House buying- WWYD?

littlepep

I agree with PPs. This sounds shady and I would walk away. It sounds like there are a lot of major concerns, not just a few minor things.

julieanne912

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

theartistformerlyknownas

julieanne912 said:

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

Yeah I can ditto this. The people who inspected our house told the buyer that the sewer lines were all terrible and needed like $4000 worth of work done and the whole yard torn up. We said "no that's not happening, but you're welcome to have a plumber come in and look." Plumber told him $800 to fix it so H gave them $500 cash toward that at closing.

jenna8984

julieanne912 said:

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

It's a well tank not a water heater (so it does cost that much) but I do agree with you. We were willng to live wth stuff like the tank and handrail since it is a competitive market but then it just seemed like more and more kept adding on and it's like yea we'll settle for one thing but not so much with the potentially poisonous water. And even though they said they would credit us for the filtration system I'm still so worried about it costing more than the credit we agree upon.

huskypuppy14

Jenna, run far away. 1000 dollars is nothing compared to the headaches you could have with this house. The permits and arsenic are big problems. I agree with others that if they didn't get the correct permits, then who knows if it was done correctly. 

What does your lawyer and realtor think

I'm so happy we had such nice sellers. We had 4 minor things we asked them to fix, and they gladly did it. We wouldn't have backed out on the house if they didn't, but these sellers sound wicked shady. 

labro

lolo883 said:

julieanne912 said:

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

Yeah I can ditto this. The people who inspected our house told the buyer that the sewer lines were all terrible and needed like $4000 worth of work done and the whole yard torn up. We said "no that's not happening, but you're welcome to have a plumber come in and look." Plumber told him $800 to fix it so H gave them $500 cash toward that at closing.

I feel like the water heater isn't a big issue at all or some of the other minor code fixes (handrail). But the well stuff on the other hand is. My friend's mom spent $40k to have her well replaced because they had to drill a brand new well and replace the whole system. So it was $40k after over 40 years of zero water or sewer bills (they also had a septic tank) but that's still a huge chunk of change. I personally wouldn't want to take on immediate responsibility for that project as a new homeowner.

sarahufl

labro said:

lolo883 said:

julieanne912 said:

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

Yeah I can ditto this. The people who inspected our house told the buyer that the sewer lines were all terrible and needed like $4000 worth of work done and the whole yard torn up. We said "no that's not happening, but you're welcome to have a plumber come in and look." Plumber told him $800 to fix it so H gave them $500 cash toward that at closing.

I feel like the water heater isn't a big issue at all or some of the other minor code fixes (handrail). But the well stuff on the other hand is. My friend's mom spent $40k to have her well replaced because they had to drill a brand new well and replace the whole system. So it was $40k after over 40 years of zero water or sewer bills (they also had a septic tank) but that's still a huge chunk of change. I personally wouldn't want to take on immediate responsibility for that project as a new homeowner.

Yeah, our permit issue was for a patio. I was pretty sure the patio would pass muster and it presented no risks at all.

photokitty

Clean drinking water is something I would never compromise on. I'm not going to risk that a filter will fix an arsenic problem. I'd run. I wouldn't risk anything going wrong and having unsafe drinking water.

jenna8984

photokitty said:

Clean drinking water is something I would never compromise on. I'm not going to risk that a filter will fix an arsenic problem. I'd run. I wouldn't risk anything going wrong and having unsafe drinking water.

See me too. BUT I'm worried because the town we are looking in is more spread out farm type properties so they don't have town water. We would have a well with any other house in this town, and it's likely that many people's water contains the same elements being underground so near to each other's. So it's like find a house that already has the filter, or find the rare one that doesn't have this in their water, or look in a compltely different town that has town water hookup, which sucks because we love this particular town.

theartistformerlyknownas

labro said:

lolo883 said:

julieanne912 said:

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

Yeah I can ditto this. The people who inspected our house told the buyer that the sewer lines were all terrible and needed like $4000 worth of work done and the whole yard torn up. We said "no that's not happening, but you're welcome to have a plumber come in and look." Plumber told him $800 to fix it so H gave them $500 cash toward that at closing.

I feel like the water heater isn't a big issue at all or some of the other minor code fixes (handrail). But the well stuff on the other hand is. My friend's mom spent $40k to have her well replaced because they had to drill a brand new well and replace the whole system. So it was $40k after over 40 years of zero water or sewer bills (they also had a septic tank) but that's still a huge chunk of change. I personally wouldn't want to take on immediate responsibility for that project as a new homeowner.

I'm not sure why I was quoted on this, we're talking about totally different things.

