Feminism

drunkenwitch

princessofgenovia said:

FiancB said:

The fat dumb guy/nagging but hot wife sitcom thing has always bugged me so much. 

I have always hated that. I was bitching about it to one of my friends and she goes "Well now you have Mike and Molly". Ok no. No that is not the same at all. Yes we have an overweight female lead, shocking. But she didn't land Channing Tatum. She landed an overweight male lead, which is nothing new.

It has been drilled into me that men want hot chick, deserve hot chicks, and will get hot chicks. All men. No matter what they look like. And women, will be thrilled that anyone at all is willing to date them. If he doesn't beat you or cheat on you, he's a fucking winner and you better blow him every night.

Well of course because when you're packin a vaj there's nothing worse than being single. You should be grateful that any man wants you.

Even typing that sarcastically was painful.

flbride2015

novella1186 said:

yogapants said:

I work for a university but my department exists to provide lab space and business mentoring for start-up biotech companies. I work with a lot of smart people, men and women. This exchange just happened:

Older man walks in, grumpy faced, growls at me that he's here to see Dr. [Persian Name]. She happens to be standing in the lobby, so I glance her way and she walks over and says, "You must be Dr. [whatever, standard white American name]!"

He barely looks at her and nods. And then she goes, "Oh, I'm Dr. [Persian Name]." His entire demeanor changes when he realizes that the doctor he's here to see is this woman standing in front of him, and this isn't just some pesky assistant. He couldn't tell from her first name since it was foreign to him, and he assumed that the lead on this project would be male.

I remember when I was a kid, people always used to tell this "riddle": A man and his son were in a car accident. The man died on impact. The son was rushed into an OR. The surgeon took one look at him and said, "I can't operate, this is my son." How is that possible? 

It ALWAYS stumped people. I can't even tell you how many times I heard it and every time, people were stumped. 

Of course the answer is that the surgeon is the boy's mother. The surgeon is a woman. What a tough riddle. 

What does it say about me that I just assumed it was a gay couple?

flbride2015

littlepep said:

novella1186 said:

levioosa said:

I watched Silent Hill for the first time last night.  As per usual, I had to look up all of the trivia about the movie.  This was under the trivia section on IMDB:

"In the original script, there were only female characters.  After submitting this, the script was returned to Christophe Gans with a memo saying 'there are no men!' Sean Bean's character was added and the script was approved."

God forbid there be a movie with all female leads!  We have to have a dick in there somewhere, otherwise it's not even worth making! 

Remember this? 

The best part is, the original was made in 1939. No men in the cast. Silent Hill is less progressive than a movie made in 1939 

Ugh.  Just. Ugh.

Oh, and I remember the other thing that made me ragey last night. 

One of my FB friends posted this:



I haven't decided how I feel about Hilary, but when I do, it's going to be based on her actual track record and political stances.  It really bothered me that the shirt simultaneously was slut shaming and discounting who she is as a person by reducing her to someone's wife (not that being a wife is a bad thing, but this made it a derogatory thing), and that somehow it's her fault her husband cheated.  Shitty all around. 

Yeah I'm not ok with this. If you don't like her politics that's perfectly fine. But don't slam her for other nonsense. It's the same with Obama. If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but don't even with that "He's not even American; he's a Muslim terrorist" BS. 

My friend made a really great FB post the other day: 

"The elections are over a year and a half away and it's getting hectic already. Regardless of political alignment, do you really believe that the other party is "evil" or "out to destroy" America? I suppose you might believe that, but think how unreasonable that seems. They just disagree with you. Chances are it's not personal or malevolent. One of the most dangerous things facing America these days is the inability of people to engage in civil, constructive discourse. Open your mind to the values and background of other people and look for common ground. Resist the urge to get emotional. It's the only way anything will get done. Plus also keep that crap off my feed."

That's a great post! I should post something similar.

Someone I know posted a picture of a guy wearing a "Bill for First Lady 2016" t-shirt. He's a Hillary fan. One of his friends commented that women couldn't be president. Not just Hillary, women in general. He said women were getting better at some things but president wasn't one of them.

