What would you have done?

STARMOON44

If you want to call an emotion that kept you up all night righteous indignation at objectively horrible people, fine. But I think it's more likely the unpleasant feeling of helplessness we all have when our loved ones are hurting and we can't help. Anger at total strangers isn't going to get you far.

climbingsingle

STARMOON44 said:

If you want to call an emotion that kept you up all night righteous indignation at objectively horrible people, fine. But I think it's more likely the unpleasant feeling of helplessness we all have when our loved ones are hurting and we can't help. Anger at total strangers isn't going to get you far.

I'm angry at the actions of people that could have handled a situation better. Obviously I know nothing about these people. I found what occurred to be shocking. And I would have done things differently.

This isn't anger I'm holding on to forever. I'm not actively seeking these people out.

climbingsingle

scribe95 said:

Earlier upthread someone called the people idiots, which I consider harsh. I realize it's your grandmother and you are super upset but you weren't there either. I would focus on her health and move on. Being mad at random people for following what your grandmother wanted is a bit odd. I mean if anyone you should be mad at your grandmother.

I hope you're joking with this nonsense.

VulgarGirl

scribe95 said:

Earlier upthread someone called the people idiots, which I consider harsh. I realize it's your grandmother and you are super upset but you weren't there either. I would focus on her health and move on. Being mad at random people for following what your grandmother wanted is a bit odd. I mean if anyone you should be mad at your grandmother.

For....falling? 

emmaaa

I saw where you said that the sotre manager came out to assist. In that case, it is 100% his responsible to call an ambulance and file an accident report. If not to help your grandmother, then to at least cover his own ass.

beethery

MagicInk said:

scribe95 said:

Earlier upthread someone called the people idiots, which I consider harsh. I realize it's your grandmother and you are super upset but you weren't there either. I would focus on her health and move on. Being mad at random people for following what your grandmother wanted is a bit odd. I mean if anyone you should be mad at your grandmother.

For....falling? 

Seriously.

climbingsingle

The Life Alert won't work outside the home. At least that is what they told her.

To me, it's common sense to not move an elderly person that has fallen. Or really, most people that have a violent fall.

But you're right. I should be angry at my grandma. What a jerk she is.

badbnagdway

I very recently had an ambulance sent for a stranger. She was a teenage girl who had flipped her car. She got out, somehow, and appeared totally fine. She refused all help, even a jacket in the freezing cold. If I would have asked if she needed an ambulance, she would have said no. The paramedics actually had to talk her into being examined at all when they got there. But I'm glad I told 911 I wanted them to send the ambulance, you can't tell by looking at someone whether they have a concussion or internal damage, etc. 

So, if I saw an older woman who had fallen and couldn't get up on her own steam, I can't say for sure, but I do think I would probably not listen to her, and I would probably tell her she needed to be checked out. 

At the same time, these folks listened to her specific request. The person you should be mad at, frankly, and I think this is why you are feeling so emotional about it, is your beloved and stubborn grandmother. I think you need to tell her how scared for her this made you, and please to never never refuse help like that again. 

jenna8984

climbingwife said:

The Life Alert won't work outside the home. At least that is what they told her.

To me, it's common sense to not move an elderly person that has fallen. Or really, most people that have a violent fall.

But you're right. I should be angry at my grandma. What a jerk she is.

In @scribe95 's defense, I think she meant be mad at your grandmother for saying "I'm fine!" and not "this really hurts, please call an ambulance/ my daughter/ stay with me/ etc".

Not that I agree with that, I certainly wouldn't be mad at her, but just saying I see where scribe was going with that.

ashley8918

scribe95 said:

Earlier upthread someone called the people idiots, which I consider harsh. I realize it's your grandmother and you are super upset but you weren't there either. I would focus on her health and move on. Being mad at random people for following what your grandmother wanted is a bit odd. I mean if anyone you should be mad at your grandmother.

HOW DARE SHE FALL!

KatieinBkln

scribe95 said:

I think there is some displaced anger here. Your grandmother probably shouldn't have driven (you even said she didn't need to and said she wasn't going anywhere); turned away an ambulance when she needed it and didn't use her life alert. She made some mistakes but you are only mad at the people who tried to help her (inadequately in your opinion).

