Situation with friend/ wedding photographer

jenna8984

I hired one of my very best friends to be my wedding photographer. She does do it professionally and I love her work. The wedding was 3 months ago and the pictures aren't ready yet and I'm starting to get anxiety about it. So here's the full scoop- since we are best friends for 8 years, not just casual friends, we didn't do a contract or anything legal. She had done our mutual friend's wedding so before I hired her, I asked C how it went and if she would recommend her. C said "Yes, I haven't gotten my pictures yet but she was great to work with and I'd do it again". A few weeks later I asked her if I could see her pictures yet and she said she still didn't have them. I got worried and asked if this was a big concern of C and if I should not consider hiring her. C said "No-the opposite! Since we are great friends, she is taking extra time to edit them all very carefully. She's doing much more to the pictures than she does for a normal client". So that eased my feelings and made me feel really good about it and went ahead with hiring her.

I paid for P (photographer) plane ticket here across the country and paid her $500 cash even though she told me I didn't need to pay her. I thought it would be a nice gesture to show her how much I appreciated her because she had complained to me that C didn't pay her and with travel and lost wages at her nursing job she actually spent money to do C's wedding and she just felt unappreciated for doing it. I didn't want her to feel that way with me.

C finally got hers back at the 5 month mark. I'm at 3 months right now and I guess to be perfectly honest, I expected them to be done quicker than C's since I paid her and C didn't. I would like to ask when they will be finished, or I'd like to express to her that I really don't care how edited they are, that I just want them. But I don't know how to say it to her since she is a friend. How would you word it?

Please- I KNOW that we should have had a contract or I should have not hired a friend. I should have just gotten a normal vendor and paid the full price and I feel like a dumb dumb for not doing that. But that ship has sailed so if you could not tell me what a mistake that was I'd appreciate it since I am feeling the regret.

blabla89

If I read correctly - your photographer also works as a nurse, right? Does she work full time at that job? I guess I could understand why it would take longer for her to finish editing than for a full time photographer.

Maybe you could tell her that you would love to have them to show your family at the holidays, and it's okay if they aren't completely edited. I think that's perfectly reasonable to ask for.

charlottesmom0626

I don't think the money should have anything to do with it. She offered to do your photos as a gift, just like your friend C's.

If it took C's pictures 5 months, I would expect the same for yours, regardless of the money you gave her. It's not like you said "Hey I'll pay you $500 so you can take the week off of work to edit my pictures and get them back ASAP".

Alternitively you can just straight up say "Thank you so much for taking those photos! I don't mean to rush you, but when do you expect they'll be finished?"

novella1186

blabla89 said:

If I read correctly - your photographer also works as a nurse, right? Does she work full time at that job? I guess I could understand why it would take longer for her to finish editing than for a full time photographer.

Maybe you could tell her that you would love to have them to show your family at the holidays, and it's okay if they aren't completely edited. I think that's perfectly reasonable to ask for.

This. I think it's totally fine to ask for your photos since it's been 3 months. You don't have to be rude about it (which I doubt you would be), and I'm sure she'll understand that you're just anxious to see your wedding photos. 

jenna8984

novella1186 said:

blabla89 said:

If I read correctly - your photographer also works as a nurse, right? Does she work full time at that job? I guess I could understand why it would take longer for her to finish editing than for a full time photographer.

Maybe you could tell her that you would love to have them to show your family at the holidays, and it's okay if they aren't completely edited. I think that's perfectly reasonable to ask for.

This. I think it's totally fine to ask for your photos since it's been 3 months. You don't have to be rude about it (which I doubt you would be), and I'm sure she'll understand that you're just anxious to see your wedding photos. 

Yes, she works about 30 hours in 3/10's at the hospital and her days off are watching her 3 toddlers. So I definitely understand that she has a lot going on and I didn't expect a week turn around. I think that's a great idea to use the holidays to show family a way to ask for them! Thank you!!

thisismynickname2

jenna8984  I can commiserate, in a way. I have a contract that says my photos were supposed to be done in 60 days.  I have one e-mail from her that says they'd be done by November 16th. She's been MIA ever since. We're at 86 days. 

Like your photog, mine has other commitments, which I can tell because she's active on social media. I feel like a total stalker, but she's not calling me back. I get that editing takes awhile, but fucking communicate!

It's gotten to the point where I've consulted friends at work who are attorneys (they can't help me as they're not independent practitioners) but one is having her attorney friend call me so I can get a threatening letter sent. They all say a threatening letter can work wonders to get your work done. 