 

flbride2015

princessofgenovia said:

.

novella1186 said:

yogapants said:

I work for a university but my department exists to provide lab space and business mentoring for start-up biotech companies. I work with a lot of smart people, men and women. This exchange just happened:

Older man walks in, grumpy faced, growls at me that he's here to see Dr. [Persian Name]. She happens to be standing in the lobby, so I glance her way and she walks over and says, "You must be Dr. [whatever, standard white American name]!"

He barely looks at her and nods. And then she goes, "Oh, I'm Dr. [Persian Name]." His entire demeanor changes when he realizes that the doctor he's here to see is this woman standing in front of him, and this isn't just some pesky assistant. He couldn't tell from her first name since it was foreign to him, and he assumed that the lead on this project would be male.

I remember when I was a kid, people always used to tell this "riddle": A man and his son were in a car accident. The man died on impact. The son was rushed into an OR. The surgeon took one look at him and said, "I can't operate, this is my son." How is that possible? 

It ALWAYS stumped people. I can't even tell you how many times I heard it and every time, people were stumped. 

Of course the answer is that the surgeon is the boy's mother. The surgeon is a woman. What a tough riddle. 

When I was in school our teacher told us that riddle as an example of gender bias. So she asks if we can figure it out and I raise my hand and go "It's his other dad".

My teacher goes "Well no, but I mean yes I guess that could...uh...", why we gotta assume the surgeon is hetero?

Lol. I should have read your response before I posted mine. That's exactly the thought I had.

flutteringinfl

So you guys have inspired me to get back on Reddit. I've actively avoided that place since I got skewered for ranting about my "first world feminist problem," but the more I think about it, the more I realize running away from the site is just going to affirm to people who rant against "feminazis" that Reddit is a space for males and the male viewpoint only. Not saying I'm going to on there and start a tirade, but I think now that the best way to combat that is to continue to use the website.

southernbelle0915

Someone just posted this to Facebook. I thought it was a pretty interesting take:

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/04/empowered-vs-objectified/

littlepep

flbride2015 said:

novella1186 said:

levioosa said:

I watched Silent Hill for the first time last night.  As per usual, I had to look up all of the trivia about the movie.  This was under the trivia section on IMDB:

"In the original script, there were only female characters.  After submitting this, the script was returned to Christophe Gans with a memo saying 'there are no men!' Sean Bean's character was added and the script was approved."

God forbid there be a movie with all female leads!  We have to have a dick in there somewhere, otherwise it's not even worth making! 

Remember this? 

The best part is, the original was made in 1939. No men in the cast. Silent Hill is less progressive than a movie made in 1939 

Ugh.  Just. Ugh.

Oh, and I remember the other thing that made me ragey last night. 

One of my FB friends posted this:



I haven't decided how I feel about Hilary, but when I do, it's going to be based on her actual track record and political stances.  It really bothered me that the shirt simultaneously was slut shaming and discounting who she is as a person by reducing her to someone's wife (not that being a wife is a bad thing, but this made it a derogatory thing), and that somehow it's her fault her husband cheated.  Shitty all around. 

Yeah I'm not ok with this. If you don't like her politics that's perfectly fine. But don't slam her for other nonsense. It's the same with Obama. If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but don't even with that "He's not even American; he's a Muslim terrorist" BS. 

My friend made a really great FB post the other day: 

"The elections are over a year and a half away and it's getting hectic already. Regardless of political alignment, do you really believe that the other party is "evil" or "out to destroy" America? I suppose you might believe that, but think how unreasonable that seems. They just disagree with you. Chances are it's not personal or malevolent. One of the most dangerous things facing America these days is the inability of people to engage in civil, constructive discourse. Open your mind to the values and background of other people and look for common ground. Resist the urge to get emotional. It's the only way anything will get done. Plus also keep that crap off my feed."

That's a great post! I should post something similar.

Someone I know posted a picture of a guy wearing a "Bill for First Lady 2016" t-shirt. He's a Hillary fan. One of his friends commented that women couldn't be president. Not just Hillary, women in general. He said women were getting better at some things but president wasn't one of them.

 

HAHAHAHA WHAT?!?!? 

NowIamMrsKlein

Ou I have a good story

My first job back when I was 15 was working at Canadian Tire. Big Box door home and garden-esque type thing. I was hired to work in the Automotive section that was attached to their service garage, selling people parts for their cars. You have no idea how many customers refused to let me serve them.

