Bigger house or better town?

doeydo

I'g go for the better town.  You can always renovate the house and/or put on an addition.

jenna8984

@huskypuppy14 I'm way out past Worcester. I'd like to be more in the Northboro/ Southboro/ Westboro area but they cost practically double. Wherever you are that's 45 min to Boston for that sq footage, is likely over my budget lol.

theartistformerlyknownas

LittlePeachBlossom said:

Unfortunately, other people's impressions of our towns has a real impact on what happens there in terms of future investments and improved quality of life. Love, the vehement defender of Detroit and its recovery potential who isn't naive enough to think it's a good place to raise children right now.

I agree. My issue was OP playing race cards instead of leaving it at poor school system and poverty levels.

I get that, but at the same time when people talk trash about Detroit (or Redford, or Oak Park, or whatever) it always comes down to "because black people." It's beyond horrible, but that IS the reason the haters give. Plenty of people with legitimate concerns about school systems or crime rates or public works are overpowered by people saying it's all black people's fault. (Don't believe me, read the comments on freep.com.) I don't think that acknowledging that's what people look down upon her town for - however faulty and baseless and wrong those assumptions are - is a racist statement in and of itself. Unnecessary sure, but I'm not gonna judge her that harshly for repeating the reasons she's heard for people's lack of faith in her town.

jenna8984

lolo883 said:

LittlePeachBlossom said:

Unfortunately, other people's impressions of our towns has a real impact on what happens there in terms of future investments and improved quality of life. Love, the vehement defender of Detroit and its recovery potential who isn't naive enough to think it's a good place to raise children right now.

I agree. My issue was OP playing race cards instead of leaving it at poor school system and poverty levels.

I get that, but at the same time when people talk trash about Detroit (or Redford, or Oak Park, or whatever) it always comes down to "because black people." It's beyond horrible, but that IS the reason the haters give. Plenty of people with legitimate concerns about school systems or crime rates or public works are overpowered by people saying it's all black people's fault. (Don't believe me, read the comments on freep.com.) I don't think that acknowledging that's what people look down upon her town for - however faulty and baseless and wrong those assumptions are - is a racist statement in and of itself. Unnecessary sure, but I'm not gonna judge her that harshly for repeating the reasons she's heard for people's lack of faith in her town.

Thank you. That was in my head but couldn't quite articulate it. I guess it was unnecessary information, I only mentioned it because I figured people would ask more questions about "Why is your town perceived as bad/ ghetto?" And that is unfortunately the reason for a lot of the stigma. You just get tired of your property values going down because of these ridiculous assumptions from the people who don't even live here. It is hard to imagine it ever taking that upswing. 

Sugargirl1019

lolo883 said:

LittlePeachBlossom said:

lolo883 said:

Unfortunately, other people's impressions of our towns has a real impact on what happens there in terms of future investments and improved quality of life. Love, the vehement defender of Detroit and its recovery potential who isn't naive enough to think it's a good place to raise children right now.

I agree. My issue was OP playing race cards instead of leaving it at poor school system and poverty levels.

I get that, but at the same time when people talk trash about Detroit (or Redford, or Oak Park, or whatever) it always comes down to "because black people." It's beyond horrible, but that IS the reason the haters give. Plenty of people with legitimate concerns about school systems or crime rates or public works are overpowered by people saying it's all black people's fault. (Don't believe me, read the comments on freep.com.) I don't think that acknowledging that's what people look down upon her town for - however faulty and baseless and wrong those assumptions are - is a racist statement in and of itself. Unnecessary sure, but I'm not gonna judge her that harshly for repeating the reasons she's heard for people's lack of faith in her town.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. OP I take no offense to your mention, either! I totally understand what you're saying.

echooooo. Location location location! Even if you don't have kids through school, the better school districts have better property values and will sell for higher when you DO decide to move. Always pick a place with the best schools!

Maybe you can actively focus on saving for a bigger down payment? This way you can buy a more "expensive" house but still have the same mortgage you can afford.

huskypuppy14

What about Holden? Not as expensive has towns closer to Boston, but good schools and close to where you are now (guessing?) 

