Not sure if wtf is strong enough

themuffinman16

crackktheskyy said:

themuffinman16 said:

A month ago, the father has called the school to discuss with them the problems they are having with his daughter.  The guidance counselor said,  "We have been informed of your household situation.  A meeting won't be necessary."  The guidance counselor hung up on BIL.  The guidance counselor is who my niece first talked to when she claimed she was being abused. It is obvious they don't care to hear the other side of the story. CPS is closing the case against sister and brother in law, finding no abuse, and suggesting counseling. 

  They have an appointment next month.  There is little they will be able to do for her, at her age, to help her.  (As said by the counselors). The counseling is is more for the family.  This is who she is.  I think it will take her moving out, and learning a cold dose of reality that her friends aren't really her friends. They were never out for her best interest.

Whoa. I feel like I missed something in all of the posts prior to this one. I didn't realize CPS was involved.

While it's definitely messed up that your sister's SD deleted all of her photos, it is WAY more concerning that she is reporting abuse in the household. That's really, really, really messed up. 

I'm not a legal expert, but maybe your sister should speak to a lawyer and figure out how to protect herself? I mean, if this kid is lying about being abused, that's some serious shit. 

I was definitely an asshole to my parents when I was a teenager, but I just did things like dying my hair blue to piss them off. Crying wolf and reporting abuse to a school guidance counselor is unconscionable. 

I'm really sorry this is all happening to your family.

This happened in another post. Her father did hit her, but it was once. A week before the incident, she had told her aunt she was going to make a claim against her father to get emancipated, so she could live with her best friend. She told the cps worker that she has been abandoned, there's never any food in the house, she's been punched, beaten, and she can't concentrate on her schoolwork because of the poor home environment.  (She has to have decent grades to emancipate herself).

  The cps worker said if the father had spanked her once, and did not use an object, it was within his parental rights.  Since then, BIL admitted he will never spank her again.  It is highly inappropriate to use corporal punishment on a teenager. But he never beat her or did any of those things she said he did. The Cps worker was catching his daughter in a lot of lies in the home visit, and caught her in several more in other home visits. She recommended therapy and to have limited exposure of step-daughter with her much younger siblings. (Like not leaving them alone with her, because it could affect their behavior.)

themuffinman16

H has been able to recover some photos, but not all. He is working on a way to recover the rest of them. The day she deleted the photos was the day after she was being scolded for failing two classes. H is working on it more, tonight. I am so thankful that he is so good at this technology stuff.

CMGragain

Everybody seems to be focusing on the lost photos.  I would worry more about the anger issues the daughter obviously has.

1.  No more computer, except for supervised academic time.  No social computer time.  None!
2.  Counseling is necessary for the entire family.
3.  Is the girl's mother in the picture?  What does she have to say?
4.  Don't expect miracles at the age of 17.  This girl is headed for big trouble if she can't deal with her anger in a better way. I predict that there will be more trouble down the road, and this young lady will need every bit of family support she can get, even though she doesn't appreciate it right now..
5.  Be there for your sister, but don't trash talk her step daughter.  Your sister needs love and support, but not more anger.

themuffinman16

Her mother doesn't want anything to do with her. She had said her mother physically abused her, and for the longest time I believed her. Now, I am not so sure.
I have been trying to calm my sister down , and just let her vent. She has lost a lot of sleep throughout all of this and constantly has nightmares that her kids are going to be taken away . I just tell her if it ever gets to be too much, she can stay with me and H.

rcher912

I actually worked for CPS for a little while in my area, and had a family very much like this. There was a 17 YO kid who was just a nightmare, and three littler ones who were starting to act out (whether mom or the teen was the cause - or both - I'll never know.) Honestly, mom was just counting the days until the kid was 18, because before that, you can't kick the kid out - it IS abandonment.

And I'm glad CPS is closing the case, that's a really good sign. There's nothing they can do if the girl needs therapy.

