Guest etiquette

somhairle1314

I am invited to my fiancé's brother’s wedding where she is part of the wedding party and I am not. When I dress formal, I dress in a kilt, Jacket, vest, etc. (formal kilt attire). I, a guest, am being ordered not to wear a kilt. My first response was, "have fun, tell me what it's like." However my fiancé stated that my attendance was important to her. I am at a crossroads and don't know what to do. I feel like the Bride has crossed a line of etiquette in banning an article of clothing for a guest; I feel like I'm being told you can come, but you can't be yourself. I would understand if I were part of the wedding party I would need to match the rest of the party, but this is not the case; am I wrong? Angry Scotsman.

jerkyanne

You are not incorrect.

Formal kilt attire is even acceptable in black tie events. She has absolutely crossed a line because other than telling guests to dress black tie there is no other acceptable dictation of guest's dress. The bride is being rude.

I'm fully in support of you showing up in it anyway. Particularly as the fiancè of a proud Scotsman.

CMGragain

I'll bet you have great legs!  Bridezilla has overstepped proper etiquette.  You may wear your formal kilt if you wish, but it will probably cause some murmurs.  You are probably used to that.
It is really up to you what you wear.  If you want to please your FI, I would say, just this once, wear a suit.  If she supports it, go ahead and wear the kilt.  Bridezilla will probably have a meltdown.

Grandma was a Graham.

lookame3639

I think it's awesome you wear a formal kilt at formal events. It shows you love and support your heritage. Honestly I have no idea why the bride would ban your kilt. Either way she's overstepped the boundaries and broke etiquette. You are not allowed to tell a guest how to dress unless it is a black or white tie affair (then it is only acceptable to put "black tie" on the invite/spread word of mouth and there are strict rules to follow as a host such as it's after 6pm)

it's important to your fiance that you attend but is it important you dress in a suit?

LondonLisa

That is really surprising and completely out of line for the Bride to make that requirement.  Even the British military allows a kilt to be worn instead of trousers with their most formal uniforms for evening events. I think your Fi needs to have a chat with her brother and let him know that you two will come in appropriate formality but that it is not OK for the bride to dictate what that means! You two are a team now, and she should realise how important this is to you. I would be offended as well!

OliveOilsMom

My friend dated a Scotsman for a while.  They attended a family wedding for her side during that time period.  He wore his formal kilt and it was a big hit with the family.  I wonder if the bride fears you will stand out more than her, since its rare in the States for people to wear formal kilts to formal events.  

I think that your FI should speak with her brother.  And I also think you have every right to decline the invitation since you cannot wear your normal formal wear.

abbyj700

Yes, being ordered not to wear something is out of line. Have your fiancee talk to her brother so that he knows that this isn't okay. If they still insist - don't wear it - but find a way to still stick out some and be yourself. It will get your point across and hopefully not start more of a big family feud. 

missnc77

Since it is your fiance's family, and it's important to her you go, maybe you can just be the bigger person in this situation and leave the kilt at home? I know we all want to passive aggressively rebel in situations like this, but I think sometimes you also have to pick your battles. At the same time, if this is something really important to you, then maybe it’s a battle worth picking.

kitsunegari89

She's being an asshole, but also doesn't want her day being turned into "the day that one guy wore a kilt". As obnoxious as it is, I can see where she's coming from. Don't go if you can't handle not wearing the kilt. It's not as if you wear it every day as part of your religion (I was involved in a wedding where a guest was asked not to wear a hijab).

phira

She's wrong. I don't know what your fiancee's family's dynamic is like, but I'd talk to her (and maybe her brother) as calmly as you can about the situation. I'd either be the bigger person and attend in other attire, or I'd wear the kilt anyway.

climbingsingle

Bride is wrong. She shouldn't be banning you from wearing your kilt. 

HisGirlFriday13

mrshutzler said:

She's being an asshole, but also doesn't want her day being turned into "the day that one guy wore a kilt". As obnoxious as it is, I can see where she's coming from. Don't go if you can't handle not wearing the kilt. It's not as if you wear it every day as part of your religion (I was involved in a wedding where a guest was asked not to wear a hijab).

You're right on the first bold, wrong on the second.

She is being an asshole -- and a bridezilla. 

She 'doesn't want her wedding day turned into 'the day that one guy wore a kilt'?' Are you fecking serious?? Brides don't get to dictate guests attire. Period. End of story.