Thankfully I had some great co-workers that took no shit from anyone and it lead to this exchange one day.

Customer: Describes whats going on with his car and what he thinks is wrong etc.

Me: This is the part you need for the vehicle, unfortunately we don't have it in stock but I can get it shipped in from another store.

Customer: That is bullshit. Looks me up and down. You can't possibly know what I am talking about. I want you to tottle off and go find me the real automotives service person. You know, the man.

Co-worker overhears and walks up to the counter and asks the guy how he could help him

Customer: Oh good, there actually is a proper person here that can help me. *explains what he needs*

Coworker: Oh I am sorry, I am not sure if I can help you with that, thats not really my expertise. I'll have to defer that to my superior.

Customer: Well then thanks for you help, can you grab him for me?

Coworker: SHE, is standing right there.

Bam. Dealt with bullshit like that everyday. Still makes me ragey.

plainjane0415

WinstonsGirl said:

I was pretty lucky growing up that my Dad saw himself as a "man of the 90's".  He worked longer hours, but helped clean on weekends, cooked breakfasts, etc.  He saw both himself and my Mom as equals, so I always grew up assuming that's how things were now.  DH is the same.  I have no problems cooking dinner for him, for example, cos I'm home first and he'll help or do it himself if he's here too. 

On another note, this made the twitter verse in my Province today.  This political party has a history of saying/doing stupid things.  

http://www.cbc.ca/news/elections/alberta-votes/wildrose-candidates-s-bring-your-wife-s-pie-event-bakes-up-twitter-backlash-1.3035811

Cole's Notes - Right wing party invited people to a meet and greet for the election and told them to "Bring their wife's pie".  

My dad was the same!

flbride2015

littlepep said:

flbride2015 said:

novella1186 said:

levioosa said:

I watched Silent Hill for the first time last night.  As per usual, I had to look up all of the trivia about the movie.  This was under the trivia section on IMDB:

"In the original script, there were only female characters.  After submitting this, the script was returned to Christophe Gans with a memo saying 'there are no men!' Sean Bean's character was added and the script was approved."

God forbid there be a movie with all female leads!  We have to have a dick in there somewhere, otherwise it's not even worth making! 

Remember this? 

The best part is, the original was made in 1939. No men in the cast. Silent Hill is less progressive than a movie made in 1939 

Ugh.  Just. Ugh.

Oh, and I remember the other thing that made me ragey last night. 

One of my FB friends posted this:



I haven't decided how I feel about Hilary, but when I do, it's going to be based on her actual track record and political stances.  It really bothered me that the shirt simultaneously was slut shaming and discounting who she is as a person by reducing her to someone's wife (not that being a wife is a bad thing, but this made it a derogatory thing), and that somehow it's her fault her husband cheated.  Shitty all around. 

Yeah I'm not ok with this. If you don't like her politics that's perfectly fine. But don't slam her for other nonsense. It's the same with Obama. If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but don't even with that "He's not even American; he's a Muslim terrorist" BS. 

My friend made a really great FB post the other day: 

"The elections are over a year and a half away and it's getting hectic already. Regardless of political alignment, do you really believe that the other party is "evil" or "out to destroy" America? I suppose you might believe that, but think how unreasonable that seems. They just disagree with you. Chances are it's not personal or malevolent. One of the most dangerous things facing America these days is the inability of people to engage in civil, constructive discourse. Open your mind to the values and background of other people and look for common ground. Resist the urge to get emotional. It's the only way anything will get done. Plus also keep that crap off my feed."

That's a great post! I should post something similar.

Someone I know posted a picture of a guy wearing a "Bill for First Lady 2016" t-shirt. He's a Hillary fan. One of his friends commented that women couldn't be president. Not just Hillary, women in general. He said women were getting better at some things but president wasn't one of them.

 

HAHAHAHA WHAT?!?!? 