Honestly, I agree with PPs - just being there for your sis is the most important. But damn, if there are any overnight behavioral programs - I've seen some Outward-Boud-y type things - they can afford or get her to, that might help. Maybe.

So sorry for your sister. I hope 18 comes soon.

[Deleted User]

themuffinman16

My sister is the stricter one, but without the support of H there is little she can do. She tried monitored the computers as best she could , now she won't let her use it all. She has found the first secret phone and took that away. She keeps looking for the second secret phone with no luck . She has taken her kindle, but SD doesn't even care because she has a cell phone. My sister has taken away all of her favorite things away, but SD doesn't seem to care.
She isn't allowed to hang out with her friends, but she lies about her work schedule, and hangs out with them when she is supposed to be working.

southernbelle0915

So this girl's dad won't do anything? Well makes sense why she does such bold shit all the time. The router would be unplugged during her computer time and shed be supervised Bitch can use the library or school if she needs the internet. Also, she gets a track phone. No data. And she lost the privilege of a bedroom door. Sorry toots. You can change in the bathroom, but all other privacy is gone. A bike would replace her car and curfew just got moved to 10pm. That's what happens when you act a fool.

bride2b71614

Wow, well this adds a whole new complication to the story. May I ask why the daughter wanted to get emancipated from her father other than living with her best friend? There has to be more behind it. 

Personally, I think that your BIL is not helping the situation. Their daughter is out of control because there aren't any real consequences for her shitty behavior. From what you are telling us BIL is letting your sister do all of the dirty work and hiding behind her. Your BIL sounds scared of his own daughter! I can understand his fear especially because she convinced a counselor to have CPS called on them, but holy crap he needs to establish boundaries with his daughter!

I am surprised that CPS didn't put them into counseling or provide wrap around services immediately. You mentioned that the school's counselor said that the daughter didn't require counseling, and hung up on him? I think that he should physically go down to the school and say that he feels at a loss and that his daughter is out of control, and that he is requesting that she get counseling for herself (bring those recorded conversations, and whatever evidence she has). I don't think its normal for a school to provide a family with counseling,  but I think that they can definitely provide a student with a few sessions. Does the town only have one counselor? If not, can they afford to get an earlier appointment with a different counselor? Because of the SD's willingness to lie to CPS and because she's got a box cutter in her room, I think its best to err on the side of caution.

firebabe6519

larrygaga said:

firebabe6519 said:

Have you tried contacting the merchant for the app. I'm sure others have had mishaps with their program being uninstalled before. Maybe they can help.

As for the stepdaughter... In my family your ass would be getting spanked for that shit. Who the hell does that to someone? Evil child.

Don't spank a 17 year old. Wait until she turns 18 and film it and then you can make money off it. 

Are you kind of uncomfortable from reading that? Because that's exactly how inappropriate it would be to spank someone almost fully grown if you aren't about to bed her. 

No one said it was a teenager when I posted. Obviously the punishment changes when kids get older.

Dreamergirl8812

firebabe6519 said:

firebabe6519 said:

Have you tried contacting the merchant for the app. I'm sure others have had mishaps with their program being uninstalled before. Maybe they can help. As for the stepdaughter... In my family your ass would be getting spanked for that shit. Who the hell does that to someone? Evil child.

Don't spank a 17 year old. Wait until she turns 18 and film it and then you can make money off it. 

Are you kind of uncomfortable from reading that? Because that's exactly how inappropriate it would be to spank someone almost fully grown if you aren't about to bed her. 

No one said it was a teenager when I posted. Obviously the punishment changes when kids get older.

If she's old enough to fail two classes, you shouldn't have your hands on her ass.

buttercup1958

Dreamergirl8812 said:

firebabe6519 said:

firebabe6519 said:

Have you tried contacting the merchant for the app. I'm sure others have had mishaps with their program being uninstalled before. Maybe they can help. As for the stepdaughter... In my family your ass would be getting spanked for that shit. Who the hell does that to someone? Evil child.

