Holy #@*%!!! Cant believe what I just read!

strow34

People are nuts. 

APDSS22

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Your world is about to change. Drastically. I dated a minister for a while, and his lifestyle choice was one of the reasons we broke up (and the fact I was Catholic and the fact he was an asshole). I couldn't ever get used to the idea of 'belonging' to the church and people feeling like they knew me/us because of what he did. It was life in a fish bowl and I hated it. If I went to Mass on Sunday instead of Saturday, and thus missed 'his' church, I was questioned. I got asked all the time how it felt to not be a 'real' Christian. (I once said, 'Original Christian, right here, thanks. How's it feel to be a mediocre facsimile?' Not my best moment, but corner me in the bathroom as I'm changing a tampon and all bets are off.) The people who are giving you gifts or what to have you over for dinner (might) honestly just want to wish you well. The email lady is just straight-up rude. Ask your FI how he wants to handle it. If you're getting married in your church, they could attend the ceremony only, since it's a public space.

I've thought something very similar to this many times but have thus far managed to keep from speaking it aloud.  Of course I've never been cornered like that so I'd probably lose it on them.

I would hope the couple with the gift and dinner invitation just want to wish their pastor (and by extension, you) well and happy in your upcoming nuptials.  The e-mail ladies are crazy and I hope your FI has better advice on how to handle their nutty assumptions.  I don't suppose one of the other pastors has a wife with helpful advice?  If necessary for quick deflection I would use the vague "we couldn't invite everyone" line.

Amyzen83

I agree with HisGirl in that church people could be very passive agressive and I might add, as a Christian I feel I've been encouraged to be a doormat because after all we are supposed to show grace and love to those who've hurt me. And just get thicker skin. Well my thick skin is cutting destructive and negative people out of my life.

As for your current dilemma, I think this woman might mean well, she sounds old, but is probubly expecting an old school cake and punch type of reception either way it's rude and presumptuous to invite yourself to someone else's wedding. I'd calmly reply back that invites have already been sent and you don't mean to offend everyone but you are unable to invite everyone that you'd like to the reception and wedding. Be prepared for her to show up at the ceremony.

Mandafly84

If/when you respond, don't even give a reason for why they have not been invited.  People like that will find a way around every reason you give.  As PPs alluded to, budget restrictions? Take up a collection!  Capacity?  Different venue.  Do not give a reason.

"Hi so-and-so, thank you so much for your email.  Unfortunately, we are not able to include everyone that we would like to, and the invitations have already been sent.  I appreciate your understanding.."

Polite and firm.  End of story.

VerizonGirl

I would shut down any future emails by responding using this sentence:

"My parents, as parents of the bride, are hosting the wedding, and it's my understanding that they are done with the guest list."

Amyzen83

I would totally pull the parents card!

HisGirlFriday13

I believe that OP was married for 25 years and is now divorced, making the parents card seem implausible at best and an outright lie at worst.

I would, however, say, 'Our invitations have been sent and our guest list is finalised. I'm sure you understand that weddings involve making decisions, sometimes hard ones, and I trust that you will respect our decision regarding our guest list.'

I wouldn't give her the social nicety of saying, 'We weren't able to invite everyone we wanted,' because that rewards her rude behaviour by letting her think she was wanted. 

I would, however, probably remind her that the church is a public space and she is therefore more than welcome to attend the ceremony -- and that, after all, the spiritual part is the important part, and the part that matters and she'll get to witness that part, which is what she seems to want. 

I would also mention it to your FI and let him handle it.

RebeccaB88

I believe there are a few pastor's wives on the Christian weddings board. Maybe they would have ideas on this subject. 

Sounds just like a bunch of busybodies who think their church work entitles them to a certain status in your life. Shut that stuff down now, or you never will.  

abbyj700

Oh.Wow.

