We don't have very friendly families

TrixieJess

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Darling, you are 17, at 17 I was in love too with a man that I wanted to marry and have babies with. Then we went off to University, well he went to University, I went off to work and party down and "find myself". Then I went to University at 22. 

We kept in contact throughout the years but he is not the person I ultimately ended up with. The person who I was at 17 is very different from the person I am now 20 years later, even 10 years later. 

Can you grow older with your FI? Can you see this being the last person you have an intimate relationship with? Do you have other friends and interests outside of your FI? You don't mention friends, just family. What do they think? Love will not solve all of your problems. I love my FI, there are days I want to murder him in his sleep, but I love him. Can you get past small little things that may come up? What about larger things? Do you talk about future endevours? Travel, school, children? All of these are important to marriage.

My friends are his friends. I have a decent amount of friends, all of which get along very well with him. We talk about the future a lot, especially travel, school, and children. I certainly don't have any issue with him being the one I grow old with or the last person I have an intimate relationship with. That's exactly what I want. I have lots of interests outside of him. We both have a nice amount of things we can do separate, for our own time, and things we can do together. We can get past things, we have gotten past things. Of course we get mad at each other at times, we have arguments and disagreements. We always work them out, big or small. 

Yes, but at 17 the disagreements are very different than they are at 25, 30, 35...have you thought about this? Worst case scenarios? And his friends are your friends is a RED FLAG. Why doesn't he have his own friends? My FI has friends that he has known since elementary school that he hangs out with, I know them well enough to say hi and make small talk, that's it, but they are his life line. We have mutual friends too (how we met) but all in all, we are separate entities. 

[Deleted User]

TrixieJess said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Darling, you are 17, at 17 I was in love too with a man that I wanted to marry and have babies with. Then we went off to University, well he went to University, I went off to work and party down and "find myself". Then I went to University at 22. 

We kept in contact throughout the years but he is not the person I ultimately ended up with. The person who I was at 17 is very different from the person I am now 20 years later, even 10 years later. 

Can you grow older with your FI? Can you see this being the last person you have an intimate relationship with? Do you have other friends and interests outside of your FI? You don't mention friends, just family. What do they think? Love will not solve all of your problems. I love my FI, there are days I want to murder him in his sleep, but I love him. Can you get past small little things that may come up? What about larger things? Do you talk about future endevours? Travel, school, children? All of these are important to marriage.

My friends are his friends. I have a decent amount of friends, all of which get along very well with him. We talk about the future a lot, especially travel, school, and children. I certainly don't have any issue with him being the one I grow old with or the last person I have an intimate relationship with. That's exactly what I want. I have lots of interests outside of him. We both have a nice amount of things we can do separate, for our own time, and things we can do together. We can get past things, we have gotten past things. Of course we get mad at each other at times, we have arguments and disagreements. We always work them out, big or small. 

Yes, but at 17 the disagreements are very different than they are at 25, 30, 35...have you thought about this? Worst case scenarios? And his friends are your friends is a RED FLAG. Why doesn't he have his own friends? My FI has friends that he has known since elementary school that he hangs out with, I know them well enough to say hi and make small talk, that's it, but they are his life line. We have mutual friends too (how we met) but all in all, we are separate entities. 

He's switched schools more than anyone else I know, over 10 times if I remember correctly. That combined with not having a phone or Internet or a stable address to write letters make it very hard to maintain a friendship. The best man is the only friend he's been able to keep around, since their parents knew each other. He's been in 3 different schools this year alone. It isn't his fault, he just moves too often to have solid friendships.

emmaaa

TrixieJess said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Darling, you are 17, at 17 I was in love too with a man that I wanted to marry and have babies with. Then we went off to University, well he went to University, I went off to work and party down and "find myself". Then I went to University at 22. 

We kept in contact throughout the years but he is not the person I ultimately ended up with. The person who I was at 17 is very different from the person I am now 20 years later, even 10 years later. 