Don't spank a 17 year old. Wait until she turns 18 and film it and then you can make money off it. 

Are you kind of uncomfortable from reading that? Because that's exactly how inappropriate it would be to spank someone almost fully grown if you aren't about to bed her. 

No one said it was a teenager when I posted. Obviously the punishment changes when kids get older.

If she's old enough to fail two classes, you shouldn't have your hands on her ass.

I don't agree with spanking in general but you can fail classes when you are a kid. I saw it all the time when I was younger. Several people failed 2nd grade and 1st grade at my school.

theartistformerlyknownas

When you're little you fail entire grades, not individual classes. And if you have to repeat the grade, you'd find out at the end of the year, not in February. It was pretty obvious (even if I hadn't known the other stories about this girl) that she's a teenager.

buttercup1958

lolo883 said:

When you're little you fail entire grades, not individual classes. And if you have to repeat the grade, you'd find out at the end of the year, not in February. It was pretty obvious (even if I hadn't known the other stories about this girl) that she's a teenager.

Stuck in Box

You have a point! I guess its been awhile that I've been in grade school and I haven't been around a lot of kids. My family is old, I'm one of the youngest. My cousins have kids only several years younger than me. So I can see how someone can miss the connection. Anyways this seems like a crappy situation all around in general.

ashley8918

firebabe6519 said:

larrygaga said:

firebabe6519 said:

Have you tried contacting the merchant for the app. I'm sure others have had mishaps with their program being uninstalled before. Maybe they can help.

As for the stepdaughter... In my family your ass would be getting spanked for that shit. Who the hell does that to someone? Evil child.

Don't spank a 17 year old. Wait until she turns 18 and film it and then you can make money off it. 

Are you kind of uncomfortable from reading that? Because that's exactly how inappropriate it would be to spank someone almost fully grown if you aren't about to bed her. 

No one said it was a teenager when I posted. Obviously the punishment changes when kids get older.

It doesn't even matter. Corporal punishment is never a good suggestion. It's ineffective and inappropriate.

But it was pretty damn obvious from the get-go that this was a teenager.

chibiyui

Honestly, if I was your sister, I'm not sure I'd want to stay with her husband. If his response to his daughter is self-destrucing and hurting everyone else along the way is to do nothing, I wouldn't want his ass around my kids, even if he's the dad. Because he's really fucking up this whole father thing.

theartistformerlyknownas

chibiyui said:

Honestly, if I was your sister, I'm not sure I'd want to stay with her husband. If his response to his daughter is self-destrucing and hurting everyone else along the way is to do nothing, I wouldn't want his ass around my kids, even if he's the dad. Because he's really fucking up this whole father thing.

Ditto. If he's this shitty of a dad to her, who's to say he'll be any better with the younger two as they get older? It's not like this is a new or one-time scenario, and he's not taking it any more seriously. I'd be bouncing.

ohannabelle

I remember the brother in law, now. Brother in law is a crappy parent. Any grown man who would think it's appropriate to spank a teenage girl, no matter how he excuses and trivializes the situation, is an incompetent parent, at best. 

There are just so many excuses running through the whole story. It's her mom's fault, the school won't help, he didn't really hit her, they can't punish her, she's an evil liar, she has to have the computer, there isn't time to supervise her because there are other children, there's a waiting list for therapy, or he works too much....ad infinitum. 

And in the end, there just aren't any excuses that fly.

The child was born with two parents, and if one fucked up, so did the other. And this isn't new behavior, if I remember. This kid has had issues for a long time, and the whole damned family should have gotten help long ago. I'm sure there's an excuse or a hundred why this didn't happen. No excuse is valid. Her parents dropped the ball, and her dad can't be bothered to parent, or didn't care enough to learn how.

I really hope he gets some parenting classes before the other two get any older. Because the same techniques will get the same results, and I would hate for that to happen. 

This is just sad. Sad and unnecessary.

