Opinions Wanted: Keeping baby's sex a secret from others when we know

lyndausvi

when you have a child you are  a parent for life.     When you are a sibling, you are a sibling for life. 

Now do I think parents or siblings owe anything to you?  NO.  But I can totally understand why parents and siblings are actively excited and interested in your pregnancy.   

It will be interesting to fast forward 30 years to see how you react to your own child's pregnancy.  

There is a difference between being interested and being controlling.   Sure there are some families were are fucking crazy.   But I would say most are not.  They have a health interest in their  child's or sibling's pregnancy.  they want to be apart of their lives.   I'm so grateful for having my grandparents in my life. I'm grateful for having my aunts/uncles in my life.  I'm grateful for being in my nieces and nephews lives.  Those bonds started during pregnancy.  I would be pretty sad if my sister shut me out during her pregnancy.     Thankfully she didn't. 

sarahufl

lyndausvi said:

when you have a child you are  a parent for life.     When you are a sibling, you are a sibling for life. 

Now do I think parents or siblings owe anything to you?  NO.  But I can totally understand why parents and siblings are actively excited and interested in your pregnancy.   

It will be interesting to fast forward 30 years to see how you react to your own child's pregnancy.  

There is a difference between being interested and being controlling.   Sure there are some families were are fucking crazy.   But I would say most are not.  They have a health interest in their  child's or sibling's pregnancy.  they want to be apart of their lives.   I'm so grateful for having my grandparents in my life. I'm grateful for having my aunts/uncles in my life.  I'm grateful for being in my nieces and nephews lives.  Those bonds started during pregnancy.  I would be pretty sad if my sister shut me out during her pregnancy.     Thankfully she didn't. 

So, I think there is a difference between shutting out and not sharing All The Things. My sister had 2 miscarriages back to back before she had her first child. She is now pregnant with her second. The understanding in our family is that she gets to be pregnant and offer what she wants to offer and it is respected. Nothing on social media, you don't ask probing questions in groups. I will take the same stance when (or if) I get pregnant again.

But I wouldn't consider that shutting out. She said something to me the other day that really hit home. When you are hospitalized due to a pregnancy, or when you have to have your fallopian tube removed due to a failing pregnancy (like me), it isn't FUN for you anymore. The general thought is that pregnancy is this fun, beautiful thing that the community gets to participate in. But it isn't that way for everyone.

For a lot of people, it is full of anxiety and scary thoughts. So why do you have to pretend that everything is hunky dory and talk about it to any and everyone IF YOU DON'T WANT TO?

kmmssg

lyndausvi said:

when you have a child you are  a parent for life.     When you are a sibling, you are a sibling for life. 

Now do I think parents or siblings owe anything to you?  NO.  But I can totally understand why parents and siblings are actively excited and interested in your pregnancy.   

It will be interesting to fast forward 30 years to see how you react to your own child's pregnancy.  

There is a difference between being interested and being controlling.   Sure there are some families were are fucking crazy.   But I would say most are not.  They have a health interest in their  child's or sibling's pregnancy.  they want to be apart of their lives.   I'm so grateful for having my grandparents in my life. I'm grateful for having my aunts/uncles in my life.  I'm grateful for being in my nieces and nephews lives.  Those bonds started during pregnancy.  I would be pretty sad if my sister shut me out during her pregnancy.     Thankfully she didn't. 

@Lyndausvi - you write some of the most thoughtful things.  Seriously.

My girls are almost 33 and 34.  Back in that day you didn't get ultrasounds that would tell you the sex of the child, you found out at delivery (unless you had an amniosentisis). It drove me bat shit crazy not knowing!  All my girlfriends and I had drawers full of yellow and green stuff and we hated it.

It is funny to me (not at all in a disrespectful way) that now there is a sway back to not knowing.  Kind of like how what you wore in high school will eventually come back around.  I couldn't find out and wanted to know, nowadays you can usually find out and choose not to.

DS is 19 and we had an amnio with him.  It was the one and only ultrasound I ever had being pregnant and he wouldn't show what he had between his legs.  When they called me a week later to tell me everything was ok (which I was totally expecting)  I was "Great.  Is it a girl or a boy????"

Our family has been so incredibly fortunate that when we want to pop out a kid we can and we haven't had any challenges to deal with as far as birth defects.  And we haven't had anyone make it out of the dr's office parking lot after the ultrasound without being on the phone saying, Its a whatever it is.

I also want to share this thought on not wanting people to get gender specific things for  your new baby - how that baby grows up is on you and how you parent, not if you got a bunch of pink or blue things for a newborn.  All that baby is going to do with those little outfits is puke, pee, and poop on them.  A newborn girl won't care if she is wearing trucks and frogs on her sleeper and a boy won't have a clue if there is a tiara on his.   They will outgrow it in 3 weeks anyway.  These would presumably be gifts from people who care about you and love you.  On a scale of 1-10, that's a 10 in my book.