Can you grow older with your FI? Can you see this being the last person you have an intimate relationship with? Do you have other friends and interests outside of your FI? You don't mention friends, just family. What do they think? Love will not solve all of your problems. I love my FI, there are days I want to murder him in his sleep, but I love him. Can you get past small little things that may come up? What about larger things? Do you talk about future endevours? Travel, school, children? All of these are important to marriage.

My friends are his friends. I have a decent amount of friends, all of which get along very well with him. We talk about the future a lot, especially travel, school, and children. I certainly don't have any issue with him being the one I grow old with or the last person I have an intimate relationship with. That's exactly what I want. I have lots of interests outside of him. We both have a nice amount of things we can do separate, for our own time, and things we can do together. We can get past things, we have gotten past things. Of course we get mad at each other at times, we have arguments and disagreements. We always work them out, big or small. 

Yes, but at 17 the disagreements are very different than they are at 25, 30, 35...have you thought about this? Worst case scenarios? And his friends are your friends is a RED FLAG. Why doesn't he have his own friends? My FI has friends that he has known since elementary school that he hangs out with, I know them well enough to say hi and make small talk, that's it, but they are his life line. We have mutual friends too (how we met) but all in all, we are separate entities. 

I will have to disagree with the bolded a little.

DH and I have the same friends. That is because we were friends, best friends, before we started dating in high school. We can hang out with our group of friends separately and together, no issue. Of course, we each have friends that one of us is closer to.

You can share friends and still  be a separate entity. We have our own jobs, our own hobbies, our own favorite TV shows, our own time that we send alone, etc. We share friends, like many other things, but there are also many things each of us likes or does separately. This is possible.

TrixieJess

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Darling, you are 17, at 17 I was in love too with a man that I wanted to marry and have babies with. Then we went off to University, well he went to University, I went off to work and party down and "find myself". Then I went to University at 22. 

We kept in contact throughout the years but he is not the person I ultimately ended up with. The person who I was at 17 is very different from the person I am now 20 years later, even 10 years later. 

Can you grow older with your FI? Can you see this being the last person you have an intimate relationship with? Do you have other friends and interests outside of your FI? You don't mention friends, just family. What do they think? Love will not solve all of your problems. I love my FI, there are days I want to murder him in his sleep, but I love him. Can you get past small little things that may come up? What about larger things? Do you talk about future endevours? Travel, school, children? All of these are important to marriage.

My friends are his friends. I have a decent amount of friends, all of which get along very well with him. We talk about the future a lot, especially travel, school, and children. I certainly don't have any issue with him being the one I grow old with or the last person I have an intimate relationship with. That's exactly what I want. I have lots of interests outside of him. We both have a nice amount of things we can do separate, for our own time, and things we can do together. We can get past things, we have gotten past things. Of course we get mad at each other at times, we have arguments and disagreements. We always work them out, big or small. 

Yes, but at 17 the disagreements are very different than they are at 25, 30, 35...have you thought about this? Worst case scenarios? And his friends are your friends is a RED FLAG. Why doesn't he have his own friends? My FI has friends that he has known since elementary school that he hangs out with, I know them well enough to say hi and make small talk, that's it, but they are his life line. We have mutual friends too (how we met) but all in all, we are separate entities. 

He's switched schools more than anyone else I know, over 10 times if I remember correctly. That combined with not having a phone or Internet or a stable address to write letters make it very hard to maintain a friendship. The best man is the only friend he's been able to keep around, since their parents knew each other. He's been in 3 different schools this year alone. It isn't his fault, he just moves too often to have solid friendships.

All of this combined with your age, inexperience and wanting to flee your situation all scream RED FLAG!!! Slow the roll. Take a breath and remember that we are not just bitchy old ladies on here trying to harsh your buzz. Most of us remember what it was like to be 17 (well vaguely...) and in love. We are trying to assist you to get the most out of your (VERY) young life and still get what you need and want. Go to school, get an education, travel, meet new people, get new experiences, get out of your comfort zone. Wait a couple of years and then get married. 

redoryx

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

[Deleted User]

redoryx said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

I know that. I say that in reference to the reason I want to get married. If course we have to work together to keep things happy in our marriage. But love is the reason I want to be married in the first place

TrixieJess

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

I know that. I say that in reference to the reason I want to get married. If course we have to work together to keep things happy in our marriage. But love is the reason I want to be married in the first place

This is not a goal. You are not always going to be happy in your relationship. Please do not put this expectation upon yourself or your FI.