NYCMercedes

jenna8984 said:

Yes we plan on kids soon and we plan on public schools. The private schools in my town are all Catholic and we are not Catholic. My brother is raising his kids here and his argument is always that people like myself went to this public school and are fairly successful. Others from my high school have gone to Harvard, and are doing well. Not everyone, but those with the aptitude.  That's the thing about New England- even a bad school district is better than half the country lol 

I don't even know what to post, given the racist comments and this. Smh.

CMGragain

Both my grown kids live in Columbia, MD, which is a very expensive suburb.  Columbia was built starting in the 1970s.  It has top schools.  Columbia is very proud of its multiracial, multi-ethnic population.  People get along there very well.
Don't assume that all racists are Caucasian.  I worked in the heart of Prince Georges County, MD for many years.  100% of my students were African-American.  I heard some very racist comments from more than a few parents. Some were quite ridiculous.  I was actually confronted by a parent who said, to my face, "I hate you white people!  You are all so stuck up!"
There are several neighborhoods that are all African American, and are very, very expensive.  Low crime, better schools, great amenities.  There are also neighborhoods with high crime, poor schools, run down yards, and they are predominantly Caucasian.
I think education has a lot to do with this.  My experience was that well educated people are not often racist.  It makes no sense to be racist these days.  The few white people that I met that expressed racism outright were from a poor, working class background (as I am), but who just weren't taught modern values.
My family won't need to worry.  My grandchildren will be bi-racial, anyway.

huskypuppy14

NYCMercedes said:

jenna8984 said:

Yes we plan on kids soon and we plan on public schools. The private schools in my town are all Catholic and we are not Catholic. My brother is raising his kids here and his argument is always that people like myself went to this public school and are fairly successful. Others from my high school have gone to Harvard, and are doing well. Not everyone, but those with the aptitude.  That's the thing about New England- even a bad school district is better than half the country lol 

I don't even know what to post, given the racist comments and this. Smh.

To be fair, Massachusetts is usually ranked at the top of the states with the best education.

STARMOON44

If you work in Boston or would like to in the future I think this is a no brainer. Where you are now is do far away. 1200 sounds great to me, plenty of room for a family.

Fran1985

lolo883 said:

LittlePeachBlossom said:

Unfortunately, other people's impressions of our towns has a real impact on what happens there in terms of future investments and improved quality of life. Love, the vehement defender of Detroit and its recovery potential who isn't naive enough to think it's a good place to raise children right now.

I agree. My issue was OP playing race cards instead of leaving it at poor school system and poverty levels.

I get that, but at the same time when people talk trash about Detroit (or Redford, or Oak Park, or whatever) it always comes down to "because black people." It's beyond horrible, but that IS the reason the haters give. Plenty of people with legitimate concerns about school systems or crime rates or public works are overpowered by people saying it's all black people's fault. (Don't believe me, read the comments on freep.com.) I don't think that acknowledging that's what people look down upon her town for - however faulty and baseless and wrong those assumptions are - is a racist statement in and of itself. Unnecessary sure, but I'm not gonna judge her that harshly for repeating the reasons she's heard for people's lack of faith in her town.

SITB- I guess I completely disagree. Repeating racist shit is still racist. My mouth dropped open reading jenna's post. Its one of the most racist things I've seen posted on the knot. Really disappointing to see people saying that its not racist to repeat racist stuff. Becaaaause I think it is. It takes literally just a second to differentiate between cause and coincidence. If people are using "minorities" as a short hand for "bad school system" BREAK THAT FUCKING CYCLE. Say what you really have a problem with (abandoned houses, bad schools, whatever it is). Dont be like oh other people say minorities are bad, I'll say that too. 

huskypuppy14

I think Jenna didn't word her post correctly. I understood what she was trying to say, even though it sounded bad. Most of the schools that are 8-10 school ranking in our area have a high percentage (80% +) of Caucasians. And the towns are also more wealthy.That's not racist, that's the truth.

However, there are schools that are more diverse and also have high rankings. 

There are also not so great schools  in areas that have a high percentage of white people as well. But these are in poorer towns.

