none of his friends were being bad influences on him.'  She's got a child and she has had a lot of heartache with guys in her past, so I really want for her to be happy, get married, have a great wedding, and all that-but I am worried a life for her with this guy may be a lot more of this crap for years to come.  As her best friend, I feel like I should try again to broach this subject with her (last time she just said I needed to get to know him better), but I am worried that if I go too hard on him, she will not only kick me out as her MOH, but maybe question her friendship with me as she has done with the other girls who expressed their feelings on her fiancé.  I know they'll set a date soon and my time will be limited if I don't 'speak now or forever hold my peace...'

    I would probably try to have one more conversation with her.  Ask her open ended questions, like "Do you trust your FI?" and "Are you happy?"  Depending on her answers to those questions.  I would attempt to point out that trust is very important aspect to have in a marriage.  And just from the girls movie night and the first night you met him, you both don't seem to trust each other.  See what she says then - if she acknowledges the trust issues tell her that pre-marital counseling could be a great way to work on trust.  If she says that she is happy, tell her that you love her and are happy that she is happy.  If you can keep the end of the conversation positive, I don't think she would consider kicking you out of WP.

    Whatever you do, this relationship won't last like this.  You need to be able to be around to help your friend out of it.  It is very rare for any relationship that starts with moving in together so soon to last (not to say it doesn't).

    lc07jenniferursmimiphin
  • I've never seen him around her son, and she tells me they get along,son calls him dada. I don't think he's ever watched the child without my friend or gone anywhere just the two of them, and he never lets his plans be hindered by the child-after working all week, it's not uncommon for them to leave her son at her parents all weekend or at a babysitters.

    Regarding another mans presence in her life, the sons father is in jail for another 5-10 years (he's not a bad guy, just got caught up in some bad stuff mainly fueled by drug dependence). She and he had dated for about 5 years before the drugs and bad stuff and jail. So, her fiancé has told her her doesn't want her visiting the dad in jail-ever, but every now and then the son goes with his fathers parents. Her fiancé also hates when she shows too much emotion with the fathers parents and always tells her how weird he finds it that she still maintains a relationship with 'these people.'

    I worry for her child too...
  • I've never seen him around her son, and she tells me they get along,son calls him dada. I don't think he's ever watched the child without my friend or gone anywhere just the two of them, and he never lets his plans be hindered by the child-after working all week, it's not uncommon for them to leave her son at her parents all weekend or at a babysitters. Regarding another mans presence in her life, the sons father is in jail for another 5-10 years (he's not a bad guy, just got caught up in some bad stuff mainly fueled by drug dependence). She and he had dated for about 5 years before the drugs and bad stuff and jail. So, her fiancé has told her her doesn't want her visiting the dad in jail-ever, but every now and then the son goes with his fathers parents. Her fiancé also hates when she shows too much emotion with the fathers parents and always tells her how weird he finds it that she still maintains a relationship with 'these people.' I worry for her child too...
    I don't think you can really blame this on the man. It is her child and she's making the conscious decision to leave her child with her parents.
    image
  • I'm really sorry that you're watching your friend spiral into this toxic relationship. I'm also divided on whether or not you should talk to her. Without knowing either of you personally, I can't say what I think the outcome would be (isolation vs. effective). 

    If you do decide to talk to her, you'll need to be SUPER careful not to come across as judgmental. I think the slightest hint of judgement will put her on the defensive and if he gets wind of it, he'll use it as an excuse to isolate her from you. I would open the conversation how OliveOilsMom suggested and go from there. Maybe let her know you've noticed she seems sad, stressed, and not herself and is there anything she wants to talk about (don't bring up her guy). Once she gets talking, just let her do the talking - not you. You can prompt her with non-judgmental questions (e.g. how does it make you feel? what do you think about that? why do you think you feel that way? why do you think that happens? etc.). 