Yup. I snarkily asked if he was a misogynist and he replied that he couldn't answer because he didn't know what that meant. You can't make this shit up.

littlepep

flbride2015 said:

flbride2015 said:

novella1186 said:

levioosa said:

I watched Silent Hill for the first time last night.  As per usual, I had to look up all of the trivia about the movie.  This was under the trivia section on IMDB:

"In the original script, there were only female characters.  After submitting this, the script was returned to Christophe Gans with a memo saying 'there are no men!' Sean Bean's character was added and the script was approved."

God forbid there be a movie with all female leads!  We have to have a dick in there somewhere, otherwise it's not even worth making! 

Remember this? 

The best part is, the original was made in 1939. No men in the cast. Silent Hill is less progressive than a movie made in 1939 

Ugh.  Just. Ugh.

Oh, and I remember the other thing that made me ragey last night. 

One of my FB friends posted this:



I haven't decided how I feel about Hilary, but when I do, it's going to be based on her actual track record and political stances.  It really bothered me that the shirt simultaneously was slut shaming and discounting who she is as a person by reducing her to someone's wife (not that being a wife is a bad thing, but this made it a derogatory thing), and that somehow it's her fault her husband cheated.  Shitty all around. 

Yeah I'm not ok with this. If you don't like her politics that's perfectly fine. But don't slam her for other nonsense. It's the same with Obama. If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but don't even with that "He's not even American; he's a Muslim terrorist" BS. 

My friend made a really great FB post the other day: 

"The elections are over a year and a half away and it's getting hectic already. Regardless of political alignment, do you really believe that the other party is "evil" or "out to destroy" America? I suppose you might believe that, but think how unreasonable that seems. They just disagree with you. Chances are it's not personal or malevolent. One of the most dangerous things facing America these days is the inability of people to engage in civil, constructive discourse. Open your mind to the values and background of other people and look for common ground. Resist the urge to get emotional. It's the only way anything will get done. Plus also keep that crap off my feed."

That's a great post! I should post something similar.

Someone I know posted a picture of a guy wearing a "Bill for First Lady 2016" t-shirt. He's a Hillary fan. One of his friends commented that women couldn't be president. Not just Hillary, women in general. He said women were getting better at some things but president wasn't one of them.

 

HAHAHAHA WHAT?!?!? 

Yup. I snarkily asked if he was a misogynist and he replied that he couldn't answer because he didn't know what that meant. You can't make this shit up.

allispain

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

huskypuppy14

flbride2015 said:

littlepep said:

flbride2015 said:

novella1186 said:

levioosa said:

I watched Silent Hill for the first time last night.  As per usual, I had to look up all of the trivia about the movie.  This was under the trivia section on IMDB:

"In the original script, there were only female characters.  After submitting this, the script was returned to Christophe Gans with a memo saying 'there are no men!' Sean Bean's character was added and the script was approved."

God forbid there be a movie with all female leads!  We have to have a dick in there somewhere, otherwise it's not even worth making! 

Remember this? 

The best part is, the original was made in 1939. No men in the cast. Silent Hill is less progressive than a movie made in 1939 

Ugh.  Just. Ugh.

Oh, and I remember the other thing that made me ragey last night. 

One of my FB friends posted this:



I haven't decided how I feel about Hilary, but when I do, it's going to be based on her actual track record and political stances.  It really bothered me that the shirt simultaneously was slut shaming and discounting who she is as a person by reducing her to someone's wife (not that being a wife is a bad thing, but this made it a derogatory thing), and that somehow it's her fault her husband cheated.  Shitty all around. 

Yeah I'm not ok with this. If you don't like her politics that's perfectly fine. But don't slam her for other nonsense. It's the same with Obama. If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but don't even with that "He's not even American; he's a Muslim terrorist" BS. 

My friend made a really great FB post the other day: 

"The elections are over a year and a half away and it's getting hectic already. Regardless of political alignment, do you really believe that the other party is "evil" or "out to destroy" America? I suppose you might believe that, but think how unreasonable that seems. They just disagree with you. Chances are it's not personal or malevolent. One of the most dangerous things facing America these days is the inability of people to engage in civil, constructive discourse. Open your mind to the values and background of other people and look for common ground. Resist the urge to get emotional. It's the only way anything will get done. Plus also keep that crap off my feed."

That's a great post! I should post something similar.