Jenna, I think where your post sounded off was saying the reason the schools were bad was because there were a higher percentage of minorities. That's not the reason the schools are bad, but more so because the economics of the town, not their race.

amelisha

Generally, every time you say "I'm not _______, but -" that means you're about to say something _______. And I'm not referring solely to the OP. I'm new to TK but if this is really the attitudes that are okay here, I think this may not be the place for me.

OP, have you actually looked into test scores or gone to meet any of the teachers where you live now? Or is the "bad schools" thing also just what you're hearing from people spewing the "minorities" stuff?

jenna8984

amelisha said:

Generally, every time you say "I'm not _______, but -" that means you're about to say something _______. And I'm not referring solely to the OP. I'm new to TK but if this is really the attitudes that are okay here, I think this may not be the place for me.

OP, have you actually looked into test scores or gone to meet any of the teachers where you live now? Or is the "bad schools" thing also just what you're hearing from people spewing the "minorities" stuff?

Um yea. I grew up here. Even when I attended the high school 12 years ago it was on academic probation so it's a fact that it doesn't perform well. 

jenna8984

@huskypuppy14 Yea I would love Holden or West Boylston but they are still significantly more expensive than where I live now, so I just wasn't sure if it was worth it. But I guess it probably is. No, I don't plan to ever work in Boston, there are several jobs near the 90/495 intersection where I currently work. I'm over 30 minutes west of there so I'm trying to get a little closer. 

@sugargirl1019 Thanks! We already save as much as possible and with the sale of our house we'll have about 60k to put down, which out here is 20% on a small house. 

jenna8984

NYCMercedes said:

jenna8984 said:

Yes we plan on kids soon and we plan on public schools. The private schools in my town are all Catholic and we are not Catholic. My brother is raising his kids here and his argument is always that people like myself went to this public school and are fairly successful. Others from my high school have gone to Harvard, and are doing well. Not everyone, but those with the aptitude.  That's the thing about New England- even a bad school district is better than half the country lol 

I don't even know what to post, given the racist comments and this. Smh.

Whatever dude. I wasn't going to respond to this but look at the state rankings for public schools for the last ten years and you'll find MA in the top 5 every year. You'll find MS in the bottom 5 every year. So the worst schools here are still better than their top public schools it's just a fucking fact. Get over thinking every comment is fabricated racism. 

LDay2014

Okay, so...some of the comments aside (Seriously????) I'll share my experience.

I grew up in a upper middle class neighbourhood not understanding that people struggled.  We had a 2000 sq ft house with a decent yard on a quiet cul de sac with lots of neighbourhood kids.

FI and I (along with my two girls) now live in a far lower income town - there's a lot of social assistance, teenage pregnancy etc.  Our home is currently about 1100 sq ft with a huge property, with FI, myself, two kids, and a 1yr old rottweiler.  

We talked about moving to a different neighbourhood but we decided not too.  It's really important to us that we teach our kids about tolerance - that not everyone has the same opportunities that they do, some kids go to bed without a hot dinner, or don't have new clothes.  And that's OK.  It' doesn't make them any less of a person.  

My kids school is a new school (which is helpful) and the school is very involved with the community in helping families and working to make sure all the kids have the necessities.

My point being, that a bigger house isn't necessary - make kids go OUTSIDE and play.  Nor is a fancier town because there is so much opportunity for life lessons.

Think about your priorities and decide whats best for your family...

raissyrais

jenna8984 said:

lolo883 said:

LittlePeachBlossom said:

Unfortunately, other people's impressions of our towns has a real impact on what happens there in terms of future investments and improved quality of life. Love, the vehement defender of Detroit and its recovery potential who isn't naive enough to think it's a good place to raise children right now.

I agree. My issue was OP playing race cards instead of leaving it at poor school system and poverty levels.

I get that, but at the same time when people talk trash about Detroit (or Redford, or Oak Park, or whatever) it always comes down to "because black people." It's beyond horrible, but that IS the reason the haters give. Plenty of people with legitimate concerns about school systems or crime rates or public works are overpowered by people saying it's all black people's fault. (Don't believe me, read the comments on freep.com.) I don't think that acknowledging that's what people look down upon her town for - however faulty and baseless and wrong those assumptions are - is a racist statement in and of itself. Unnecessary sure, but I'm not gonna judge her that harshly for repeating the reasons she's heard for people's lack of faith in her town.