Later on as they start to grow you can discuss with your family that you would prefer gender neutral things.  They should abide by your request.  Just remember some of those little boys will still want some trucks and some of those girls will still ask for dolls and tiaras.  I think the child should drive that train a bit too.

@sarahufl - I am so sorry your sister has had a sad journey and I can understand her feelings and the boundaries she has set.

Personally, It seems like OP is being controlling and aiming it at her MIL.

ETA - OP - tell people you haven't chosen a name and either find out the sex and tell people or just let it go.  Somewhere along the line one of you will end up saying he or she and it will get out of the bag.  If you find out and your DH wants to tell, he should be able to.

Also - who is that celebrity couple who had a baby a few months ago and refuse to divulge the sex or name of said baby?

larrygaga

I think it's dumb but I have two of the biggest attention whore FSILs who are both pregnant right now. One made a huge, huge fucking deal about the gender of her baby, acting like everyone was just DYING TO FUCKING KNOW. She had a "gender reveal cake", and for those of us not able to attend the party she was sending black and white pictures of the cake as a tease. I told her it was obnoxious and she got mad and didn't tell me the sex until a week later. I forgot about it, honestly. 

The other sister announced her pregnancy at my bridal shower. I didn't care, but I had people asking me all day if I was mad. I didn't feel like the attention was stolen from me, and I was really excited about having a new baby around! She didn't stand up and announce it, she just told important family members while eating. 

Sex= physical difference (genitals, menstruation, boobs) : Nature

Gender= socially constructed roles, behaviors, feelings, emotions :Nurture

They are not the same word, and they are not interchangeable. 

geebee908

kmmssg said:

Personally, It seems like OP is being controlling and aiming it at her MIL.

I think the difference here is not that she's being controlling, but that she'd like to have some control and not feel pressured into divulging that information to anyone who demands it.

Brides here are told all the time to shut down the people who think they get a say in the personal aspects of the wedding planning process with the reasoning that if they don't, those people will think they get to have a say in the personal lives of the couple later on. Here is an example of just such a situation. OP thinks she might like to keep that info between herself and her H, and she should have that option. But, MIL thinks she's entitled to that information by virtue of her position as "The Grandmother" and will demand that she be told. That's a boundary issue to me.

There, unfortunately, is no room for compromise in this situation by OP and her H. Someone has to give way to the other because it's just too difficult to only tell some people. It's going to get around once someone else knows.

flantastic

Yeah, to me, it's that they're not entitled to know everything going on in my uterus or marriage just because they're interested, and I don't consider that shutting them out of places they actually belong. Am I being controlling with my proprietary info? Maybe. But when you constantly badger me for information, that's going to make me want to share it with you less. I don't mind sharing with the people who respect that it's my prerogative to initiate the sharing. (That said, if it seemed like my last post implied that we would tell some people and not others, nope - it'll be all or nothing, because yeah the info will get around.)

The "we're going to find out in a few months anyway" argument would actually work in reverse with me. Yes, you will. So why is it so damn important that you know now? How difficult would it be for you to let this just be mine and H's thing for a few months?

That said, talked with H again last night and I'm going to let it go and we're going to tell people, primarily for these reasons:

• Not finding out is not an option. H really wants to know, and doesn't like the idea that someone else would know (the doctor) and we don't. So we're finding out.
• Nurse practitioner SIL will also "know" the sex if we share U/S pictures, like MIL wants us to ("I have one of all the other grandkids!"). Either SIL will see the genitals, or she'll be 97ish% sure based on the Ramzi method.
• H thinks it will be super difficult to do. He reminded me that it was kind of weird not to share that we were pregnant in conversation with close friends and family for the few weeks when we knew and hadn't told people. I don't want to put that pressure on him, especially if he doesn't feel as strongly about it as I do.
• I told him that I wanted this knowledge to be just "our thing" and that it seemed he didn't really care about that? and his perspective was that it's our baby and there's no way it's not going to be "our thing." Because he is wise.
• They will buy us gendered crap anyway.

I hope that I would react to my own child's pregnancy like my own parents are doing - "You'll share with us whatever you want when you want to, because it's your life and your marriage and your kid. I'll be interested to hear it when you do." That's how my mom got me to share basically everything that was going on with me when I was in high school - by not pressuring me to do so - and how she approaches things now. That's how I approach everyone else's personal lives now, and I doubt my personality will make a 180 just because it's my turn to be The Grandmother.

Kahlyla

kmmssg said:

All that baby is going to do with those little outfits is puke, pee, and poop on them.  A newborn girl won't care if she is wearing trucks and frogs on her sleeper and a boy won't have a clue if there is a tiara on his.   They will outgrow it in 3 weeks anyway.

The annoying this is that this^ is NEVER what happens, though. If you're having a girl, you're going to be showered in pink (maybe a little purple thrown in). If a boy, it'll be all blue, all the time. So if you actually want your little girl to be exposed to trucks and your boy to princesses (I did), you need to buy that shit yourself but of course there's no point in doing that because you'll be given SO MANY THINGS that you won't need to buy any freaking clothes until the kid is, like, three (okay, maybe that's just my family...). And then, boom, done - nice and genderized. So honestly, in my experience, the only way to stock up on truly neutral items is to keep the sex a secret (or refuse a shower).