Yeah - perhaps you and FI could talk to her together after church one day soon. Tell her you saw her e-mail, appreciate the support but the guest list has already been completed and invitations sent out. Or maybe just you or him so that she doesn't feel like you're ganging up on her. I'm sure you know - church politics are the last things you want to play into someone's hand on and come out looking like that evil pastors wife. :-)

Firm, short and sweet - that's all I can figure you can do.

Inkdancer

abbyj700 said:

Oh.Wow.

Yeah - perhaps you and FI could talk to her together after church one day soon. Tell her you saw her e-mail, appreciate the support but the guest list has already been completed and invitations sent out. Or maybe just you or him so that she doesn't feel like you're ganging up on her. I'm sure you know - church politics are the last things you want to play into someone's hand on and come out looking like that evil pastors wife. :-)

Firm, short and sweet - that's all I can figure you can do.

Your comment made me think more about church politics, and then I thought: why did she send this email to just OP, and not the pastor also? This isn't your (singular) wedding day, it's your (plural) wedding day. The two of you.

It feels weird for her to go behind a pastor's back like that.

Amyzen83

Right??? Perhaps she feels it would be too ballzy to ask the pastor directly so she figures if she goes through the pastors wife, you'd be more likely to cave, either way I thinks pretty shitty and manipulative. Gah crazy old church ladies!

HisGirlFriday13

I don't think we know that the OP's problem lady is a crazy old church lady -- I think she could be a younger (still crazy) church lady.

I also think, at least from my experience, that people see some things as 'too small to be the pastor's problem,' and this might be one of them. 

The minister I dated very much had the mindset -- and his church conformed to this -- that there were Women's Duties and Men's Duties and ne'er the twain should meet.

He absolutely believed that any and all social co-ordination was my job -- from RSVP'ing to events to arranging dinner with his parents, to agreeing to social outings with friends. That was The Woman's Job.

Also, in the very short time we were dating, people would give me messages to give to him -- 'Tell Pastor we'd love to have you two over for dinner;' 'Tell Pastor we hope he's feeling better;' 'Tell Pastor this, that, or the other thing.' 

I routinely said, 'I am not his social secretary; if you have a message for him, you should e-mail him (his email is in the bulletin) or call him (his cell phone is in the bulletin) or stop by office hours (they're in the bulletin) or tell the church secretary, whose job IS to take messages for people.'

Amyzen83

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I don't think we know that the OP's problem lady is a crazy old church lady -- I think she could be a younger (still crazy) church lady.

I also think, at least from my experience, that people see some things as 'too small to be the pastor's problem,' and this might be one of them. 

The minister I dated very much had the mindset -- and his church conformed to this -- that there were Women's Duties and Men's Duties and ne'er the twain should meet.

He absolutely believed that any and all social co-ordination was my job -- from RSVP'ing to events to arranging dinner with his parents, to agreeing to social outings with friends. That was The Woman's Job.

Also, in the very short time we were dating, people would give me messages to give to him -- 'Tell Pastor we'd love to have you two over for dinner;' 'Tell Pastor we hope he's feeling better;' 'Tell Pastor this, that, or the other thing.' 

I routinely said, 'I am not his social secretary; if you have a message for him, you should e-mail him (his email is in the bulletin) or call him (his cell phone is in the bulletin) or stop by office hours (they're in the bulletin) or tell the church secretary, whose job IS to take messages for people.'

True the woman's age was not stated I amend it to she's just cray cray!

HisGirlFriday, it sounds like your ex is very old fashioned thinking! That stuff would drive me up the wall! Sounds like it did for you. I understand pastors have a lot on their plate with running a church but it sucks that people forget their SOs have lives of their own too!

offthemarket915

It comes off to me as if this woman, and the others who think "so fondly" of you, are just jockeying for an invite so they can feel good about themselves and prove that they made the cut, and are in the pastor's inner circle.  It may take place within a church, but it all sounds straight outta highschool. 

HisGirlFriday13

@Amyzen83, that is one of the many, many reasons he's an ex. 