Me, I generally have enough anger inside my shriveled heart for more than one person at a time.

I never know quite what to do with the "here's how you should feel and who you should feel it at" portion of these kinds of threads. 

ashley8918

KatieinBkln said:

I think there is some displaced anger here. Your grandmother probably shouldn't have driven (you even said she didn't need to and said she wasn't going anywhere); turned away an ambulance when she needed it and didn't use her life alert. She made some mistakes but you are only mad at the people who tried to help her (inadequately in your opinion).

Me, I generally have enough anger inside my shriveled heart for more than one person at a time.

I never know quite what to do with the "here's how you should feel and who you should feel it at" portion of these kinds of threads. 

I suggest disregarding it entirely since it doesn't make any god damned sense.

theartistformerlyknownas

KatieinBkln said:

scribe95 said:

I think there is some displaced anger here. Your grandmother probably shouldn't have driven (you even said she didn't need to and said she wasn't going anywhere); turned away an ambulance when she needed it and didn't use her life alert. She made some mistakes but you are only mad at the people who tried to help her (inadequately in your opinion).

Me, I generally have enough anger inside my shriveled heart for more than one person at a time.

I never know quite what to do with the "here's how you should feel and who you should feel it at" portion of these kinds of threads. 

WE ARE ANGRY KNOTTIES, WE DON'T HAVE FEELINGS!

badbnagdway

jenna8984 said:

climbingwife said:

The Life Alert won't work outside the home. At least that is what they told her.

To me, it's common sense to not move an elderly person that has fallen. Or really, most people that have a violent fall.

But you're right. I should be angry at my grandma. What a jerk she is.

In @scribe95 's defense, I think she meant be mad at your grandmother for saying "I'm fine!" and not "this really hurts, please call an ambulance/ my daughter/ stay with me/ etc".

Not that I agree with that, I certainly wouldn't be mad at her, but just saying I see where scribe was going with that.

Honestly I would be pretty mad and frustrated with any loved one who stubbornly refused help and endangered their own health and life this way. It would pass, for sure, I just think it would be a really awful mix of emotions. 

ashley8918

lolo883 said:

KatieinBkln said:

scribe95 said:

I think there is some displaced anger here. Your grandmother probably shouldn't have driven (you even said she didn't need to and said she wasn't going anywhere); turned away an ambulance when she needed it and didn't use her life alert. She made some mistakes but you are only mad at the people who tried to help her (inadequately in your opinion).

Me, I generally have enough anger inside my shriveled heart for more than one person at a time.

I never know quite what to do with the "here's how you should feel and who you should feel it at" portion of these kinds of threads. 

WE ARE ANGRY KNOTTIES, WE DON'T HAVE FEELINGS!

VulgarGirl

scribe95 said:

I never said be mad at her for falling. I said be mad at her for stubbornly refusing medical treatment that she clearly needed. But instead of focusing on that we are going after random people for not doing enough. I find that stunning. 

A lot of elderly people (and hell people in general, myself included) don't like to seem weak or invalid. 

In stead of just saying "Ok, you cool? Lemme get you in your car, bye nice lady!", they could've just talked with her. "Are you sure you're ok? You seem to be having trouble standing. Is there anyone I can call for you? I don't want you to hurt yourself". It's not saying "I'm call 911, shut the fuck up, you have no say in the matter!", it's talking with someone until they're comfortable saying "Yes, I really do need help". 

VulgarGirl

The Life Alert won't work outside the home. At least that is what they told her.

To me, it's common sense to not move an elderly person that has fallen. Or really, most people that have a violent fall.

But you're right. I should be angry at my grandma. What a jerk she is.

Well that's fucking stupid. What if she went out late at night and there was no one around to help her?

Fucking hell Life Alert get on this shit.

My anger is placed at Life Alert right now. If this is an improper place to direct my anger please point in the correct direction to direct my anger. And also let me know the amount of anger I am to feel and how to express it within the anger allowance terms.

hellosweetie1015

I'm sorry but I don't feel my judgment of these people is harsh. They should not have moved her. They could have injured her more.
And when they did move her and she could neither stand nor walk, they shouldn't have let her drive away.

