S/O: Kids And Priorities

themosthappy91

So the thread about the poster whose friend was bringing her kid along to a girls' lunch got me thinking about a controversy I somewhat followed several years ago, and I thought it'd be interesting to get y'alls take on it.

I want to say it was a columnist in a major newspaper who got in hot water for writing something about how ultimately she loves her husband more than she loves her kids. A lot of people got really mad about that, said she was a bad mom, said it was "unnatural" to feel that way... it caught my attention because I've always wondered if I'll feel that way.

I don't have kids so I definitely don't know firsthand, but I've always kind of felt like I can't imagine loving anyone more than my H/being kind of concerned about having kids because I feel like it will be wrong if I don't love them more than I love my H. 

What do y'all think? For those of you who do have kids, does it seem really weird to think about a mom not loving her kids more than her H?

ETA: Found the link to the original column: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/fashion/truly-madly-guiltily.html?_r=0

Jen4948

I think it shouldn't be a competition. One should be able to love them all equally.

WinstonsGirl

I don't have kids, so it's maybe not the best perspective.  

I think the love you have for SO's and kids is different.  And I really think that your relationship with your SO should be a priority (not necessarily over your kids priorities, but it should be one of them).  Having a good relationship with a SO will give you someone close to lean on in raising kids, which can be hard and stressful at times.  As well, as kids grow, they're learning what relationships look like.  Having a strong relationship with your SO is going to teach kids what a loving respectful relationship looks like.  If you ignore it, drift apart and end up fighting, arguing, etc., kids will see that and think it's normal.  People who can fight, talk it out and work it out are setting up that example for their kids to emulate when they're older.  

And I'm not saying single parents can't do this, but I can see how saying that you love your SO more than your kids can come into play.  They're 2 different types of love in my opinion.  You choose your SO.  You don't choose your kids

monkeysip

I think it's really different.  It's a different kind of love.  I feel like I will always be closer to H, in the sense that he is my companion.  My mate for life, my best friend through everything.  But DD is flesh of my flesh...  I brought her into this word, and she's my child.  

As for who to put first... again, it's different.  A lot of times, practically speaking, children have to come first.  They can't meet their own needs.  They require your attention and care.  But that doesn't mean children should always be put first in your life.  You should definitely put your marriage first ultimately because children thrive best when their parents have a healthy, loving marriage.  And you also don't want to be strangers when your children move out one day, you know?

I admit it's hard though, I think especially since DD is only 13 months.  I can't just tell her to go play by herself in her room so Daddy and Mommy can spend time together, you know?  But I think it's about putting your marriage first in the long run, if not every day,

[Deleted User]

Personally, I find it bizarre when I hear anyone say they love their child(ren) more than their spouse.

I wish I could articulate why, but it BLOWS MY MIND.

julieanne912

WinstonsGirl said:

I don't have kids, so it's maybe not the best perspective.  

I think the love you have for SO's and kids is different.  And I really think that your relationship with your SO should be a priority (not necessarily over your kids priorities, but it should be one of them).  Having a good relationship with a SO will give you someone close to lean on in raising kids, which can be hard and stressful at times.  As well, as kids grow, they're learning what relationships look like.  Having a strong relationship with your SO is going to teach kids what a loving respectful relationship looks like.  If you ignore it, drift apart and end up fighting, arguing, etc., kids will see that and think it's normal.  People who can fight, talk it out and work it out are setting up that example for their kids to emulate when they're older.  

And I'm not saying single parents can't do this, but I can see how saying that you love your SO more than your kids can come into play.  They're 2 different types of love in my opinion.  You choose your SO.  You don't choose your kids

QFT

themosthappy91

Jen4948 said:

I think it shouldn't be a competition. One should be able to love them all equally.

But that's the point- I think that very rarely actually happens. Maybe you SHOULD "be able to love them all equally"- but I think a lot of people would tell you honestly they love one more than the other.

themosthappy91

Okay so to clarify something since I was late adding the link and am foreseeing getting a lot of very neutral "love for an SO and love for your kids are not stronger or weaker, just different"- the point of the column at its very heart is that if this woman had to pick someone to die, her husband or her kids, she would pick kids. So I think that's where a lot of the "unnatural" accusations came from at the time- lacking the biological imperative to favor your children over your mate in that fundamental way. Just wanted to clarify that, since I think that's taking a much stronger stance than what I necessarily presented it as at first.

monkeysip

I'll be honest, I DO find it odd to choose your husband's life over your child.  But that's just because I feel like part of the role of parent is protection.  Children have their whole life ahead of them, and the natural order is that parents will die before their children.  So H and I both feel that we'd put saving DD over saving each other.  But that does NOT mean that we love her more than we love each other.