His church (evangelical Protestant) was absolutely very much like high school -- complete with cliques and cool kids and super-private events. It was pretty awful.

Amyzen83

Euch and they wonder why people leave the church! It's because if hs shenanigans!

LAM524

Thanks for the much needed laughs!!! My head is still spinning. I havent had the chance to have a conversation with my fiance about approach yet, our schedules are crazy this week.

Unfortunately I cant pull the "parents hosting" card...Im 47! Or could I? The woman who sent the email is in her mid 50's..so old..nah!! Busy body? She has that reputation but until now, Ive/we've never had any such dealings with her.

We are not having the ceremony at the church. For a few reason, original reasons that, 15 months ago, had wonderful motive behind them (one being more a family reunion). Turns at, 22 of those family members arent coming. But this is ok...because their will be a reunion for my side.:) Every time I walk into that church building, Im on "display". A huge magnifying glass...and that older generation... the toughest ones!  I just wanted my/our special time/private/with family and some very close friends. To be able to be in the moment and not worry if I sneeze wrong is my deepest desire for our day...not to "perform" in front of an "audience" of 600-700 people. Geez, if I want to have a glass of wine....I want to!

We are having a "blessing of the marriage" and hosting a cake/refreshments time afterwards at church when we return from honeymoon. Knotties actually suggested this and when we approached the Sr. Pastor, he loved the idea. He thinks it will show us as an "official" husband and wife. Not sure it matters how we are "seen"...geez...our word should be enough. But it is what it is...and for those who care, well then they will attend.

I also wondered why I was emailed and not my fiance. I dont know for sure but there is "sorta" a behavior that does happen with males approaching males/females approaching females in church...this church although, I too get approached "tell him blah blah blah....have him call me..."  from males and females.  I do agree that some people do not want to approach a Pastor with "small" things.

My fear is that I was approached because I will be " a Pastors wife' therefore I should do the "right" thing.  There are 3 other Pastors but only one is still married and she (pershaps very wisely) makes her time/involvement very short. She doesnt even serve/volunteer her time. After being there 8 years, Id venture to say that she reached a limit and pulled out as much as possible. Her husband respects her choice and it works for them. People talk though, of course! I hesitate on approaching her because it was her advice I sought when I was getting the "sex" questions. To my surprise she told me that I have to be an open book!! Her husband, told me that I did not!

I feel somethings are off limits. He is/will be my husband before he is their Pastor...and we are entitled to a private life. After all, if he leaves that church, he is still my husband while not their Pastor. Maybe I am wrong and in for one big mess, but I believe in privacy...and somethings are just sacred...no ones business!!! Boundaries! Right?

I just want to marry the man and support/serve with the "Pastor"..thats all. Hmmm...I better find a support group!

@offthemarket...its funny you mentioned the "cut." When we first got engaged, people started to become our "friends" all of the sudden. The timing was suspicious so I would tease him by calling him "willy wonka" (people want the golden ticket invite).

Amyzen83

OP it sounds like you and fi have a great plan and I really respect church leaders who are real and aren't afraid to be themselves, as a "church baby" someone who grew up in the church I totally get the fish bowl thing and it's hella anoying because I'm not even in leadership lol! Anyway from one Christian to another good luck with avoiding the crazy! And damn it have your wine and drink it too! If people talk, who cares you got your wine and are happy what of it

HisGirlFriday13

You are absolutely entitled to your private life, regardless of what they think.

One of the biggest misconceptions I found in Christians was the belief that accountability meant transparency -- that you had to be accountable and transparent to anyone and everyone who asked you about it, regardless of who they were.

When my ex and I dated, I had women corner me in the bathroom and ask me, 'So, are you a virgin? Are you remaining pure in your heart and thoughts?' Because I was dating their pastor, they felt that those questions were appropriate, because they felt his life concerned them, too.

I always said, 'I'm sorry, but that's really none of your business. I have a group of female friends with whom I discuss personal things, and of course I have my confessor, but you are neither of those, and I'm not going to answer your questions.'

