Not sure if wtf is strong enough

themuffinman16

She has access to friends because they visit her at work, or she sees them at school. She has been banned from hanging out with friends outside of school. Since the abuse charges went down, she was only allowed to have supervised phone calls with friends.  She is only supposed to use the house phone in front of my sister or her father, in the same room. SD had a cell  phone that her father provided, but has been taken away for almost a year now, because of bad grades. When they implemented that she had to have supervision to use the phone, that is when she got the first secret phone. The found that, took that one away.  Then Christmas, and she took friend's old phone when she got a new one.

   There are also several parents of friends that have been helping her.  I don't know who gets involved with someone's kid like that, but I am sure she has a victim story for them. And they just feel sorry for her. She had admitted in a conversation that one of her friend's mom is a legal aid and has helped her out a lot, throughout all of this. 

KatieinBkln

themuffinman16 said:

I guess teens can install apps to text message and use wireless internet.  That is how my sister found out she had a second secret phone.  SD asked her friend for the phone over the landline, and days later, a new IP address showed up in their verizon account.  My sister was contemplating shutting the phone down, but she wanted to find it, and without knowing the IP address was synched up to the carrier, she would never know if the phone was in the house.

  I guess my sister is at a crossroads, she doesn't want her using the phone, but is really enraged that she has a second secret cell phone after they took the last one away. She really wanted to find it to confront teen about it, and to prove to H that his daughter is not walking the line like she says she is. Unless he has burning proof in his hand, he will give his daughter the benefit of the doubt.

How is "new IP address on our Verizon account" not "proof"? I'm sorry, I feel like all of this is coming across as being directed at you, but honestly I think nothing's going to change for your sister and her family until she can draw some boundaries and her H can sack up and get out of denial.

Regardless of whether they can get SD into therapy (and oh lord, they should), they need therapy for themselves ASAP. Ideally with a therapist who specializes in behavioral therapy or co-dependent relationships. These poor people have themselves so caught up in meaningless minutiae that they can't see the clear options staring them in the face. Are they afraid that if they lock down on SD she'll call CPS again? Okay, so she does. They've already been in, they know something ain't right with her from the last time she cried wolf. Are they afraid she'll do something to harm them, herself, or the little ones? If so then that's even more reason to act and act quickly, not to bury their heads in the sand and wring their hands because kids these days have apps for texting and calling right over the wifi. Of course they do. And wifi ain't fuckin' free, nor is access to it a right. 

ashley8918

themuffinman16 said:

She has access to friends because they visit her at work, or she sees them at school. She has been banned from hanging out with friends outside of school. Since the abuse charges went down, she was only allowed to have supervised phone calls with friends.  She is only supposed to use the house phone in front of my sister or her father, in the same room. SD had a cell  phone that her father provided, but has been taken away for almost a year now, because of bad grades. When they implemented that she had to have supervision to use the phone, that is when she got the first secret phone. The found that, took that one away.  Then Christmas, and she took friend's old phone when she got a new one.

   There are also several parents of friends that have been helping her.  I don't know who gets involved with someone's kid like that, but I am sure she has a victim story for them. And they just feel sorry for her. She had admitted in a conversation that one of her friend's mom is a legal aid and has helped her out a lot, throughout all of this. 

MAKE HER QUIT HER JOB AND TAKE AWAY ALL OF HER NON-ESSENTIAL SHIT. FUCK. Why is that so difficult? I am getting really frustrated. It's called fucking parenting, DO IT (the parents, obviously).

lyndausvi

themuffinman16 said:

I guess teens can install apps to text message and use wireless internet.  That is how my sister found out she had a second secret phone.  SD asked her friend for the phone over the landline, and days later, a new IP address showed up in their verizon account.  My sister was contemplating shutting the phone down, but she wanted to find it, and without knowing the IP address was synched up to the carrier, she would never know if the phone was in the house.

  I guess my sister is at a crossroads, she doesn't want her using the phone, but is really enraged that she has a second secret cell phone after they took the last one away. She really wanted to find it to confront teen about it, and to prove to H that his daughter is not walking the line like she says she is. Unless he has burning proof in his hand, he will give his daughter the benefit of the doubt.

