Earn cash as you plan. Get a $20 gift card for every 200 points with The Knot Rewards
Wedding Etiquette Forum
Snaps816
member
First Etiquette Blunder of My Wedding
Last weekend my FMIL met my parents for the first time. She came to visit for a three-day weekend. It was a little awkward but overall it went well.
However! My mom was all excited to show us the invitations. She had received a few samples from the printer and the order is in. The rest are being printed as we speak (I think). I had carefully checked for spelling and correct dates and addresses, all of that. But when we showed FMIL the invitation, she noticed that we identified her as "Ms. So-and-So." But I had completely overlooked the fact that she recently earned her PHD, and should be identified as "Dr. So-and-so." Oops.
Furthermore, later when I was talking to my fiance about it and asked, "Do you think it's that big of a deal?" He was like, well, she had a high school diploma and three kids when she divorced my dad, so yeah, she worked really hard to educate herself, it took her 20 years, and she's proud of it." He didn't say it, but I think it was a point of pride to show the family of her ex-husband how far she's come -- and I don't blame her.To make matters worse, we did identify my dad as "Dr." on the invitation because he is an MD. But my mom knew that and we've all known him as a doctor our whole lives. I guess I kinda forgot that FMIL has been quietly working her ass off in school this whole time (she does live out of state so it's not like we've been witnessing all of her studies). Feminism fail. =(
Sigh. It's too late to make a change, or at least it would be very costly if we did. I feel like the best we can do is offer a sincere apology and hope she understands that re-ordering the invites is not an option at this point. They are supposed to go in the mail in two weeks.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: First Etiquette Blunder of My Wedding
I have a phd and rarely use dr socially. However, everyone is different. I would have your Fi call his mum and feel it out. If she is upset, then yes, you should reorder invites.
Why did your Fi not proof the invites as well? I would chalk this up to an expensive lesson on why you two need to make decisions together and not get carried away with your mum leaving him out.
To smooth things over, maybe do programs and list FMIL as Dr.?
I'm sorry if this is thread jacking but is this true only for people with an MD or a DO? What about other medical providers?
Agree with PPs: Apologize, offered to correct it on other programs and hopefully she will understand
And as others said, PhDs generally do not use Dr in social settings.
If it's too expensive to re-print, then y'all should just apologize to her and print it as "Dr" in the programs, on her escort card, when addressing her invitation, etc.
To smooth things over, maybe do programs and list FMIL as Dr.?----------BOX FAIL---------------------------
As someone who knows and works with multiple PhDs, veterinarians, and dentists, I have to disagree with you. ALL OF THEM use Dr on formal written correspondence. The PhDs may not usually be referred to as "Dr so and so" when you talk to them, but for anything that is formal and written, you should always use Dr since it is their formal title.
As someone who knows and works with multiple PhDs, veterinarians, and dentists, I have to disagree with you. ALL OF THEM use Dr on formal written correspondence. The PhDs may not usually be referred to as "Dr so and so" when you talk to them, but for anything that is formal and written, you should always use Dr since it is their formal title.
But if you're working with these people, is the context social or business?
As someone who knows and works with multiple PhDs, veterinarians, and dentists, I have to disagree with you. ALL OF THEM use Dr on formal written correspondence. The PhDs may not usually be referred to as "Dr so and so" when you talk to them, but for anything that is formal and written, you should always use Dr since it is their formal title.
marie2785. I am a PhD. I know how hard it is to earn one of those degrees.
While it may be nicer to recognize us by using our professional titles socially, it is certainly not expected or a violation of etiquette.
As someone who knows and works with multiple PhDs, veterinarians, and dentists, I have to disagree with you. ALL OF THEM use Dr on formal written correspondence. The PhDs may not usually be referred to as "Dr so and so" when you talk to them, but for anything that is formal and written, you should always use Dr since it is their formal title.
At a professional event, yes, they deserve the recognition.
But this is not a conference of PhDs or other doctorates, it is a social one. So the correct social titles are Mr./Ms./Mrs./Miss, not Dr.
That said, it may not be a hill worth dying on.
As someone who knows and works with multiple PhDs, veterinarians, and dentists, I have to disagree with you. ALL OF THEM use Dr on formal written correspondence. The PhDs may not usually be referred to as "Dr so and so" when you talk to them, but for anything that is formal and written, you should always use Dr since it is their formal title.