I agree you have to pick your battles - some are deal breakers and some are not. But an inspector's estimate on cost shouldn't be what makes or breaks it - talk to an expert first, and then try to get it fixed before closing. But well problems are a HUGE issue.

lyndausvi

lolo883 said:

labro said:

lolo883 said:

julieanne912 said:

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

Yeah I can ditto this. The people who inspected our house told the buyer that the sewer lines were all terrible and needed like $4000 worth of work done and the whole yard torn up. We said "no that's not happening, but you're welcome to have a plumber come in and look." Plumber told him $800 to fix it so H gave them $500 cash toward that at closing.

I feel like the water heater isn't a big issue at all or some of the other minor code fixes (handrail). But the well stuff on the other hand is. My friend's mom spent $40k to have her well replaced because they had to drill a brand new well and replace the whole system. So it was $40k after over 40 years of zero water or sewer bills (they also had a septic tank) but that's still a huge chunk of change. I personally wouldn't want to take on immediate responsibility for that project as a new homeowner.

I'm not sure why I was quoted on this, we're talking about totally different things.

I agree you have to pick your battles - some are deal breakers and some are not. But an inspector's estimate on cost shouldn't be what makes or breaks it - talk to an expert first, and then try to get it fixed before closing. But well problems are a HUGE issue.

This.

And let's not forget they are at the top of their price range.  I don't care how competitive the market might be, buying a home with a lot of issues, some potentially expensive, and not having the bank account to take care of the issues is not smart purchase.

photokitty

jenna8984 said:

photokitty said:

Clean drinking water is something I would never compromise on. I'm not going to risk that a filter will fix an arsenic problem. I'd run. I wouldn't risk anything going wrong and having unsafe drinking water.

See me too. BUT I'm worried because the town we are looking in is more spread out farm type properties so they don't have town water. We would have a well with any other house in this town, and it's likely that many people's water contains the same elements being underground so near to each other's. So it's like find a house that already has the filter, or find the rare one that doesn't have this in their water, or look in a compltely different town that has town water hookup, which sucks because we love this particular town.

I understand what you are saying. I personally could not love a town that had bad water. I would walk on broken glass everyday to get to clean, safe drinking water - and I don't even like water, but I realize I need it to survive. (don't even get me started on how I feel about fracking) I'd give up everything else in a home before I gave up access to safe, clean drinking water.

theartistformerlyknownas

jenna8984 said:

photokitty said:

Clean drinking water is something I would never compromise on. I'm not going to risk that a filter will fix an arsenic problem. I'd run. I wouldn't risk anything going wrong and having unsafe drinking water.

See me too. BUT I'm worried because the town we are looking in is more spread out farm type properties so they don't have town water. We would have a well with any other house in this town, and it's likely that many people's water contains the same elements being underground so near to each other's. So it's like find a house that already has the filter, or find the rare one that doesn't have this in their water, or look in a compltely different town that has town water hookup, which sucks because we love this particular town.

The quality of the water should be a priority far and above the other things that are drawing you to this neighborhood or any other. 

RebeccaB88

No permits, no inspection =  no deal.

Run. 

OliveOilsMom

So they are reputable flippers in the New England area, is it Than from that House Flippers show?

Based on the permit issues alone, I would walk.  Have you thought about looking at a fixer upper and having the work done yourselves?  Take say $50k off your total budget and house shop on that?  You could try for a construction loan or something that will give you one mortgage for both the house and its repairs.

theartistformerlyknownas

OliveOilsMom said:

So they are reputable flippers in the New England area, is it Than from that House Flippers show?

Based on the permit issues alone, I would walk.  Have you thought about looking at a fixer upper and having the work done yourselves?  Take say $50k off your total budget and house shop on that?  You could try for a construction loan or something that will give you one mortgage for both the house and its repairs.

OMG Than Merrill. He can take all my money.

julieanne912

lolo883 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

So they are reputable flippers in the New England area, is it Than from that House Flippers show?

Based on the permit issues alone, I would walk.  Have you thought about looking at a fixer upper and having the work done yourselves?  Take say $50k off your total budget and house shop on that?  You could try for a construction loan or something that will give you one mortgage for both the house and its repairs.

OMG Than Merrill. He can take all my money.

He speaks at seminars all over the country about how to make money flipping houses... you too can be a house flipper... or maybe just give him a hug.  http://www.thanmerrill.com/ 

JoanE2012

luckya23 said:

I would avoid buying any flipped house, because the "upgrades" are likely to be mainly cosmetic, and the cheapest they could get away with and hastily done.  Are you sure the new roof isn't just shingles over the old?  One house I looked at they had done that and the weight even just by the time I looked at it had started to buckle the roof! 

And unpermitted work is a big no-no to me.  I know you don't PLAN to sell the house, but BPs stay on record forever, so it may be a huge problem to the next buyer.