You are so cute.   What's app, Viber, Skype can all be used to text via WiFi.   I use What's app to talk to my overseas friends for free.

Key is you need data or Wifi.      I would change my wifi password so she can't use it at home.   If your neighbors are too stupid to secure their own wifi, well there isn't much you can do.

Also make sure the other phones and/or ipad/tablets are not used as hotspots.    It's not hard to turn a tablet into a hotspot.  A smart teen can easily do that.

themuffinman16

Well, they have a counseling appt in two weeks. But if he doesn't respond to that, short of leaving him, there is really nothing  else she can make him do to parent his child. I don't think she is at that point, though. I think there may come a time where she reaches that point, because I think SD will just escalate and do more atrocious things. My sister knows she has two kids in the house, and she is worried that they will pick up her deceitfulness or her manipulative behavior.  If things do not change, SD doesn't move out, or things escalate, I think sister will move out.

  The biggest problem is sister's H likes to push, "it's my daughter and my responsibility to punish her," and then he never does.  When sister punishes his daughter, often times he lifts the punishment, letting SD know that she ranks in the household. My sister has a lot more control over her biological children, sets boundaries for them, and her H doesn't care too much to challenge them.  BIL's biggest problem is that he doesn't see my sister as a parent to his child, even though she watches her 95% of the time. If you think you are the only one who is fit to punish your children, you should make sure they are never in anyone else's care. It isn't fair to the other person.

   When I have kids, whoever I leave them with will have complete control over disciplining them.  Needless to say, I will only make sure they are in hands I trust to make sure the punishment isn't ridiculous (I wouldn't want anyone else using corporal punishment on my children... I'm not even sure if I would do that myself). But unless I want my children to be terrible bastards, I will always let someone else discipline them when I am not present. Kids need to have swift punishments, otherwise, they won't think what they did was wrong (especially when they have to wait 4 days before they see an authoritative figure, again.)

ashley8918

themuffinman16 said:

Well, they have a counseling appt in two weeks. But if he doesn't respond to that, short of leaving him, there is really nothing  else she can make him do to parent his child. I don't think she is at that point, though. I think there may come a time where she reaches that point, because I think SD will just escalate and do more atrocious things. My sister knows she has two kids in the house, and she is worried that they will pick up her deceitfulness or her manipulative behavior.  If things do not change, SD doesn't move out, or things escalate, I think sister will move out.

  The biggest problem is sister's H likes to push, "it's my daughter and my responsibility to punish her," and then he never does.  When sister punishes his daughter, often times he lifts the punishment, letting SD know that she ranks in the household. My sister has a lot more control over her children, sets boundaries for them, and her H doesn't care too much to challenge them.  BIL's biggest problem is that he doesn't see my sister as a parent to his child, even though she watches her 95% of the time. If you think you are the only one who is fit to punish your children, you should make sure they are never in anyone else's care. It isn't fair to the other person.

   When I have kids, whoever I leave them with will have complete control over disciplining them.  Needless to say, I will only make sure they are in hands I trust to make sure the punishment isn't ridiculous (I wouldn't want anyone else using corporal punishment on my children... I'm not even sure if I would do that myself). But unless I want my children to be terrible bastards, I will always let someone else discipline them when I am not present. Kids need to have swift punishments, otherwise, they won't think what they did was wrong (especially when they have to wait 4 days before they see an authoritative figure, again.)

 

Oh, there is definitely something she can do. Threaten to get the fuck out, and then be prepaerd to do so.

From now on, that's going to be my only advice: Leave him.

KatieinBkln

themuffinman16 said:

Well, they have a counseling appt in two weeks. But if he doesn't respond to that, short of leaving him, there is really nothing  else she can make him do to parent his child. I don't think she is at that point, though. I think there may come a time where she reaches that point, because I think SD will just escalate and do more atrocious things. My sister knows she has two kids in the house, and she is worried that they will pick up her deceitfulness or her manipulative behavior.  If things do not change, SD doesn't move out, or things escalate, I think sister will move out.