She is old and frail. They should have called 911 to let medically trained people determine if she was ok.

You're allowed to feel as you do, whether or not some people think it's misplaced. Although, frankly, think about your grandmother lying in the snow and ice in the middle of a freezing-cold parking lot waiting on an ambulance or your mother or you (had the good Samaritans called anyone). Would you rather her have laid there until someone got there? Ambulances can take a long time to get where they need to go, even with their screamy sirens. Civilian vehicles can take even longer - they don't have sirens screaming "GET THE FUCK OUTTA MY WAY!!!!" I'd really want someone to risk the potential damage of moving her over the more serious damage being cold could work on an already frail elderly lady.

@scribe95 - yeah, I don't think it's okay to be angry at the grandmother. Climbing's grandmother fell over. Everyone did what they thought was best. Grandma and Samaritans included.

ETA Except the grocery store manager. S/he probably has SOPs and didn't follow them. I'd be LIVID at him/her.

ashley8918

scribe95 said:

MagicInk said:

I never said be mad at her for falling. I said be mad at her for stubbornly refusing medical treatment that she clearly needed. But instead of focusing on that we are going after random people for not doing enough. I find that stunning. 

A lot of elderly people (and hell people in general, myself included) don't like to seem weak or invalid. 

In stead of just saying "Ok, you cool? Lemme get you in your car, bye nice lady!", they could've just talked with her. "Are you sure you're ok? You seem to be having trouble standing. Is there anyone I can call for you? I don't want you to hurt yourself". It's not saying "I'm call 911, shut the fuck up, you have no say in the matter!", it's talking with someone until they're comfortable saying "Yes, I really do need help". 

And you have no idea that they didn't say all those things. No one on here does.

Except that i'm pretty sure @climbingwife DOES know, on account of this being her grandma...

littlemushroom

climbingwife said:

I'm sorry but I don't feel my judgment of these people is harsh. They should not have moved her. They could have injured her more.
And when they did move her and she could neither stand nor walk, they shouldn't have let her drive away.

She is old and frail. They should have called 911 to let medically trained people determine if she was ok.

I am genuinely curious how strangers could have legally made sure she didn't leave/drive away. Take her keys? Stand in front of her car? That sounds like a recipe for disaster. How far should strangers go to force someone to do something they don't want to do?

Your grandma sounds like a tough cookie, who has her wits about her. Do you really want people to start ignoring what she says on the sole basis she is old and the random person thinks they know better? Because that is all the strangers had to go on.

As for helping her up, my 92 year old grandma could not get up from the ground by herself even uninjured. That is especially true on snowy/icy ground. If she said she was OK and just needed help getting up, I can certainly understand helping her up. I would consider that the fact that she still has a drivers license and vehicle to use means she is also perfectly capable of assessing her own condition and if she needs medical attention.

I don't think there is a good way for strangers to force any person to stay someplace in order to receive medical attention they don't want. It was a horrible situation all around. Strangers did what they could and thought was best. I hope your grandma's recovery goes well.

ashley8918

She wasn't there either!

And i'm sure she didn't talk to her grandma. Nope. Definitely not.

photokitty

It's not common sense to not move an elderly person when they fall. It's human nature to help hem up, especially bc they typically are asking you to help them up. I know not to more an older person who fell, but considered helping her up when my mom and I found my great aunt on the floor. She was freaking out and panicking, she was begging us to help her up.

I will give you that the grocery store manager did screw up. He should have called for an ambulance, since the store would probably be liable. 

However you anger towards these customers who helped her is grossly misplaced.

The truth is, lots of people made mistakes, your grandma included -  she went out in severe weather without it being absolutely necessary and told your mom she was staying home. BUT she is an adult and she is allowed to make her own decisions, regardless of if they are wise or you agree with them - the same way she decided she did not want an ambulance called. She's an adult, she gets to decide. Being older and frail doesn't take that right away from you.

No one said you should blame your grandma for falling, you are looking to pick a fight.

The store manager royally screwed up and I would get an attorney to deal with the grocery store. He is only person involved in this story that was an idiot or a jerk - and corporate is going to feel the same way. 