Someone I know posted a picture of a guy wearing a "Bill for First Lady 2016" t-shirt. He's a Hillary fan. One of his friends commented that women couldn't be president. Not just Hillary, women in general. He said women were getting better at some things but president wasn't one of them.

 

HAHAHAHA WHAT?!?!? 

Yup. I snarkily asked if he was a misogynist and he replied that he couldn't answer because he didn't know what that meant. You can't make this shit up.


You should have said idiots can't be president either.

princessofgenovia

I grew up with both my parents being feminists. My mom actually using the world and my dad just walking the walk. Actually it wasn't until Obama was on the cover of Ms. wearing on of the "This is what a feminist looks like" t-shirts that my dad went "Huh, so...I can be a feminist even though I'm a guy?" and I was like yes dad. Like I have been telling you, you're a feminist.

I'm an only child, and my dad heard time and again, boy I bet you wish you had a son so you can do guy things with him, huh? And my dad would "Aside from teaching her to write her name in the snow, there is nothing I can't do with my daughter they wouldn't have also done with my son". My dad is a big believer in just doing whatever made you happy. Regardless of your gender or race or sexual orientation or whatever. Wanna sew? Awesome. Like working on cars? Wonderful. Just do what makes you happy.

My mom was really big on me being educated, working hard, figuring out how to support myself. I was not ever allowed to say "Well I'm a girl so I can't _____". I said it once the entire time I was growing up. Something about playing the pitching position in kickball because it was always a boy so I said "Well I'm a girl so I can't play that position" and my mother told the only things in life I can't do are the things I'm not willing to get up and go do. 

I actually knew FI was the right guy for me because on our...second or third date he told me "So I really like you, but I have to tell you right now I'm a feminist. And I can't be with a woman who wouldn't consider herself a feminist", I was in. Apparently the last girl before me wasn't a feminist and thought feminists were man-hating hairy legged bull dykes (her words). FI was raised by two moms and has two younger sisters. As far as he's concerned women and men are equal and anyone who thinks otherwise can kiss his ass.

novella1186

allispain said:

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

Ditto the bolded, so when I was in writing classes in college, I tried to write strong female characters. One character went to the other side of the world to help with disaster relief after a huge earthquake and the story was about her getting there and struggling with the decision cuz she was giving something else up to be able to go. I was proud of that story, because I thought she was a really brave character and to me, the content had meaning. 

My [female] professor blasted it. She said I needed to work in a love interest for the lead character, and her love interest should be what drives her to travel across the world. And the main focus of the plot should be this love story. So my strong, brave, independent female character is bad because she SHOULD be doing things solely for a man and her actions should all revolve around a man. I was both disgusted and devastated. 

In fact, I don't even think I have the file for that story anymore, or a hard copy of it. I didn't even try to revise it, because I knew if I didn't make the whole thing about love the professor would give me a shitty grade, but if I did make the whole thing about love I would be disappointed in myself. Ugh. 

TrixieJess

SoontobeMrsKlein said:

Ou I have a good story

My first job back when I was 15 was working at Canadian Tire. Big Box door home and garden-esque type thing. I was hired to work in the Automotive section that was attached to their service garage, selling people parts for their cars. You have no idea how many customers refused to let me serve them.

Thankfully I had some great co-workers that took no shit from anyone and it lead to this exchange one day.

Customer: Describes whats going on with his car and what he thinks is wrong etc.

Me: This is the part you need for the vehicle, unfortunately we don't have it in stock but I can get it shipped in from another store.

Customer: That is bullshit. Looks me up and down. You can't possibly know what I am talking about. I want you to tottle off and go find me the real automotives service person. You know, the man.

Co-worker overhears and walks up to the counter and asks the guy how he could help him

Customer: Oh good, there actually is a proper person here that can help me. *explains what he needs*

Coworker: Oh I am sorry, I am not sure if I can help you with that, thats not really my expertise. I'll have to defer that to my superior.

Customer: Well then thanks for you help, can you grab him for me?

Coworker: SHE, is standing right there.

Bam. Dealt with bullshit like that everyday. Still makes me ragey.

What is it about Canadian Tire customers? FI used to work in the Rec and Toy department...the stories...