I sympathise with the wife of the other pastor who has distanced herself from the church because of that. I understand that pastors are held to a higher standard -- and rightly so, in a lot of ways -- but that doesn't transfer to their spouses, who are allowed to have personal lives and personal time and not be questioned.

If you're having a church reception, that should be good enough for everyone. You can also always say to this busy-body, 'As I'm sure you understand, we kept the wedding invitation list private to just our family and close friends. We want to keep certain aspects of our private life private, as I'm sure you understand.'

FiancB

@HisGirlFriday13, that's awful, and it's just plain nosiness veiled as concern. I'm sure a pastor would've considered taking those things into account and can make his own decisions. Jeez. I don't think I would've even had a response to that.

I can't relate to dating a pastor, but FI is a high school teacher and in this tiny town it's like dating a celebrity. If some kid sees us at a restaurant drinking a beer, next thing you know rumor has it that we were dancing on tables with lampshades on our heads. One of many reasons we are wanting to move to the cities where we can have a little more anonymity.

abbyj700

Haha @ FiancB - having grown up in a small town with a mother as a teacher I get what you're saying. People would tell me when they saw my mother anywhere from a local restaurant to the shopping mall. My response always was "Shit, they usually keep her locked in her storage closet at work with the rest of the other non-humans. I'll call the school and let them know." People would just stare at me and then walk away...

Mandafly84

HisGirlFriday13 said:

You are absolutely entitled to your private life, regardless of what they think.

One of the biggest misconceptions I found in Christians was the belief that accountability meant transparency -- that you had to be accountable and transparent to anyone and everyone who asked you about it, regardless of who they were.

When my ex and I dated, I had women corner me in the bathroom and ask me, 'So, are you a virgin? Are you remaining pure in your heart and thoughts?' Because I was dating their pastor, they felt that those questions were appropriate, because they felt his life concerned them, too.

I always said, 'I'm sorry, but that's really none of your business. I have a group of female friends with whom I discuss personal things, and of course I have my confessor, but you are neither of those, and I'm not going to answer your questions.'

I sympathise with the wife of the other pastor who has distanced herself from the church because of that. I understand that pastors are held to a higher standard -- and rightly so, in a lot of ways -- but that doesn't transfer to their spouses, who are allowed to have personal lives and personal time and not be questioned.

If you're having a church reception, that should be good enough for everyone. You can also always say to this busy-body, 'As I'm sure you understand, we kept the wedding invitation list private to just our family and close friends. We want to keep certain aspects of our private life private, as I'm sure you understand.'

I'm curious - how did they respond when you would say this?

HisGirlFriday13

@Mandafly84 -- At first, they were taken aback, because no one had ever said that to them before. Then they tried to guilt-trip me into telling them ('Well, if you have nothing to hide, why won't you tell us?'). When that didn't work, they went to the elders about how I was being 'un-graceful' and 'un-accountable' and they questioned my faith.

When my then-BF now ex didn't have my back, I ended things, because I wasn't going to live my life in a fish bowl with no moral support from my partner. 

Amyzen83

HisGirlFriday13 said:

@Mandafly84 -- At first, they were taken aback, because no one had ever said that to them before. Then they tried to guilt-trip me into telling them ('Well, if you have nothing to hide, why won't you tell us?'). When that didn't work, they went to the elders about how I was being 'un-graceful' and 'un-accountable' and they questioned my faith.

When my then-BF now ex didn't have my back, I ended things, because I wasn't going to live my life in a fish bowl with no moral support from my partner. 

That sounds awful! I'm sorry you had to deal with that BS! I get that as a church leader you are held to a higher standard, but that's what mentors and prayer partners are for! Not some nosey hen pecking gossips! Good for you for putting those busybodies and their place!