Parenting is hard work. Especially with teenagers, I get that. There were days I locked myself in the bathroom and cried because there aren't any military boarding schools in Siberia to send them to. And there aren't, because I checked.

But then you suck it up, toughen up, and do the work. Because screwing people up isn't an option. 

Dad needs to get to work, and learn how to be a parent, instead of blaming everyone and everything else, and shoving this all on your sister. 

[Deleted User]

themuffinman16

I think sister's BIL is a decent guy, and he loves his children.  Loving your kids and being a responsible parent, aren't the same thing, though. He needs to understand that even though he works two jobs, he still has to clock in for the third and most important job. If you do a good job raising your kids until they are 18, you don't need to work that hard after they turn 18.  I fear that her behavior of lying will cost SD so many jobs, damage relationships both inside and outside of the family, and she will never be able to leave the nest, because she's not prepared for the real world.

   I hope in counseling he sees that loving your children does not mean letting them do whatever they want because you are desperate to be liked. I also, hope their counseling will give them tips on how to parent her once she is 18. I know the dynamic changes, and you should reduce your involvement once a kid turns 18, but I feel like the SD is so emotionally stunted, she seems like a 10 year old, at times . I know SD probably won't move out once she is 18, but she knows her father would never kick her out, no matter what she did. I know her behavior will only get worse when she turns 18, because she has no fear of any consequences, unless something changes.

   CPS called me to ask me my perspective, because they needed the perspective of an outsider. My BIL has been irritated  with me, since, because I told the social worker of all the behavior I have seen. I told the social worker everything, and my BIL seems to be irritated that I wasn't trying to protect his daughter. Either he is an abuser, or she lied. To me, it is almost like he would rather be painted out as doing something he didn't do, just to protect his daughter from someone thinking less of her. And the amount that he covers for her, is why she is the way she is.  He won't always be there to pick up after her, and she will be screwed.

Teddy917

I'm pretty sure iPhoto automatically backs up to the iCloud.

KatieinBkln

themuffinman16 said:

My sister is the stricter one, but without the support of H there is little she can do. She tried monitored the computers as best she could , now she won't let her use it all. She has found the first secret phone and took that away. She keeps looking for the second secret phone with no luck . She has taken her kindle, but SD doesn't even care because she has a cell phone. My sister has taken away all of her favorite things away, but SD doesn't seem to care. She isn't allowed to hang out with her friends, but she lies about her work schedule, and hangs out with them when she is supposed to be working.

How does she have money to buy herself a secret phone?

A job at that age is still a privilege. I'd starve the beast, take away her income, and crack down on all her freedom, a la @pinkrevenge 's advice.

themuffinman16

Her friends give her their old phones, because she is not 18 yet, and would need a parent to sign a cell phone contract.

  But I agree, if she is working at this job to do things she shouldn't be doing, maybe she should stay at home and do absolutely nothing. They wanted her to have this job, though to teach her responsibility, and that she has to work to get what she wants.

wandajune6

ohannabelle said:

I remember the brother in law, now. Brother in law is a crappy parent. Any grown man who would think it's appropriate to spank a teenage girl, no matter how he excuses and trivializes the situation, is an incompetent parent, at best. 

There are just so many excuses running through the whole story. It's her mom's fault, the school won't help, he didn't really hit her, they can't punish her, she's an evil liar, she has to have the computer, there isn't time to supervise her because there are other children, there's a waiting list for therapy, or he works too much....ad infinitum. 

And in the end, there just aren't any excuses that fly.

The child was born with two parents, and if one fucked up, so did the other. And this isn't new behavior, if I remember. This kid has had issues for a long time, and the whole damned family should have gotten help long ago. I'm sure there's an excuse or a hundred why this didn't happen. No excuse is valid. Her parents dropped the ball, and her dad can't be bothered to parent, or didn't care enough to learn how.

I really hope he gets some parenting classes before the other two get any older. Because the same techniques will get the same results, and I would hate for that to happen. 

This is just sad. Sad and unnecessary.

