Wedding Etiquette Forum

Double standards for wedding party etiquette...

2

Re: Double standards for wedding party etiquette...

  • classyduckclassyduck member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    edited March 2014
    I agree with you that you do seem to be generalizing a lot of brides on here. At least, that's how it comes across in your OP.
    The same brides that do treat that bridal parties poorly are probably the same ones who encourage poor treatment of their guests.
    The brides on here that advocate fair treatment of guests would not advocate poor treatment of the bridal party.

    As members of the bridal party, we go into it knowing that we're part of the bridal party during the ceremony and not guests during the ceremony. I mean, you can call them honored guests or what ever, because it doesn't matter which they're called. Our roles during the ceremony are different. This can sometimes mean the attire is different.
    This sort of rationale disappoints me. Just because you are part of the bridal party does not mean you stop being guests. The fact that you are ceremony participants should, if anything, elevate the consideration you are shown, not diminish it.
    There is no bridal party etiquette that you (as a member of the bridal party) has to wear what ever the bride says and that's the end of the discussion. The whole matchy matchy crap is just a tradition that can either be done or not.

    If it's a important to you to have someone in your bridal party but she (or he!) refuses to wear anything you pick out, then you get to decide whether or not it's a battle you want to fight.
    ...snip... sorry for the edit...snip...
    The brides I was friends with never dictated what I had to wear. They offered, suggested, and we spent plenty of times going through tons of dresses, but in the end, it was always a very fair compromise. Now, if the bride had offered to pay for my dress, then that would have been another story. But that doesn't mean they would get to dictate what the guests wore, too, unless they were also paying for the guests' outfits.
    I hope your experience is typical for most people. It was not for me. I'd like to think I have a more confident character these days, that could be more assertive--yet polite, in such situations. But, it's been a while since I've been in a wedding party, and back then, I was still pretty meek.

    Regardless, the instinct this board has cultivated in me is that there should be no extra "time" or budgetary "compromise" (aka strings) attached to extending an honor. My personal interpretation of that includes that there should be no dress code negotiation with the WP that would not normally be extended to other guests. But that is just my, apparently dissimilar*, opinion.

    *exceptions noted, to those of you who have bothered to note here, or in opinions expressed elsewhere on the boards.
  • classyduckclassyduck member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    edited March 2014
    Viczaesar said:
    Personally I don't think that brides should dictate their bridesmaids' attire at all, but that's a minority opinion.
    Gosh I wish it weren't-- you get the main point of my view completely! Why is this a minority opinion? You imply my point -- that the opposite opinion, that it is ok to dictate bridesmaids' (or WP) attire, is the majority opinion (presumably even on these boards?). This board is so progressive when it comes to etiquette, I wonder why this seems to fly under the radar.
  • Viczaesar said:
    Personally I don't think that brides should dictate their bridesmaids' attire at all, but that's a minority opinion.
    Gosh I wish it weren't-- you get the main point of my view completely! Why is this a minority opinion? You imply my point -- that the opposite opinion, that it is ok to dictate bridesmaids' (or WP) attire, is the majority opinion (presumably even on these boards?). This board is so progressive when it comes to etiquette, I wonder why this seems to fly under the radar.
    It's because, unfortunately, some traditions take a really damn long time to shift. The bridesmaids used to have the purpose of confusing evil spirits who were out to get the bride, thus they were dressed to match her. Over time that evolved into just matching each other. And menswear is just plain less varied than it used to be. Hell, tights and high heels used to be for men, not women, though I grant you women took to high heels pretty quickly.
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  • phira said:
    Again, I think that the OP is questioning why we get any say in the wedding party members' attire. If we can't tell the rest of our guests, "Wear [color]," why do we get to tell our bridesmaids to wear a particular color?

    And again, I think that dictating (to whatever extent) wedding party attire isn't going to go away any time soon, much like brides in white/off-white. But the point is--why do we care what the wedding party wears? What makes it okay to ask for people to wear a particular color or a particular dress if it's rude to do the same for other guests?

    And while I definitely appreciate that we're moving away from, "IT'S MY DAY YOU HAVE TO MATCH," I don't really find a lot of comfort in hearing, "We only gave some guidelines," or, "We let them wear whatever black dress they wanted." Again, we shouldn't do this for the rest of our guests. Heck, I think most of us wouldn't even ask this of our parents these days.

    Is it because people in the wedding party expect to be asked to wear certain clothes?