  The biggest problem is sister's H likes to push, "it's my daughter and my responsibility to punish her," and then he never does.  When sister punishes his daughter, often times he lifts the punishment, letting SD know that she ranks in the household. My sister has a lot more control over her biological children, sets boundaries for them, and her H doesn't care too much to challenge them.  BIL's biggest problem is that he doesn't see my sister as a parent to his child, even though she watches her 95% of the time. If you think you are the only one who is fit to punish your children, you should make sure they are never in anyone else's care. It isn't fair to the other person.

   When I have kids, whoever I leave them with will have complete control over disciplining them.  Needless to say, I will only make sure they are in hands I trust to make sure the punishment isn't ridiculous (I wouldn't want anyone else using corporal punishment on my children... I'm not even sure if I would do that myself). But unless I want my children to be terrible bastards, I will always let someone else discipline them when I am not present. Kids need to have swift punishments, otherwise, they won't think what they did was wrong (especially when they have to wait 4 days before they see an authoritative figure, again.)

Ugh. Layer upon layer of dysfunction up in here. I am sorry you're bearing the secondhand brunt of all of it.

Honestly, if my H were to pull the bolded on me, then I would come back with "You are not living up to that responsibility, and it is destroying our family. Grow up and parent your child if you won't let me do it. How can I trust you to parent our children if this is the example you set? I realize SD has problems but you exacerbate them by your inaction. Figure it out." But she has to be ready to leave him if he doesn't act, and it sounds like (for whatever reason) she isn't there yet. I'm sorry. It must be hard to watch.

ashley8918

I guess I'm just not sure what you are looking for here? You OP was about a seemingly benign asshole teenager thing that the SD did, and now it's evolved to, IMO, both her father and her step-mother not really doing shit about her extremely self-destructive and otherwise shit behavior. There is nothing we can say to help if neither one of them is willing to take appropriate action.

Appropriate action being:

A-Dad fucking parents, and lets you sister parent.

or

B-Your sister leaves.

themuffinman16

I think it's because SD is at an age where she could possibly move out if she didn't want to live at home, anymore.  That is my sister's silver lining. I know SD is terrible, but it really isn't her fault. I mean when you are an adult, you can decide who you want to be, but when everything comes together, it is no wonder why she behaves that way.  I hope SD moves out on  her own and realizes life is much harder than she thought it would be.  I think only then will she appreciate my sister and want to be helpful and not hurtful towards the household.  I hope.

   It is really such a shame, because she had so much more potential to be a sweet person if she had enough discipline and boundaries. My sister is a lot like me, we were raised in strict households. We would never be as strict as our parents, but we know you raise children with firm boundaries so they become well-adjusted adults.  It is sad when your children no longer need you and move out of the house, but it is even sadder when they could never function without you.

ashley8918

JFC. Okay.

themuffinman16

I am really mad at SD.  She does terrible things.  I was venting because I thought all of those baby photos would never be recovered. It's okay to be mad at someone, but there can be reason why they do it.  I am irritated because unless sis leaves, she has to deal with this shitty situation.  

  Sis punishes SD, and would punish her even harder, if the punishment would stick. It was her idea to take the door of the hinges. BIL said he was going to make her do community service and then never did. He is the only one who has a car, so sis can't implement community service without a way to take her there. I don't think Sis is lenient at all, I do think BIL is a pushover and just wants to be liked.  My sister does not care that SD hates her... that just means she is doing her job.

  I doubt counseling will work, and that makes me sad. BIL is a hard worker, and is very loving, but I know my sister can't go on like this forever. It is only a matter of time before SD does something even worse. I know it's to make my sister leave, and BIL is stupid to be in such denial. SD may get her wish, though.

theartistformerlyknownas

Your sister's kids don't have to "pick up SD's deceitful behavior," to turn out badly. If they have a disengaged POS for a dad who doesn't teach them right from wrong, and they have to lash out for attention, they'll end up fucked up even without her influence. 

I know this isn't your issue, but if this was my sister and she kept coming to me with these problems, my only response would be "so when are you leaving him?" or maybe "so you'll need the guest room then?" You can't help parent someone else's child, but you damn sure can help her decide to parent her own children by getting them away from a father who is flat-out FAILING. No matter what has or hasn't happened with the girl's mom or the girl or whatever, he is failing at fathering and needs a fucking wake-up call before he screws up more humans.

themuffinman16

Well, I offered my place to her and the kids.  If things do not go well with counseling, I think she will take me up on it.

ashley8918

themuffinman16 said:

Well, I offered my place to her and the kids.  If things do not go well with counseling, I think she will take me up on it.

