Josh Duggar

monkeysip

Yeah, this is me in the Duggar debates Ive been having:

monkeysip

^ and I'll probably get banned for that

lyndausvi

banana468 said:

lyndausvi said:

banana468 said:

I got into a discussion with someone on a different forum who believes that Josh Duggar should be compared with husbands who look at porn or go to strip clubs.

I wanted to shake her. 

Pretty sure this how I look right now

Yeah.   It was a Catholic group and I she kept spouting off on how there's an issue with human trafficking.   I'll agree to that with prostitution - especially when it isn't legal but done by a pimp.   But she continued to go on and on and on about how actions between two adults are comparable to something done to a person still old enough to believe in Santa.   

Really.   If my husband is looking at a set of boobs at a bachelor party that should be compared to a guy who is groping his underage sisters while they sleep.

Duh, they are totally the same.    Who doesn't know that sleeping means "I give consent to being groped."

/for lurkers out there pink comic sans fonts means sarcasm.  

banana468

monkeysip said:

Yeah, this is me in the Duggar debates Ive been having:

@monkeysip I know you and I were in the same thread and I had to just stop.    I don't know if the poster was thinking child pornography or the human trafficking and prostitution /  stripping in other countries where it isn't regulated and there are serious human rights violations.    Yes, those are awful.  There are women forced into such things as children against their will.   Child pornography that exists in this country is a violation against children.    

But those are NOT the same thing as a guy going out of town to a legitimate place and getting a lap dance or someone who has a Playboy in the house.     I'm leaving the sin aspect out of this because I'm not going to lay claim to what is the "worst" sin.      But a guy who ogles a woman and looks at a set of naked breasts is NOT the same as someone who is hurting his underage sisters in their sleep repeatedly.   For years.

TrixieJess

banana468 said:

monkeysip said:

Yeah, this is me in the Duggar debates Ive been having:

@monkeysip I know you and I were in the same thread and I had to just stop.    I don't know if the poster was thinking child pornography or the human trafficking and prostitution /  stripping in other countries where it isn't regulated and there are serious human rights violations.    Yes, those are awful.  There are women forced into such things as children against their will.   Child pornography that exists in this country is a violation against children.    

But those are NOT the same thing as a guy going out of town to a legitimate place and getting a lap dance or someone who has a Playboy in the house.     I'm leaving the sin aspect out of this because I'm not going to lay claim to what is the "worst" sin.      But a guy who ogles a woman and looks at a set of naked breasts is NOT the same as someone who is hurting his underage sisters in their sleep repeatedly.   For years.

This is true, but people tend to use it as a Strawman argument when debating these things. I had to write a paper on Child Prostitution in Thailand in school and used stats from War Child and Free the Children websites. They have links to reputable agencies. If you need ammo, these are good places to go. 

Unfortunately, it is the interwebz and common sense and the right thing are not always prevalent.

banana468

Exactly.   And the person seemed to want to lump these people into the same category - just not true and just not fair.     It smacked of someone saying, "I read about this once in school and this is what my textbooks say," 

monkeysip

The fact of the matter is... despite the debate over morality of these issues... going to a strip club is perfectly legal.  You are not required by law to report when someone goes to a strip club.

Molesting a child?  A CRIME that legally NEEDS to be reported!  Even if the perpetrator is a minor, it still needs to be officially documented so both sides can get help.  I was just going nuts with this idea that parents have the right to decide the punishment for something like that themselves.  They do NOT have that right!

hellohkb

monkeysip said:

Yeah, this is me in the Duggar debates Ive been having:

This has also been me. I can't even with these people defending him.

banana468

monkeysip said:

The fact of the matter is... despite the debate over morality of these issues... going to a strip club is perfectly legal.  You are not required by law to report when someone goes to a strip club.

Molesting a child?  A CRIME that legally NEEDS to be reported!  Even if the perpetrator is a minor, it still needs to be officially documented so both sides can get help.  I was just going nuts with this idea that parents have the right to decide the punishment for something like that themselves.  They do NOT have that right!

I totally agree.  I spoke with DH about this and if this happened to us I know it would tear us up inside but that doesn't exempt us from the issue.

And let's not forget how many mandated reporters in this situation who DID NOT REPORT IT!!   

The legality was my point.  Yes, abortion is legal and Catholics protest that as well.   However I can't understand how you can claim to fight for life in one breath while not fight for the victim who is a CHILD in another.   

monkeysip

And that's what this all comes back to for me.  SO much focus on the perpetrator, and none on the victims.  I feel like this is just a sad reflection of our society that the victims never get the attention/help they deserve.

hellohkb

banana468 said:

monkeysip said:

The fact of the matter is... despite the debate over morality of these issues... going to a strip club is perfectly legal.  You are not required by law to report when someone goes to a strip club.

Molesting a child?  A CRIME that legally NEEDS to be reported!  Even if the perpetrator is a minor, it still needs to be officially documented so both sides can get help.  I was just going nuts with this idea that parents have the right to decide the punishment for something like that themselves.  They do NOT have that right!