I'm not necessarily saying this matters oh so much, but I was just shocked at how extreme it was. Honestly, freaking everything was blue - washcloths, socks, everything. And no, the baby can't tell, but this is how societies in general stay conformed to such rigid norms - those babies go out into the world, they have their pictures taken, they become part of the broader landscape of sex and gender. Strangers can tell at a glance what sex your baby is and they immediately begin to treat them one way or another.

I mean, I accept that I may be going off on an unrelated rant here... I can see wanting to keep it a secret, though. Heck, I was tempted to outright lie about it a few times.

theartistformerlyknownas

^ totally agree. Plus, even if you don't care what color anything is, when people get so excited about buying gendered clothes (especially for a girl) you DON'T GET the things you need. I've been to so many showers where they get all pink frilly dresses but not the car seat, pack n play, bottles, white onesies, etc. because they're "boring." If people want to go ape with that shit once the baby is born, fine. But if you're going to go to the trouble of throwing/attending a shower, buying a shower gift, can you contain your pink vs blue excitement momentarily and just buy some diaper rash cream? And don't get on me with the "a gift is a gift" thing because while we all say it, if you had a shower you know you hoped to get the measuring cups and towels you needed rather than another crystal picture frame. This is no different. And in my experience, the best way to ensure that is to not reveal the sex. And yeah, I DON'T want to hear about how I'll have to worry if my daughter is a slut in high school, or how my son will be harder to potty train, or "oh is H disappointed that it's a girl? Will you try for a boy?" or "oh, are you disappointed it's a boy? Girls are so much more fun to dress." I'd rather not have to punch people, and those things DO get said once people know the sex and think it's any of their business.

Sure, then a lot will say that then I just shouldn't find out either. Fuck that, it's OUR child, growing in MY body, if we think we'll bond better with it knowing what it is, knowing its name, daydreaming about its face and whether the little head learning to play t-ball has pig tails or a fauxhawk, that's nobody's prerogative but ours.

flantastic

lolo883 said:

^ totally agree. Plus, even if you don't care what color anything is, when people get so excited about buying gendered clothes (especially for a girl) you DON'T GET the things you need. I've been to so many showers where they get all pink frilly dresses but not the car seat, pack n play, bottles, white onesies, etc. because they're "boring." If people want to go ape with that shit once the baby is born, fine. But if you're going to go to the trouble of throwing/attending a shower, buying a shower gift, can you contain your pink vs blue excitement momentarily and just buy some diaper rash cream? And don't get on me with the "a gift is a gift" thing because while we all say it, if you had a shower you know you hoped to get the measuring cups and towels you needed rather than another crystal picture frame. This is no different. And in my experience, the best way to ensure that is to not reveal the sex. And yeah, I DON'T want to hear about how I'll have to worry if my daughter is a slut in high school, or how my son will be harder to potty train, or "oh is H disappointed that it's a girl? Will you try for a boy?" or "oh, are you disappointed it's a boy? Girls are so much more fun to dress." I'd rather not have to punch people, and those things DO get said once people know the sex and think it's any of their business.

Sure, then a lot will say that then I just shouldn't find out either. Fuck that, it's OUR child, growing in MY body, if we think we'll bond better with it knowing what it is, knowing its name, daydreaming about its face and whether the little head learning to play t-ball has pig tails or a fauxhawk, that's nobody's prerogative but ours.

Yeah, if I were having a shower (I'm not, because the wedding experience and I hate them in general - they offered and we said no thanks) I would have been more insistent. Because these gifts and these conversations. But since there will not be a particular time set apart where everyone is there to discuss and promote their own thoughts and ideas for baby, I'll just try to handle them as they come up.

MairePoppy

huskypuppy14 said:

MairePoppy said:

It's your right not to tell but... if the two of you agree not to tell anyone else, then don't mention your ultrasound appointment to anyone. It seems like teasing to say you know the sex of the baby, but you're not telling. 

I don't have children, but just because you have an ultrasound appointment doesn't mean you find out the baby's sex. And, if the parents want to know the sex and not tell anyone else, that is their right. I'm really baffled why people think it's not ok for the parents to know and no one else.

I didn't say it wasn't ok for the parents to know and not anyone else. I said if you don't want to share the news, don't tell them about the ultrasound. Since flantistic is being quizzed about her appointment already, she can say they couldn't tell by the pictures. 

I didn't know the sex of my three kids before they were born, even though I had ultrasounds. The doctor was more interested in the condition of the placentas and the general formation of body parts. Back then people were intrusive with pregnant women as they are now. Relatives would quiz me on whether my husband would be in the delivery room, whether I would breast feed and the big one - names. If I had known the sex of my babies, I wouldn't have kept it a secret. My parents and my husband's mom (not my favorite person),weren't just being nosey. They truly loved my babies before they were born and were excited and anxious about the births. 