That's good. I think that what Lolo is saying is that this should really be your only advice to her on this subject at this point. (and I agree -  "SD did...." or "H wont blah blah blah..." "Leave him. The guestroom is open")

southernbelle0915

themuffinman16 said:

Well, I offered my place to her and the kids.  If things do not go well with counseling, I think she will take me up on it.

It's great you've offered up your place. It's so important people don't feel stuck. It's always hard to watch someone you love go through something like this. She's in a really tough position. 

KatieinBkln

lolo883 said:

Your sister's kids don't have to "pick up SD's deceitful behavior," to turn out badly. If they have a disengaged POS for a dad who doesn't teach them right from wrong, and they have to lash out for attention, they'll end up fucked up even without her influence. 

I know this isn't your issue, but if this was my sister and she kept coming to me with these problems, my only response would be "so when are you leaving him?" or maybe "so you'll need the guest room then?" You can't help parent someone else's child, but you damn sure can help her decide to parent her own children by getting them away from a father who is flat-out FAILING. No matter what has or hasn't happened with the girl's mom or the girl or whatever, he is failing at fathering and needs a fucking wake-up call before he screws up more humans.

It does concern me that when SD is no longer around to be the scapegoat, H's lack of parenting skills will come to bear upon the sister's kids. He might be able to shape up and turn it around, but I haven't seen any evidence that he's willing to take the hard steps needed to do so.

[Deleted User]

themuffinman16

pinkrevenge said:

I just really doubt that she'll move away any time soon or stay away. The girl knows she can do whatever she wants and live rent-free, then manipulate others to give her phones and other gifts. Why would she go live somewhere she has to clean and pay for?

  I agree. I told my sister she needs to up her chores and make SD know it will not be a cakewalk when she turns 18.  Just because you have become an adult, does not mean you get to disrespect someone in their home and have no consequences.

Cookie Pusher

This situation is just so ridiculous. The fact that your BIL won't allow your sister to discipline SD is kind of insane to me. They're married. It's THEIR home that this hellion is living in. There should be an agreed upon standard of behavior and an agreed upon set of punishments for violating that. If you love and trust someone enough to marry them, you should hopefully love and trust them enough to appropriately co-parent your children.

theartistformerlyknownas

Cookie Pusher said:

This situation is just so ridiculous. The fact that your BIL won't allow your sister to discipline SD is kind of insane to me. They're married. It's THEIR home that this hellion is living in. There should be an agreed upon standard of behavior and an agreed upon set of punishments for violating that. If you love and trust someone enough to marry them, you should hopefully love and trust them enough to appropriately co-parent your children.

But then it would become glaringly obvious that she CAN be disciplined, she CAN be parented, and he'll stick out like a sore thumb as being completely ineffective. It won't be SD's fault anymore, it'll be his. He doesn't want that to come to light.

huskypuppy14

What does this SD have to do to make her dad realize he needs to wake up punish her. Does she have to hurt one of her siblings? Seriously, your sister needs to leave him if he won't let her discipline the SD.

My parents always backed each other up when raising us. The fact that your BIL won't let your sister parent, is a big part of the problem. SD knows she doesn't have to listen to her. Ugh, this is a huge mess.

JenLD2015

Not to bring up something ugly, but is it possible one of the biological mom's boyfriends did abuse SD?  Her behavior sounds like it stems from something that did happen to her.  Sure, some kids are inherently manipulative, but many of those kids are coming from a traumatic situation.  The calling CPS, maybe she is reporting abuse...just not the REAL abuse.  Maybe if Dad wasn't so out to lunch with parenting, he would be able to communicate with his child and get her real help...the kind she could be asking for. 

Has BIL or your sister considered calling a women's health clinic?  They may be able to get the SD some real help and determine if her behavior stems from something that she isn't safely able to talk about. 

Just a thought.