[Deleted User]

TrixieJess said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

I know that. I say that in reference to the reason I want to get married. If course we have to work together to keep things happy in our marriage. But love is the reason I want to be married in the first place

This is not a goal. You are not always going to be happy in your relationship. Please do not put this expectation upon yourself or your FI.

I don't mean every second of every day. I know things won't always be happy. Things aren't and never will be perfect. I just mean overall, keeping things on the better side as often as possible.

TrixieJess

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

I know that. I say that in reference to the reason I want to get married. If course we have to work together to keep things happy in our marriage. But love is the reason I want to be married in the first place

This is not a goal. You are not always going to be happy in your relationship. Please do not put this expectation upon yourself or your FI.

I don't mean every second of every day. I know things won't always be happy. Things aren't and never will be perfect. I just mean overall, keeping things on the better side as often as possible.

Again, this is not realistic. Your goal should be to yourself first and your relationship second. You need to take a good hard look at things. I don't think you are being realistic about what your life is going to be like after your wedding. You will be MARRIED. A wedding is one day. Your marriage is for the rest of your life. You will change, he will change. Can you weather these changes? It's not about perfection and happiness, it's about being two separate people who can keep their identities while making a life as a couple together.

[Deleted User]

TrixieJess said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

I know that. I say that in reference to the reason I want to get married. If course we have to work together to keep things happy in our marriage. But love is the reason I want to be married in the first place

This is not a goal. You are not always going to be happy in your relationship. Please do not put this expectation upon yourself or your FI.

I don't mean every second of every day. I know things won't always be happy. Things aren't and never will be perfect. I just mean overall, keeping things on the better side as often as possible.

Again, this is not realistic. Your goal should be to yourself first and your relationship second. You need to take a good hard look at things. I don't think you are being realistic about what your life is going to be like after your wedding. You will be MARRIED. A wedding is one day. Your marriage is for the rest of your life. You will change, he will change. Can you weather these changes? It's not about perfection and happiness, it's about being two separate people who can keep their identities while making a life as a couple together.

It's not realistic to want to be happy as often as possible? And I am perfectly aware planning a wedding and planning a marriage are two completely different things, and I'm doing both.

redoryx

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

I know that. I say that in reference to the reason I want to get married. If course we have to work together to keep things happy in our marriage. But love is the reason I want to be married in the first place

This is not a goal. You are not always going to be happy in your relationship. Please do not put this expectation upon yourself or your FI.

I don't mean every second of every day. I know things won't always be happy. Things aren't and never will be perfect. I just mean overall, keeping things on the better side as often as possible.

Again, this is not realistic. Your goal should be to yourself first and your relationship second. You need to take a good hard look at things. I don't think you are being realistic about what your life is going to be like after your wedding. You will be MARRIED. A wedding is one day. Your marriage is for the rest of your life. You will change, he will change. Can you weather these changes? It's not about perfection and happiness, it's about being two separate people who can keep their identities while making a life as a couple together.

It's not realistic to want to be happy as often as possible? And I am perfectly aware planning a wedding and planning a marriage are two completely different things, and I'm doing both.

No.

Happiness isn't some fixed point on a map that you can drive to. It fluctuates and what makes you -- and your FI -- happy at 17 will change as you get older. 

More to the point, chasing after happiness will only leave you frustrated. You can't make that your goal. You can't wake up one morning and say "I'm going to be happy!" and suddenly you are. It's elusive and constantly changing and once achieved can go away just as quickly. It's not like with, say, a college degree where once you have it then it's yours forever and ever and nobody can take it away from you. 

So instead of choosing Happiness as your goal, instead, like @TrixieJess suggests, you need to focus on other goals that relate to bettering yourself and figuring out who you are and, I promise, who you are at 17 is not who you will be at 27 or 37. And once you figure out who you are then you have to learn to like yourself, which is a completely different task, and it's from achieving that where the rest of it falls into place and happiness as some ultimate end all be all goal stops becoming less important.