Kahlyla

princessofgenovia said:

I grew up with both my parents being feminists. My mom actually using the world and my dad just walking the walk. Actually it wasn't until Obama was on the cover of Ms. wearing on of the "This is what a feminist looks like" t-shirts that my dad went "Huh, so...I can be a feminist even though I'm a guy?" and I was like yes dad. Like I have been telling you, you're a feminist.

I'm an only child, and my dad heard time and again, boy I bet you wish you had a son so you can do guy things with him, huh? And my dad would "Aside from teaching her to write her name in the snow, there is nothing I can't do with my daughter they wouldn't have also done with my son". My dad is a big believer in just doing whatever made you happy. Regardless of your gender or race or sexual orientation or whatever. Wanna sew? Awesome. Like working on cars? Wonderful. Just do what makes you happy.

My mom was really big on me being educated, working hard, figuring out how to support myself. I was not ever allowed to say "Well I'm a girl so I can't _____". I said it once the entire time I was growing up. Something about playing the pitching position in kickball because it was always a boy so I said "Well I'm a girl so I can't play that position" and my mother told the only things in life I can't do are the things I'm not willing to get up and go do. 

I actually knew FI was the right guy for me because on our...second or third date he told me "So I really like you, but I have to tell you right now I'm a feminist. And I can't be with a woman who wouldn't consider herself a feminist", I was in. Apparently the last girl before me wasn't a feminist and thought feminists were man-hating hairy legged bull dykes (her words). FI was raised by two moms and has two younger sisters. As far as he's concerned women and men are equal and anyone who thinks otherwise can kiss his ass.

You snagged the whale! That is awesome.

YogaSandy

I have always been a feminist, I just didn't know it. I remember from a very early age knowing that women did not have to obey or submit to men. My mother always told me she took "and to obey" out of her wedding vows. I was always taught that I could do anything. At one point in my family, I was planning on becoming a doctor and my brother was planning on becoming a nurse, and this just seemed normal.

When I got married I told my pastor I would not vow to obey my husband. He laughed and said he doesn't include that part anyway (unless people specifically ask for it to be put in - WTF??). I also told him my parents would not be asked who gives me away, because I am not property being transferred from my father to DH. I was presented.

When I was in university, my prof asked us things like who believe women should vote, have access to affordable child care etc. Everyone raised their hands. Then he asked who was a feminist. One person raised their hand. We did talk about how the word feminist had negative connotations. And from an etymological stand point, it sounds like it does elevate women over men. Think of the word racism - it means you're elevating one race over the other. My friend said she doesn't consider herself a feminist, but an equalist. At the time this really resonated with me.

OK. Here's how I knew I was a feminist. I got married relatively young @ 23. I was still in university. I was working on my second degree. I was about to start a career. And from the moment I got married, people began to ask when I was going to have kids. Even strangers (seriously). This pissed me off. Like all I was good for was a baby making machine.I was just supposed to give up everything I wanted and has worked hard for. It was relentless. DH and I decided to wait. I wasn't even really sure I wanted to have kids.

I remember one time, taking about my plans to get a PhD. My mother, who I have always felt was a strong feminist, asked me what am I going to do with all that education, don't I want to start a family? Really? What? And this always angered me, because DH and I were already a family. Two people can be a family. Grrrr.

Anyway, we decided to have a child when I was 32 ( DS was born when I was 33). It was hilarious when we told my mom, because she has finally come to terms with us not having children, she thought we were joking. But then, it seemed like all every one was interested in was the pregnancy and the baby. Again, I felt totally objectified and like I was simply a baby machine. Don't even get new started on when people would touch my belly. I felt violated and objectified. No one does that to someone who isn't pregnant. Hey can i touch your uterus? So, when people would ask, I'd be like only if I can grab your boob, because it's the same thing.

Now, I am glad feminism is about choice. I chose to change my last name. People were surprised I did, but it was more because my maiden name was difficult and caused computer issues all the time. I never understood why people who went to school and had a career would give it up to stay at home with kids. But then I had DS and I get it. It was so hard to go back to work after my eighteen month mat leave. I would love to be a SAHM now, but I made the choice to return to work.

kkitkat79

novella1186 said:

allispain said:

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

Ditto the bolded, so when I was in writing classes in college, I tried to write strong female characters. One character went to the other side of the world to help with disaster relief after a huge earthquake and the story was about her getting there and struggling with the decision cuz she was giving something else up to be able to go. I was proud of that story, because I thought she was a really brave character and to me, the content had meaning. 