FiancB

I figure if it would be a HIPAA violation for my nurse/doc/whatever to blab about, it's not something other people should be insisting that I tell them. 

Sidenote: my parents passed on ultrasounds with us because my dad was convinced it might hurt the baby. Being the third girl, I'm guessing I was at least a little bit of a disappointment. He also doesn't wear seatbelts because he's more worried about getting trapped in the car than flying out of it. 

theartistformerlyknownas

The mere fact that an ultrasound is happening shouldn't be news or indicative of anything - they do a lot more now than they used to, especially based on various conditions. I've had 3 already, before sex organs were even formed. I don't understand the "if you don't want to tell people, you shouldn't tell them you're having an ultrasound" line. The anatomy scan is a pretty standard test at 18-24 ish weeks, to determine if the baby's growth and development are on track. And nobody should have to lie about it - just knowing that it's happening shouldn't give anyone reason to believe they're entitled to know the outcome of it, same as nobody was entitled to know the results of my nuchal translucency ultrasound or the competency of my cervix.

My dad is pretty sure this baby is a girl. It's his 5th grandbaby - 2 boys, 2 girls already. He knew two of their sexes ahead of time, was "surprised" with the others but guessed them both correctly. He's "team green" (doesn't want to find out) and I know he'll be just as enamored with this baby as he was all the others, and love it just the same no matter when he finds out if it's a granddaughter or grandson. He's not missing out on anything by not knowing.

ohannabelle

"H also doesn't really see the necessity of keeping it secret and thinks it'll be more trouble than there is any benefit. He's willing to do it if I feel strongly, but I think he's afraid my articulated reasons don't make sense and/or boil down to just wanting to spite his mother. I don't really want to lie, either, and say we didn't find out in order to shut people up.

Can you guys help me articulate a more defined reason that this is or is not better kept between us, or help me see it from the perspective of others who really want to/feel they deserve to know?"

If you're asking for assistance looking for a clearly defined reason, it's probably because you haven't actually defined the reason you feel this way.

Not telling the sex of your child isn't logically going to contribute any more "privacy" to your life. That doesn't make any sense to me, either. 

It sounds like you're just making a very specific statement- this is our baby, and not your baby, and not your business- and does that point really need to be made? 

If there are reasons that point needs to be made- if a grandparent is being intrusive or overbearing or treating you as if their "rights" and knowledge are superior to your own, or that they have a "right" to dictate how you raise or educate your child, or how you take care of your health, or whatever, then yes, you need to make a very clear statement about those specific behaviors.

But simply being excited and interested (which is presumably a good, well intended thing) doesn't seem to merit the "none of your business, because it isn't yours," stance.  If my daughter was giving a dinner party, and I said, oh, exciting, what are you serving, and she said, we're not telling you, because this isn't your dinner, and you don't need to know...I would have the same sort of reaction, which would be, What the fuck? Where did that come from? Have I been an overbearing know it all bitch? And if not, why the hell is she acting like that? Why? 

Nope, don't "deserve" to know, don't have some weird invested interest in wanting to know, just happy and excited and curious...so the statement of "we know but we're not telling because we don't have to" comes across as childish and unnecessary. 

Unless, of course, there are greater reasons for her to specifically take this attitude. Like, Mom, I want to cook a fucking dinner without hearing about what you'd do, and what kind of a meat thermometer you'd buy, and getting unasked-for dessert recommendations, because it makes me feel like an incompetent child. 

That would be the issue. Not what she's serving. 

To me, needing to make the statement implies clearly that the statement needs to be made.  Why? 

Because that's what this is about. This is not about anyone knowing/not knowing the sex of the child. This is about what you're feeling that makes you want to assume the Keep Out of My Business position. 

If you feel your in laws are too involved in your daily life, that's what you need to address. If you feel that pregnancy is making you less recognized as an individual, and resent extra attention for being a child carrying vehicle, that's what you need to address. If you fear that mother in law is going to (in the future) insert herself in the child raising process citing her "rights," then that fear is what you need to discuss.

The reason you're asking for help articulating the reason is that you haven't (at least from what you've written) identified the reason. Just your reaction. 

flantastic

ohannabelle said:

"H also doesn't really see the necessity of keeping it secret and thinks it'll be more trouble than there is any benefit. He's willing to do it if I feel strongly, but I think he's afraid my articulated reasons don't make sense and/or boil down to just wanting to spite his mother. I don't really want to lie, either, and say we didn't find out in order to shut people up.

Can you guys help me articulate a more defined reason that this is or is not better kept between us, or help me see it from the perspective of others who really want to/feel they deserve to know?"

If you're asking for assistance looking for a clearly defined reason, it's probably because you haven't actually defined the reason you feel this way.

Not telling the sex of your child isn't logically going to contribute any more "privacy" to your life. That doesn't make any sense to me, either. 