This is your friend. Most professional photographers promise, in contracts, 60-90 days (and many posters here have gotten theirs back in 4-6 weeks).  I would let her know that you appreciate the friendship and that she has another job, but you hired her to do a professional job and have expectations that you'll be treated like a professional client. Let her know that you expect them with x amount of time or you'll want some money back because she's not acting like a professional. Word that as kindly as you can. Put your foot down. I'm sorry you're going through this. 

theartistformerlyknownas

If it makes you feel better, I don't have my pics yet either. I have the online proofing gallery, but she hasn't sent the DVD with the files yet. She said she'd email me a tracking number when she sent it and I haven't gotten that yet either. I emailed asking her if she could just send the one file I want to use on my Christmas cards... no response.

She's an awesome photographer but SUCKS at communication.

Anyway, I like the "hoping to show these off at Christmas" reasoning.

jenna8984

Sorry that you are both in the same boat, but at least you can send threatening letters and stuff since it's a stranger. I trust my friend and I know she wouldn't screw me on purpose, but she has had issues in the past with hard drive crashes and losing people's pictures so I'm just super freaked out about that happening. C said don't worry- since that happened to her she backs up everything 3 times but it still makes me so nervous. I'd love to just have the damn disc even unedited in case that happened to her again.

RebeccaFlower

Lurkers, write down guidelines even with a friend!! 

OP, I think you can definitely ask nicely. 

jenna8984

So I texted her and asked if I could get a disc or stick with the pictures. I said they don't have to be edited but I was really hoping to print some as Christmas gifts for family.

She responded that she will email a few of the family photos. I'm like wtf. Then she says that they aren't in a format I can use...she shoots in "raw" so each photo needs to be converted to jpeg before I will be able to open/ use it. Is it just me, or is that fucking crazy?! Like is that normal for photgraphers to do? @photokitty

If you know you're going to shoot 1,000 photos at a wedding, why would you not shoot it in a normal format that can just be instantly downloaded, like my average digital camera? Why would you shoot in a format that you need to manually convert 1,000 photos? Looks like I will be waiting a whole lot longer for the rest, this sucks.

flyingfoxes

I'm kind of afraid I'm going to be in a similar situation - one of my elementary school classmates is a photographer and he offered me a really good deal on the wedding photography and engagement session.  He took his sweet time getting us the 10 edited engagement photos, so I know it's gonna be a long wait for the wedding photos when that time comes.  We do have a contract, but I'll have to double-check the fine print for when we can expect the pictures.  FI actually hinted that we nudge him a couple of months before the wedding to make sure he doesn't schedule something else (he scheduled surgery a few days before our e-session on his knee and didn't tell us that he possibly might not be able to walk around to shoot them - he only mentioned it whenever I asked about confirming what time we should meet up).  It's frustrating!

I hope your girl gets you some of your pictures soon!

SmileDamnit

jenna8984 said:

So I texted her and asked if I could get a disc or stick with the pictures. I said they don't have to be edited but I was really hoping to print some as Christmas gifts for family.

She responded that she will email a few of the family photos. I'm like wtf. Then she says that they aren't in a format I can use...she shoots in "raw" so each photo needs to be converted to jpeg before I will be able to open/ use it. Is it just me, or is that fucking crazy?! Like is that normal for photgraphers to do? @photokitty

If you know you're going to shoot 1,000 photos at a wedding, why would you not shoot it in a normal format that can just be instantly downloaded, like my average digital camera? Why would you shoot in a format that you need to manually convert 1,000 photos? Looks like I will be waiting a whole lot longer for the rest, this sucks.

Afraid so. I'm only a hobby photographer & shoot raw for both personal shots and when doing family shoots . FWIW, it's not hard to convert raw files into jpegs or tiffs in photoshop or lightroom, however. 

novella1186

jenna8984 said:

So I texted her and asked if I could get a disc or stick with the pictures. I said they don't have to be edited but I was really hoping to print some as Christmas gifts for family.

She responded that she will email a few of the family photos. I'm like wtf. Then she says that they aren't in a format I can use...she shoots in "raw" so each photo needs to be converted to jpeg before I will be able to open/ use it. Is it just me, or is that fucking crazy?! Like is that normal for photgraphers to do? @photokitty

If you know you're going to shoot 1,000 photos at a wedding, why would you not shoot it in a normal format that can just be instantly downloaded, like my average digital camera? Why would you shoot in a format that you need to manually convert 1,000 photos? Looks like I will be waiting a whole lot longer for the rest, this sucks.

My sister is a pro photographer and she normally shoots in raw. She did our engagement photos and took 6 months to send them to me (Because she's an asshole, not because it takes that long to edit or convert). She gave me the same BS excuse, that she shot in raw so the image size wasn't transferable and blah blah blah and she had to reformat before she could send. 

Well, too bad for her my FI works in digital marketing and web design. He knows for a fact that there's a tool in photoshop that -- you click a button-- and all the photos automatically convert in a matter of seconds. He told this to my sister, and she sent all the photos 10 minutes later. But by then we had already waited for 6 months so it wasn't really a win for us. 

Sounds like this chick is feeding you a bunch of bs and giving you some really lame excuses. Because the things she's telling you can be fixed in seconds. 

jenna8984

@novella1186 oh WT!! now I'm super pissed because she made it sound like she had to convert each file individually. But I can't exactly say "you're lying, you can do it in ten seconds". grrrrrrrrr

novella1186

jenna8984 said:

@novella1186 oh WT!! now I'm super pissed because she made it sound like she had to convert each file individually. But I can't exactly say "you're lying, you can do it in ten seconds". grrrrrrrrr

SIB

Yeah my sister tried to do the exact same thing cuz she knows I don't know much about photography. But FI's bullshit meter immediately went off and he was like "Wait a minute. She's totally lying. Every photographer knows you can automatically convert!" 

I would say keep putting pressure on her to get them done. Say you were hoping to make a couple albums out of them to give as Christmas gifts because you were sure they'd be done by now since it's been so long. 

jenna8984

I said "Does it let you select them all and convert at once? Sorry, I'm just anxious to see them all and that's what Google says".

Half hour ago- no response.  

novella1186

jenna8984 said:

I said "Does it let you select them all and convert at once? Sorry, I'm just anxious to see them all and that's what Google says".

Half hour ago- no response.  

lol. Busted. IF she tries to say no, play innocent. Be like "Yeah, this photoshop tutorial says you can automatically convert all of them at once. Want me to send it to you?" Or we can have my FI call her  

PrettyGirlLost

blabla89 said:

If I read correctly - your photographer also works as a nurse, right? Does she work full time at that job? I guess I could understand why it would take longer for her to finish editing than for a full time photographer.

Maybe you could tell her that you would love to have them to show your family at the holidays, and it's okay if they aren't completely edited. I think that's perfectly reasonable to ask for.

Yeah but you can't expect her to provide them by Christmas. You didn't have any agreement in place that specified a deadline, and she has a full time job.

PrettyGirlLost

novella1186 said:

jenna8984 said:

I said "Does it let you select them all and convert at once? Sorry, I'm just anxious to see them all and that's what Google says".

Half hour ago- no response.  

lol. Busted. IF she tries to say no, play innocent. Be like "Yeah, this photoshop tutorial says you can automatically convert all of them at once. Want me to send it to you?" Or we can have my FI call her  

Time out OP.  Stop before you send an email off out of ignorance that will look really disrespectful to your friend.

Yes, there's a tool in Photoshop to batch convert images, but it takes time to do that for 1000+ images.  It's not instantaneous.  And depending on what her computer specs are, she might not be able to do this conversion for all 1000+ all in one batch.  So she is not BSing you.

The bottom line, whether you want to hear it or not, is that you didn't have a contract drawn up with her that specifies a deadline, and so you can't legitimately try to hold her to an arbitrary deadline now.  No matter how excited you are to get your photos.

I also don't have my photos back yet either, you can see my wedding date in my signature.  I'm not 100% sure what my contract specifies, I'm sure it's like 60 or 90 days, but I don't really care.  They took the pictures, they will give them to me when they are ready. . . they will not disappear.

Sorry, but I think you just need to be patient.

lc07

A lot of pros shoot in RAW because it gives more latitude in what can be adjusted in the images. 

Would you really be happy with unedited pictures? If I didn't know how to edit them myself, I'd want them to be adjusted by a professional. Have you asked her when she plans to have them ready for you?

novella1186

PrettyGirlLost said:

novella1186 said:

jenna8984 said:

I said "Does it let you select them all and convert at once? Sorry, I'm just anxious to see them all and that's what Google says".

Half hour ago- no response.  

lol. Busted. IF she tries to say no, play innocent. Be like "Yeah, this photoshop tutorial says you can automatically convert all of them at once. Want me to send it to you?" Or we can have my FI call her  

Time out OP.  Stop before you send an email off out of ignorance that will look really disrespectful to your friend.

Yes, there's a tool in Photoshop to batch convert images, but it takes time to do that for 1000+ images.  It's not instantaneous.  And depending on what her computer specs are, she might not be able to do this conversion for all 1000+ all in one batch.  So she is not BSing you.

The bottom line, whether you want to hear it or not, is that you didn't have a contract drawn up with her that specifies a deadline, and so you can't legitimately try to hold her to an arbitrary deadline now.  No matter how excited you are to get your photos.

I also don't have my photos back yet either, you can see my wedding date in my signature.  I'm not 100% sure what my contract specifies, I'm sure it's like 60 or 90 days, but I don't really care.  They took the pictures, they will give them to me when they are ready. . . they will not disappear.

Sorry, but I think you just need to be patient.

yeah, this is the way more sane approach. I feel your frustration OP, but you may just have to wait this one out

jenna8984

Yea....so tonight was a whole lot of drama. She had taken some pictures for another friend's baby while she was here for my wedding. That friend asked for theirs and was told they were lost in a hard drive crash. So I instantly FREAKED out and started bawling my face off and was sick to my stomach. Thought I was going to pass out. I called her, and she didn't answer. I texted her saying that I wasn't trying to rush her or be a pain but I heard about A's photos and I was sick to my stomach about whether mine were lost or not. 

I was trying to explain that I wasn't trying to be a bitch but I was just very worried and emotional about the pictures and I needed an answer to be able to sleep tonight. 

She called me and assured me that mine were not lost. We chatted for an hour as she emailed me about 20 photos. So I still don't know when I will get all of them but at least I know they are safe and I got a few tonight to use for Christmas. 

beethery

SmileDamnit said:

jenna8984 said:

So I texted her and asked if I could get a disc or stick with the pictures. I said they don't have to be edited but I was really hoping to print some as Christmas gifts for family.

She responded that she will email a few of the family photos. I'm like wtf. Then she says that they aren't in a format I can use...she shoots in "raw" so each photo needs to be converted to jpeg before I will be able to open/ use it. Is it just me, or is that fucking crazy?! Like is that normal for photgraphers to do? @photokitty

If you know you're going to shoot 1,000 photos at a wedding, why would you not shoot it in a normal format that can just be instantly downloaded, like my average digital camera? Why would you shoot in a format that you need to manually convert 1,000 photos? Looks like I will be waiting a whole lot longer for the rest, this sucks.

Afraid so. I'm only a hobby photographer & shoot raw for both personal shots and when doing family shoots . FWIW, it's not hard to convert raw files into jpegs or tiffs in photoshop or lightroom, however. 

It's super easy to set up a batch process to convert the files. She could set it up and leave for work, and it would probably be at least partway done by the time she got home, depending on how mny images she has and how fast her computer is.

FiancB

I'm going through the same thing with the people that did our video. I understand it's a huge task that's easy to put off due to its sheer overwhelming nature but it's like- you already put in this much work taking the video, might as well finish. 

Any photographer worth their salt generally shoots RAW. However, it doesn't take any time to convert to JPEG. My workflow generally involves doing basic edits in Lightroom as RAW, opening it in Photoshop to finish up, then saving it as a JPEG. It doesn't take any extra work to convert the file. 

steph861

Keep in mind that a photographer may not want to distribute unedited photos because it may give people (who don't know that the bride asked for unedited photos) the impression that the photographer is bad at their job. Good reviews and referrals are worth a lot.

novella1186

steph861 said:

Keep in mind that a photographer may not want to distribute unedited photos because it may give people (who don't know that the bride asked for unedited photos) the impression that the photographer is bad at their job. Good reviews and referrals are worth a lot.

This is true too. My sister refused to give me my photos because they weren't edited yet, and she said "I know you're gonna put some on facebook and I can't have people thinking I did a shitty job." The photos are what speak to the photog's abilities and reputation. So if she doesn't want to hand over unedited ones, I think that's reasonable. 

But I also think she should be working to get them done ASAP! 

photokitty

Sorry Ive been MIA.

So as you know, she is correct that most people can't view RAW images, bc most people don't have the software needed to view them. You shoot in RAW bc it allows you more option in post production. I shoot RAW & JPEG at the same time, but I don't do wedding. 

 Most wedding photogs don't do this bc it takes longer to write both version, aka fewer photos per second, and it takes up more space not he card. RAW images are huge. So they be swapping more cards and have twice the images to backup and store. 

When you shoot RAW you typically just give the edited JPEGs to your client, rarely can you get the RAW images - I had to go through a big ordeal with my photog bc I wanted them bc he had a lighting equipment failure during the group shots (it happens) and I wanted to edit the the eyeballs as I saw fit (blinking in the images). 

 Most people are surprised to learn that a quality photog is probably really only giving you, at best, 75% of all the images they shot. It's not uncommon for it to be closer to 50%. That's why they give you a number range per hour. It's also why you probably will be able to think of at least one photo that you though they had taken but it's not in your proofs - they took it, it just didn't turn out.

She probably used the format (RAW) excuse bc she isn't done editing and she doesn't want to provide you with the unedited images - like Novella said, it's a reputation and quality issue. She knows she can convert them and give them to you, but she doesn't want to give them to you until she is done.

I know you know this, and I'm sorry to point it out again, but for the sake of lurkers - do not hire a friend or family member as your photog or videographer. I will NEVER shoot a wedding as a primary photog for a friend or family member, but I have on many occasion gone as a guest, shoot the day bc I wanted to and given the images to the B&G as a second present. I have been told I saved the day bc the hired pro's images were terrible. I love to be the hero to my nearest and dearest, but I never want to be a vendor with them in what can often be an awkward situation.

Just be polite and patient, that's all you can do, bc in the end she has want you want and you don't have a contract. GL!! I hope they are totally worth the wait