Breaking customs and tradition F.I. is taking my last name .

DarthV8r

So f.i. wants to take my last name.  Will I be a Ms. Or Mrs. After our marriage? 

VulgarGirl

Yup. You will either be a Ms. or a Mrs.

Frankly I say choose whatever one makes you the most happy. My wife took my last name and she switches between Mrs. and Ms.

Jen4948

This is an area where you get to choose.

MyNameIsNot

You'll be whichever you want. 

DarthV8r

Mr and Mrs . Barf burlap and lace , it has a nice ring to it.

CMGragain

Socially, your traditional title is Mrs. John Brideslastname.  For business, most ladies use Mrs. Jane Lastname.  Together you are either Mr. and Mrs. John Brideslastname, or Ms. Jane Brideslastname and Mr. John Brideslastname.
The choice is entirely up to you.

MyNameIsNot

CMGragain said:

Socially, your traditional title is Mrs. John Brideslastname.  For business, most ladies use Mrs. Jane Lastname.  Together you are either Mr. and Mrs. John Brideslastname, or Ms. Jane Brideslastname and Mr. John Brideslastname.
The choice is entirely up to you.

I have to disagree here. Most women that I've come into contact use Ms. for business. I've always been taught that Ms. is the default for business, because marital status is irrelevant. 

A woman certainly has the choice to use Miss/Mrs in the business context, but the majority don't. 

Knottie03777613

I would use Mrs. in a social setting and Ms. in a business setting. I do not think it is inappropriate to use Mrs. if he takes your last name. I think it's great he wants to do that

DarthV8r

What are some examples of a business setting? I'm guessing a social setting would be when I receive an invitation in the mail.

emmaaa

ibarfburlapandlace said:

What are some examples of a business setting? I'm guessing a social setting would be when I receive an invitation in the mail.

I rare;ly have to address myself by Mrs. at work. Most of the time some uses a prefix is in emails TO me. Most of the time it is either Ms. or just my first name.

southernbelle0915

CMGragain said:

Socially, your traditional title is Mrs. John Brideslastname.  For business, most ladies use Mrs. Jane Lastname.  Together you are either Mr. and Mrs. John Brideslastname, or Ms. Jane Brideslastname and Mr. John Brideslastname.
The choice is entirely up to you.

Why? Is his social title Mr. HerFirst HerLast? No? Because he's a man and gets to keep his first name? And she's a woman, so her "title" = his first name? Sexist much? 

I kept my last name, so is my social title Mrs. DHFirstName MyLastName? I would be extremely offended if someone used my DH's first name to address me socially or otherwise. My name is "Jane". Not "John". No matter what my last name is. Thank you very much.

And why on earth would their couple title be Mr and Mrs HISFirst HerLast? Again, because he's the man in the relationship? Again, sexist much?

And FYI, "for business", in my experience most women in the modern business world use Ms. Outside of teachers, I literally do not know one business women who professionally uses 'Mrs.'

CMGr, times have changed and this sexist naming convention really needs to hit the road. Especially now that same sex marriage is legal (hallelujah!). You're going to have a hard time giving advice that's based on women being the property of their husbands.

redoryx

southernbelle0915 said:

CMGragain said:

Socially, your traditional title is Mrs. John Brideslastname.  For business, most ladies use Mrs. Jane Lastname.  Together you are either Mr. and Mrs. John Brideslastname, or Ms. Jane Brideslastname and Mr. John Brideslastname.
The choice is entirely up to you.

Why? Is his social title Mr. HerFirst HerLast? No? Because he's a man and gets to keep his first name? And she's a woman, so her "title" = his first name? Sexist much? 

I kept my last name, so is my social title Mrs. DHFirstName MyLastName? I would be extremely offended if someone used my DH's first name to address me socially or otherwise. My name is "Jane". Not "John". No matter what my last name is. Thank you very much.

And why on earth would their couple title be Mr and Mrs HISFirst HerLast? Again, because he's the man in the relationship? Again, sexist much?

And FYI, "for business", in my experience most women in the modern business world use Ms. Outside of teachers, I literally do not know one business women who professionally uses 'Mrs.'

CMGr, times have changed and this sexist naming convention really needs to hit the road. Especially now that same sex marriage is legal (hallelujah!). You're going to have a hard time giving advice that's based on women being the property of their husbands.

This reminds me of the rules of court. So the spouse of the monarch is known as the consort and there are rules related to titles in that the consort cannot be given a higher title than the monarch. King is always higher than Queen, which is why wives of the monarch are always given the title of Queen. But, Queen Elizabeth is married to Prince Philip because he's her consort and because the current royal line comes through her family, he cannot be made King above her. 