    I'm not accusing anyone here of being cruel to their wedding party. But I'm really curious about how we justify giving the wedding party any sort of guidelines or rules about attire, when we (understandably) do not do the same with the rest of our guests.
    I completely agree. Doesn't the bridesmaid/groomsmen clone thing encourage the "people as props" attitude that we try to discourage? I don't consider myself a particularly "untraditional" bride, but I could not care less what our wedding party wears. 

    Don't get me wrong, if I am in a wedding, I expect to buy and wear a dress of the bride's choosing. I understand that it's a traditional expectation of the bridal party, and I am ok with that.

    With that said, the bride has always purchased my bridesmaid dress. And I think that's a good compromise. If you require your attendants to wear a specific article of clothing, you can at least pay for it.

    Personally, I feel the same way about bridesmaid dresses as I do about guests wearing white to a wedding. It is a traditional rule that I'll abide by, but I think it's silly. I don't care what any of my guests wear to my wedding, as long as everyone is comfortable and happy.
  • So, I've been lurking for a few months, and these boards have been SO helpful. I've learned a lot, but still have more to learn... But. Something really nags me: There seems to be a double standard when it comes to hosting-etiquette for the wedding party.

    Examples:
    1) Putting a dress code on invitations is rude, yet we find it perfectly acceptable to dictate what our wedding party wears. They are often the only ones -- aside from the groom-- in tuxedos, for example. Most of the time, they are expected to pay for it.
    2) Gaps are rude for our guests, but the wedding party is often expected to stand around waiting for various preparatory things all day long
    3) Not considering our guest's comfort with respect to environment (making them walk through mud, etc. to a ceremony site) or having enough seating and making them stand is a no-no, but wedding parties often have to stand around and pose for photos. I remember one time as BM I was made to stand outside while pictures were taken for 45 minutes in 35 degree weather with nothing but SPAGHETTI STRAPS on. We all were like that -- logistically, we were not given the opportunity to retrieve our coats first. This is an extreme example, but I do feel like wedding parties are "put out" a lot.
    4) We don't approve of imposing "help" on our guests, but wedding party members are asked to usher, hand out programs, whatever, with impunity.

    I'm sure you can think of more examples. This bothers me, because many knotties here are usually VERY perceptive of etiquette being applied equally and fairly, but I rarely hear any criticism of these practices for wedding parties. Some people may say that this is acceptable because those in the wedding party had the opportunity to decline. Yet, being in a wedding party is a position of honor. It should come without strings attached. Most people on the boards agree we shouldn't impose on our wedding party members not to get pregnant, get a tatoo, whatever, because it's their body their life. The bride and groom are honoring the wedding party by asking them to stand with them, not asking the wedding party to slave away for them.

    So why the double standard with their comfort as guests? Are we not hosting them as well? This is a huge reason I have elected not to have a wedding party at all--I don't want to impose on the people closest to me. My FH is having a few people stand with him, but I would like us to pay for their attire, since we are suggesting that they wear tuxes/formalwear. To me this is the ONLY polite way to go about imposing a dress code on the wedding party. And even with that, I've told them they don't have to wear what we suggest, I'm just offering it, and I want them to be comfortable.

    The funny thing is, I never once questioned these practices until I came to these boards and got schooled on etiquette! It just seems like an inconsistency to the otherwise fabulous advice given here.

    I'm open to the possibility of a justifiable reason for the seeming double-standard, but I haven't heard it yet... was curious what your thoughts were.

    Edited for clarity.

    I actually agree with you, I am very uncomfortable asking our WP to buy specific clothes, for example. In fact, I am going out of my way to avoid this. I refuse to ask them to help with anything, expect no pre-wedding parties from them, and really just want them to be with me when I get married because I love them and their support is important to me.

    I didn't want to have a ring bearer or flower girl either, but FSIL legitimately really wanted her kids to be in the wedding and FI was into it, so I gave in on that. I just hate hate hate the idea of using people I love as props. And I know that plenty of people choose a dress or whatever and don't think of their friends like that, so this is no way meant to offend anyone.


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  • I don't really see my bridesmaids as props though. I want them standing beside me in that moment because they helped me make a 180 when it came to personal things over the last couple of years. I wouldn't have been able to open myself up to love if it weren't for them. It's not just having them in a pretty dress standing in pictures. And especially now because my FI and I had to go long-distance thanks to him being in the military, they are my support network right now. They are making these months fly by and knocking on my door with hugs and ice cream when I miss my FI. These are like my sisters, and I can't imagine them not sharing every moment of that big day with me, and they are excited to be a part of it. No one is anyone's prop.
  • @classyduck, you've made it clear that your logic is quite different from that of the other ladies here (which is generally what's widely accepted and etiquette-approved) and that you're not going to change your mind. So instead of bitching about it on TK or picking an argument with internet strangers, just don't be a bridesmaid ever again. Problem solved. See how easy that was?