    My guess is that once she gets going, what comes out of HER mouth is going to have a bigger effect that listening to anyone else. Don't expect an epiphany. Someone in a relationship that muddled with jealousy, distrust, and dependence will take a long time to see the light.
    *********************************************************************************

    image
  • I'm not blaming her child being left at the parents on him and didn't mean for it to come off that way, it is her child. However, I am concerned about her fiances affect on her actions and emotions and think that her desire to not have him go out without her and to be with him as much as possible contribute to her leaving her child with the parents or sitter as I know when she was single she spent much more time with the child.
  • TBH I'm having a similar issue with a friend right now who keeps saying that she knows god put them together for a reason and that he's the only person who's made her believe in soul mates. but he's sereiously not good for her and she just says that it's harder to forgive him and stay than to leave him so she keeps choosing the harder route. By now I've kinda given up trying to understand. I really think she's more scared of letting him go than she is of him repeatedly cheating on her. He's cheated on her with escorts and friends. Most recently he found out that he had a kid with a woman 16 years his senior and only accepted the child after a paternity test. On top of that the child was conceived a WEEK before they got together and claims that until the paternity test he had no idea that he even had a kid. This kid is now 8 months old! And he wants her to accept the child as if he's her own?! I don't think you should be the MOH if you're not fully supportive of the relationship, but if you're willing to put up her jerk of a husband attend the wedding in support of HER. 
    Visit The Knot!Visit The Knot!Visit The Knot! Visit The Knot!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • pinkcow13pinkcow13 The Concrete Jungle member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    This is really tough. I went through something similar with my best friend. She was dating a way younger guy who was heavily into drugs, and she does not use drugs at all.Except for her current bf she has made some crappy relationship decisions but this one was the worst [one time at a party, his friend purposely laced her drink with a molly or something]. I tried to make her reason many times and she would not listen. One time, after having a bit too much to drink at happy hour, she really made me angry because she broke her plans with me to hang out with him, and I drunkenly said all this stuff about him, and about her. Not so much about her per se but about her decisions. I noticed after that incident she started pushing me away, and barely spoke to me for months. Luckily she had a rude wake up call [ he called her and her friends losers, and a bunch of "old bitches who have nothing better to do but hang out with younger dudes"], and realized her mistake. But the point is, no matter what, when females are in toxic relationships unfortunately what others say never matters. It is like being on a drug. So really all you can do is be there for her when this relationship falls apart. OliveoilsMom above also gave great advice if you did want to attempt one last talk with her. It's really hard watching it happen, unfortunately there is not much that can be done if the person does not want to hear it.
                                 Anniversary
    imageimageimage


     

  • smalfrie19smalfrie19 Home of SB XLVIII Champs member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper
    I think you should reach out to her. I was in a relationship that was EXACTLY like your friend's and it took a LOT for me to get out of it. I would voice your concerns and ask open ended questions that she can think about, because that is mainly what helped me. It hurts my heart to hear of other people going through this.
    Anniversary
    image
  • Thank you all for your advice! I really thought my efforts to really listen, ask open ended questions, and keep her talking were working.
    For example, when she came over a few weekends ago, we were just having a nice night in with some wine and movies. He got pissed because she hadn't been able to immediately answer his texts, but he could see we had gone on Facebook. This got her talking to me and finally asking me about different things in their relationship saying 'do you think this is a red flag?' I said if she was asking me, then does she think it's a red flag? She said yes. However, they still made up later.
    We had a similar conversation when she told me how they were having money issues and he had to take back her engagement ring before the credit got hit. She said they'd also push back wedding till spring of 2015 because (her words) they had a lot to fix if they are going to get married. While I was sad to hear about her money troubles (she lost her job too which especially breaks my heart because of her child), I was glad to hear about the pushed back wedding. Yet, she told me she wants to go dress shopping in next few weeks. The wedding is now almost 17 months away and it seems that if she's complaining that she can't afford anything, (maybe I'm being insensitive?) couldn't this be put off till she and her child are financially stable? I really feel like I'm trying, but no idea if it's making any difference.
  • OliveOilsMomOliveOilsMom South Jersey member
    Eighth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I would continue having these small conversations with her.  It is good that they pushed the wedding back. Hopefully in that time, they will break up as they are obviously not good for each other.  As for the wedding dress, I don't know that there is much you can do.  If they can't afford the engagement ring, how would they be able a wedding dress?  We usually tell brides that shopping for anything that far out is a bad idea because she could get pregnant and lose/gain weight, but that's not necessarily something you can tell a friend to her face! 
  • Sounds like you know her better than he does. She's your best friend, you grew up together. If that were my best friend or even my sister, we would have to have a heart to heart because I would not want her to be in such a toxic relationship let alone have to go through with a marriage built on mistrust and no honesty. She has a kid too? I wouldn't want the kid to have to get used to something like that either. You'll have to have a come to jesus talk with her. You love her, you're her best friend. Let her know she deserves better. But she's also an adult, so if she chooses to marry this man and spend her days with him, she will have to learn that lesson on her own. I'll be keeping positive thoughts for the both of you :)