Also, OP isn't a random guest -- he is almost family. He says it's his fiancee's (two e's for a woman) brother's wedding. That means the bride is his FSIL and the groom is his FBIL. I can hardly think of a more offensive thing to say to someone who is going to be in your family than, 'Your ethnicity and heritage offend me, so please don't display them at my wedding, because IT'S ALL ABOUT ME AND MY SPECIAL DAY.'

No. Absolutely not. 

Also, your final bold shows that your friends are incredibly rude. You may NEVER tell someone what to wear or what not to wear ESPECIALLY NOT when it relates to their religion. Holy fuck.

artbyallie

I hope your fiancé is standing up for you to his/her (not sure if typo or same-sex couple since the feminine is spelled fiancée) family for you. This is a ridiculous demand since a formal kilt is perfectly acceptable unless the wedding is casual. Wear it in defiance and let her try and kick you out and look the Bridezilla in front of everyone or let your fiancé inform them you both will not be attending in solidarity.

HisGirlFriday13

artbyallie said:

I hope your fiancé is standing up for you to his/her (not sure if typo or same-sex couple since the feminine is spelled fiancée) family for you. This is a ridiculous demand since a formal kilt is perfectly acceptable unless the wedding is casual. Wear it in defiance and let her try and kick you out and look the Bridezilla in front of everyone or let your fiancé inform them you both will not be attending in solidarity.

OP said 'fiance's brother's wedding where SHE is part of the wedding party,' which was why I corrected to the feminine. 

jerkyanne

missnc77 said:

Since it is
your fiance's family, and it's important to her you go, maybe you can just be
the bigger person in this situation and leave the kilt at home? I know we all
want to passive aggressively rebel in situations like this, but I think
sometimes you also have to pick your battles. At the same time, if this is
something really important to you, then maybe it’s a battle worth picking.

mrshutzler said:

She's being an asshole, but also doesn't want her day being turned into "the day that one guy wore a kilt". As obnoxious as it is, I can see where she's coming from. Don't go if you can't handle not wearing the kilt. It's not as if you wear it every day as part of your religion (I was involved in a wedding where a guest was asked not to wear a hijab).

Nope. He is wearing formal attire. It has nothing to do with being the bigger man. Him wearing a kilt is not going to be the most noticeable thing there. Just because the bride is being a bitch doesn't mean he is being a passive aggressive rebel. It's essentially the equivelant of a bride saying that someones suit or dress wasn't nice enough.

And kilts are a very significant part of Scottish heritage. His kilt would have his tartan on it and not only represent where he comes from but specifically who his family and he is. If anyone asked my significant other not to wear his kilt at an event I would support him not attending, and might not myself, no matter my role..

And I can barely fathom the amount of nerve it takes someone to ask a guest to not wear a hijab.

LakeR2014

somhairle1314 said:

I am invited to my fiancé's brother’s wedding where she is part of the wedding party and I am not. When I dress formal, I dress in a kilt, Jacket, vest, etc. (formal kilt attire). I, a guest, am being ordered not to wear a kilt. My first response was, "have fun, tell me what it's like." However my fiancé stated that my attendance was important to her. I am at a crossroads and don't know what to do. I feel like the Bride has crossed a line of etiquette in banning an article of clothing for a guest; I feel like I'm being told you can come, but you can't be yourself. I would understand if I were part of the wedding party I would need to match the rest of the party, but this is not the case; am I wrong? Angry Scotsman.

Having just been witnessed to some kilt wearing for St. Patrick's Day festivities, I'll add my two cents here.

1) The bride is in the wrong and is not allowed to dictate her guests attire.

However (BIG however)...after this weekend, I have a few questions for you, OP:

1)  Do you regularly wear your kilt, to fancy events, to honor your heritage and not solely as a 'Hey look at me event?'  If so, bride is still wrong.   If not, bride is still wrong, but you lose some sympathy from me.

2)  Do you get actively inebriated while wearing said kilt and have an issue keeping the kilt on or refraining from showing your tidly-bits?  If not, bride is wrong.  If so, might make me question your preference for wearing it.

As I said before the bride has no right to dictate how you dress, ever.   But after recent events this past weekend - I can somewhat understand her hesitancy.   If you're like the douche this weekend, to play nice, I'd go without your kilt.  If you're not and you're truly doing it to honor your heritage and NOT because 'Hey look at me!' then I say wear it proudly. 

daria24

The bride is completely in the wrong. It would be like ordering an Indian woman not to wear a sari, or a Chinese woman a qipao. 

Personally I don't care if your normal wedding attire is the Philly Phanatic costume-it is poor manners to tell an adult what they can or cannot wear to a wedding. 