    That was pretty unnecessarily nasty.

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  • missnc77 said:
    I don't really see my bridesmaids as props though. I want them standing beside me in that moment because they helped me make a 180 when it came to personal things over the last couple of years. I wouldn't have been able to open myself up to love if it weren't for them. It's not just having them in a pretty dress standing in pictures. And especially now because my FI and I had to go long-distance thanks to him being in the military, they are my support network right now. They are making these months fly by and knocking on my door with hugs and ice cream when I miss my FI. These are like my sisters, and I can't imagine them not sharing every moment of that big day with me, and they are excited to be a part of it. No one is anyone's prop.

    Nothing I said was directed at you, but I do have a question - did you choose a matching dress for them to wear? If so, why? I've been a bridesprop (still very close with the bride, but she was bananas around her wedding) and it was very uncomfortable. And it felt really bizarre to walk around all day in a dress that matched 8 other women. I don't understand the allure unless it's for pretty matching pictures.

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  • I'll say it does bother me a bit to tell people what to wear and then expect them to pay for it. I always thought that was weird. When I first started wedding planning I assumed that the bride paid for BM dresses and was surprised to find that wasn't the case. If we had more room in our budget I totally still would, along with all other expenses. I am paying for one BM's plane ticket since I know she doesn't have money to blow right now, and I switched wedding locations from back home to here kind of last minute so she really wasn't prepared for forking over money for a plane ticket.

    Instead though I'm giving them some choice. I picked a color and a fabric and told them to pick whatever they want. I always thought perfectly matched dresses were sort of creepy and it always ends up looking terrible on at least one person. I honestly prefer the look of mismatched dresses. If they're going to be paying for it, I want them to pick out something they like enough to wear again. 

    Also going to keep GM attire pretty cheap, probably forgoing jackets which will be a) cheaper and b) more comfortable on a summer day. 

    As for the rest, keep photo ops to a minimum and make sure your wedding party gets a chance to eat throughout the day and I think that makes for treating your wedding party pretty well. 
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  • Idk, I guess I don't think I am "honoring" them by including them - I think they are honoring me by standing beside me and supporting my choice. *shrug*

    I'm not a Queen of England, I don't think it's an honor to attend me.


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  • Idk, I guess I don't think I am "honoring" them by including them - I think they are honoring me by standing beside me and supporting my choice. *shrug*


    I'm not a Queen of England, I don't think it's an honor to attend me.

    It's not about attending you. It's about everyone else in attendance knowing that these people are so near and dear to the bride and groom, so important to their lives, that they're standing at the front instead of sitting in a chair. It IS an honor. Which is why they're traditionally referred to as "honor attendants." Not because any of us are so special that we need be attended to. There should be no attending. But because we're singling these people out as the most important people in attendance.
  • Idk, I guess I don't think I am "honoring" them by including them - I think they are honoring me by standing beside me and supporting my choice. *shrug*

    I'm not a Queen of England, I don't think it's an honor to attend me.

    It's a two way honor.  Yes, when you are in a WP you are honoring the people getting married.  But when you ask someone to be in your wedding party you are honoring them and highlighting to everyone in attendance at the wedding that these are your nearest and dearest.  Another phrase we often use to describe the WP are your VIPs.

    If you treat your WP like servants, then no, you're right, it's not an honor.
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • My bridesmaids actually all chose to wear the same dress without my input. I asked them to select a dress that was not floor length and was blue. I sent some examples to show them what color I meant and they all emailed me individually to rave about a certain dress, so that's the dress they are all getting.
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  • missnc77missnc77 member
    First Comment 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited March 2014


    missnc77 said:

    I don't really see my bridesmaids as props though. I want them standing beside me in that moment because they helped me make a 180 when it came to personal things over the last couple of years. I wouldn't have been able to open myself up to love if it weren't for them. It's not just having them in a pretty dress standing in pictures. And especially now because my FI and I had to go long-distance thanks to him being in the military, they are my support network right now. They are making these months fly by and knocking on my door with hugs and ice cream when I miss my FI. These are like my sisters, and I can't imagine them not sharing every moment of that big day with me, and they are excited to be a part of it. No one is anyone's prop.