If the man takes the woman's last name, pretty sure that whole "traditional title" thing goes out the window. And if it doesn't, I'll personally throw it out the window myself. #sorrynotsorry 

particuliersylphe

Wow, this is a great question!!! I am glad you posed this, as someone who doesn't plan to take on her fi's last name

CMGragain

MyNameIsNot said:

CMGragain said:

Socially, your traditional title is Mrs. John Brideslastname.  For business, most ladies use Mrs. Jane Lastname.  Together you are either Mr. and Mrs. John Brideslastname, or Ms. Jane Brideslastname and Mr. John Brideslastname.
The choice is entirely up to you.

I have to disagree here. Most women that I've come into contact use Ms. for business. I've always been taught that Ms. is the default for business, because marital status is irrelevant. 

A woman certainly has the choice to use Miss/Mrs in the business context, but the majority don't. 

Whoops!  That was a typo!!!!   Thank you for catching it!  I meant Ms.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

CMGragain

Ladies, you can rant about sexism in etiquette all you want, but that doesn't change etiquette - yet.  When etiquette changes, I will change my advice.  Everybody knows that I always give traditional address forms, as well as the accepted new ones.
I have always been proud to be Mrs. John Doe.  If you want to be called something else, that is your choice, but don't tell me that my choice is wrong or sexist, just because you have a different personal opinion.
I was fighting for women's rights before you were born.

Men have been taking women's last names for centuries, especially in Europe.  This is not all tha new.  The etiquette is already established.

lovegood90

CMGragain said:

Ladies, you can rant about sexism in etiquette all you want, but that doesn't change etiquette - yet.  When etiquette changes, I will change my advice.  Everybody knows that I always give traditional address forms, as well as the accepted new ones.
I have always been proud to be Mrs. John Doe.  If you want to be called something else, that is your choice, but don't tell me that my choice is wrong or sexist, just because you have a different personal opinion.
I was fighting for women's rights before you were born.

I don't give a shit what you were doing when I was born. Your advice on naming convention is no longer valid in today's day and age.

Etiquette is about not offending others and making others comfortable. For myself and most women I know, it IS offensive to be addressed by your husband's name instead of your own.

Maybe it's "traditional" to address a woman the way you're saying, but in TODAY's world, not the world you were in before I was born, it IS against etiquette for some/most people because it IS offensive to some/most people. Get used to the changing times.

CMGragain

lovegood90 said:

CMGragain said:

Ladies, you can rant about sexism in etiquette all you want, but that doesn't change etiquette - yet.  When etiquette changes, I will change my advice.  Everybody knows that I always give traditional address forms, as well as the accepted new ones.
I have always been proud to be Mrs. John Doe.  If you want to be called something else, that is your choice, but don't tell me that my choice is wrong or sexist, just because you have a different personal opinion.
I was fighting for women's rights before you were born.

I don't give a shit what you were doing when I was born. Your advice on naming convention is no longer valid in today's day and age.

Etiquette is about not offending others and making others comfortable. For myself and most women I know, it IS offensive to be addressed by your husband's name instead of your own.

Maybe it's "traditional" to address a woman the way you're saying, but in TODAY's world, not the world you were in before I was born, it IS against etiquette for some/most people because it IS offensive to some/most people. Get used to the changing times.

As I said, when the etiquette books change their advice, so will I.  I will not make up new etiquette to suit my personal likes or dislikes.  The women's movement was and is about CHOICES, not new regulations.
Women have the right to choose how they wish to be addressed.  This means that I, and many, many others, still have the right to be Mrs. John Doe without being accused of sexism.

southernbelle0915

CMGragain said:

Ladies, you can rant about sexism in etiquette all you want, but that doesn't change etiquette - yet.  When etiquette changes, I will change my advice.  Everybody knows that I always give traditional address forms, as well as the accepted new ones.
I have always been proud to be Mrs. John Doe.  If you want to be called something else, that is your choice, but don't tell me that my choice is wrong or sexist, just because you have a different personal opinion.
I was fighting for women's rights before you were born.

Men have been taking women's last names for centuries, especially in Europe.  This is not all tha new.  The etiquette is already established.

Tradition =/= etiquette. We say that here all. the. time. You even say it.

It's perfectly within etiquette to use Ms. Jane Smith as a married woman's social title. And its not within etiquette to offend people. So you might want to start using the word "traditional" to more accurately describe your advice.

Also, etiquette is all about treating people with respect. Sexism and supporting only one type of relationship are not that, so there's another reason "etiquette" doesn't really fit the description of what you're telling people. If you want to stay relevant, you might want to think about that....regardless of what the 50+ year old sources tell you.

lovegood90

CMGragain said:

lovegood90 said:

CMGragain said:

Ladies, you can rant about sexism in etiquette all you want, but that doesn't change etiquette - yet.  When etiquette changes, I will change my advice.  Everybody knows that I always give traditional address forms, as well as the accepted new ones.
I have always been proud to be Mrs. John Doe.  If you want to be called something else, that is your choice, but don't tell me that my choice is wrong or sexist, just because you have a different personal opinion.
I was fighting for women's rights before you were born.