And maybe that's just my view.  Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, and it's perfectly fine to choose your spouse's life over your child.  I'm just giving my POV.

[Deleted User]

themosthappy91 said:

Okay so to clarify something since I was late adding the link and am foreseeing getting a lot of very neutral "love for an SO and love for your kids are not stronger or weaker, just different"- the point of the column at its very heart is that if this woman had to pick someone to die, her husband or her kids, she would pick kids. So I think that's where a lot of the "unnatural" accusations came from at the time- lacking the biological imperative to favor your children over your mate in that fundamental way. Just wanted to clarify that, since I think that's taking a much stronger stance than what I necessarily presented it as at first.

My mom said she'd pick me and my brother dying over my dad. No hard feelings.

julieanne912

I'm kidless right now, but I know my mom would choose my brother and I over my dad.  And he would have made the same choice (he actually has died already).  But that still doesn't mean you love one more than the other.  

photokitty

I don't have kids yet, but I wonder if it's like this...
You love your mom, bc she's your mom. You don't choose your parents, siblings or kids. But you choose your spouse. Its totally different.

In a life and death situation, God forbid, I'd want DH to save our kids over me, and I'm sure he'd say the same. I would want him to honor my choice and I'm sure he would say the same. When we have kids im sure we will discuss it.

southernbelle0915

My kid isn't born yet but I love H more than the kid. Honestly, I haven't felt super maternal like a lot of people describe. Maybe that will change when I meet the little guy. Who knows? Also the love so far is just different. Like, I love my parents and my sister, I love my friends and I love DH. But it's different. I imagine it'll be like that with kids too.

monkeysip

southernbelle0915 said:

My kid isn't born yet but I love H more than the kid. Honestly, I haven't felt super maternal like a lot of people describe. Maybe that will change when I meet the little guy. Who knows? Also the love so far is just different. Like, I love my parents and my sister, I love my friends and I love DH. But it's different. I imagine it'll be like that with kids too.

I didn't feel very maternal during pregnancy, or even for the first 6 or so months of DD's life.  I'm still not like "OMG I love babies".  But I love MY baby, and I think I'm very protective of her.  And she's only over a year.  I think that love definitely deepens over time.

CMGragain

I have heard that the Greek language has five different words for "love", where English has only one.
I don't love my children more than my husband, but I love them differently.  They are all like the fingers of my hand.  Together, they are a part of my life, and I love them all as much as I possibly can love.  Each is different from the other, just as my love for them is different for each person.

banana468

It took me a while to feel a bond to DD. I didn't have an instant connection to her when she was born although I did when I was pregnant. PP hormones played a big part.

I have a different kind of love for my kids compared to my husband. And right now, attending to their needs is a priority. But I will prioritize my marriage over the wants of my child. That doesn't mean I'll spend far less on them for Christmas. It does mean that if they want to an activity that may stretch us to the point that DH and I have no time for each other, we may have to come up with creative solutions or say no.

My great marriage helps me be a great parent.

AddieCake

As PPs said, children have needs they can't always tend to themselves, so you have to put them first a lot. However, far too many people end up putting their children's needs not only ahead of their spouse's or the needs of the marriage, but also become neglectful of the spouse and the marriage. They choose one over the other routinely until the marriage is just some secondary aspect of home life. It becomes all about the kids. It shouldn't, and I don't like that. I would hope I wouldn't fall into that rut. As Banana said, having a great marriage makes her a great parent. I like that concept.

YogaSandy

southernbelle0915 said:

My kid isn't born yet but I love H more than the kid. Honestly, I haven't felt super maternal like a lot of people describe. Maybe that will change when I meet the little guy. Who knows?

Also the love so far is just different. Like, I love my parents and my sister, I love my friends and I love DH. But it's different. I imagine it'll be like that with kids too.

I didn't either while pregnant. I cried because I thought that made me a bad mom. However, as soon as DS was laid on my chest I loved him more than anything. I have also read that it is common for many moms to not feel that at first, either, and that doesn't make you a bad mom.

YogaSandy

Also on the kids have needs that we need to take care of thought:

DH had a deadly disease (once diagnosed, it can be treated, undiagnosed, I'm pretty sure it can't). DS was <2 months old and had colic. Now, I tell people all the time, you might think you know what colic is. However, if you've never been through it, you have no idea. And he ate every two hours. My mom moved in to help me. So DH gets sick. He was complaining of being sick, got misdiagnosed with pneumonia for weeks. I couldn't help him. I couldn't take care of him. Because of DS (and my own exhaustion and PP issues), there was nothing I could do. When he was in the hospital and they thought they knew what was wrong and were preparing to medi-vac him out, I was a mess. We still didn't know what the matter was for sure, but knew it was serious. I had helped him zero. I never felt so awful and guilty in my life. But I told him, I was/am only able to take care of one of you, and if I don't take care of DS, he dies. That evening I moved in with my parents. DH moved in a week later, when he was out of the hospital. We stayed for two weeks after that. Then DH was on the mend (off work for another two months) and the colic had ended. I was then able to help them both and life got back to normal (well, DS still ate every two hours).