It sounds like you're just making a very specific statement- this is our baby, and not your baby, and not your business- and does that point really need to be made? 

If there are reasons that point needs to be made- if a grandparent is being intrusive or overbearing or treating you as if their "rights" and knowledge are superior to your own, or that they have a "right" to dictate how you raise or educate your child, or how you take care of your health, or whatever, then yes, you need to make a very clear statement about those specific behaviors.

But simply being excited and interested (which is presumably a good, well intended thing) doesn't seem to merit the "none of your business, because it isn't yours," stance.  If my daughter was giving a dinner party, and I said, oh, exciting, what are you serving, and she said, we're not telling you, because this isn't your dinner, and you don't need to know...I would have the same sort of reaction, which would be, What the fuck? Where did that come from? Have I been an overbearing know it all bitch? And if not, why the hell is she acting like that? Why? 

Nope, don't "deserve" to know, don't have some weird invested interest in wanting to know, just happy and excited and curious...so the statement of "we know but we're not telling because we don't have to" comes across as childish and unnecessary. 

Unless, of course, there are greater reasons for her to specifically take this attitude. Like, Mom, I want to cook a fucking dinner without hearing about what you'd do, and what kind of a meat thermometer you'd buy, and getting unasked-for dessert recommendations, because it makes me feel like an incompetent child. 

That would be the issue. Not what she's serving. 

To me, needing to make the statement implies clearly that the statement needs to be made.  Why? 

Because that's what this is about. This is not about anyone knowing/not knowing the sex of the child. This is about what you're feeling that makes you want to assume the Keep Out of My Business position. 

If you feel your in laws are too involved in your daily life, that's what you need to address. If you feel that pregnancy is making you less recognized as an individual, and resent extra attention for being a child carrying vehicle, that's what you need to address. If you fear that mother in law is going to (in the future) insert herself in the child raising process citing her "rights," then that fear is what you need to discuss.

The reason you're asking for help articulating the reason is that you haven't (at least from what you've written) identified the reason. Just your reaction. 

Thanks, Annabelle. The bolded example is exactly it. For instance, I got annoyed with H for sharing with his mother that I was going to start an herb garden without telling me, which he didn't understand right away. Until I explained to him what would happen - his mom would try to bond with me by talking about this new thing we have in common: "This is what I would do, and here's the type of pots you need if you want to do it well, and why would you ever grow that? Really, these are the herbs you need for your kitchen because these are the only ones I use." He's trying to keep that in mind for future, which is all I want to ask of him.

The SILs and I have discussed that we think she gets a lot of her self-worth from being the expert on these things, and so there's a level to which we tolerate it, and specific instances where we share things knowing full well the oodles of uninvited commentary and recommendations which will ensue. I just want to minimize the opportunities for those. There are other instances where it gets shut down ASAP - SIL brought the nephew over to stay at grandmom's, and she wouldn't follow their instructions for putting him to bed and give him his binkie (because she never used one with her boys and obviously it's not necessary), and so the kid never went to sleep. BIL and SIL said that if she wasn't willing to respect the way they parented, he wouldn't be able to stay over.

In this case, since it looks like there are reasons to offer this information to her for H's sake that don't just have to do with his mom being pushy, I guess I won't choose this hill to die on.

ILoveBeachMusic

Just my two cents on the gender specific things. It is almost impossible to find non-specific ones. I think the majority of couples find out what sex their baby is and expect gender specific gifts and even decorated their nursery differently based on the sex of each baby. All three of my kids had the same basic nursery decor (two different houses though). I have gone to buy presents for showers recently and wanted to buy non-gender specific gifts but had trouble finding them. Even if the colors weren't specific the patterns were. It was very frustrating.

theartistformerlyknownas

ILoveBeachMusic said:

Just my two cents on the gender specific things. It is almost impossible to find non-specific ones. I think the majority of couples find out what sex their baby is and expect gender specific gifts and even decorated their nursery differently based on the sex of each baby. All three of my kids had the same basic nursery decor (two different houses though). I have gone to buy presents for showers recently and wanted to buy non-gender specific gifts but had trouble finding them. Even if the colors weren't specific the patterns were. It was very frustrating.

I have never had trouble with this... the Layette section is normally neutral, and when all else fails I go for solid white onesies (which everyone needs). Or you could always just, ya know, not get clothing, and get the boring stuff they need. Bottles and baby tubs are pretty generic.

banana468

lolo883 said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

Just my two cents on the gender specific things. It is almost impossible to find non-specific ones. I think the majority of couples find out what sex their baby is and expect gender specific gifts and even decorated their nursery differently based on the sex of each baby. All three of my kids had the same basic nursery decor (two different houses though). I have gone to buy presents for showers recently and wanted to buy non-gender specific gifts but had trouble finding them. Even if the colors weren't specific the patterns were. It was very frustrating.