I totally agree.  I spoke with DH about this and if this happened to us I know it would tear us up inside but that doesn't exempt us from the issue.

And let's not forget how many mandated reporters in this situation who DID NOT REPORT IT!!   

The legality was my point.  Yes, abortion is legal and Catholics protest that as well.   However I can't understand how you can claim to fight for life in one breath while not fight for the victim who is a CHILD in another.   

I could not have said it better, banana!

kaitlynmichelle

I have a few FB friends that are defending Josh.  It makes me rage.  They are all saying he was just a child, he didn't know any better (buuuuuullshit) or that because he was younger and "exploring" it isn't as big of a deal.

I would occasionally watch the show if it was on, but half the time I had a weird wtf look on my face.  I don't think I can ever watch it again without getting angry anytime I see him come onto the screen. 

wandajune6

Irony: http://defamer.gawker.com/duggar-dads-political-platform-incest-should-be-punish-1706929035

Apparently, Jim Bob's 2002 platform included the belief that child molesters should be put to death. His son was molesting his daughter in 2002-2003.

Given that he believes it to be a capital crime, I find it interesting that he thought the appropriate response was to send him out to do manual labor.

lyndausvi

wandajune6 said:

Irony: http://defamer.gawker.com/duggar-dads-political-platform-incest-should-be-punish-1706929035

Apparently, Jim Bob's 2002 platform included the belief that child molesters should be put to death. His son was molesting his daughter in 2002-2003.

Given that he believes it to be a capital crime, I find it interesting that he thought the appropriate response was to send him out to do manual labor.

I saw that.    The hypocrisy coming out of that family is amazing.

redoryx

lyndausvi said:

wandajune6 said:

Irony: http://defamer.gawker.com/duggar-dads-political-platform-incest-should-be-punish-1706929035

Apparently, Jim Bob's 2002 platform included the belief that child molesters should be put to death. His son was molesting his daughter in 2002-2003.

Given that he believes it to be a capital crime, I find it interesting that he thought the appropriate response was to send him out to do manual labor.

I saw that.    The hypocrisy coming out of that family is amazing.

I bet they justify it by saying since there was no penetration it was neither incest nor rape. 

themuffinman16

I can't even believe this.  It is reported (not factual, yet), that the reason TLC is stalling on permanently canceling the show is to make a spinoff show.  Wow!  It's starting to make a lot of sense. I guess they are trying to have a show with the daughters, and a lot of people are embracing it to hear the other side of the story.  Why are people so creepy?

    I am sure this is all JimBob's idea.  He can't let it go.  If those girls had an opinion of their own, I am sure they would not want to deal with the public's knowledge of their abuse in a fishbowl. I can't even believe that TLC cares more about their cash cow than doing what is right. They seriously need to find different talent scouts if this is all they can manage to come up with in the wake of this awful abuse.

lyndausvi

themuffinman16 said:

I can't even believe this.  It is reported (not factual, yet), that the reason TLC is stalling on permanently canceling the show is to make a spinoff show.  Wow!  It's starting to make a lot of sense. I guess they are trying to have a show with the daughters, and a lot of people are embracing it to hear the other side of the story.  Why are people so creepy?

    I am sure this is all JimBob's idea.  He can't let it go.  If those girls had an opinion of their own, I am sure they would not want to deal with the public's knowledge of their abuse in a fishbowl. I can't even believe that TLC cares more about their cash cow than doing what is right. They seriously need to find different talent scouts if this is all they can manage to come up with in the wake of this awful abuse.

I would be down with a s/o show showing the girls telling and then cutting off their parents and brother out of their lives for good.

We know that will never happen.  And  most importantly, they do not need to be living in a fish bowl. 

banana468

I'm not surprised by TLC.   They're a company that exists to make money.   We talk all the time about how TK is going to advise brides to do things that aren't really the right thing.   Why should we expect a television network to put their foot down on this?  (note: I am not saying that wedding etiquette and child molestation are comparable things). 

TLC has been fine with creating televisions series based on the daily lives of others that often involve putting minor children on TV.    I don't really see them as a network  that should be lauded. 

luckya23

I would watch a spin-off, but personally I'm still interested in the other kids, who I have essentially watched grow up, so I hope they don't cut them out. 

It feels like saying especially to the other unmarried girls, "Now you don't have your innocence, independence, OR income!"

[Deleted User]

.

lyndausvi

luckya23 said:

I would watch a spin-off, but personally I'm still interested in the other kids, who I have essentially watched grow up, so I hope they don't cut them out. 

It feels like saying especially to the other unmarried girls, "Now you don't have your innocence, independence, OR income!"

You are assuming they get an income now.   It would not surprise me if JB controls all the money.     

There is no way for the other kids to be on the show also long as they live with their parents.   JB and Michelle are so controlling that even if they were on the show without their parents, their influence would still be there.       JB and Michelle do not allow his kids to have independent thinking.   Which is why they need accountability partners anywhere they go.

While it's not their fault TLC is pulling the plug on the Duggars, it's not TLC responsibility to keep them employed either.

