Bigger house or better town?

iloveotters2014

ScoutF said:

iloveotters2014 said:

Kahlyla said:

For some reason I have a hard time believing that these people the OP meets are saying things like, "Ew, that place is so ghetto, it's full of Puerto Ricans!" They're not saying that shit, right? They may be thinking it, sure. But here on this board, essentially, OP is the one saying it. "My town has a lot of minorities. People say it's ghetto. It also has shitty schools, so I guess they're not really wrong."

If they're not mentioning the ethnic makeup of the town, why is it in OP's head? She literally says it's the minority population that gives it a bad reputation. It certainly seems to be informing her own perception of the town and her use of the word "also" suggests that she considers the minority population part of what makes the town "ghetto".

Now, I can see how all of this may reflect (mostly) poor wording choices. Perhaps these people from other towns are explicitly stating that the minorities are the problem, and OP just didn't precisely say as much. I can't imagine why one would choose to associate with such people or give any credence to their opinion, but that's me. But that's not what actually came across in these words, and I don't think people are wrong for reading them as they're written and responding to them. I'm really not trying to pile on here, and I didn't even really see it myself at first, but a couple of other posters have articulated it quite well and I think it's definitely worth talking about.

She absolutely worded things poorly....but do I think she is making up that people say "ew ghetto" when she mentions her town....hell no. People do that ALL the time.

I lived in Dearborn, Michigan for awhile after I graduated college. When people would ask me where I lived and I said dearborn a large number of people went "Ewwww. really?" or even (and I'm not even kidding) "Ewww ninja's!" - Dearborn, MI has the largest muslim population in the united states. Do I think those comments were ok?....No....did they happen....Yes. Did it influence my decision to not purchase a home there.....Yes, to an extent. am I racist for saying that....No.

Was her OP worded very poorly....Yes. Do I think you guys are WAY out of hand. Yes. Especially those who are putting words in her mouth.

The only words being "put into her mouth" are the ones that she directly typed. So, no. No one is putting any words into any mouths.

Wrong.....I've read every single post in this thread and she NEVER said this....Want me to find more?

Having trouble quoting. But its the opposite. If the OP didn't offend you then you have never had to deal with racist people, how lucky for you. Her OP and her comment about "sorry MA is 95 percent white so its not my fault I'm racist" was disgusting. My FI is from Central MA and lived there all his life. Luckily he isn't a racist piece of shit. Towns dont call people ghetto. People do.  So OP is just saying well some people say minorities are bad for my town. So I am also going to say minorities are bad for my town. Honestly if the OP didn't jump out as you as totally messed up you need to do some serious self reflection.

ashley8918

jenna8984 said:

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

@iloveotters2014

iloveotters2014

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

@iloveotters2014

In what world does that say this

"sorry MA is 95 percent white so its not my fault I'm racist"

oh right....it doesn't. WORDS IN MOUTH. Period.

holyguacamole79

ashley8918 said:

sarahbear31 said:

I think people are reading too much into what @jenna8984‌ is saying. She's not claiming that her safety is in jeopardy or that she doesn't want minorities for neighbors. She is (I assume) looking out for the resale value of the home. I don't think it was necessary to cite the minority makeup, however.

I mean, she specifically said, "People say my town is bad because of minorities". And then went on to say "Welp. The schools are bad, so I guess they are right". (And also, "But I have minorities as friends!" UM...) I don't feel like anyone was reading into anything that wasn't there. Ignorant racist comments are right there, plain as day.

ETF spelling

Hey, I agree 100% that the comment about minorities was absolutely irrelevant and I can appreciate why people find it offensive  I raised my eyebrows at it, myself.  What she did say is that there is a perception that the area is of a lower quality.  Whether that perception is accurate or not, it still affects the resale value of the house.  And, the quality of the schools is also a huge factor when considering property value.

ashley8918

iloveotters2014 said:

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

@iloveotters2014

In what world does that say this

"sorry MA is 95 percent white so its not my fault I'm racist"

oh right....it doesn't. WORDS IN MOUTH. Period.

False. OP made a racist comment about minorities lowering the value of her neighborhood. She then went on to post the above to justify her racist comment. 

iloveotters2014

ashley8918 said:

iloveotters2014 said:

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

@iloveotters2014

In what world does that say this

"sorry MA is 95 percent white so its not my fault I'm racist"

oh right....it doesn't. WORDS IN MOUTH. Period.

False. OP made a racist comment about minorities lowering the value of her neighborhood. She then went on to post the above to justify her racist comment. 