AroundTheBlock

Halo, A Shomhairle; fàilte gu an Snaidhm.

Of course you are in the right to wear your kilt; and of course your future sister-in-law is being culturally oppressive and vulgar by not recognizing the appropriateness of your attire, and the inappropriateness of trying to teach her guests how to dress themselves.

The which being said, that's not your problem. You responded with appropriate gaelic dignity, but your own partner doesn't support that choice. Which raises some questions you may need to face: does she understand the validity of your choice, and the struggle that Gaels have had to face to maintain their culture in the face of deliberate oppression in their homeland, and wide dispersal in the Gaelic diaspora -- or does she think that this kilt-wearing of yours is some whim that you will outgrow. If she does respect Gaelic culture, then why is she asking this of you? -- perhaps because she feels insecure and only marginally accepted by her new sister-in-law, in which case you may choose to wear a suit just this once, out of compassion for her. If she does not respect Gaelic culture, then what are the chances that she will learn to respect it in the future -- because you cannot change who you are and she will disrespect you, too, if she disrespects your roots.

Passive-aggressive responses leap readily to mind: wear jeans and a tartan mac-jack shirt; gift your fiance with a tartan sash that she can don over her brides-maid dress as soon as her official duties are over; leave early to go to a ceilidh. But passive-aggressive responses are almost always just as impolite as is the bride's demand. So you have to choose: 1) wear a suit (with a tartan tie if that would help -- I think the syncretism is actually worse than just wearing a suit) and support your fiancee; or 2) agree with your fiancee that you will go and support her, but you will wear your kilt anyway; or 3) agree with your fiancee that your self-respect is more important than her need for support, and stay away despite your fiancee's request; or 4) find a new fiancee whose values include respecting Gaelic culture.

LondonLisa

grumbledore

Halo, A Shomhairle; fàilte gu an Snaidhm.

Of course you are in the right to wear your kilt; and of course your future sister-in-law is being culturally oppressive and vulgar by not recognizing the appropriateness of your attire, and the inappropriateness of trying to teach her guests how to dress themselves.

The which being said, that's not your problem. You responded with appropriate gaelic dignity, but your own partner doesn't support that choice. Which raises some questions you may need to face: does she understand the validity of your choice, and the struggle that Gaels have had to face to maintain their culture in the face of deliberate oppression in their homeland, and wide dispersal in the Gaelic diaspora -- or does she think that this kilt-wearing of yours is some whim that you will outgrow. If she does respect Gaelic culture, then why is she asking this of you? -- perhaps because she feels insecure and only marginally accepted by her new sister-in-law, in which case you may choose to wear a suit just this once, out of compassion for her. If she does not respect Gaelic culture, then what are the chances that she will learn to respect it in the future -- because you cannot change who you are and she will disrespect you, too, if she disrespects your roots.

Passive-aggressive responses leap readily to mind: wear jeans and a tartan mac-jack shirt; gift your fiance with a tartan sash that she can don over her brides-maid dress as soon as her official duties are over; leave early to go to a ceilidh. But passive-aggressive responses are almost always just as impolite as is the bride's demand. So you have to choose: 1) wear a suit (with a tartan tie if that would help -- I think the syncretism is actually worse than just wearing a suit) and support your fiancee; or 2) agree with your fiancee that you will go and support her, but you will wear your kilt anyway; or 3) agree with your fiancee that your self-respect is more important than her need for support, and stay away despite your fiancee's request; or 4) find a new fiancee whose values include respecting Gaelic culture.

I actually think ATB nailed it this time.

grumbledore

(Other than any language issues which I have no knowledge to refute.)

LondonLisa

Sorry I'm having major technical issues on my phone right now- Didn't mean to DD! Will update soon....

Belthil

According to Google translate she said Hello, the knot welcomes you...

I'm going to agree with ATB. I think the big concern here is that your fiancee isn't supporting you and your heritage. Will she support your decision if you decide you want to get married in a kilt?

artbyallie

HisGirlFriday13 said:

artbyallie said:

I hope your fiancé is standing up for you to his/her (not sure if typo or same-sex couple since the feminine is spelled fiancée) family for you. This is a ridiculous demand since a formal kilt is perfectly acceptable unless the wedding is casual. Wear it in defiance and let her try and kick you out and look the Bridezilla in front of everyone or let your fiancé inform them you both will not be attending in solidarity.

OP said 'fiance's brother's wedding where SHE is part of the wedding party,' which was why I corrected to the feminine. 