I don't give a shit what you were doing when I was born. Your advice on naming convention is no longer valid in today's day and age.

Etiquette is about not offending others and making others comfortable. For myself and most women I know, it IS offensive to be addressed by your husband's name instead of your own.

Maybe it's "traditional" to address a woman the way you're saying, but in TODAY's world, not the world you were in before I was born, it IS against etiquette for some/most people because it IS offensive to some/most people. Get used to the changing times.

As I said, when the etiquette books change their advice, so will I.  I will not make up new etiquette to suit my personal likes or dislikes.  The women's movement was and is about CHOICES, not new regulations.
Women have the right to choose how they wish to be addressed.  This means that I, and many, many others, still have the right to be Mrs. John Doe without being accused of sexism.


The reason you're being "accused" of sexism is because the advice you are giving IS sexist and offensive to a lot of people. You don't get to brush that off as a simple "personal like or dislike."

If you want to keep giving this advice, at least own that it's offensive and outdated. You absolutely do not get to pass it off as ettiquette when etiquette is about NOT offending people.

CMGragain

All this is your own opinions.  When the etiquette books change, so will I, but I will not take the personal opinions of a few ladies as fact when they are not.
There is nothing wrong with Ms. Jane Doe.  That was a typo, and I apologized for it a while back.
Go back and read my original post on this thread.  I gave several CHOICES.  I have never objected to people prefering something different, and I DID say "traditional".  Sorry about the typo, though.

I do not object to Ms. Jane Doe, or Ms. Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe.  I even listed them as one of the choices.  So what are you arguing about?

I do object to someone telling me that my own personal preference is sexist.  Bull.  If you get a choice about your name, then so do I about mine.

CMGragain

CMGragain said:

Socially, your traditional title is Mrs. John Brideslastname.  For business, most ladies use Mrs. Jane Lastname.  Together you are either Mr. and Mrs. John Brideslastname, or Ms. Jane Brideslastname and Mr. John Brideslastname.
The choice is entirely up to you.

The bolded was the typo.  I meant to type Ms.

kmmssg

I will have to break with Miss Manners for this one.  If I EVER get mail addressed to Mrs. John Doe instead of Mrs. Jane Doe I will politely correct the sender.  I find Mrs John Doe INCREDIBLY offensive.  I would be very kind about it but I would bring it up.  And if the same sender decided to address me that way again on a piece of mail I would have to sit for a moment and decide if "return to sender" would be appropriate as no one of that name lives here.  I am very proud to be married to my husband and If  you send me your wedding invitation addressed to Mr. and Mrs John Doe I have no problem with that.  That being said, my name has never been John and I an not Mrs. John Anybody!

CMGragain

Exactly!....and  you have that CHOICE!  I support it 100%.

southernbelle0915

CMGragain said:

All this is your own opinions.  When the etiquette books change, so will I, but I will not take the personal opinions of a few ladies as fact when they are not.
There is nothing wrong with Ms. Jane Doe.  That was a typo, and I apologized for it a while back.
Go back and read my original post on this thread.  I gave several CHOICES.  I have never objected to people prefering something different, and I DID say "traditional".  Sorry about the typo, though.

I do not object to Ms. Jane Doe, or Ms. Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe.  I even listed them as one of the choices.  So what are you arguing about?

I do object to someone telling me that my own personal preference is sexist.  Bull.  If you get a choice about your name, then so do I about mine.

It IS sexist though. You suggested that a woman who keeps her last name still has the social title "Mrs. John HerLastName". 

First of all, that's not even correct. If I'm a woman who keeps my last name (I happen to be), my social title is "Ms. Jane MyLastName". 

Second of all, the notion that a woman's social title changes (even if she keeps her last name) to include her husband's first name, yet a man's title doesn't change at all is inherently sexist. 

Assigning certain roles and rules based on sex is exactly the definition of sexism. I'm sorry if you don't like to think of this view as sexist, but that's exactly what it is. 

CMGragain

southernbelle0915 said:

CMGragain said:

All this is your own opinions.  When the etiquette books change, so will I, but I will not take the personal opinions of a few ladies as fact when they are not.
There is nothing wrong with Ms. Jane Doe.  That was a typo, and I apologized for it a while back.
Go back and read my original post on this thread.  I gave several CHOICES.  I have never objected to people prefering something different, and I DID say "traditional".  Sorry about the typo, though.