[Deleted User]

I never implied that i think happiness is just something you decide to be and *poof* you are. And I'm aware that what makes one happy changes over time. I know happiness can go away just as easily, generally more easily than it can come about. I never said happiness was "some ultimate end all be all goal". I'm saying I'm aware love isn't all it takes for a relationship to work, and that I know I have to do more than love him to not be miserable because of problems. I have to be able to work with him and communicate and a ton of other things. 

TrixieJess

ElizabethandQuinten said:

I never implied that i think happiness is just something you decide to be and *poof* you are. And I'm aware that what makes one happy changes over time. I know happiness can go away just as easily, generally more easily than it can come about. I never said happiness was "some ultimate end all be all goal". I'm saying I'm aware love isn't all it takes for a relationship to work, and that I know I have to do more than love him to not be miserable because of problems. I have to be able to work with him and communicate and a ton of other things. 

The "ton" of other things should be finding out who YOU are as people before you begin a life together as a couple. You have not given any tangible reasons for getting married so quickly. Take your time, learn who you are as a person before you become a wife and possibly a mother. Both of those roles will change you as a person and if you do not have a solid base as a person, you will lose yourself.

RezIpsa

OP, I think you are taking everyone's opinions in good stride. That says a lot about what a good head you have on your shoulders. Here is one more to add to your collection:

While it is possible for people to marry at 17 or 18 and remain happily married, it is very, very unlikely. This could be a great relationship, and it could get ruined by rushing into marriage too quickly. If you guys are right for each other, waiting has no negatives for either of you. Giving your relationship the best chance of success seems like a better decision than stacking the odds against yourselves.

In addition, your comments about this fella revolve around how much he needs you to straighten out his life and make everything better. I'm getting a bit of a savior complex from your posts about your role in this relationship. I'm just some goof on the Internet, and you may have left out some things, but what you are describing is a potential husband who is a passive observer of his own life. 17 is young, but it's not too young for him to have found and carried out solutions to his medication, no food at home, troubled mom, no transport. It sounds like he has chosen not to do so, which indicates to me some serious immaturity. I work with kids every day who solve problems like he has, while effectively parenting younger siblings.

Why not give him some time once he is out of the house to learn to problem solve and execute plans? The way things stand I can't imagine his self esteem is too high. That's not a good place to get married from. Once you have both seen you can survive and thrive on your own, then you can come together from a much stronger place.

I don't mean this to be harsh, but I can sort of see why your family has branded him a loser. Not saying they are right, but I don't see anything in your posts that indicate this is a young man who can be strong for you, solve problems, ease some of the burden off your back from time to time, and generally be an equal partner. Give him the time to become that and your family may look at this whole thing very differently. As things stand, it sounds like you get to fulfill a caretaker role while he continues to be passive.

Like I said, I'm just some random stranger on the Internet and I don't know anything but what you have communicated here. If you chose to go ahead, Mazel tov. To answer your original question, in your case I would elope and do a City Hall/JoP ceremony. The family stuff sounds ugly, only one of you is working, and you will need that 15k as a nest egg and emergency fund. If you guys are still together in five years, throw a kickass anniversary party. Hopefully the family drama will have resolved one way or another by then.

[Deleted User]

TrixieJess said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

I never implied that i think happiness is just something you decide to be and *poof* you are. And I'm aware that what makes one happy changes over time. I know happiness can go away just as easily, generally more easily than it can come about. I never said happiness was "some ultimate end all be all goal". I'm saying I'm aware love isn't all it takes for a relationship to work, and that I know I have to do more than love him to not be miserable because of problems. I have to be able to work with him and communicate and a ton of other things. 

The "ton" of other things should be finding out who YOU are as people before you begin a life together as a couple. You have not given any tangible reasons for getting married so quickly. Take your time, learn who you are as a person before you become a wife and possibly a mother. Both of those roles will change you as a person and if you do not have a solid base as a person, you will lose yourself.

I know who I am and what I believe in. I can't speak for him on that, that's up to him to decide. But I know who I am.