Honestly I never had any desire to go into ministry despite how active in the church I was for the reason that you can't really separate life and work,

HisGirlFriday13

@Amyzen83 -- I'm still friends with one of the pastors at that church, who actually had my back the whole time and was like, 'This is none of y'all's business, let her alone.' He told me conversationally once that my ex-BF has had several attempts at dating, all of which have failed, in part because he won't man up and tell the church busy-bodies to leave the women alone.

Amyzen83

That's really cool of your pastor friend to stand up for you! Sucks for your ex that he has no back bone! You'd think after enough failed relationships he'd get the hint that these busybodies are scaring them away.

Amyzen83

Musikalbunni said:

My parents are pastors. My grandparents are pastors, and my brother is a youth pastor. When I was younger, my mom use to jokingly tell me not to marry a pastor/minister. I think there is a truth to every "just kidding." I've seen how scrutinized their marriage is and how many people have pried into their lives in the name of "transparency."

My parents are happy with the guy I'm marrying, who happens to be an atheist. Irony much? 

My brother' wife hates her lifestyle. I know this because she has shared this with me. It's hard to be a ministers wife, and I empathize with her. A lot of people keep asking her why she has chosen not to have kids. When we talk, she says she hasn't had kids because she is overwhelmed at the idea of being under the microscope at church. She has told my brother that they can start a family once he resigns and completely steps down of ministerial duties.  

Not dogging religion or churchgoers, but a lot of ministers/pastors don't know how to apply boundaries with the flock and vice versa. There's a lot of people prying into their personal lives. I speak out of experience. I have ministers constantly around me. 

I don't go to church anymore. I've come out of the closet as an agnostic, but I appreciate what the church (whatever denomination it is) brings to society. 

Whenever I do pop my head inside church though - (recently for my nieces' dedication) peeps are often passive aggressive and want to know too much of the types of "sins" I'm participating in. 

Good thing is my parents are accepting of me. We've agreed to disagree when it
comes to church doctrine, but we all agree we are all family. My parents quickly squash nosy peeps
whenever they ask them about their "prodigal daughter."

How rude! Glad you have good supportive parents! If it were me I'd tell these church people "I left the church and faith because of self righteous busybodies like you getting all up in my business and then casting judgement! How do you like them apples?"

PrettyGirlLost

LAM2228 said:

Thanks for the much needed laughs!!! My head is still spinning. I havent had the chance to have a conversation with my fiance about approach yet, our schedules are crazy this week.

Unfortunately I cant pull the "parents hosting" card...Im 47! Or could I? The woman who sent the email is in her mid 50's..so old..nah!! Busy body? She has that reputation but until now, Ive/we've never had any such dealings with her.

We are not having the ceremony at the church. For a few reason, original reasons that, 15 months ago, had wonderful motive behind them (one being more a family reunion). Turns at, 22 of those family members arent coming. But this is ok...because their will be a reunion for my side.:) Every time I walk into that church building, Im on "display". A huge magnifying glass...and that older generation... the toughest ones!  I just wanted my/our special time/private/with family and some very close friends. To be able to be in the moment and not worry if I sneeze wrong is my deepest desire for our day...not to "perform" in front of an "audience" of 600-700 people. Geez, if I want to have a glass of wine....I want to!

We are having a "blessing of the marriage" and hosting a cake/refreshments time afterwards at church when we return from honeymoon. Knotties actually suggested this and when we approached the Sr. Pastor, he loved the idea. He thinks it will show us as an "official" husband and wife. Not sure it matters how we are "seen"...geez...our word should be enough. But it is what it is...and for those who care, well then they will attend.

I also wondered why I was emailed and not my fiance. I dont know for sure but there is "sorta" a behavior that does happen with males approaching males/females approaching females in church...this church although, I too get approached "tell him blah blah blah....have him call me..."  from males and females.  I do agree that some people do not want to approach a Pastor with "small" things.