I have never had trouble with this... the Layette section is normally neutral, and when all else fails I go for solid white onesies (which everyone needs). Or you could always just, ya know, not get clothing, and get the boring stuff they need. Bottles and baby tubs are pretty generic.

This. It's harder as you get into larger sizes bit there are plenty of ducks and plain ABC items for newborns that are gender neutral. We also registered for gender neutral equipment. We didn't want a car seat or pnp or bedding that was gender specific and those are expensive. DS can still use DD's infant carrier seat. And I use the same baby carriers too.

sarahufl

ohannabelle- I kind of disagree with your dinner party analogy. It isn't the same thing. 

I have no (and I repeat NO) intention of ever discussing my future pregnancies with my MIL because she is nosy and I don't want her opinions. I will obviously tell her in a much nicer manner, but that is the truth. If she wanted to worm her way into my dinner party, I would still be pissed off, but I would care a little bit less because it isn't such a personal issue.

Also, RE: gender neutral stuff. When my sister was pregnant, they didn't find out. I was bound and determined to get as many silly onesies that said stuff about how cool my aunt is. I found I had to look in the boy section. A lot of girl stuff is overtly girl with bows and sparkles, but the boy stuff tended to be more neutral.

Blergbot

I escaped the whole gendered stuff issue by having a favorite color that everyone identifies with me--luckily it happens to be gender neutral (green). Everyone knows I love this color, so a lot of the stuff I got was green. I also registered for a bunch of gender neutral stuff, then, when people went off book and bought stuff not on the registry, it wasn't as big a deal when they bought blue stuff, because I already had a bunch of neutral stuff.

ohannabelle

ohannabelle- I kind of disagree with your dinner party analogy. It isn't the same thing. 

I have no (and I repeat NO) intention of ever discussing my future pregnancies with my MIL because she is nosy and I don't want her opinions. I will obviously tell her in a much nicer manner, but that is the truth. If she wanted to worm her way into my dinner party, I would still be pissed off, but I would care a little bit less because it isn't such a personal issue.

Also, RE: gender neutral stuff. When my sister was pregnant, they didn't find out. I was bound and determined to get as many silly onesies that said stuff about how cool my aunt is. I found I had to look in the boy section. A lot of girl stuff is overtly girl with bows and sparkles, but the boy stuff tended to be more neutral.

Well, no, it's not the same thing at all. Of course. I know the difference between my child and my chicken Marsala.  Of course, children are more important and the subject more personal. 

That wasn't the point. 

The point being made was that whatever people might get upset and dig their heels in about, is very often not what the actual issue is.

In this case, Flantastic was not really upset about the sex of the child being known, but that her MIL often gives too much advice and can act like a know it all, and that can make Flan feel like her own ideas aren't good enough, or that she needs advice when she doesn't need or want it. So Flan was feeling protective of her territory. 

Two different issues. Defend your territory as needed, but make sure you're fighting for the right hill.  Don't start an unrelated skirmish somewhere else that might distract from the actual hill you need to be focusing on. 

In the dinner party example, someone asking what you're having doesn't necessarily mean that they're trying to "worm their way in." If that's the reaction to someone asking what you're serving, it's not about chicken or prime rib, or even about dinner. It's obviously a bigger issue, and that's the issue that should be addressed. 

flantastic

ohannabelle said:

ohannabelle- I kind of disagree with your dinner party analogy. It isn't the same thing. 

I have no (and I repeat NO) intention of ever discussing my future pregnancies with my MIL because she is nosy and I don't want her opinions. I will obviously tell her in a much nicer manner, but that is the truth. If she wanted to worm her way into my dinner party, I would still be pissed off, but I would care a little bit less because it isn't such a personal issue.

Also, RE: gender neutral stuff. When my sister was pregnant, they didn't find out. I was bound and determined to get as many silly onesies that said stuff about how cool my aunt is. I found I had to look in the boy section. A lot of girl stuff is overtly girl with bows and sparkles, but the boy stuff tended to be more neutral.

Well, no, it's not the same thing at all. Of course. I know the difference between my child and my chicken Marsala.  Of course, children are more important and the subject more personal. 

That wasn't the point. 

The point being made was that whatever people might get upset and dig their heels in about, is very often not what the actual issue is.

In this case, Flantastic was not really upset about the sex of the child being known, but that her MIL often gives too much advice and can act like a know it all, and that can make Flan feel like her own ideas aren't good enough, or that she needs advice when she doesn't need or want it. So Flan was feeling protective of her territory. 

Two different issues. Defend your territory as needed, but make sure you're fighting for the right hill.  Don't start an unrelated skirmish somewhere else that might distract from the actual hill you need to be focusing on. 

In the dinner party example, someone asking what you're having doesn't necessarily mean that they're trying to "worm their way in." If that's the reaction to someone asking what you're serving, it's not about chicken or prime rib, or even about dinner. It's obviously a bigger issue, and that's the issue that should be addressed. 