MyNameIsNot

RezIpsa said:

OP, I think you are taking everyone's opinions in good stride. That says a lot about what a good head you have on your shoulders. Here is one more to add to your collection:

While it is possible for people to marry at 17 or 18 and remain happily married, it is very, very unlikely. This could be a great relationship, and it could get ruined by rushing into marriage too quickly. If you guys are right for each other, waiting has no negatives for either of you. Giving your relationship the best chance of success seems like a better decision than stacking the odds against yourselves.

In addition, your comments about this fella revolve around how much he needs you to straighten out his life and make everything better. I'm getting a bit of a savior complex from your posts about your role in this relationship. I'm just some goof on the Internet, and you may have left out some things, but what you are describing is a potential husband who is a passive observer of his own life. 17 is young, but it's not too young for him to have found and carried out solutions to his medication, no food at home, troubled mom, no transport. It sounds like he has chosen not to do so, which indicates to me some serious immaturity. I work with kids every day who solve problems like he has, while effectively parenting younger siblings.

Why not give him some time once he is out of the house to learn to problem solve and execute plans? The way things stand I can't imagine his self esteem is too high. That's not a good place to get married from. Once you have both seen you can survive and thrive on your own, then you can come together from a much stronger place.

I don't mean this to be harsh, but I can sort of see why your family has branded him a loser. Not saying they are right, but I don't see anything in your posts that indicate this is a young man who can be strong for you, solve problems, ease some of the burden off your back from time to time, and generally be an equal partner. Give him the time to become that and your family may look at this whole thing very differently. As things stand, it sounds like you get to fulfill a caretaker role while he continues to be passive.

Like I said, I'm just some random stranger on the Internet and I don't know anything but what you have communicated here. If you chose to go ahead, Mazel tov. To answer your original question, in your case I would elope and do a City Hall/JoP ceremony. The family stuff sounds ugly, only one of you is working, and you will need that 15k as a nest egg and emergency fund. If you guys are still together in five years, throw a kickass anniversary party. Hopefully the family drama will have resolved one way or another by then.

I agree with the bolded.  It sounds like he loves you, and he wants what's best, but it really doesn't sound like he is ready to be a mature, equal partner. 

I don't necessarily think that he's any less mature than the typical 17 year old, but it certainly sounds like he would be dependent on you. That will sabotage your relationship. He needs the opportunity to learn to take care of himself before he is ready to marry you. 

[Deleted User]

RezIpsa said:

OP, I think you are taking everyone's opinions in good stride. That says a lot about what a good head you have on your shoulders. Here is one more to add to your collection:

While it is possible for people to marry at 17 or 18 and remain happily married, it is very, very unlikely. This could be a great relationship, and it could get ruined by rushing into marriage too quickly. If you guys are right for each other, waiting has no negatives for either of you. Giving your relationship the best chance of success seems like a better decision than stacking the odds against yourselves.

In addition, your comments about this fella revolve around how much he needs you to straighten out his life and make everything better. I'm getting a bit of a savior complex from your posts about your role in this relationship. I'm just some goof on the Internet, and you may have left out some things, but what you are describing is a potential husband who is a passive observer of his own life. 17 is young, but it's not too young for him to have found and carried out solutions to his medication, no food at home, troubled mom, no transport. It sounds like he has chosen not to do so, which indicates to me some serious immaturity. I work with kids every day who solve problems like he has, while effectively parenting younger siblings.

Why not give him some time once he is out of the house to learn to problem solve and execute plans? The way things stand I can't imagine his self esteem is too high. That's not a good place to get married from. Once you have both seen you can survive and thrive on your own, then you can come together from a much stronger place.

I don't mean this to be harsh, but I can sort of see why your family has branded him a loser. Not saying they are right, but I don't see anything in your posts that indicate this is a young man who can be strong for you, solve problems, ease some of the burden off your back from time to time, and generally be an equal partner. Give him the time to become that and your family may look at this whole thing very differently. As things stand, it sounds like you get to fulfill a caretaker role while he continues to be passive.