My fear is that I was approached because I will be " a Pastors wife' therefore I should do the "right" thing.  There are 3 other Pastors but only one is still married and she (pershaps very wisely) makes her time/involvement very short. She doesnt even serve/volunteer her time. After being there 8 years, Id venture to say that she reached a limit and pulled out as much as possible. Her husband respects her choice and it works for them. People talk though, of course! I hesitate on approaching her because it was her advice I sought when I was getting the "sex" questions. To my surprise she told me that I have to be an open book!! Her husband, told me that I did not!

I feel somethings are off limits. He is/will be my husband before he is their Pastor...and we are entitled to a private life. After all, if he leaves that church, he is still my husband while not their Pastor. Maybe I am wrong and in for one big mess, but I believe in privacy...and somethings are just sacred...no ones business!!! Boundaries! Right?

I just want to marry the man and support/serve with the "Pastor"..thats all. Hmmm...I better find a support group!

@offthemarket...its funny you mentioned the "cut." When we first got engaged, people started to become our "friends" all of the sudden. The timing was suspicious so I would tease him by calling him "willy wonka" (people want the golden ticket invite).

@LAM2228 I think now is a good time to start practicing the art of non engagement- that is, practice not engaging people in discussions you don't care to have by ignoring emails/texts/etc, changing the subject when brought up in person, politely closing a topic by saying something like, "I'm sorry, but I don't care to discuss that with you," or "I'm sorry, that topic isn't up for discussion," or "I'm sorry, that's not something I care to discuss, " and learning to make a polite exit when people attempt to badger you into conversation.

Your FI's work life- the activities of the church- should be separate from your family's personal life, and please don't be afraid to gracefully let his parishioners know where those lines and boundaries are, and what things in your lives are frankly none of their damned business.

If establishing and maintaining boundaries causes people at church to gossip about you, side eye you, etc, so what?  Practice not giving a shit about the opinions of your FI's parishioners, too.  Be polite and courteous to them, friendly with those you feel like maintaining a friendship with, but don't feel obligated to invite them into your life at all times just by virtue of the fact that your FI's chosen profession is to be a pastor. 

PrettyGirlLost

Amyzen83 said:

My parents are pastors. My grandparents are pastors, and my brother is a youth pastor. When I was younger, my mom use to jokingly tell me not to marry a pastor/minister. I think there is a truth to every "just kidding." I've seen how scrutinized their marriage is and how many people have pried into their lives in the name of "transparency."

My parents are happy with the guy I'm marrying, who happens to be an atheist. Irony much? 

My brother' wife hates her lifestyle. I know this because she has shared this with me. It's hard to be a ministers wife, and I empathize with her. A lot of people keep asking her why she has chosen not to have kids. When we talk, she says she hasn't had kids because she is overwhelmed at the idea of being under the microscope at church. She has told my brother that they can start a family once he resigns and completely steps down of ministerial duties.  

Not dogging religion or churchgoers, but a lot of ministers/pastors don't know how to apply boundaries with the flock and vice versa. There's a lot of people prying into their personal lives. I speak out of experience. I have ministers constantly around me. 

I don't go to church anymore. I've come out of the closet as an agnostic, but I appreciate what the church (whatever denomination it is) brings to society. 

Whenever I do pop my head inside church though - (recently for my nieces' dedication) peeps are often passive aggressive and want to know too much of the types of "sins" I'm participating in. 

Good thing is my parents are accepting of me. We've agreed to disagree when it comes to church doctrine, but we all agree we are all family. My parents quickly squash nosy peeps whenever they ask them about their "prodigal daughter."

How rude! Glad you have good supportive parents! If it were me I'd tell these church people "I left the church and faith because of self righteous busybodies like you getting all up in my business and then casting judgement! How do you like them apples?"

This is what I. just. can't. stand.  I believe Jesus pretty explicitly states that everyone should mind their own damn business in life and leave the judging to Him and His Father.

PrettyGirlLost

Musikalbunni said:

The only thing my dad judges me on is where I take my car to get fixed. Otherwise, I'm good on his book.

Hahaha!