Parenting is hard work. Especially with teenagers, I get that. There were days I locked myself in the bathroom and cried because there aren't any military boarding schools in Siberia to send them to. And there aren't, because I checked.

But then you suck it up, toughen up, and do the work. Because screwing people up isn't an option. 

Dad needs to get to work, and learn how to be a parent, instead of blaming everyone and everything else, and shoving this all on your sister. 

@ohannabelle- thanks for saying that. As a step-parent to a teen boy, I really needed to hear that for completely selfish reasons- totally unrelated to the OP.

Beyond this, I agree with the PPs. This is a deeply-troubled girl. Perhaps her mother abused her but my instinct says that the kid is a masterful manipulator who will harm anyone to get what she wants. It sounds like both parents have made endless mistakes. I even understand why the mom wants nothing to do with her. This strikes me as a situation where they need significant amounts of professional help. Perhaps not the military school in Siberia but there are outpatient full-time counseling programs. I would also think that perhaps some serious counseling would be a better use of her time than a job.

Good luck to your family!

KatieinBkln

themuffinman16 said:

Her friends give her their old phones, because she is not 18 yet, and would need a parent to sign a cell phone contract.

  But I agree, if she is working at this job to do things she shouldn't be doing, maybe she should stay at home and do absolutely nothing. They wanted her to have this job, though to teach her responsibility, and that she has to work to get what she wants.

I'm afraid I still don't follow--one can have a physical phone but without a contract or minutes it's useless. Contracts and minutes cost money.

I see why they would've wanted her to have a job, but apparently she's beyond that. This girl needs to work at home, by doing chores, to earn the currency called Trust. Once she has earned a sufficient amount of Trust, she may begin earning Privileges, such as limited television time, limited computer time, or limited time being allowed to drive the car while her parents are in it, say, to pick up milk. I highly doubt that she will have earned enough Trust and Privilege credit by the time she comes of age to actually graduate to "Ca$h money," but that would be the trajectory where I come from.

theartistformerlyknownas

KatieinBkln said:

themuffinman16 said:

Her friends give her their old phones, because she is not 18 yet, and would need a parent to sign a cell phone contract.

  But I agree, if she is working at this job to do things she shouldn't be doing, maybe she should stay at home and do absolutely nothing. They wanted her to have this job, though to teach her responsibility, and that she has to work to get what she wants.

I'm afraid I still don't follow--one can have a physical phone but without a contract or minutes it's useless. Contracts and minutes cost money.

I see why they would've wanted her to have a job, but apparently she's beyond that. This girl needs to work at home, by doing chores, to earn the currency called Trust. Once she has earned a sufficient amount of Trust, she may begin earning Privileges, such as limited television time, limited computer time, or limited time being allowed to drive the car while her parents are in it, say, to pick up milk. I highly doubt that she will have earned enough Trust and Privilege credit by the time she comes of age to actually graduate to "Ca$h money," but that would be the trajectory where I come from.

Unless she's only using it on WiFi, in which case I'd shut it down.

[Deleted User]

themuffinman16

I guess teens can install apps to text message and use wireless internet.  That is how my sister found out she had a second secret phone.  SD asked her friend for the phone over the landline, and days later, a new IP address showed up in their verizon account.  My sister was contemplating shutting the phone down, but she wanted to find it, and without knowing the IP address was synched up to the carrier, she would never know if the phone was in the house.

  I guess my sister is at a crossroads, she doesn't want her using the phone, but is really enraged that she has a second secret cell phone after they took the last one away. She really wanted to find it to confront teen about it, and to prove to H that his daughter is not walking the line like she says she is. Unless he has burning proof in his hand, he will give his daughter the benefit of the doubt.

[Deleted User]

ashley8918

It seems like the real issue here, is that dad is a fucking doormat and your sister is enabling him by not demanding that he FUCKING DO SOMETHING. There is absolutely no advice that can be given, if he isn't going to enforce the rules with this out of control kid, and she is going to let his non-parenting shit fly.