This.
marie2785. I am a PhD. I know how hard it is to earn one of those degrees.
While it may be nicer to recognize us by using our professional titles socially, it is certainly not expected or a violation of etiquette.
It can be seen as an etiquette violation to those people. There is NO LOGICAL reason why physicians are afforded the courtesy of being referred to socially by Dr. and those with Ph.Ds are not. Physicians and Ph.Ds both have terminal degrees and if those professionals want to be referred to by "Dr." then you should do it.
And before people start up with the "But I have an MBA and I don't demand to be referred to by. . . " well while that's a great achievement, that's not a terminal degree, it's considered a professional degree, and so there isn't a social title related to a master's degree of X.
Lurkers, if you have Ph.Ds on your guest list I suggest you check with them as to how they would like to be referred to on a formal correspondence such as your wedding invitation. If you are inviting lawyers and they wish to be addressed as Blah Blah, Esquire on their invitation, do it. If your aunt Gertrude wants to be referred to as Princess Frou Frou of all Cupcakes then do it. It's no skin off your nose. Who cares what the "technical etiquette" states if you are likely to offend someone?
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
I personally would reprint the invite. Yes your Fi should have proofed the invites, but that ship has sailed. If your Fi brought this up as something that would offend her, then it seems like he would know her reaction best.
I would never want to risk offending a FMIL. The cost of reprinting IMHO would be nothing compared to starting your relationship off on the wrong foot (even though the responsibility is obviously on BOTH people getting married, but still).
Formerly martha1818
Any guests upset that their achievements are not being honored are being special snowflakes and I'm not fussed about them.
If his mother were hosting, of course she'd use whatever title she wanted as the person issuing the invite, but that's clearly not the case.
There is no valid or logical reason why physicians are referred to socially as Dr. but PhDs are not. We'd probably be better off not addressing anyone as Dr. outside of professional situations. . . honestly, what's the point? But, the etiquette "rule" makes zero sense, and it should not be followed if the person on the other end of the invitation/program, etc. is offended by you (general) not using their preferred title.
Because the entire point of etiquette is to ensure you treat people properly, not just to follow what Crane's says even though you are frankly pissing people off.
If we are not going to adapt certain etiquette to modern times or at least adapt them in order not to offend people, then we should all be addressing invitations and other formal mail as Mr. and Mrs. John Doe since that's the traditional etiquette, right? But you all advise people against doing so because women get offended by being referred to by their husband's 1st and last name and not their own. Well to me it's just as offensive to refuse to address someone by their preferred title just because of an obscure, antiquated rule that allows physicians to be some sort of SS that get to use their title whenever they want.
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
H is a pharmacist. He has a doctorate degree, any formal invitation he has received since receiving that degree has been addressed to Dr. Plain Jane's H.
I definitely think it is respectful to address those who have worked so hard for such a distinguished degree as such.
OP, I think you made a mistake here, and should really look into the price of reprinting.
marie2785. I am a PhD. I know how hard it is to earn one of those degrees.
While it may be nicer to recognize us by using our professional titles socially, it is certainly not expected or a violation of etiquette.
It can be seen as an etiquette violation to those people. There is NO LOGICAL reason why physicians are afforded the courtesy of being referred to socially by Dr. and those with Ph.Ds are not. Physicians and Ph.Ds both have terminal degrees and if those professionals want to be referred to by "Dr." then you should do it.
And before people start up with the "But I have an MBA and I don't demand to be referred to by. . . " well while that's a great achievement, that's not a terminal degree, it's considered a professional degree, and so there isn't a social title related to a master's degree of X.
Lurkers, if you have Ph.Ds on your guest list I suggest you check with them as to how they would like to be referred to on a formal correspondence such as your wedding invitation. If you are inviting lawyers and they wish to be addressed as Blah Blah, Esquire on their invitation, do it. If your aunt Gertrude wants to be referred to as Princess Frou Frou of all Cupcakes then do it. It's no skin off your nose. Who cares what the "technical etiquette" states if you are likely to offend someone?
I would like to be called Dr. Princess Fru Fru of Cupcakes please and thank you.
I would like to be called Dr. Princess Fru Fru of Cupcakes please and thank you.
Put it in your siggy or it didn't happen!
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
Signed, a woman in her seventh year of a doctoral program, not including the two years it took her to get her Masters degree.
I don't think it is fair, either, but that is the traditional etiquette.