Like I said, I'm just some random stranger on the Internet and I don't know anything but what you have communicated here. If you chose to go ahead, Mazel tov. To answer your original question, in your case I would elope and do a City Hall/JoP ceremony. The family stuff sounds ugly, only one of you is working, and you will need that 15k as a nest egg and emergency fund. If you guys are still together in five years, throw a kickass anniversary party. Hopefully the family drama will have resolved one way or another by then.

We often try to come up with solutions to his problems. There are some we've thought of, but none that are really preferable. I really don't see what he could do for himself considering what I know about how things work at his house. It's a bad situation. And I ask him often that very thing, about having a savior complex. Since we first started dating I was nervous about that developing without me noticing. I really don't view him as any lesser than me, or as someone who is weak and needs saving. Does it really sound that way? And my grandpa has been calling him a loser since before he knew anything more than his first name, that he's native American, and had the impression that I liked him. I can guarantee his willingness to do for himself has nothing to do with how grandpa sees him.

RezIpsa

"we come up with solutions", "we've thought..."

Yeah. This is enmeshed behavior. Go to college and see how he fares without you there to provide the motivation to solve his life problems. He has and does have a lot of options. Being a grown up means he chooses one and pursues it and sees how it goes.

Adults don't problem solve in each other's lives. They are there to support their partner in pursuing their solutions and dreams. Lots of times that means just listening.

Based on what you are saying here, separating while you go to college and he builds a life independently is the best thing you can do to make sure you guys have a healthy and lasting relationship.,

southernbelle0915

redoryx said:

ElizabethandQuinten said:

KatWAG said:

I have asked 3+ times about why the OP is rushing to get married. The only answer I got was "we are in love!"

Well what reasons do older people give, generally? We've thought things through and discussed every difficult situation we could think of and then some. We love each other and feel that the timing is good for us. Unless you're in an arranged marriage, isn't love sort of the main part of wanting to get married?

Yes: people get married because they are in love.

But if a couple wants to stay married, love isn't enough.

So much this.

Admitting I barely have the skills now to effectively communicate and problem solve (actual, adult problems) is not something I could have done at 17. Also, at 17 I was in love, for sure marrying my boyfriend no matter what. Six or so semi-serious to serious relationships and 10 years later, I got married to the person I actually want to be with forever.

OP, no one is saying it CANT work for y'all. But the whole point is that if you're going to be together forever, why rush it? You're in high school for god's sake. Worry about exams and going out to lunch, and sneaking out, and TPing houses, and going to the movies, and getting ice cream, and parties...

flantastic

RezIpsa said:

"we come up with solutions", "we've thought..."

Yeah. This is enmeshed behavior. Go to college and see how he fares without you there to provide the motivation to solve his life problems. He has and does have a lot of options. Being a grown up means he chooses one and pursues it and sees how it goes.

Adults don't problem solve in each other's lives. They are there to support their partner in pursuing their solutions and dreams. Lots of times that means just listening.

Based on what you are saying here, separating while you go to college and he builds a life independently is the best thing you can do to make sure you guys have a healthy and lasting relationship.,

This. I know you think your joint approach to all problems makes you a great team, but it really just means your FI depends on you, which is not the formula for personal or relationship growth.

I was not going to marry my H until I knew he could function as an adult, on his own, without me. If I thought being without me (either having me living long-distance or not being in a relationship with me and having me as an emotional crutch) would cause his life to fall apart, then it wouldn't have been a good time to plan a life together - instead, I could make the decision to ride that out until he matured or to break up. However, if it was clear that he could be his own person, then we could come to a marriage as equal partners. That equal partnership is just as important for the long haul as the being in love bit.

redoryx

RezIpsa said:

"we come up with solutions", "we've thought..."

Yeah. This is enmeshed behavior. Go to college and see how he fares without you there to provide the motivation to solve his life problems. He has and does have a lot of options. Being a grown up means he chooses one and pursues it and sees how it goes.

Adults don't problem solve in each other's lives. They are there to support their partner in pursuing their solutions and dreams. Lots of times that means just listening.

Based on what you are saying here, separating while you go to college and he builds a life independently is the best thing you can do to make sure you guys have a healthy and lasting relationship.,

This. I know you think your joint approach to all problems makes you a great team, but it really just means your FI depends on you, which is not the formula for personal or relationship growth.