    Nothing I said was directed at you, but I do have a question - did you choose a matching dress for them to wear? If so, why? I've been a bridesprop (still very close with the bride, but she was bananas around her wedding) and it was very uncomfortable. And it felt really bizarre to walk around all day in a dress that matched 8 other women. I don't understand the allure unless it's for pretty matching pictures.
    I did pick the color. But we went to the bridal salon where they tried on dresses they picked out. Some preferred a halter, one wanted strapless, so that's what they ended up getting. So, color, yes. The dresses? No. I also told them while they were trying on dresses if they preferred a color more than the one I picked, we can change it. They were fine with the color, it was more the dress style they wanted to pick out. Fine with me!
  • missax said:
    Idk, I guess I don't think I am "honoring" them by including them - I think they are honoring me by standing beside me and supporting my choice. *shrug*

    I'm not a Queen of England, I don't think it's an honor to attend me.

    I see it as both ways. I think you are honoring the friendship.

    That's fair, I can buy that. :)

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  • Ps I am posting by phone if the quote didn't work.
  • As usual, @Maggie0829 nailed it. If my BM's choose to wear the same dress, then that's totally fine. If they choose completely different ones, that's fine too. I just want them to be happy, feel comfortable and beautiful and enjoy themselves.

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  • Maybe I'm nuts, as a BM, I really don't mind dressing to fit the brides "vision"/ color scheme- as long as it's not out of control.  (Within my budget, no specific jewelry/ shoe, they're not being a twit the entire time, etc.)
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  • Hm, this has been an interesting discussion. I agree with OP that there really is no difference between asking your WP to wear something in particular and asking your guests to. It's very accepted, so it probably won't be seen as rude by most if you aren't a jerk about it, but that doesn't mean it's not imposing a burden.

    I think calling it an honor is a bit much. Some people will feel honored; others will feel obligated or just indifferent. When I was a bridesmaid, I did feel honored, but also pretty dang burdened. Being a prop for a whole day is exhausting.

    Take-home message: just try to burden your wedding party, if you have one, as little as possible, even if your actions would be considered totally within the norm. Do they NEED to have the same color shoes and get their hair done with you? Do you NEED to take an hour of pictures at that awesome park? Etc.

    No wedding party for me, BTW. It's so relaxing.
  • phiraphira member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    @selenathegreat The point is that your wedding party members are your honored guests, but that's been getting lost recently, especially with women in the wedding party. What used to be, "Will you be one of our witnesses?" has turned into, "Will you buy and wear a dress of my choosing, will you help me make all the decorations the night before, will you attend all tastings and fittings, will you help address invitations, will you plan and host the shower and bachelorette party I want?" etc etc etc.

    TK forums have done a lot to push expectations back to being an honor, not an obligation or a job.
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  • @phira I guess "honored guest" sounds so different to me than "this is such an honor for you!" The first is just gratitude and the latter is do presumptuous. Maybe just in my head.
  • phira said:
    @selenathegreat The point is that your wedding party members are your honored guests, but that's been getting lost recently, especially with women in the wedding party. What used to be, "Will you be one of our witnesses?" has turned into, "Will you buy and wear a dress of my choosing, will you help me make all the decorations the night before, will you attend all tastings and fittings, will you help address invitations, will you plan and host the shower and bachelorette party I want?" etc etc etc.

    TK forums have done a lot to push expectations back to being an honor, not an obligation or a job.
    I agree with this.  It SHOULD be an honor to be asked to be in someone's wedding party.  Unfortunately for some brides, the honor is lost and it becomes a job.
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • classyduckclassyduck member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    edited March 2014
    @classyduck, you've made it clear that your logic is quite different from that of the other ladies here (which is generally what's widely accepted and etiquette-approved) and that you're not going to change your mind. So instead of bitching about it on TK or picking an argument with internet strangers, just don't be a bridesmaid ever again. Problem solved. See how easy that was?