My [female] professor blasted it. She said I needed to work in a love interest for the lead character, and her love interest should be what drives her to travel across the world. And the main focus of the plot should be this love story. So my strong, brave, independent female character is bad because she SHOULD be doing things solely for a man and her actions should all revolve around a man. I was both disgusted and devastated. 

In fact, I don't even think I have the file for that story anymore, or a hard copy of it. I didn't even try to revise it, because I knew if I didn't make the whole thing about love the professor would give me a shitty grade, but if I did make the whole thing about love I would be disappointed in myself. Ugh. 

Did she specify that the love interest had to be a man? Would it have made a difference in how you felt?

allispain

novella1186 said:

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

Ditto the bolded, so when I was in writing classes in college, I tried to write strong female characters. One character went to the other side of the world to help with disaster relief after a huge earthquake and the story was about her getting there and struggling with the decision cuz she was giving something else up to be able to go. I was proud of that story, because I thought she was a really brave character and to me, the content had meaning. 

My [female] professor blasted it. She said I needed to work in a love interest for the lead character, and her love interest should be what drives her to travel across the world. And the main focus of the plot should be this love story. So my strong, brave, independent female character is bad because she SHOULD be doing things solely for a man and her actions should all revolve around a man. I was both disgusted and devastated. 

In fact, I don't even think I have the file for that story anymore, or a hard copy of it. I didn't even try to revise it, because I knew if I didn't make the whole thing about love the professor would give me a shitty grade, but if I did make the whole thing about love I would be disappointed in myself. Ugh. 

Ugh indeed. I don't blame you for not wanting to revise that particular story. Because of course, the only reason a woman would move to the other side of the world could possibly be because of a relationship. Gross.

novella1186

kkitkat79 said:

novella1186 said:

allispain said:

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

Ditto the bolded, so when I was in writing classes in college, I tried to write strong female characters. One character went to the other side of the world to help with disaster relief after a huge earthquake and the story was about her getting there and struggling with the decision cuz she was giving something else up to be able to go. I was proud of that story, because I thought she was a really brave character and to me, the content had meaning. 

My [female] professor blasted it. She said I needed to work in a love interest for the lead character, and her love interest should be what drives her to travel across the world. And the main focus of the plot should be this love story. So my strong, brave, independent female character is bad because she SHOULD be doing things solely for a man and her actions should all revolve around a man. I was both disgusted and devastated. 

In fact, I don't even think I have the file for that story anymore, or a hard copy of it. I didn't even try to revise it, because I knew if I didn't make the whole thing about love the professor would give me a shitty grade, but if I did make the whole thing about love I would be disappointed in myself. Ugh. 

Did she specify that the love interest had to be a man? Would it have made a difference in how you felt?

Yep, she said "this girl needs a man to drive her decisions" and crap like that. I just didn't want it to be about love. People can do big things for reasons other than love. It was so frustrating.

kkitkat79

novella1186 said:

kkitkat79 said:

novella1186 said:

allispain said:

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

Ditto the bolded, so when I was in writing classes in college, I tried to write strong female characters. One character went to the other side of the world to help with disaster relief after a huge earthquake and the story was about her getting there and struggling with the decision cuz she was giving something else up to be able to go. I was proud of that story, because I thought she was a really brave character and to me, the content had meaning. 

My [female] professor blasted it. She said I needed to work in a love interest for the lead character, and her love interest should be what drives her to travel across the world. And the main focus of the plot should be this love story. So my strong, brave, independent female character is bad because she SHOULD be doing things solely for a man and her actions should all revolve around a man. I was both disgusted and devastated. 

In fact, I don't even think I have the file for that story anymore, or a hard copy of it. I didn't even try to revise it, because I knew if I didn't make the whole thing about love the professor would give me a shitty grade, but if I did make the whole thing about love I would be disappointed in myself. Ugh. 

Did she specify that the love interest had to be a man? Would it have made a difference in how you felt?

Yep, she said "this girl needs a man to drive her decisions" and crap like that. I just didn't want it to be about love. People can do big things for reasons other than love. It was so frustrating.