Thank you. That was in my head but couldn't quite articulate it. I guess it was unnecessary information, I only mentioned it because I figured people would ask more questions about "Why is your town perceived as bad/ ghetto?" And that is unfortunately the reason for a lot of the stigma. You just get tired of your property values going down because of these ridiculous assumptions from the people who don't even live here. It is hard to imagine it ever taking that upswing. 

I will jut add that it's the same here as well. People will talk about certain areas of London being "rough" or "insalubrious" and when they finally tell you why it's "because of the Black people" or it's "because of all these Indian and Pakistani immigrants". It's unfortunate. Here, to be politically correct, they will refer to a good area as "has good schools" and a bad area (really meaning too many immigrants etc) as "rough". I'm a mix of this and that and can be considered a minority and I do not take offence because I can understand where all these are coming from. @jenna8984 I would go with the better town.

ashley8918

jenna8984 said:

hellokellybean said:

Yeah I scratched my head at how minorities give the town a bad reputation.

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

You guys, she's not racist. She has "minority" friends!

LittlePeachBlossom

jenna8984 said:

NYCMercedes said:

jenna8984 said:

Yes we plan on kids soon and we plan on public schools. The private schools in my town are all Catholic and we are not Catholic. My brother is raising his kids here and his argument is always that people like myself went to this public school and are fairly successful. Others from my high school have gone to Harvard, and are doing well. Not everyone, but those with the aptitude.  That's the thing about New England- even a bad school district is better than half the country lol 

I don't even know what to post, given the racist comments and this. Smh.

Whatever dude. I wasn't going to respond to this but look at the state rankings for public schools for the last ten years and you'll find MA in the top 5 every year. You'll find MS in the bottom 5 every year. So the worst schools here are still better than their top public schools it's just a fucking fact. Get over thinking every comment is fabricated racism. 

No, not every comment. Yours do sound racist, though. You lead with your town having minorities and this causing its bad reputation. How else do you want us to interpret that? Then you follow up with the wealthy Caucasian towns comment as if this justifies it. How do you know these "lots of Puerto Ricans" are all Puerto Ricans? Would it be better or worse of it was lots of Dominicans or lots of Mexicans or lots of Ecuadorians instead? Or did you mean Latinos/Hispanics in general? You don't see how it's all coming across? Then, your most recent comment compares MA to MS. It may be a "fucking fact" but it seems to me that you attribute this to the racial makeup of these states. 

I'm not questioning the quality of education between cities or states. This wasn't your main reason for deciding between the two towns. I came on here to give advice I've always heard: It's better to buy the worst house on the best block than the best house on the worst block. The racist undertone in your comments made me change my reply.

"My town has a lot of minorities, which doesn't bother me but gives it a bad reputation. Whenever I meet someone and say the town they are like "ew, ghetto" and I don't really appreciate that. But it's also due to the terrible school ratings as well so they aren't really wrong. "

"Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. "

grumbledore

jenna8984 said:

We own a starter home in my hometown. Well we're looking to sell and get into our bigger family home in the next few months and we just can't decide. My town has a lot of minorities, which doesn't bother me but gives it a bad reputation. Whenever I meet someone and say the town they are like "ew, ghetto" and I don't really appreciate that. But it's also due to the terrible school ratings as well so they aren't really wrong. 

The nicer towns about 20-30 minutes away have good reputationsmore white people and much better school systems. They are also closer to city/ job markets. So it's obviously more desirable but the houses cost so much more. I grew up in a 2,000 sq ft home so it's really hard for me to imagine raising a family in a 1200 sq ft house (which is all I can afford in the nicer towns). <-- stupid expensive MA 

I know you guys can't make the decision, just wondering what you would do? DH and I keep going back and forth! We don't really have family or friends so that's not a factor in location. 