    That was pretty unnecessarily nasty.
    Meh, you know, I did feel like I had to qualify myself a few times by stating things like "no offense intended" ... so maybe I should have thought a little more carefully before posting this thread. I'm sorry lalalaurita if I sounded judgy at any point! I will try and keep a more respectful tone.



    missnc77 said:
    I don't really see my bridesmaids as props though. I want them standing beside me in that moment because they helped me make a 180 when it came to personal things over the last couple of years. I wouldn't have been able to open myself up to love if it weren't for them. It's not just having them in a pretty dress standing in pictures. And especially now because my FI and I had to go long-distance thanks to him being in the military, they are my support network right now. They are making these months fly by and knocking on my door with hugs and ice cream when I miss my FI. These are like my sisters, and I can't imagine them not sharing every moment of that big day with me, and they are excited to be a part of it. No one is anyone's prop.
    This. This is awesome, and what I think a wedding party should really be all about! I can't say that I've ever had the opportunity to stand with someone in wedding and it be this meaningful. I'm not sure how often it happens, but I hope it happens more often that it does to me. Really glad you have such an awesome support group, and I think it is beautiful that they were able to stand with and show their love for you and your husband at your wedding.
    phira said:
    @selenathegreat The point is that your wedding party members are your honored guests, but that's been getting lost recently, especially with women in the wedding party. What used to be, "Will you be one of our witnesses?" has turned into, "Will you buy and wear a dress of my choosing, will you help me make all the decorations the night before, will you attend all tastings and fittings, will you help address invitations, will you plan and host the shower and bachelorette party I want?" etc etc etc.

    TK forums have done a lot to push expectations back to being an honor, not an obligation or a job.
    I'm so grateful I came here. Truthfully, I never questioned the role of the BM before coming here, and you are totally right. The posters here really do get it, and I've come a long way in my views on this -- and a lot of other things.
  • I think this is one of the most interesting discussions I've read here in a long time.  Weddings in many ways have gotten out of control and you have touched on some of those areas.  A wedding should be a personal, intimate celebration of a very serious lifetime commitment but in many cases has become an outragous extravaganza complete with engagement parties, showers, bachelor/ette parties, rehearsal dinners, picnics, brunches, serenades and on and on and generally a lot of entitlement to wedding extravagance that would rival the Queen of England's Diamond Jubilee celebration.

    And, of course, everyone the bride, groom and their families have ever known are expected to joyfully  and financially participate in "this special day."  In reality I have known of friendships that have ended because a bride got a little too caught up in her "special day" and forgot that her friends and relatives had lives of their own and budgets to consider. 

    The mention of the photos reminded me that one photographer I contacted before my wedding sent me pictures of a wedding she had recently done, and the photos were gorgeous.  Because we were a "mature" couple, she sent very age appropriate pictures.  However, this particular wedding had taken place a couple of days after we had been hit by two back to back blizzards.  As I said the pictures were gorgeous and the bridesmaids were in beautiful, sleeveless dresses, but in the immediate background was THREE FEET OF SNOW.  All I could think of was those poor women must have been freezing and what was the photographer thinking.  I did tell my own photographer I wanted no part of anything like that. 

    As for the clothing of the wedding party, brides get away with asking their friends and relatives in the wedding party to wear ugly, overpiced dresses partly because it's tradition and partly because the wedding industry is fueling this silliness.

    To get a little personal, my sister and I had gone through some difficult times following the death of our mother and just reconnected shortly before my wedding.  I was so thrilled she was there for me, when she asked me what I wanted her to wear, all I could tell her was "whatever you will feel pretty wearing" and she could have worn blue jeans and a sweatshirt and I wouldn't have cared as long as she was there beside me.  In fact, we actually bought her dress and my niece's dress, the day before the wedding.   

    And as you suggested the bridal party is totally unnecessary; it's really just honorary.  You need witnesses to sign the license, but anyone in attendance can do that.  In fact, my husband had no attendants so his best friend signed the license as did my sister, who was my matron of honor.  My niece wanted to be in the wedding party, such as it was, so she threw flower petals (We were married in a tented garden, so throwing flower petals was acceptable), but otherwise no official "wedding party."  Any participation from family and friends was totally voluntary and consequently our relationships survived "our special day." 

    Sometimes when I read some of the drama from brides who are "so hurt" because they're not getting a lavish bachelorette party or attendants have said "no" to dresses equal to a month's salary, I really hope they stop and think, "Is this party or dress worth losing the love of a sister or friend?"  And I have read posts where someone needs to remind these entitled brats that after all we are talking about weddings here not coronations and life really will go on without the tiaras, bachelorette parties in Paris and designer dresses. 

    I had a beautiful wedding and I would wish the same for every other woman.  It is a special day, but the specialness comes from sharing the day with those you love.  It's not about dictating what they will wear or chores they will perform for you and certainly not about subjecting them to forced marches or any other form of physical torture and definitely not about asking them to spend large sums of money they can't afford. 

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