I'm stating a fact....and you are stating an implication. Words are being twisted around and put in quotations when she did not in fact say those things. You can think whatever you want but what was quoted above was NEVER said.

esstee33

iloveotters2014 said:

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

@iloveotters2014

In what world does that say this

"sorry MA is 95 percent white so its not my fault I'm racist"

oh right....it doesn't. WORDS IN MOUTH. Period.

Even if it's not a verbatim quote, it's a pretty clear justification that her internalized casual racism is OK because of where she lives. 

ETF: word choice

ashley8918

sarahbear31 said:

ashley8918 said:

sarahbear31 said:

I think people are reading too much into what @jenna8984‌ is saying. She's not claiming that her safety is in jeopardy or that she doesn't want minorities for neighbors. She is (I assume) looking out for the resale value of the home. I don't think it was necessary to cite the minority makeup, however.

I mean, she specifically said, "People say my town is bad because of minorities". And then went on to say "Welp. The schools are bad, so I guess they are right". (And also, "But I have minorities as friends!" UM...) I don't feel like anyone was reading into anything that wasn't there. Ignorant racist comments are right there, plain as day.

ETF spelling

Hey, I agree 100% that the comment about minorities was absolutely irrelevant and I can appreciate why people find it offensive  I raised my eyebrows at it, myself.  What she did say is that there is a perception that the area is of a lower quality.  Whether that perception is accurate or not, it still affects the resale value of the house.  And, the quality of the schools is also a huge factor when considering property value.

Right, but the quality of schools is what actually makes the neighborhood undesirable, NOT the"minorities". 

I take great offense, not only to the unnecessary mention of minorities in the OP, but more so, to the repeated attempts to justify that ignorant comment with things like, "Well sorry (not sorry), New England is 95% white, sooo...." and "But I have Puerto Rican Friends!", when a simple, "I shouldn't have said it that way. What I actually meant was..." would have been a much better response.

ashley8918

esstee33 said:

iloveotters2014 said:

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

@iloveotters2014

In what world does that say this

"sorry MA is 95 percent white so its not my fault I'm racist"

oh right....it doesn't. WORDS IN MOUTH. Period.

Even if it's not a verbatim quote, it's a pretty clear justification that her internalized racism is OK because of where she lives. 

This.

iloveotters2014

esstee33 said:

iloveotters2014 said:

ashley8918 said:

jenna8984 said:

Sorry, but this is New England. Lots of wealthy, 95% Caucasian towns. They heavily look down upon the towns like mine that have a lot of Puerto Ricans. Tons of my friends from high school are Puerto Rican, and I love them. I was just saying these other towns call mine ghetto, it's sad but true. 

@iloveotters2014

In what world does that say this

"sorry MA is 95 percent white so its not my fault I'm racist"

oh right....it doesn't. WORDS IN MOUTH. Period.

Even if it's not a verbatim quote, it's a pretty clear justification that her internalized racism is OK because of where she lives. 

Actually if I were to make a one sentence "quote" of that. I would say

"Sorry MA is 95 percent white, it's not my fault that everyone thinks where I live is ghetto."

See the difference between personal perception and actual words......they can be interpreted differently by others.

Do you guys seriously not get that? or are you getting it that twisted?

theartistformerlyknownas

I also read her statement as "My town has a lot of minorities. People say it's ghetto. It also has shitty schools, so I guess they're not really wrong that it's a bad neighborhood to buy a home in." Meaning regardless of people's opinions on the demographic makeup of the inhabitants, the schools are bad anyway and that's indisputable so that makes the town bad.

Compare this to everyone's assumption of "My town has a lot of minorities. People say it's ghetto. It also has shitty schools, so I guess they're not really wrong that Puerto Ricans are shitty."

Terribly worded, yes. Irrelevant to even mention the racist opinions when all she needed to say was "the schools are bad," probably. (Although I think it's a lot easier to bring up a school's test scores than it is to make people less racist.) Is this all as bad as everyone's making it out to be, no I don't think so. Not based on what was ACTUALLY SAID.

holyguacamole79

ashley8918 said:

sarahbear31 said:

ashley8918 said:

sarahbear31 said:

I think people are reading too much into what @jenna8984‌ is saying. She's not claiming that her safety is in jeopardy or that she doesn't want minorities for neighbors. She is (I assume) looking out for the resale value of the home. I don't think it was necessary to cite the minority makeup, however.

I mean, she specifically said, "People say my town is bad because of minorities". And then went on to say "Welp. The schools are bad, so I guess they are right". (And also, "But I have minorities as friends!" UM...) I don't feel like anyone was reading into anything that wasn't there. Ignorant racist comments are right there, plain as day.