This.  I'd really question the quality and workmanship of the work done.  I've seen some that look beautiful at first glance, but when you really start to dig, it's not so great.

Regarding open permits, we had to have a CO before closing.  It basically meant the township came out and made sure everything was up to code, all fire extinguisher/smoke detectors in place and all permits closed.  I'm not sure how it is by you, but we couldn't physically close on the house unless the town inspector came out and passed it.

In your case, I'd run and wouldn't look back!

jenna8984

lolo883 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

So they are reputable flippers in the New England area, is it Than from that House Flippers show?

Based on the permit issues alone, I would walk.  Have you thought about looking at a fixer upper and having the work done yourselves?  Take say $50k off your total budget and house shop on that?  You could try for a construction loan or something that will give you one mortgage for both the house and its repairs.

OMG Than Merrill. He can take all my money.

Actually its not him but his website has a picture with Than, guess they met at a seminar or something haha. And I know that this person has done a lot of houses but I couldn't exactly find reviews anywhere.

Anyways, they just keep it coming. We had asked for the oil line to be replaced (on the furnace) because it was leaking. Today they told us "oh that stain on the floor was from an old leak". My Realtor told them "Um I was there during inspection when Jenna's husband got oil on his fucking hand touching it!"

So yea, the lies continue and we told our agent we are just not comfortable moving forward. We told her we'd sleep on it before officially withdrawing but we are already 99% sure we will. Thank you all very much for your opinions and advice.

kvruns

Wouldn't you be able to keep the earnest money since you are backing out due to lies/ misrepresentation and inspection issues?

jenna8984

kvruns said:

Wouldn't you be able to keep the earnest money since you are backing out due to lies/ misrepresentation and inspection issues?

Yes. The $1000 we lose will be 3 inspections (well water lab testing is separate from general inspection). Sucks but it's better than getting into a house we're not happy with.

kvruns

jenna8984 said:

kvruns said:

Wouldn't you be able to keep the earnest money since you are backing out due to lies/ misrepresentation and inspection issues?

Yes. The $1000 we lose will be 3 inspections (well water lab testing is separate from general inspection). Sucks but it's better than getting into a house we're not happy with.

Oh gotcha. Yuck!

levioosa

julieanne912 said:

I do design work for house flippers on the side (I do finishes, nothing behind walls or anything like that).  Not pulling permits is pretty common, despite the fact they use licensed contractors to do the work.  However, I'm surprised they got away with not pulling a permit on the roof, as you pretty much have to get a permit for anything exterior.

Here's my thoughts.... I wouldn't buy a house from most house flippers.  I have first hand knowledge that they don't always do the highest quality work.  I'd much rather buy a fixer upper that was maybe an estate sale or something, and do the work slowly myself.  If your gut is telling you it's a bad idea, then it's probably a bad idea. 

However, when buying a house in a competitive market, complaining about things like a hand rail, even if it isn't up to code, isn't going to get you anywhere.  Also, don't always trust your inspector to give you accurate costs for things.  A new water heater shouldn't cost you $1500.  Do some of your own leg work when it comes to stuff like that, and decide what you can/can't live with.  The sellers have the advantage here, and it's going to be hard to get them to replace/repair things they don't consider to be a big deal, even if you do.  Just something to think about....

This.  

SO is trying to buy a house.  Sadly, in our area everything is either over our price range, or flippers buy the house before anyone else can get their hands on it, put $30-80K of shitty work into it, and then flip it for an insane amount of money.  Every time we go to see a house that has been flipped, it has been full of problems.  The last house we went to see had been picked up by the flipper for $30K (*sob*), and they have it on the market for $300K.  The quality of work is ridiculously poor, and that's just what I can see on the surface.  It chills me to think of what is behind the walls or under the crawlspace.  We would have LOVED to buy it for that amount and then put the money/work into it ourselves.  (Plus, they put in a Texas themed bathroom.  Complete with cactus tile and a giant star in the ceiling.  Why?!)

Honestly, I would walk away and look for a different house.  These are really big issues, and the seller is being shady as fuck.  

julieanne912

I should say not all flippers do a bad job.  The main one I work for does a pretty decent job.  He actually specializes in buying houses that have major issues, like foundations, structural problems, really bad floor plans etc. and fixes them because he knows what he's doing, and he was doing it even when it wasn't easy to do.  

If it's one of those flippers that attended a seminar or two and became a "professional house flipper" then uh yeah... most of the time my advice for that is run far away. 

levieenrose

jenna8984 said:

lolo883 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

So they are reputable flippers in the New England area, is it Than from that House Flippers show?

Based on the permit issues alone, I would walk.  Have you thought about looking at a fixer upper and having the work done yourselves?  Take say $50k off your total budget and house shop on that?  You could try for a construction loan or something that will give you one mortgage for both the house and its repairs.