If this story was about a woman in her 30 would everyone feel like the strangers would have the right to force the woman to wait for an ambulance? No. Just because someone is older doesn't mean others get to make their decisions for them. She has the right to decide for herself.

You are upset, which is understandable. But your emotions would be better placed moving forward - how do you prevent this from happening again. What can you do to help her recover.

And by all means go after the store manager, bc it was his job to help your grandma. The other people just did what they could.

KatieinBkln

scribe95 said:

I never said be mad at her for falling. I said be mad at her for stubbornly refusing medical treatment that she clearly needed. But instead of focusing on that we are going after random people for not doing enough. I find that stunning. 

I mean...for just a minute let's recall that ultimately, we're talking about hypothetical scenarios and essentially jerking off on an internet forum. No one is "going after" anyone in any real sense here.

climbingsingle

My grandma would not have been able to get into the car by herself.

She could not even stand. She couldn't move.

ashley8918

scribe95 said:

Maybe she has talked to her grandmother. Maybe she is getting it second hand from her mom. Either. way it's still only getting one side of the story. If she was talking fine, not crying, just saying I just need help up that's way different than writhing on the ground in pain, crying.

I'm going to continue to defend the actions of people who were just trying to help and now some are condemning for not helping enough. Especially when none of us were there to see what exactly happened.

You should probably just delete this thread so that those poor souls dont get CONDEMNED anymore. JFC

MyNameIsNot

badbnagdway said:

jenna8984 said:

climbingwife said:

The Life Alert won't work outside the home. At least that is what they told her.

To me, it's common sense to not move an elderly person that has fallen. Or really, most people that have a violent fall.

But you're right. I should be angry at my grandma. What a jerk she is.

In @scribe95 's defense, I think she meant be mad at your grandmother for saying "I'm fine!" and not "this really hurts, please call an ambulance/ my daughter/ stay with me/ etc".

Not that I agree with that, I certainly wouldn't be mad at her, but just saying I see where scribe was going with that.

Honestly I would be pretty mad and frustrated with any loved one who stubbornly refused help and endangered their own health and life this way. It would pass, for sure, I just think it would be a really awful mix of emotions. 

This. When my 87 year old granny fell down her basement stairs, I was angry with her for stubbornly insisting that she could still use the stairs, angry at my dad and his brother for letting her continue to live alone in a house with stairs, angry at my cousin who didn't fix the no-slip on her stairs, and so on. 

Eventually, I realized that I was really just mad at the situation. It was an accident, and it wasn't anyone's fault. Sure, there were things that could have been done better, but I was really just emotional that granny was getting older and that I was losing her.  

climbingsingle

Listen, I'm not a ranting and raving maniac right now. I'm not driving to the grocery store to scream at a manager. I'm upset and I wish things were handled differently. I'm siting here with my grandma and it hurts to see her in pain. That's all.

[Deleted User]

VulgarGirl

climbingwife said:

Listen, I'm not a ranting and raving maniac right now. I'm not driving to the grocery store to scream at a manager. I'm upset and I wish things were handled differently. I'm siting here with my grandma and it hurts to see her in pain. That's all.

No Climbing. We all know exactly what you're doing. You're training a fire breathing dragon to go burn the fucking store to the ground then hunt down all those people, aren't you? Come on, just admit you have a fire breathing dragon.

chibiyui

The only person whose truly at any kind of unequivocal fault here is the store manager. 

We have people who fall all the time on the escalator at work. Sometimes it's because they take walkers or shopping carts on the escalator instead of taking the elevator, sometimes they just fall. As employees, we press the escalator emergency stop and wait for security. Every now and then there's a person around with medical training that assists them. Nearly everyone will scream that they need help getting up, etc, but we're not to touch them unless told by security or EMT's. Sometimes this involves telling other customers to get the fuck out of the way for the professionals. 

I get anxious when this happens, and stay far away. I don't react well in crises situations. So, I'd like to say I would have made sure that Grandma is okay, but I'm not a medical professional. If someone is telling me they're okay, I kinda have to take them at their word. Especially if someone who IS supposed to handle this (grocery store manager) is there. 

Plenty of people would have walked by. I'm not sure why not giving enough help is worthy of disdain here. Be mad the the store manager, not the random passerbyers who tried to help.