I was not going to marry my H until I knew he could function as an adult, on his own, without me. If I thought being without me (either having me living long-distance or not being in a relationship with me and having me as an emotional crutch) would cause his life to fall apart, then it wouldn't have been a good time to plan a life together - instead, I could make the decision to ride that out until he matured or to break up. However, if it was clear that he could be his own person, then we could come to a marriage as equal partners. That equal partnership is just as important for the long haul as the being in love bit.

Yes, this reads as co-dependency and having been in that situation from both sides of the equation, it's not a good thing mentally or emotionally and it's definitely not a good time to legally bind yourself to another person for life. 

You guys are 17. You have, literally, your whole lives ahead of you and if you're meant to be together you will. I know that sounds stupid and cliched, but it's true. My SO and I went to high-school together. We didn't date, but we had mutual friends and were involved in the same activities. Flash-forward about 10 years and he and I went out a couple times a few years ago but he decided it wasn't right. 

When we decided to try dating again, we both knew right away that this was completely different and unlike anything either of us had had before in a previous relationship. It amuses me now to think that I went through decades of heartache and The Guy was right there when I was a teenager, but it wasn't the right time for us then and had 16 RedOryx dated him it wouldn't have been a good situation because, sure, I thought I knew who I was but I had no fucking idea. Not in the long term, rest of your life kind of way. A couple months in he apologized for not sticking it through when we went out a few years ago, but I said that was unnecessary because we both had shit we had to work out first. During that time I dated other guys and had to go through those experiences to get to that place where I am now to be able to come to this relationship fully and completely as my own self and I imagine he had to do whatever he had to do during that time, too. 

levioosa

ElizabethandQuinten said:

RezIpsa said:

OP, I think you are taking everyone's opinions in good stride. That says a lot about what a good head you have on your shoulders. Here is one more to add to your collection:

While it is possible for people to marry at 17 or 18 and remain happily married, it is very, very unlikely. This could be a great relationship, and it could get ruined by rushing into marriage too quickly. If you guys are right for each other, waiting has no negatives for either of you. Giving your relationship the best chance of success seems like a better decision than stacking the odds against yourselves.

In addition, your comments about this fella revolve around how much he needs you to straighten out his life and make everything better. I'm getting a bit of a savior complex from your posts about your role in this relationship. I'm just some goof on the Internet, and you may have left out some things, but what you are describing is a potential husband who is a passive observer of his own life. 17 is young, but it's not too young for him to have found and carried out solutions to his medication, no food at home, troubled mom, no transport. It sounds like he has chosen not to do so, which indicates to me some serious immaturity. I work with kids every day who solve problems like he has, while effectively parenting younger siblings.

Why not give him some time once he is out of the house to learn to problem solve and execute plans? The way things stand I can't imagine his self esteem is too high. That's not a good place to get married from. Once you have both seen you can survive and thrive on your own, then you can come together from a much stronger place.

I don't mean this to be harsh, but I can sort of see why your family has branded him a loser. Not saying they are right, but I don't see anything in your posts that indicate this is a young man who can be strong for you, solve problems, ease some of the burden off your back from time to time, and generally be an equal partner. Give him the time to become that and your family may look at this whole thing very differently. As things stand, it sounds like you get to fulfill a caretaker role while he continues to be passive.

Like I said, I'm just some random stranger on the Internet and I don't know anything but what you have communicated here. If you chose to go ahead, Mazel tov. To answer your original question, in your case I would elope and do a City Hall/JoP ceremony. The family stuff sounds ugly, only one of you is working, and you will need that 15k as a nest egg and emergency fund. If you guys are still together in five years, throw a kickass anniversary party. Hopefully the family drama will have resolved one way or another by then.