OMG Than Merrill. He can take all my money.

Actually its not him but his website has a picture with Than, guess they met at a seminar or something haha. And I know that this person has done a lot of houses but I couldn't exactly find reviews anywhere.

Anyways, they just keep it coming. We had asked for the oil line to be replaced (on the furnace) because it was leaking. Today they told us "oh that stain on the floor was from an old leak". My Realtor told them "Um I was there during inspection when Jenna's husband got oil on his fucking hand touching it!"

So yea, the lies continue and we told our agent we are just not comfortable moving forward. We told her we'd sleep on it before officially withdrawing but we are already 99% sure we will. Thank you all very much for your opinions and advice.

Glad you are taking everyone's advice. I would offer exactly the same. 

Good luck with the continued search. Sorry that the market sucks right now, but I'm pretty sure that even if you have another long wait to find another house that captures your fancy you'll be thanking your lucky stars that you pulled away from that house when you did. 

sarahufl

Yeah, it sucks losing $1,000 but it is much better than the alternative. Good luck with your decision!

STARMOON44

I'd probably buy it. It definitely has issues, and headaches, but it sounds like the property you really want- updated, in a specific group of towns, for your budget- just doesn't exist. Fixing up this place sounds like less work than starting from scratch, and if a property that needs work is at the top of your budget that next one that comes up perfectly done is probably going to be well over it.

Or I'd rent and save a few more years until I could afford what I wanted but it sounds like you really want to move sooner than that.

levieenrose

STARMOON44 said:

I'd probably buy it. It definitely has issues, and headaches, but it sounds like the property you really want- updated, in a specific group of towns, for your budget- just doesn't exist. Fixing up this place sounds like less work than starting from scratch, and if a property that needs work is at the top of your budget that next one that comes up perfectly done is probably going to be well over it.

Or I'd rent and save a few more years until I could afford what I wanted but it sounds like you really want to move sooner than that.

Not necessarily. They could purchase a place from conscientious people that had a 10 yr old roof, 2 year old appliances, etc., with other reasons that the house still might cost less (location, square footage, acreage, etc.)

jenna8984

levieenrose said:

STARMOON44 said:

I'd probably buy it. It definitely has issues, and headaches, but it sounds like the property you really want- updated, in a specific group of towns, for your budget- just doesn't exist. Fixing up this place sounds like less work than starting from scratch, and if a property that needs work is at the top of your budget that next one that comes up perfectly done is probably going to be well over it.

Or I'd rent and save a few more years until I could afford what I wanted but it sounds like you really want to move sooner than that.

Not necessarily. They could purchase a place from conscientious people that had a 10 yr old roof, 2 year old appliances, etc., with other reasons that the house still might cost less (location, square footage, acreage, etc.)

Yea true. There is other stuff in our budget that have the components we want, like newer roof and furnace and they just don't have fantastic, new, granite kitchens. Which is fine with us, we never said we even wanted that, as I'd love to be like @lolo883 and get to design my own. So this house in particular was like we'd be paying for all the upgrades we don't even care much about, and potentially having problems with behind the scenes items.

At first glance, it looked too good to be true, like all of this new stuff for this price. But peeling back the layers and dealing with this company who seems to have poor business ethics has just left a bad vibe that cannot be fixed at this point. We gave our official withdrawal.

beachyone15

jenna8984 said:

levieenrose said:

STARMOON44 said:

I'd probably buy it. It definitely has issues, and headaches, but it sounds like the property you really want- updated, in a specific group of towns, for your budget- just doesn't exist. Fixing up this place sounds like less work than starting from scratch, and if a property that needs work is at the top of your budget that next one that comes up perfectly done is probably going to be well over it.

Or I'd rent and save a few more years until I could afford what I wanted but it sounds like you really want to move sooner than that.

Not necessarily. They could purchase a place from conscientious people that had a 10 yr old roof, 2 year old appliances, etc., with other reasons that the house still might cost less (location, square footage, acreage, etc.)

Yea true. There is other stuff in our budget that have the components we want, like newer roof and furnace and they just don't have fantastic, new, granite kitchens. Which is fine with us, we never said we even wanted that, as I'd love to be like @lolo883 and get to design my own. So this house in particular was like we'd be paying for all the upgrades we don't even care much about, and potentially having problems with behind the scenes items.

At first glance, it looked too good to be true, like all of this new stuff for this price. But peeling back the layers and dealing with this company who seems to have poor business ethics has just left a bad vibe that cannot be fixed at this point. We gave our official withdrawal.

Good for you! If there's anything I've learned from house hunting, it's how important location and the "bones" of a house are. Cosmetic can always be changed.