ShesSoCold

lyndausvi said:

luckya23 said:

I would watch a spin-off, but personally I'm still interested in the other kids, who I have essentially watched grow up, so I hope they don't cut them out. 

It feels like saying especially to the other unmarried girls, "Now you don't have your innocence, independence, OR income!"

You are assuming they get an income now.   It would not surprise me if JB controls all the money.     

There is no way for the other kids to be on the show also long as they live with their parents.   JB and Michelle are so controlling that even if they were on the show without their parents, their influence would still be there.       JB and Michelle do not allow his kids to have independent thinking.   Which is why they need accountability partners anywhere they go.

While it's not their fault TLC is pulling the plug on the Duggars, it's not TLC responsibility to keep them employed either.

Even the two recently married girls live in homes owned by JimBob. He's still controlling them, even though he's partially passed the control onto their husbands.

lyndausvi

ShesSoCold said:

lyndausvi said:

luckya23 said:

I would watch a spin-off, but personally I'm still interested in the other kids, who I have essentially watched grow up, so I hope they don't cut them out. 

It feels like saying especially to the other unmarried girls, "Now you don't have your innocence, independence, OR income!"

You are assuming they get an income now.   It would not surprise me if JB controls all the money.     

There is no way for the other kids to be on the show also long as they live with their parents.   JB and Michelle are so controlling that even if they were on the show without their parents, their influence would still be there.       JB and Michelle do not allow his kids to have independent thinking.   Which is why they need accountability partners anywhere they go.

While it's not their fault TLC is pulling the plug on the Duggars, it's not TLC responsibility to keep them employed either.

Even the two recently married girls live in homes owned by JimBob. He's still controlling them, even though he's partially passed the control onto their husbands.

yep.

At least Derrick has a good job (accountant with Wal-Mart).  He has a real degree from an accredited 4 years-university (Univ of AR    OK state).  Not some BS degree from a non-accredited college.   So if they wanted to they could break away and be financially okay.

Ben on the other hand doesn't have the education nor the earning power Derrick potentially has.  I would imagine they are more dependent on JB then Jill and Derrick.

Sadly I do not see them breaking away anytime soon.  Especially Jill, she seems like the pound down the kool-aid.

Jana will never leave because she needs to protect the younger ones from their own parents.    Hopefully Jinger or Joy will make a break for it.  

luckya23

Not that it matters, but Derick went to Oklahoma State University.

lyndausvi

luckya23 said:

Not that it matters, but Derick went to Oklahoma State University.

I stand correct.    

Heffalump

lyndausvi said:

luckya23 said:

I would watch a spin-off, but personally I'm still interested in the other kids, who I have essentially watched grow up, so I hope they don't cut them out. 

It feels like saying especially to the other unmarried girls, "Now you don't have your innocence, independence, OR income!"

You are assuming they get an income now.   It would not surprise me if JB controls all the money.  


------------------------------------------------------------
Well, what would girls do with money, anyway?  Probably just spend it all on immodest shoes.  It's good that they have JimBob looking out for their best interests at all times. 

monkeysip

Immodest shoes like this?  Look at all that TOE CLEAVAGE!  

monkeysip

And... picture fail.  It doesn't seem to be showing up.  So here it is

redoryx

monkeysip said:

And... picture fail.  It doesn't seem to be showing up.  So here it is

Those toes are totally asking for it.

princessleia22

lyndausvi said:

ShesSoCold said:

lyndausvi said:

luckya23 said:

I would watch a spin-off, but personally I'm still interested in the other kids, who I have essentially watched grow up, so I hope they don't cut them out. 

It feels like saying especially to the other unmarried girls, "Now you don't have your innocence, independence, OR income!"

You are assuming they get an income now.   It would not surprise me if JB controls all the money.     

There is no way for the other kids to be on the show also long as they live with their parents.   JB and Michelle are so controlling that even if they were on the show without their parents, their influence would still be there.       JB and Michelle do not allow his kids to have independent thinking.   Which is why they need accountability partners anywhere they go.

While it's not their fault TLC is pulling the plug on the Duggars, it's not TLC responsibility to keep them employed either.

Even the two recently married girls live in homes owned by JimBob. He's still controlling them, even though he's partially passed the control onto their husbands.

yep.

At least Derrick has a good job (accountant with Wal-Mart).  He has a real degree from an accredited 4 years-university (Univ of AR    OK state).  Not some BS degree from a non-accredited college.   So if they wanted to they could break away and be financially okay.

Ben on the other hand doesn't have the education nor the earning power Derrick potentially has.  I would imagine they are more dependent on JB then Jill and Derrick.

Sadly I do not see them breaking away anytime soon.  Especially Jill, she seems like the pound down the kool-aid.

Jana will never leave because she needs to protect the younger ones from their own parents.    Hopefully Jinger or Joy will make a break for it.  

Doesn't Ben actually work for JimBob?  I haven't been an avid watcher of the show, but I recall him being employed by JB.  He moved into an apartment on their property so he didn't have to keep commuting long distance to work each day... and to be closer to Jessa. So, if that's the case, they are 100% dependent on JB for home and all income.