We often try to come up with solutions to his problems. There are some we've thought of, but none that are really preferable. I really don't see what he could do for himself considering what I know about how things work at his house. It's a bad situation. And I ask him often that very thing, about having a savior complex. Since we first started dating I was nervous about that developing without me noticing. I really don't view him as any lesser than me, or as someone who is weak and needs saving. Does it really sound that way? And my grandpa has been calling him a loser since before he knew anything more than his first name, that he's native American, and had the impression that I liked him. I can guarantee his willingness to do for himself has nothing to do with how grandpa sees him.

OP, this isn't maturity like you think it is--it is codependency.  Your FI does have the power to change these things, even at seventeen.  It's great that you talk about it, but unless he makes the choice to change things in his life, you are not ready for marriage.  Because he can change his situation.  And it speaks to you being too young to marry that he doesn't see it.  I don't think he's a loser, I just think he's a seventeen year old boy. 

I was ready to get married at 17.  I'm so glad I didn't.  I am not the same person I was at 17.  I am so much stronger and wiser.  There is everything to gain by waiting and growing into stronger and wiser individuals.  A marriage cannot work between two individuals who are not fully invested and grounded in themselves.  It cannot work if one partner is so unequally stronger than the other.  The center cannot hold. 

It might work out for you guys, but your odds will be improved a hundred fold if you wait, gain life experience, and become solid in who you are as individuals.  Because I guarantee that you are not the same person now that you will be in ten years, and the challenges you are dealing with now will be so much different than those you encounter in ten years.  Why wouldn't you want to set yourself up for success? 

STARMOON44

Wanting to take care of someone is a terrible reason to get married. It sounds like you feel bad his mom sucks do you're going to be the better mommy. That's not a good foundation for a marriage.

thespeshulestsnowflake

STARMOON44 said:

Wanting to take care of someone is a terrible reason to get married. It sounds like you feel bad his mom sucks do you're going to be the better mommy. That's not a good foundation for a marriage.

This. It does not sound like you view each other as equals in the relationship and that you need to save him.

redoryx

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

STARMOON44 said:

Wanting to take care of someone is a terrible reason to get married. It sounds like you feel bad his mom sucks do you're going to be the better mommy. That's not a good foundation for a marriage.

This. It does not sound like you view each other as equals in the relationship and that you need to save him.

Yes. Plus, sometimes when it seems like we're supporting someone we're actually enabling them.

[Deleted User]

Some of our arguments have been based around me trying to have him take more responsibilities in his life, and he always comes around. I've told him many many times that I'm not his mom and that I refuse to play that role. I don't view him as someone that needs saving, or someone that should be dependent on me.  I want him to be an independent adult, and I'm certainly not marrying him to take care of him like he's a little kid. 

RezIpsa

It's great that you guys talk about things, especially things that are difficult. Your post definitely illuminates the problem though.

Think about it. You are having multiple arguments over trying to get him to take more responsibility in his life (per your post). That's not a conversation you have once with a partner who is ready for marriage because by definition they act responsibly and independently in running their life. You say he "always comes around", but the fact that you have multiple arguments about the same basic subject make it clear that that is either a temporary change made in response to your prodding, or a limited change made in response to your prodding. Either way, it indicates someone who is not mature enough for marriage yet.

If you have to tell someone many, many times you aren't their mom that is a big fat red flag that they default to treating you as mom. That's codependance, it's unhealthy, and it will probably make you both miserable and destroy your relationship.

People don't change depending on someone else's wants. They change based on their own personal growth and their own decision to do so. He is showing you clearly that he isn't an independent adult yet, you just aren't listening to his behavior. Multiple discussions on the subject should make it plain that independent adult behavior is not in his wheelhouse yet.

You still haven't answered the most important question-why rush? You guys can live together, create powers of attorney, love each other, and pursue your goals. People don't get married (or shouldn't) solely because they love each other. It is necessary but not sufficient. Because "I love him" isn't enough, I hope there is some answer as to why marriage now is necessary.

I'm sorry to go on and on. Im sure it sounds like a lecture by someone who doesn't know your whole situation. You seem like a great person with a really bright future, and he seems like a nice young man. It would be a shame to slow either of you down with a rushed first marriage (you guys were only dating for five months when you got engaged, right?) and potentially a divorce. It's all just totally unnecessary, and it could really Impact both of you negatively for the rest of your lives.