Luckily, it doesn't really cause insecurity in me. I usually know that I have my reasons for things or that I can accomplish things on my own. But since she likes to insist that the only good way to do things is her way, and goes to great lengths to try to badger people, I try to let her know as little as possible about how I live my life.

I could request gender-neutral stuff, but if she knows the sex, she will buy whatever she wants to buy and whatever she has decided for us that our child needs, and also will tell everyone else what she thinks they should get us instead of what we actually asked for or need. If she doesn't know the sex, she has less to work with. I don't feel like an incompetent child because of her actions or commentary, but I resent that she clearly thinks of us as incompetent children, and would like to limit her opportunities to treat us that way. Not going to work out in this case, but in general.

[Deleted User]

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lyndausvi

Meh,  I grew up in an era where the sex was not known until birth.  Heck my mom didn't even know she was having twins because the technology wasn't mainstream  for her to find out.  True story, my mom went into labor 6 weeks early with a "large" baby.  Came out with twin boys.

   Now that technology allows parents to know the sex before birth I still think it's weird to draw the line and not tell people if you decide to find out.    I think even odder for the family to know you know and keep it from them.  It's just weird to me.    I never knew the sex of my nieces and nephews, as far as I knew my siblings didn't know either (that is what they told us).  But if they did know I thank them for not dangling the carrot in front of me by letting me know they knew.

I have the right to think it's weird to hide the sex.   You have the right to hide the sex. 

I don't think either of us are wrong in our feelings here.

southernbelle0915

lyndausvi said:

Meh,  I grew up in an era where the sex was not known until birth.  Heck my mom didn't even know she was having twins because the technology wasn't mainstream  for her to find out.  True story, my mom went into labor 6 weeks early with a "large" baby.  Came out with twin boys.

   Now that technology allows parents to know the sex before birth I still think it's weird to draw the line and not tell people if you decide to find out.    I think even odder for the family to know you know and keep it from them.  It's just weird to me.    I never knew the sex of my nieces and nephews, as far as I knew my siblings didn't know either (that is what they told us).  But if they did know I thank them for not dangling the carrot in front of me by letting me know they knew.

I have the right to think it's weird to hide the sex.   You have the right to hide the sex. 

I don't think either of us are wrong in our feelings here.

I see both sides of this. 

I think it's shitty of someone to be like "I know something you don't know!!!" 

But I don't think most parents who decide to find out and keep it a secret are doing that. We found out because we wanted to start referring to him as something other than "it". We didn't really want to tell people because we didn't want people trying to turn the child into a dainty princess or a macho prince before birth. 

But people CONSTANTLY ask. The two questions are: "When are you due?" and "Do you know what you're having?" If you know, you either have to lie and say you don't know, or be truthful that you know but you don't want to tell people yet. And then you're "dangling the carrot". It's kind of a lose lose.

theartistformerlyknownas

southernbelle0915 said:

Meh,  I grew up in an era where the sex was not known until birth.  Heck my mom didn't even know she was having twins because the technology wasn't mainstream  for her to find out.  True story, my mom went into labor 6 weeks early with a "large" baby.  Came out with twin boys.

   Now that technology allows parents to know the sex before birth I still think it's weird to draw the line and not tell people if you decide to find out.    I think even odder for the family to know you know and keep it from them.  It's just weird to me.    I never knew the sex of my nieces and nephews, as far as I knew my siblings didn't know either (that is what they told us).  But if they did know I thank them for not dangling the carrot in front of me by letting me know they knew.

I have the right to think it's weird to hide the sex.   You have the right to hide the sex. 

I don't think either of us are wrong in our feelings here.

I see both sides of this. 

I think it's shitty of someone to be like "I know something you don't know!!!" 

But I don't think most parents who decide to find out and keep it a secret are doing that. We found out because we wanted to start referring to him as something other than "it". We didn't really want to tell people because we didn't want people trying to turn the child into a dainty princess or a macho prince before birth. 

But people CONSTANTLY ask. The two questions are: "When are you due?" and "Do you know what you're having?" If you know, you either have to lie and say you don't know, or be truthful that you know but you don't want to tell people yet. And then you're "dangling the carrot". It's kind of a lose lose.

...and up until now, it's been "are you going to find out what you're having?" Like, since we first started telling people. So again, you either lie and say you're undecided or you aren't finding out, or you say you are and have people counting down the weeks until they start asking you what it is. Heck, I just started a new job, and had this conversation with a coworker I had known for precisely 1 hour:

CW: Do you have any kids?
L: Not yet! First one is due in October.

CW: (starts staring off into space and silently counting) So... October, 4 months? So another few weeks til you can find out?

Anyone is free to disagree with a couple's choice to keep ANYTHING a secret. But you're not free to judge that choice. That just makes you an ass. And you don't need to understand a decision to just accept that it's NOT your choice to make.

lyndausvi

southernbelle0915 said:

Meh,  I grew up in an era where the sex was not known until birth.  Heck my mom didn't even know she was having twins because the technology wasn't mainstream  for her to find out.  True story, my mom went into labor 6 weeks early with a "large" baby.  Came out with twin boys.