Oh, I get your frustration then. It is amazing to me that people still think this way.

lurkergirl

kkitkat79 said:

novella1186 said:

kkitkat79 said:

novella1186 said:

allispain said:

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

Ditto the bolded, so when I was in writing classes in college, I tried to write strong female characters. One character went to the other side of the world to help with disaster relief after a huge earthquake and the story was about her getting there and struggling with the decision cuz she was giving something else up to be able to go. I was proud of that story, because I thought she was a really brave character and to me, the content had meaning. 

My [female] professor blasted it. She said I needed to work in a love interest for the lead character, and her love interest should be what drives her to travel across the world. And the main focus of the plot should be this love story. So my strong, brave, independent female character is bad because she SHOULD be doing things solely for a man and her actions should all revolve around a man. I was both disgusted and devastated. 

In fact, I don't even think I have the file for that story anymore, or a hard copy of it. I didn't even try to revise it, because I knew if I didn't make the whole thing about love the professor would give me a shitty grade, but if I did make the whole thing about love I would be disappointed in myself. Ugh. 

Did she specify that the love interest had to be a man? Would it have made a difference in how you felt?

Yep, she said "this girl needs a man to drive her decisions" and crap like that. I just didn't want it to be about love. People can do big things for reasons other than love. It was so frustrating.

Oh, I get your frustration then. It is amazing to me that people still think this way.

I think it doesn't even matter the gender of the love interest.  The point is that the professor thought a woman couldn't be independently, internally motivated to do anything.  Like, a silly little woman couldn't possibly want to travel the world on her own.  She'd only do it for romantic love or the love of her child (cuz wife and mommy--those are our only worthy roles.)

novella1186

lurkergirl said:

kkitkat79 said:

novella1186 said:

kkitkat79 said:

novella1186 said:

allispain said:

I haven't had much time these past few days, but I just finished reading through this whole thread and it made me so very happy.

I too have never had that "aha" moment when I realized I was a feminist - I can't remember not ever being one. In part I think it's because of my mom - she made me very aware that "feminist" does not mean "man hater." I think it's also because I read a lot as a child, and the books I gravitated towards had strong female characters who were great role models for me. Books like that are so important, especially given the fact that most TV shows and movies don't portray women that way - they focus more on looks than anything else.

Ditto the bolded, so when I was in writing classes in college, I tried to write strong female characters. One character went to the other side of the world to help with disaster relief after a huge earthquake and the story was about her getting there and struggling with the decision cuz she was giving something else up to be able to go. I was proud of that story, because I thought she was a really brave character and to me, the content had meaning. 

My [female] professor blasted it. She said I needed to work in a love interest for the lead character, and her love interest should be what drives her to travel across the world. And the main focus of the plot should be this love story. So my strong, brave, independent female character is bad because she SHOULD be doing things solely for a man and her actions should all revolve around a man. I was both disgusted and devastated. 

In fact, I don't even think I have the file for that story anymore, or a hard copy of it. I didn't even try to revise it, because I knew if I didn't make the whole thing about love the professor would give me a shitty grade, but if I did make the whole thing about love I would be disappointed in myself. Ugh. 

Did she specify that the love interest had to be a man? Would it have made a difference in how you felt?

Yep, she said "this girl needs a man to drive her decisions" and crap like that. I just didn't want it to be about love. People can do big things for reasons other than love. It was so frustrating.

Oh, I get your frustration then. It is amazing to me that people still think this way.

I think it doesn't even matter the gender of the love interest.  The point is that the professor thought a woman couldn't be independently, internally motivated to do anything.  Like, a silly little woman couldn't possibly want to travel the world on her own.  She'd only do it for romantic love or the love of her child (cuz wife and mommy--those are our only worthy roles.)

This, exactly. It didn't matter to me what gender or sexual orientation was involved in the love story. I did not want it to be a love story. I could say a million things about my real life without mentioning love or anything related to it. In fact, some of the biggest things to happen to me (getting books published, graduating college, graduating grad school, going to China, spending a summer in Europe, adopting my dogs, etc etc etc etc) have absolutely nothing at all to do with love. But somehow... it was still significant and mattered. Weird.