 

LittlePeachBlossom

CMGragain said:

Both my grown kids live in Columbia, MD, which is a very expensive suburb.  Columbia was built starting in the 1970s.  It has top schools.  Columbia is very proud of its multiracial, multi-ethnic population.  People get along there very well.
Don't assume that all racists are Caucasian.  I worked in the heart of Prince Georges County, MD for many years.  100% of my students were African-American.  I heard some very racist comments from more than a few parents. Some were quite ridiculous.  I was actually confronted by a parent who said, to my face, "I hate you white people!  You are all so stuck up!"
There are several neighborhoods that are all African American, and are very, very expensive.  Low crime, better schools, great amenities.  There are also neighborhoods with high crime, poor schools, run down yards, and they are predominantly Caucasian.
I think education has a lot to do with this.  My experience was that well educated people are not often racist.  It makes no sense to be racist these days.  The few white people that I met that expressed racism outright were from a poor, working class background (as I am), but who just weren't taught modern values.
My family won't need to worry.  My grandchildren will be bi-racial, anyway.

Don't think anyone implied racism was one-sided. Racism period is unacceptable. We, as individuals, have to break the cycle, as Fran1985 said. We're not helping anyone by tolerating it.

emmaaa

I definitely think it is important to move to an area that offers the best possible future for your potential children. Usually higher ranked education systems is a reflection on other factors in the area. Higher job potential, higher real estate market, better parks, and better programs for youth and adults.

I also think it is very fortunate that you live in MA with such an overall good school system. I live in NC and even at the best public schools, we're still ranked like 49th or 50th for education.

jenna8984

@littlepeachblossom I chose to compare MA to MS simply because MS is in the bottom 5 states for public schools. Not because of the percentage of black/whites/hispanics that live there, which I have no idea what their percentages even are. I simply chose that state because I know it's on the bottom of the list.

jenna8984

grumbledore said:

jenna8984 said:

hellokellybean said:

Yeah I scratched my head at how minorities give the town a bad reputation.

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

.  Please share this thread with your tons of Puerto Rican friends.

@lyndausvi This is ridiculous. I have been trying to defend myself against untrue accusations, and I wanted to respond in this manner but did not because it's against TOS.

abbyj700

So...yeah...

All I can say is that I'm proud to live in my neighborhood. Which is highly diverse. And our home is smaller than 2,000 sq ft.  Our five bedroom "starter home" as you put it - was home to two families before ours - and is more than enough room at 1,800 sq ft for a family. 

I just...for the life of me can't understand how someone could write the original post and not realize that it just may come off as rather screwed up and judgmental. OP - I'm sure you didn't mean to come off how you did - but perhaps you should try to educate yourself a little more on acceptance, tolerance and the positive affects of diversity in a population. 

ashley8918

jenna8984 said:

grumbledore said:

jenna8984 said:

hellokellybean said:

Yeah I scratched my head at how minorities give the town a bad reputation.

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

  Please share this thread with your tons of Puerto Rican friends.

@lyndausvi This is ridiculous. I have been trying to defend myself against untrue accusations, and I wanted to respond in this manner but did not because it's against TOS.

What were the untrue accusations? People were telling you that your statement about minorities in your OP made you sound ignorant as fuck (true). We also told you that repeating racist bullshit is not acceptable (true). 

arrippa

Go for the better school/towns. Here is the list <--clicky  with the best school districts in MA.

I was thinking about towns around MA with a not so good reputation like Lowell or Brockton. It's not the minorities that stand out for me but the crime. That has nothing to do with minorities. It has everything to do with school districts, unemployment rate and even town spending (not enough police).

[Deleted User]

There are a lot of people in this thread who need to explore white privilege and racial micro-aggressions.

LittlePeachBlossom

jenna8984 said:

@littlepeachblossom I chose to compare MA to MS simply because MS is in the bottom 5 states for public schools. Not because of the percentage of black/whites/hispanics that live there, which I have no idea what their percentages even are. I simply chose that state because I know it's on the bottom of the list.

Fair enough. Look, I don't know that you are for sure a racist. Maybe you just lack cultural awareness. Just know that you don't have to be spewing hateful comments to be one or be perceived as one.