   Now that technology allows parents to know the sex before birth I still think it's weird to draw the line and not tell people if you decide to find out.    I think even odder for the family to know you know and keep it from them.  It's just weird to me.    I never knew the sex of my nieces and nephews, as far as I knew my siblings didn't know either (that is what they told us).  But if they did know I thank them for not dangling the carrot in front of me by letting me know they knew.

I have the right to think it's weird to hide the sex.   You have the right to hide the sex. 

I don't think either of us are wrong in our feelings here.

I see both sides of this. 

I think it's shitty of someone to be like "I know something you don't know!!!" 

But I don't think most parents who decide to find out and keep it a secret are doing that. We found out because we wanted to start referring to him as something other than "it". We didn't really want to tell people because we didn't want people trying to turn the child into a dainty princess or a macho prince before birth. 

But people CONSTANTLY ask. The two questions are: "When are you due?" and "Do you know what you're having?" If you know, you either have to lie and say you don't know, or be truthful that you know but you don't want to tell people yet. And then you're "dangling the carrot". It's kind of a lose lose.

There is something childish about dangling the carrot that I do not like.    It's almost cruel to tell people there is a secret out there and they are not fucking worthy to know.  

I will be honest I do not get all the talk about not making them a princess or macho man.   It's a baby.  90% of the items given to infants are used within less then a year of their birth.  The same people who will buy the gender specific clothes will do it as soon as the baby is born.  You are only delaying the inevitable.    I do not believe that gender specific clothes their first few months defines them for life.   

I also thing there are worse things in the world then an overly excited grandmother giving you a bunch of pink oneies that are going to get spit up and pooped on.      

The same grandfather who hears he is having a grandson and starts dreaming of taking him to the SuperBowl is still going to have those thoughts if he finds out at the birth.     Keeping the secret is NOT going to change they way people think when they find out the sex.

  I kind-of think it's funny people think keeping it secret for a few months while they kid is incubating  buys them extra time to stop grandpop turning little Johnny into an macho man.  

Kids have personalities of their own.  My SIL's sister dressed her son in blue, gave him all the "masculine" things at birth.   Didn't change the fact her son is transgender.  At age 3 he was painting his mom's nails.   He was dressing in girl clothes.  

We all knew early on he was transgender. The fact he wore a lot of blue during the pooping and spitting up stage didn't define his entire life.  The fact he got a baseball early one didn't define his life either.  He got a baseball.  He didn't like it.  He was given a dress up doll instead.  Then he got  fashion plates.  Then a sewing machine.       Now had dad demanded he play with the baseball.  Then that would have been a problem. If they refused to give him the fashion plates and sewing machines because they are only for girls, that would also be a problem.

  The mere fact he was given a baseball or a blue outfit as a baby is not an issue IMO.  How you deal with them wanting to go a different path is what is important.  

VulgarGirl

So a woman's body is her own. Right up until she gets pregnant and chooses to carry to term. At which point the going ons of her uterus and also the genitals of her unborn child are up for discussion. And if fact not discussing if you find out your kid has a penis or a vagina is mean.

I've gotten a lot of very prying questions prior to Wifey even getting pregnant. I think everyone would (and has) agree these questions are inappropriate to ask and I'm under no obligation to answer.

But my kid's genitals. That's cool?

southernbelle0915

@lyndausvi - exactly these reasons are all why we basically just bit the bullet and told people. Even though we didn't really want to. 

Our logic is that people are either going to buy the blue booties now or after the kid is born, so whatever. WE are the ones raising the kid. 

But I don't judge people who try to delay the inevitable. It's their kid, their choice. 

The vast majority of parents I know who know the sex and don't want to announce say absolutely nothing about it. Nosy people ASK and then the parents don't lie. They say "yea, we know, but we aren't announcing it yet." I have no issues with that approach. The asker should know better - if they don't want the truth, or can't handle it, they shouldn't ask.

southernbelle0915

@lyndausvi - exactly these reasons are all why we basically just bit the bullet and told people. Even though we didn't really want to. 

Our logic is that people are either going to buy the blue booties now or after the kid is born, so whatever. WE are the ones raising the kid. 

But I don't judge people who try to delay the inevitable. It's their kid, their choice. 

The vast majority of parents I know who know the sex and don't want to announce say absolutely nothing about it. Nosy people ASK and then the parents don't lie. They say "yea, we know, but we aren't announcing it yet." I have no issues with that approach. The asker should know better - if they don't want the truth, or can't handle it, they shouldn't ask.

Maggie0829

As someone who has never been pregnant/had a kid, I personally don't get the whole waiting until birth to find out the gender.  People say "well we want to be surprised!"  Well in my mind it is a surprise whether you find out prior to or at the birth.  So I just don't get that line of thinking.  I also don't get not telling others what you are having, especially if you make it known that you know but you aren't going to tell anyone.  What exactly is there to gain from that?

In the end it is your baby and your choice.