     Just can't wait til July 11th, 2015!

    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    Daisypath Anniversary tickers
  • I just wanted to echo PPs and advise that you have an open conversation by asking questions like "Are you truly happy? Do you like you guys argue like this?" and go from there.  When the relationship falls apart, just be there for her.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image
  • Unless you want to lose your friend, don't say anything. She's made up her mind that this/he is what she wants and whether you agree or not you need to be there to support her. If you make the decision to be her friend then it's for good times or bad.

    I was in a very similar situation with my best friend. Her fiance was a total work of art piece of crap - I was the only person in her bridal party at their wedding in 2007, if that shows how close we were/are. I knew 150% for sure that she was making a huge mistake marrying that man and trust me I wanted to shout it from the rooftops but it was not my place. 

    Fast forward 7 years, they are now divorced with 4 year old twins. I was her ear to voice to and shoulder to cry on many MANY times throughout the years of his abuse and her misery - and never once did I say a word about the mistake of marrying him, she was suffering enough.

    Committing to being this woman's friend has a lot of burden on it - as my commitment to my friend did. So you need to realize that before "going the distance". Women like this are fighting intense fights daily within themselves mentally and emotionally, losing a good friend is not what she needs now or ever.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    As the PPs suggest, this sounds like an abusive relationship all the way around, but I don't see what good telling her directly that she's making a mistake would do.  I think that making any suggestion of the sort will result in her ending your friendship.

    The best you can do is provide her with a pair of ears and a shoulder to cry on when she needs it while the relationship is going on, and to be helpful to her should it ever end without saying "I told you so."

    It can be very painful to see people you are close to end up in bad relationships and make you feel helpless when they are clearly sinking but don't want to be saved or are in denial about how bad things really are, but unfortunately, your friend is an adult, and sometimes all you can do with an adult is wait for them to wake up and smell the Java.
  • If the fiancé shuts you out from your friend, you may want to talk to someone in her life that can help keep their eyes and ears open for the safety and support of your friend and her child. Does your friend have a mother, sister, or aunt you could reach out to if you are cut off? That person may not be able to help your friend see reason either, but someone in her life outside that household needs to be aware something is up. Additionally, I would recommend keeping your distance from him at social functions. He may try to act like a creep to you, with the twisted end result being your friend distancing herself from you. She might be in too deep to realize she is being manipulated, and for the sake of your friendship, don't give this guy an opportunity to play his game with you. Also, is your friend in individual therapy? If not, try to help her make this happen. If she needs an excuse, say something about helping her through recent changes like the loss of her job. If she goes, it is likely she will talk about her fiancé. Most therapists use a sliding scale that is based on income, so don't let her use lack of funds as an excuse.
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards