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Psycho Kids

larrygagalarrygaga member
First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
edited February 2015 in Chit Chat
FI's nephews are CRAZY. Two boys, I think 3 and 5,  and they aren't just badly behaved, they are freakin' scary. They love to bite and hit you as hard as possible with whatever is in their hands. They will throw gum aiming for your hair and kick the dog and do all sorts of shitty things like that. Their home life is a little rough, but not horrible. Their parents don't believe in spanking, which I used to think would fix the problems but now I think some heavy medication is the only thing left for these kids. 

A few years ago, everyone was so excited about these boys. I loved to watch them and see them and they were kind of misbehaved but I always chocked it up to being boys and close in age. They kinda feed off each other. Things have escalated to the point where I can't stand these kids. I try really hard to like them but I can't stand even playing with them for more than a few minutes. I won't babysit them, and I haven't for like 3 years. Not even for 15 minutes. Everyone in FI's family feels the same way except the grandparents and ONE aunt who puts up with it. The parents want you to just tell them off and put them in a time out. When you ask them not to do something, they will always stare at you while continuing to do it. They finally started spanking, and that doesn't work. Recently the parents/grandparents read this article about if your kid is biting you bite them back to show them that it hurts. They have been doing that and it doesn't work, but it is a little bit funny to see.

They have both been kicked out of several schools for biting or hitting or kicking. The parents don't understand how anyone could hate their precious little angel babies. Ugh.

These kids have made me question wanting to be a parent, because how can I hate a toddler so much? But anytime I try to give them a fruit, or like play with them there is a 80% chance they will actually try to hurt me. I don't need more bite marks, thanks. I like other kids, just not these specific ones. They suck all the joy out of being with them to the point where I would probably be happy not ever seeing them again. Like if they moved across the country, I wouldn't shed a tear. 

FI and I and another of his sisters who is currently pregnant were talking about it, and we all feel bad for just not liking these kids. We don't feel like we are being evil or extreme, we feel bad because it's really not the boys fault. The parents have been told by a few teachers and doctors that the kids are far behind in development and need some extra help and structure.The 5 year old barely knows how to speak. OH NO these kids can't be anything less than perfect, they don't need any help ever! UGHGUGHGUGHGH

I just needed to vent. You know when they talk about someone who shot up a school or became a serial rapist? And they interview a distant aunt or grandmother? The relative always says something like "I knew something was off about them." Yeah, that's how I feel. I feel like these kids are going to grow up and murder 6 people for the pure joy of it. It scares me and I don't know how to help. I try to just keep loving them no matter what, but it's hard to fake love. Love comes so easy for me, and I never have trouble liking people. I rarely dislike anyone, much less hate someone who is still a child. Maybe hate is strong, but I just spent the weekend with them and I have a bruise and 2 bite marks and no discipline in sight. They found out there is a baby growing in the aunt's stomach, so they try really hard to hit her stomach. The only time I have to see these kids are at family functions, so hopefully I get a several month break.

:(

I'm a bad person, oh well. I think I'll still be a good mom someday. Sorry for the grammar/spelling, I'm pretty upset and tired.
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Re: Psycho Kids

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    STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    edited February 2015
    Deleted. Upon reflection this is leaving me speechless.
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    I'm sorry Lar. It's always hard to see things like that happen, especially outside your control. I hope they can figure out some better methods.

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    larrygagalarrygaga member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited February 2015

    Deleted. Upon reflection this is leaving me speechless.

    Well I tried to love them but I can't force myself to love everyone right? Even a kid? I feel horrible

    I used to be convinced that they could be fine and normal if they just got spanked. Clearly time outs weren't working. Now I really don't think better parenting can fix it.
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    I don't think hitting or biting children is better parenting but that's neither here nor there. I hope they can get the help they need and that your family finds a way forward. Of course you needn't force yourself to love them but they are just little ones after all. It's not their fault. Hopefully the school will be able to help. Sending my best wishes to all of you.
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    Sounds like they need to seek out a mental health provider or a center/hospital that can assist them. The children may have emotional disorders- their oppositional defiance and behavior are strong indicators of this IMO. I think the best you can do is read up on strategies for working with kids with behavioral challenges. Strict guidelines and consistent consequences are strategies that I have found helpful.
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    Uh. Damn. None of that is healthy. 

    You said the home life was a little rough.......Is it possible that it's rougher then you think? In theory the little shits are learning it from somewhere. 

    Personally, I'd be burning bridges. I don't see how the kids are going to get help if everyone keeps tip toeing around it, and you have to take care of yourself and your future family. 
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    I don't think you're a bad person for feeling the way you do. I love my nieces to death but they are SO spoiled and sometimes it makes me really not want to be around them.

    I am pretty shocked and saddened to read that schools are kicking them out for their behavior though. I represent kids with disabilities in obtaining educational services and if these are public schools they are breaking the law big time. They have an obligation to evaluate the kids and find out if they have a mental health problem/disability that is causing the behavior. If so, they need to provide services to help the kids, not punish them for it. 

    It's impossible to diagnose a kid over the internet obviously, but it does sound like they could possibly have some underlying mental health issues or emotional disorders going on and if that's the case they need professional/medical help. I've seen tons of kids with really bad behavior, violence, lack of empathy etc and I can think of several disorders that could be underlying.

    Spanking/biting a child to teach them not to be violent is not a solution in my opinion, especially if there is an underlying disorder going on. If I were those parents, I would be asking the school district to evaluate my children (both are at an age where the local district is required to evaluate upon request). Sorry to hear you're going through this, sending best wishes to you and your family. 
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    larrygagalarrygaga member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited February 2015
    So I think the story is that the kids attended preschool, were kicked out for being violent and misbehaving and the teachers saying they need more help or special ed for the one who still doesn't speak. The parents refuse saying they don't see it, kids get ejected from school. The parents are going broke taking them to expensive private schools. All my information on this end is second-hand, but neither kid goes to school right now. They are about 3 and 5. I don't even know for sure because I want so little to do with them. 

    When FI's sister has vented to me I would gently try to nudge her and make her see that the special help doesn't mean that her kids are bad or that she's a bad parent (although she is for refusing). 
    chibiyui said:
    Uh. Damn. None of that is healthy. 

    You said the home life was a little rough.......Is it possible that it's rougher then you think? In theory the little shits are learning it from somewhere. 

    Personally, I'd be burning bridges. I don't see how the kids are going to get help if everyone keeps tip toeing around it, and you have to take care of yourself and your future family. 
    Yeah, maybe it is. They need a lot of help, they had kids young and unprepared and still can't get their shit together. Their parents pay for everything they have and they are almost in their 30s. I don't think that they are learning violence from home, but maybe. 

    FI and I have already burned all the bridges we can. We tried to love these kids, we tried to help care for them. Part of the problem is their parents don't even want to deal with it, they love dumping their kids. Part of the reason I won't watch the kids anymore is they will ask you to take them for an hour and come back ten hours later after being unreachable all day. They will take an inch and make it a mile and so we have stopped helping them.

    I bet those babies pick up on the fact that nobody wants them. Which makes me angry. I deal with violent mentally ill adults all day everyday at work. I don't want to deal with it on the weekend when I expect to be visiting my family. I don't want to take my work home with me. You guys can judge me for feeling that way but oh well. I have had enough of getting hit in the face and bit and screamed at. I know it's not the kid's fault, and if the family actually worked at fixing the problem instead of denying there is a problem I believe I would have a lot more patience. At this point I am just hoping they grow out of it. I've said and done what a brother's girlfriend should say and do. 

    I was called a mean aunt this weekend by the dad because I didn't allow the older one to just grab my drink out of my hand. I told the kid that they need to ask for a drink, and I will get them one because I have a cold and I don't want to get them sick. I got a toy thrown at me and got called a mean aunt. Yeah, I'm a bad person for not liking the kids or the parents. 

    I take back what I said about their parenting. They are horrible parents. I see that now. I will read up on strategies on how to survive a weekend with them, and then maybe print it and leave it out for the parents to read. So they get yet another hint about their crazy ass kids.

    FI said last night that he doesn't want to deal with it anymore. He just flat out quit. FI was the young uncle that would wrestle and carry them on his shoulders, but he can't even do that without them taking it to the next level. 

    Quote from the mom from a few months ago "I don't know why everyone keeps saying my kids are so crazy" I started "jokingly" quoting this back every single time her kids do something. I don't even think that worked.

    I think the spanking and biting back is out of desperation on the parents and grandparents end this time. I agree that there are better ways. Like taking them to a psychologist. This is beyond misbehaved, guys. These kids enjoy hurting people. What keeps coming to my mind is when you read about serial killers who loved killing animals as a kid. I don't think I'm being extreme. They will be mostly grown before I start having kids, but if I were to have little ones when these guys are little I would not let them play together, ever. 
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    larrygaga said:
    So I think the story is that the kids attended preschool, were kicked out for being violent and misbehaving and the teachers saying they need more help or special ed for the one who still doesn't speak. The parents refuse saying they don't see it, kids get ejected from school. The parents are going broke taking them to expensive private schools. All my information on this end is second-hand, but neither kid goes to school right now. They are about 3 and 5. I don't even know for sure because I want so little to do with them. 

    When FI's sister has vented to me I would gently try to nudge her and make her see that the special help doesn't mean that her kids are bad or that she's a bad parent (although she is for refusing). 
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    Ah that makes more sense, the private preschool is free to kick kids out for being violent. A lot of times parents REFUSE to accept that there might be something wrong with their child and the child suffers because of it. It's sad but it happens. 
    The ironic part is they are spending all this money on private schools when it's possible the kid is entitled to free services to help him, but the parents have to do their part and advocate for their kid. But that won't happen if they can't accept that their kid needs help. Shitty situation :/ 
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    larrygagalarrygaga member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited February 2015
    Yep, it's shitty. The kids aren't even violent out of a temper, they just do it. For attention for fun or what, I have no idea. Sometimes they do it to get back at you for saying no to them, but most of the time it's just random. I have been reading this morning and most articles say if your toddler is aggressive it's because they don't know better. I think the kids are getting to be too old to not know any better. They aren't toddlers anymore.
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    larrygagalarrygaga member
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    edited February 2015
    FTR Larry, I don't think any of this makes you a bad person at all. The blame may be a bit misdirected - it's not the kids you hate, but the behaviors the parents have allowed to happen/continue. But even still, you're not obligated to love all kids all the time. If these people had a dog that constantly bit you and peed on your leg while they stood back and laughed, you'd have no problem saying you're not going to go anywhere that dog is anymore. This isn't much different. You've tried to help, they've refused, now you have the right to remove yourself from a bad situation.
    Thanks. This is what FI and anyone I've confided in tell me, as well. I just have never in my life come across a child that I couldn't stand. Don't know how to deal with it. 

    They are the only kids I ever really see anymore. I used to think I liked kids but on more than one occasion they made me doubt if I want them. I try to remember that most kids aren't like these kids. 

    I'm hoping when FI's other sister has her baby I can relearn what a good kid will be like and be excited to be around kids again.
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    edited February 2015
    I don't think you're a bad person at all for feeling/thinking this. Honestly, that's really scary and troubling behavior. And I'd probably feel the same way. 
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    You can come visit Tidbit. :)

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    JFC. They sound totally feral. I don't have advice, but I definitely don't think it says anything bad about you that you don't like to be around them all the time and find it hard to love them. I don't blame you at all for that. I'm sorry you have to deal with such a bad situation. 
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    I don't think you're a bad person for feeling the way you do. I love my nieces to death but they are SO spoiled and sometimes it makes me really not want to be around them.

    I am pretty shocked and saddened to read that schools are kicking them out for their behavior though. I represent kids with disabilities in obtaining educational services and if these are public schools they are breaking the law big time. They have an obligation to evaluate the kids and find out if they have a mental health problem/disability that is causing the behavior. If so, they need to provide services to help the kids, not punish them for it. 

    It's impossible to diagnose a kid over the internet obviously, but it does sound like they could possibly have some underlying mental health issues or emotional disorders going on and if that's the case they need professional/medical help. I've seen tons of kids with really bad behavior, violence, lack of empathy etc and I can think of several disorders that could be underlying.

    Spanking/biting a child to teach them not to be violent is not a solution in my opinion, especially if there is an underlying disorder going on. If I were those parents, I would be asking the school district to evaluate my children (both are at an age where the local district is required to evaluate upon request). Sorry to hear you're going through this, sending best wishes to you and your family. 
    I will piggy back this with the possibility of a speech/language disorder.  If their speech development is far behind their chronological age, they had to find a way to get attention to have their needs met.  Often in the case of delayed speech, actions will literally speak louder than words.  Kids will physically do what they can to gain attention.  If they were being ignored, or misunderstood as to what they wanted, frustration behaviors would emerge as well.  Now couple that with bad parenting, no structure or routine, no discipline, no consequences, and no appropriate modeling, and those kids are set up for escalating behaviors. 

    They are still young enough to be helped with a strong special education program with an emphasis on language development and behavior management.  The problem is that unless the parents follow through with not only enrolling them in a FREE public school setting, but making changes in their home life, those children will find themselves in an alternative education program. 

    You are not a bad person.  Your feelings toward the behavior of those kids is understandable.  Without being too psychobabble-ish, it really is the behaviors of those kids you hate, and not the kids themselves.  But they are intertwined.  Don't let bad parenting scare you away or doubt your desire to be a good parent.
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    Wow, reading this blew my mind. This behavior is completely out of control. When I read the part about hitting the pregnant's aunt belly my jaw literally dropped. With the lack of empathy they have I don't blame you for being concerned about their (and everyone they know)'s future.

    I have 5 nieces, my best friend has 6 nieces/nephews and my other best friend has like 15 and every single kid is great. Yea they have their moments and they mis-behave at times but they are all good kids that I would ever worry about them intentionally hurting anyone! I imagine it is hard but don't let these kids be the standard of what kids are!
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    I am a teacher, and I love kids a lot. With that said, I too have been around many that I found difficult to tolerate. One in particular was in my class last year. He threatened to kill me by stabbing my in the chest with scissors and watching me die. Why? Because he didn't want to do the writing assignment. He would destroy the classroom, rip up bulletin boards, scream, cuss, and hurt others over the smallest things. Sometimes, outside, he would hurt the other kids and then stand back and smile (creepy!!!) while I came over to check their scrapes or bruises. He liked to hurt people and stand back to watch the chaos he created. 

    I finally got so sick of walking on eggshells that I ignored him (unless he physically hurt someone), and I'd write a referral and send him straight to the office. I taught the other kids to ignore his screaming outbursts, and they were a dream class, so they did it perfectly. This just pissed him off to no end. He moved out of state at the beginning of this year. I know that someday, this child will murder someone just for fun. 

    You don't have to love every single child to love kids in general. Some kids are just too hard to be around. 
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    i love my nieces but when they start acting paranoid or act bratty i dont want to be around them. my sister went through a divorce and their father is paranoid and its ridiculous how paranoid the girls are of things when it comes to their dad. 

    i dont blame you but the parents need to stop tip toeing around the issue. the kids wont get any help if the parents arent willing to help them. if you arent going to bring kids up with respect they shouldnt be having kids. dont let how others parent keep you from having kids because you will learn from their mistakes and yours wont be as bad. I am learning from my sisters and how they parent and will parent slightly different.   
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    I have been watching too many SVU marathons because I instantly thought of an episode where this psychopath 8 year old boy does things like push his sister down the stairs and set her hair on fire. And when they ask him, instead of denying it or feeling bad, he says with a straight face "I wanted to see how she bounced and how'd she land". Sooo creepy and the parents refused to believe it and institutionalize him so the last scene is like him stabbing them. I know your nephews are obviously not at that level but if they are already lacking empathy now I can see them evolving into something pretty dark.
    Sorry I know none of that was helpful but I'm sorry!! And I hope the whole family can get some help before it gets any worse.

                                                                     

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    rcher912rcher912 member
    5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    edited February 2015
    larrygaga said: lolo883 said: FTR Larry, I don't think any of this makes you a bad person at all. The blame may be a bit misdirected - it's not the kids you hate, but the behaviors the parents have allowed to happen/continue. But even still, you're not obligated to love all kids all the time. If these people had a dog that constantly bit you and peed on your leg while they stood back and laughed, you'd have no problem saying you're not going to go anywhere that dog is anymore. This isn't much different. You've tried to help, they've refused, now you have the right to remove yourself from a bad situation. Thanks. This is what FI and anyone I've confided in tell me, as well. I just have never in my life come across a child that I couldn't stand. Don't know how to deal with it. 

    They are the only kids I ever really see anymore. I used to think I liked kids but on more than one occasion they made me doubt if I want them. I try to remember that most kids aren't like these kids. 
    I'm hoping when FI's other sister has her baby I can relearn what a good kid will be like and be excited to be around kids again.



    --------boxes--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------To the bolded: Just keep reminding yourself of that. This is not just bad parenting, it's
    clinical behavior and these kids need help. If it's genetics, there's medication and therapy, if it's a rough family life, there's therapy and structure. The help is there, but clearly the parents aren't on board yet.

    Also, keep reminding yourself that if your child did something like this it would be ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE in your house - you've even tried to discipline them! Your kids will have WAY more structure and boundaries, and will therefore be easier to control bad behavior.

    These nightmare children with nightmare parents are NOT the norm. We've all seen 'em, we've all had to tiptoe around them, but you DO NOT have to be them.

    Also? Just yikes.
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    500days500days member
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    edited February 2015
    Everything that @MobKaz has stated. Their parents should really seek out early intervention services through their state's department of education. There are tons of resources through state agencies for parents that are in this situation. They just need to do the research and reach out in order to get help. This is something that will not go away or that they will grow out of- like @Molly&Domenic I am a special ed teacher and I have seen these students year after year. And yes, it has not been unusual for siblings to come through year after year with similar behavior and emotional disorders.
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    You guys made me feel a lot better. I agree she needs to take them to get the help they need. I push her as much as I can but this entire family (excluding FI) has huge ego issues and they can do no wrong.
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    We've cut them out as much as we can. FI and I, that is. They can't get a babysitter from anyone but the grandparents. Problem is when the family gets together for a weekend, which we do often because they have a beautiful cabin on a lake. We ask if the kids will be there to see if we want to go, we get a no and lo and behold the kids show up because they got dumped on the grandparents. I only see them maybe a few times a year, but it's enough to piss me off to this level. 
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    I'm with @pinkrevenge‌ yep I'm big mean auntie now stop being little assholes and maybe I'll be nice. I called my mom a big meanie when I was a kid and she'd respond "you'll thank me when you aren't in prison". And hey I'm not in prison.

    @mrsk616‌ I'm wondering what you mean by acting paranoid? When I was young and my parents got divorced I would be paranoid about things. Stupid shit...cause I was a kid. Adults refusing to interact with me wouldn't stop me freaking out. Adults reassuring me did. Even as an adult I have paranoid thoughts that lead to panic attacks. Today I had one in the mall because what if the mall collapsed. Wtf? Why did I even start thinking that? Wifey didn't just walk away from me and leave me to my panic attack. She comforted me.

    The kids Larry are talking about are acting violent. Not paranoid.
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    Oh man. H's parents have a neighbor kid that is a lot like this but it's really obvious it's just a total lack of discipline. Kid will walk up to the dog and kick it and mom will tell him to put his listening ears on in a really sappy voice. MIL used to be really involved and friendly but after that she told the kid that she would kick him in the same place if he did it again.

    The fact that the one kid can't speak yet makes it really obvious that there is more to the story here and it really sucks that the parents won't get the help that they need. Maybe since they recently resorted to spanking, next will be actual professional help. 
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    Yeash, I have nothing more to add. You are a lot more patient then I would be with these parents and the kid's behaviour. Also @larrygaga‌ I love your new sig. Makes me want to make eggs to see this IRL lol
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    edited February 2015
    WHAT LARRY? You don't LIKE these kids?! But they're perfect little angelS!!!!!1!1!!1!1!!!!! (/SARCASM)

    No but for real I would refuse to be around these kids. Like, to the point where I'd leave if they turned up.

    And I'm with MagicInk and PinkRevenge - be the mean aunt and get the point across that their behavior is not acceptable. Although - didn't you say one of the PARENTS called you that, not one of the kiddos?

    Ugh. Disaster. Those kids (and the parents) need serious help, but it sounds like they're not going to get it until they're institutionalized for doing something heinous.

    edited to fix paragraphs.
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