Okay, thanks, missed that.

artbyallie

Rereading, OP, you need to get your fiancée on the same page. It's important to her for you to attend; that's fine. But if you attend, you're going to be in a kilt. So she needs to be on your side one way or the other because you two should be number one in each other's lives. I stand by my post: attend together in the attire you like or decline together. It is never okay for a bride to dictate wedding attire of someone who is not in the wedding party.

ETA: I would have been thrilled to have a guest attend in a full kilt ensemble. Strictly speaking, my wedding was not formal enough, but I wouldn't have cared about the kilt-wearer being overdressed because it would have been so cool.

BritLady

@LondonLisa Only the Scottish regiments are allowed to do so though. My dad was a Royal Scots Dragoon, and has some wonderful pictures and stories. Alas, it was before my time.

LondonLisa

BritLady said:

@LondonLisa Only the Scottish regiments are allowed to do so though. My dad was a Royal Scots Dragoon, and has some wonderful pictures and stories. Alas, it was before my time.

Maybe in the British Army, but in the Royal Navy they are allowed to wear a kilt instead of trousers regardless.

jerkyanne

LakeR2014 said:

somhairle1314 said:

I am invited to my fiancé's brother’s wedding where she is part of the wedding party and I am not. When I dress formal, I dress in a kilt, Jacket, vest, etc. (formal kilt attire). I, a guest, am being ordered not to wear a kilt. My first response was, "have fun, tell me what it's like." However my fiancé stated that my attendance was important to her. I am at a crossroads and don't know what to do. I feel like the Bride has crossed a line of etiquette in banning an article of clothing for a guest; I feel like I'm being told you can come, but you can't be yourself. I would understand if I were part of the wedding party I would need to match the rest of the party, but this is not the case; am I wrong?

Angry Scotsman.

Having just been witnessed to some kilt wearing for St. Patrick's Day festivities, I'll add my two cents here.

1) The bride is in the wrong and is not allowed to dictate her guests attire.
However (BIG however)...after this weekend, I have a few questions for you, OP:

1)  Do you regularly wear your kilt, to fancy events, to honor your heritage and not solely as a 'Hey look at me event?'  If so, bride is still wrong.   If not, bride is still wrong, but you lose some sympathy from me.

2)  Do you get actively inebriated while wearing said kilt and have an issue keeping the kilt on or refraining from showing your tidly-bits?  If not, bride is wrong.  If so, might make me question your preference for wearing it.
As I said before the bride has no right to dictate how you dress, ever.   But after recent events this past weekend - I can somewhat understand her hesitancy.   If you're like the douche this weekend, to play nice, I'd go without your kilt.  If you're not and you're truly doing it to honor your heritage and NOT because 'Hey look at me!' then I say wear it proudly. 








STUCK IN THE STUPID BOX ARGHHH:
WTF?! What an incredibly prejudicial and small minded thing to say. I don't give a rat's ass what you witnesses at a St Patty's Day anything (also, the man's Scottish not Irish) you have zero right to stereotype in such a manner. I am jawdroppingly dumbfounded...

pinkshorts27

jerkyanne said:

somhairle1314 said:

I am invited to my fiancé's brother’s wedding where she is part of the wedding party and I am not. When I dress formal, I dress in a kilt, Jacket, vest, etc. (formal kilt attire). I, a guest, am being ordered not to wear a kilt. My first response was, "have fun, tell me what it's like." However my fiancé stated that my attendance was important to her. I am at a crossroads and don't know what to do. I feel like the Bride has crossed a line of etiquette in banning an article of clothing for a guest; I feel like I'm being told you can come, but you can't be yourself. I would understand if I were part of the wedding party I would need to match the rest of the party, but this is not the case; am I wrong? Angry Scotsman.

Having just been witnessed to some kilt wearing for St. Patrick's Day festivities, I'll add my two cents here.

1) The bride is in the wrong and is not allowed to dictate her guests attire.
However (BIG however)...after this weekend, I have a few questions for you, OP:

1)  Do you regularly wear your kilt, to fancy events, to honor your heritage and not solely as a 'Hey look at me event?'  If so, bride is still wrong.   If not, bride is still wrong, but you lose some sympathy from me.

2)  Do you get actively inebriated while wearing said kilt and have an issue keeping the kilt on or refraining from showing your tidly-bits?  If not, bride is wrong.  If so, might make me question your preference for wearing it.
As I said before the bride has no right to dictate how you dress, ever.   But after recent events this past weekend - I can somewhat understand her hesitancy.   If you're like the douche this weekend, to play nice, I'd go without your kilt.  If you're not and you're truly doing it to honor your heritage and NOT because 'Hey look at me!' then I say wear it proudly. 