ETF spelling

Hey, I agree 100% that the comment about minorities was absolutely irrelevant and I can appreciate why people find it offensive  I raised my eyebrows at it, myself.  What she did say is that there is a perception that the area is of a lower quality.  Whether that perception is accurate or not, it still affects the resale value of the house.  And, the quality of the schools is also a huge factor when considering property value.

Right, but the quality of schools is what actually makes the neighborhood undesirable, NOT the"minorities". 

I take great offense, not only to the unnecessary mention of minorities in the OP, but more so, to the repeated attempts to justify that ignorant comment with things like, "Well sorry (not sorry), New England is 95% white, sooo...." and "But I have Puerto Rican Friends!", when a simple, "I shouldn't have said it that way. What I actually meant was..." would have been a much better response.

I personally don't know the area, so I don't know what may or may not make it desirable.  It could be the schools, it could be near a nuclear waste facility, or it could be any other factors.  Sadly, the ethnic and / or economic background of the residents can also drive the property value of the area.  It's a sad reality of our country, and I wish it wasn't the case.  I would NEVER attribute a neighborhood's value to the ethnicity of the residents, though.  I think Jenna could have worded this MUCH differently. 

When I was house-hunting 9 years ago, I went by the "location, location, location" motto.  My choices had nothing to do with the ethnic make-up of the area, but with the overall value of the property. 

hellosweetie1015

For some reason, this thread has been bothering me all day. I have wanted to respond, but I'm actually afraid that I'll be raked over the coals for it.

I'm going to go ahead and respond to the OP's original question: Better schools. Definitely. Especially if this is intended to be your forever home. Unless you have 4+ kids, a small house won't hurt them. Poor schools will.

Now, the part that has been bothering me.

OP said, essentially, that her town had a poor reputation due to a PERCEPTION regarding its minority population. That was extremely poor word choice. However, I live near (and work in) a town that has the same PERCEPTION problem. 

My town is plagued with poverty, poor schools, high crime, and very few opportunities. Our public school, according to City Data, is an 8 out of 100. My mother attended this school in the 70s, and it was faring well. There were certainly other schools that had better reputations, but it was far from the worst school in the area. When we returned to the area in 1997, the school was in a sharp, ongoing decline. It is now PERCEIVED a "cesspool".

As a result (or perhaps as part of the cause, I'm not sure which) of the decline in school quality, parents who could afford to, sent their children elsewhere, either by moving out of district or sending them to the elitist private schools (full disclosure: I attended one of the most elitist ones for my jr/sr years, albeit under scholarship and a very kind benefactor). That leaves behind the students whose parents cannot afford to move out of district or send them to private schools. Thus, those children who are left behind are automatically disadvantaged, as the parents who can afford to leave, took their tax dollars to their new district and left less money for the city school district. 

This exodus also dropped the per capita income, quite sharply - the median income now is something around $20,000 despite several very high-income households. It also raised the crime rate - crime rates are percentages of the whole, so if that whole drops, the percentage rises even if the actual crimes committed doesn't. Businesses hesitated to remain as many of their customers moved away, so opportunities faded, which could theoretically increase the crime rate even more as people turn to more and more desperate ways to come up with money for their families. 

As businesses left, the crime rate grew, and homes were placed on the market, property values dropped significantly. Lower-SES people were moving into them, which changed the PERCEPTION of the neighborhood, causing further exodus of the wealthier people (not saying it's right, but it's definitely what happened), further dropping home values.

Now, the higher-SES members of my generation are not coming back, leaving the lower-SES people behind to deal with this huge mess. We aren't trying to invest in this town. Some of the older generation are, but they are trying to restore it to its heyday. This town's heyday is long gone, and frankly, good riddance. But if its younger generation would invest time and money in the area, it could be awesome. Look at how Opelika has turned around - it had the same stigmas when I moved there 8 years ago. Now it's got a lot of great restaurants and my current favorite coffee shop in the world. But that didn't happen because older folks wanted to bring it back; it happened because younger people wanted to move it forward and were able to see PAST THE PERCEPTIONS.

I think that's Jenna's biggest thing - she's heard these perceptions all her life, and it's something she has, at the very least, not given much thought to it. I think maybe putting thought into the reasons behind the stigma and perceptions might be a good idea for her.

Hopefully she'll try doing that now, after being completely reamed out over it.

emcme22

I grew up in a town next to Worcester and now live a few towns over in a slightly more expensive area. We were kind of forced to live in this area because of custody stuff since BF's ex lives with her parents in Northborough. Even though I wish we could live in a cheaper area now I would definitely pick a more expensive area with better schools once we were going to have kids in school. I definitely understand the cost of houses in that area can suck though. No idea where u live currently but I also think closer to work is preferable.