I do not object to Ms. Jane Doe, or Ms. Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe.  I even listed them as one of the choices.  So what are you arguing about?

I do object to someone telling me that my own personal preference is sexist.  Bull.  If you get a choice about your name, then so do I about mine.

It IS sexist though. You suggested that a woman who keeps her last name still has the social title "Mrs. John HerLastName". 

First of all, that's not even correct. If I'm a woman who keeps my last name (I happen to be), my social title is "Ms. Jane MyLastName". 

Second of all, the notion that a woman's social title changes (even if she keeps her last name) to include her husband's first name, yet a man's title doesn't change at all is inherently sexist. 

Assigning certain roles and rules based on sex is exactly the definition of sexism. I'm sorry if you don't like to think of this view as sexist, but that's exactly what it is. 

Sorry, but the standard etiquette books disagree with you.  I have the option to use Mrs. John Doe, and this is still the default title.  Your choice is just as valid, and you are also correct in using it as your choice.
You do not have the right to judge someone else's preference.  I do not judge yours.

southernbelle0915

CMGragain said:

southernbelle0915 said:

CMGragain said:

All this is your own opinions.  When the etiquette books change, so will I, but I will not take the personal opinions of a few ladies as fact when they are not.
There is nothing wrong with Ms. Jane Doe.  That was a typo, and I apologized for it a while back.
Go back and read my original post on this thread.  I gave several CHOICES.  I have never objected to people prefering something different, and I DID say "traditional".  Sorry about the typo, though.

I do not object to Ms. Jane Doe, or Ms. Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe.  I even listed them as one of the choices.  So what are you arguing about?

I do object to someone telling me that my own personal preference is sexist.  Bull.  If you get a choice about your name, then so do I about mine.

It IS sexist though. You suggested that a woman who keeps her last name still has the social title "Mrs. John HerLastName". 

First of all, that's not even correct. If I'm a woman who keeps my last name (I happen to be), my social title is "Ms. Jane MyLastName". 

Second of all, the notion that a woman's social title changes (even if she keeps her last name) to include her husband's first name, yet a man's title doesn't change at all is inherently sexist. 

Assigning certain roles and rules based on sex is exactly the definition of sexism. I'm sorry if you don't like to think of this view as sexist, but that's exactly what it is. 

Sorry, but the standard etiquette books disagree with you.  I have the option to use Mrs. John Doe, and this is still the default title.  Your choice is just as valid, and you are also correct in using it as your choice.
You do not have the right to judge someone else's preference.  I do not judge yours.


Please cite where in your "standard etiquette books" it says that my social title is Mrs. John MyLastName.

CMGragain

This is the most liberal guide I use:  http://www.emilypost.com/communication-and-technology/social-names-and-titles/293-womens-names-and-titles

redoryx

CMGragain said:

This is the most liberal guide I use:  http://www.emilypost.com/communication-and-technology/social-names-and-titles/293-womens-names-and-titles

You do realize that none of those examples address the current situation at hand, which is when a man takes the woman's last name. You can tell from the hyphenated examples in the second part that the imaginary woman has the maiden name of Johnson, so the question at hand is if Jane married John and they are both now Johnson. 

CMGragain

Yes, this thread got hijacked when I was called "sexist" because of my personal choice and my advice, which is backed up by current etiquette guides.
As I posted earlier, a man taking the woman's last name has been done for centuries, especially in Europe.  The rules do not change, whichever last name the couple chooses.  Choice is what the woman's movement was/is all about!

southernbelle0915

CMGragain said:

This is the most liberal guide I use:  http://www.emilypost.com/communication-and-technology/social-names-and-titles/293-womens-names-and-titles

Again, please cite a standard etiquette source that backs up what you said here about a woman who keeps her last name and a man who changes his. And why her title would be Mrs. John HerLast. Your link provides nothing in that (unless I'm missing it, please point it out).

Also, Emily Post is old school, dead, and her kids/grandkids have basically hijacked her name to make money. You've said as much yourself on various occasions.

CMGragain

southernbelle0915 said:

This is the most liberal guide I use:  http://www.emilypost.com/communication-and-technology/social-names-and-titles/293-womens-names-and-titles

Again, please cite a standard etiquette source that backs up what you said here about a woman who keeps her last name and a man who changes his. And why her title would be Mrs. John HerLast. Your link provides nothing in that (unless I'm missing it, please point it out). Also, Emily Post is old school, dead, and her kids/grandkids have basically hijacked her name to make money. You've said as much yourself on various occasions.

This is not the same question you asked me.  You just can't admit that you are wrong, can you?  This information is straight off the modern internet site.  Shame on your for making up new rules.
My original post answered the OP's question, and I doubt she is still around after reading all the nonsense on this thread.
I'm done!  I have answered both your last question and the OP's original question!