STUCK IN THE STUPID BOX ARGHHH: WTF?! What an incredibly prejudicial and small minded thing to say. I don't give a rat's ass what you witnesses at a St Patty's Day anything (also, the man's Scottish not Irish) you have zero right to stereotype in such a manner. I am jawdroppingly dumbfounded...

"Christians also attend church services,^[5][7] and the Lenten restrictions on eating and drinking alcohol are lifted for the day, which has encouraged and propagated the holiday's tradition of alcohol consumption" -wikipedia ... If you saw people drinking, then they were celebrating on the wrong day! 

LakeR2014 most of the people who wear kilts in true formal occasions and have respect for their heritage would be extremely offended by your questions.  I'm Scottish-Irish-American, though mostly American. My Scottish/Irish side has been here for generations and most don't wear kilts (and most of my family actually came from the lowlands of Scotland, not highlands), but I know some Scottish extended cousins (from the highlands) that would be offended. You are basically insinuating that he exposes himself in public. How inappropriate, tactless, and rude! I think if he did that, it would have nothing to do with the kilt, and most to do with a lack of ability to control his alcohol consumption. 

alphabridesmaid

jerkyanne said:
somhairle1314 said: I am invited to my fiancé's brother’s wedding where she is part of the wedding party and I am not. When I dress formal, I dress in a kilt, Jacket, vest, etc. (formal kilt attire). I, a guest, am being ordered not to wear a kilt. My first response was, "have fun, tell me what it's like." However my fiancé stated that my attendance was important to her. I am at a crossroads and don't know what to do. I feel like the Bride has crossed a line of etiquette in banning an article of clothing for a guest; I feel like I'm being told you can come, but you can't be yourself. I would understand if I were part of the wedding party I would need to match the rest of the party, but this is not the case; am I wrong? Angry Scotsman. ______________________
  Having just been witnessed to some kilt wearing for St. Patrick's Day festivities, I'll add my two cents here.

1) The bride is in the wrong and is not allowed to dictate her guests attire.
However (BIG however)...after this weekend, I have a few questions for you, OP:

1)  Do you regularly wear your kilt, to fancy events, to honor your heritage and not solely as a 'Hey look at me event?'  If so, bride is still wrong.   If not, bride is still wrong, but you lose some sympathy from me.

2)  Do you get actively inebriated while wearing said kilt and have an issue keeping the kilt on or refraining from showing your tidly-bits?  If not, bride is wrong.  If so, might make me question your preference for wearing it.
As I said before the bride has no right to dictate how you dress, ever.   But after recent events this past weekend - I can somewhat understand her hesitancy.   If you're like the douche this weekend, to play nice, I'd go without your kilt.  If you're not and you're truly doing it to honor your heritage and NOT because 'Hey look at me!' then I say wear it proudly. 
_______________________________
        STUCK IN THE STUPID BOX ARGHHH: WTF?! What an incredibly prejudicial and small minded thing to say. I don't give a rat's ass what you witnesses at a St Patty's Day anything (also, the man's Scottish not Irish) you have zero right to stereotype in such a manner. I am jawdroppingly dumbfounded...
_______________________________
I think it's a bit unfair to jump down her throat. I too have witnessed my fair share of "look at me I'm in a kilt" kilt-wearers. I don't know why, but there were some guys who went to school with me who thought they were so funny for wearing kilts to formal occasions. None of them had any connection to Scotland or reason to wear kilts other than to draw attention to themselves. (I asked-- they said "cause we think it's funny") It was a novelty to them and was really disrespectful because they flashed their junk and behaved inappropriately.

Now I doubt the OP is this kind of kilt-wearer because if it was just a joke to him, it wouldn't be a big deal to him like it is, but this is the internet and sometimes I can't help being a skeptic.

All that said, the bride still has no right to dictate what you wear and you should wear the kilt if it's important to you.

ETA: royally screwed up boxes

pinkshorts27

alphabridesmaid I have met those guys, yet that is not the assumption I would have of OP who asked politely what the etiquette was and indicated that he was Scottish and wore a kilt out of respect and awareness of his heritage. So comparing OP, who had a valid question as a Scotsman, to these guys who think it is funny to make a joke of people's heritage is not cool in my opinion.

(tagged you because there are some serious quote box issues going on).