Heffalump

I'm coming down on the side of saving the kids over the husband.  (Sorry, DH.)  I think a lot of it is instinct.  Do I love them more than I love him?  Definitely not.  But with kids, there's the strong sense of being needed, and I think it triggers a feeling of responsibility that you (probably) wouldn't feel toward someone who is a capable, independent adult.  Plus, for lack of a better term, I kind of feel like I owe my kids something:  if I brought you into this world, it's my job to get you to the point where you can fend for yourself.  If that makes sense.  (I wonder how I would answer this if my kids were grown?)

@southernbelle0915, I heard something once by an evolutionary biologist who was talking about parenting, and he said "We don't care for children because we love them, we love them because we care for them."  Basically that the daily nurturing (incl. breastfeeding for those who do, but not just breastfeeding) stimulates bonding.  I felt the way that you do when I was pregnant with DS (2nd pregnancy) but not DD (1st).  I couldn't imagine loving him as much as I loved DD, I didn't talk to him all the time in utero like I did with DD, and I was worried that I was going to be a shitty mom who loved one kid more than the other.  Then he was born and that was definitely not the case.   

Jen4948

themosthappy91 said:

Jen4948 said:

I think it shouldn't be a competition. One should be able to love them all equally.

But that's the point- I think that very rarely actually happens. Maybe you SHOULD "be able to love them all equally"- but I think a lot of people would tell you honestly they love one more than the other.

I know for a fact that my parents love each other more than either loves me-which is okay and how it should be. I also think they love each other more than either of them loves my brother-and again that's how it should be.

My mom was recently diagnosed with cancer. My father had just started a new job he seemed to really enjoy, but he retired permanently (he had come out of retirement to take that job) to take care of my mother. She would have done the same for him. But while neither of them would have neglected me or my brother, neither of them would ever have put me or my brother first in their lives. When they see us or help us out, they go out of their way to make clear that they're doing us a favor-and it's always been like that. Maybe if they didn't my brother and I would take them for granted-which wouldn't be good for anyone.

Maggie0829

I agree with everything monkeysip has said.  I don't have kids but I honestly don't think I would be able to choose between my H and my children as to who should die.  In my hypothetical Mom mind they are all a part of me and my life so to choose would be impossible.  But then again I don't think I would have to decide this because H would probably sacrifice himself before I would even have to consider choosing.  And same with me because I think protecting your offspring is just a natural reaction, so in the end there is really no choice to make because your instincts have already made that choice for you.

But I do think that many times parents let their marriage slide to last on the list of things to worry about, so their relationship starts to suffer.  Yes, you need to put your children first with the basic needs that they cannot provide for themselves, but it is important to show them how a strong and loving relationship should be, so your marriage should always be at the top of the list. And like Banana said, I believe a great, solid marriage or relationship helps people to be even better parents.

TrixieJess

I think the thing is, your relationship with your partner changes once you have a child. It's not just you and them, it's you and them and child. It's completely dynamic. You have to make a lot of effort to maintain your relationship once there is a child because that baby is completely dependent on you for EVERYTHING. Your partner can do things for themselves and sometimes they get taken for granted. 

For those of you without children, it boggles your mind how a child could change things so much, but it does. Even if you have a partner who shares completely in the responsibility of care, you still have a connection to your child and may not want to leave your child for long periods of time. Your child may go through separation anxieties where you are the only one who can calm them. You may have an overly sensitive child who only wants you. You don't know until you have children. 

themosthappy91

It's so interesting/cool to me that we have such a diverse and relatively balanced groups of opinions on this subject- from what I recall when that column first came out it was like 90% people who couldn't even fathom loving their SOs more than their kids versus 10% who were very quietly like "yeah I get that..." I wonder why it is as a group Knotties are so different than the general public on this issue?

Maggie0829

TrixieJess said:

I think the thing is, your relationship with your partner changes once you have a child. It's not just you and them, it's you and them and child. It's completely dynamic. You have to make a lot of effort to maintain your relationship once there is a child because that baby is completely dependent on you for EVERYTHING. Your partner can do things for themselves and sometimes they get taken for granted. 

For those of you without children, it boggles your mind how a child could change things so much, but it does. Even if you have a partner who shares completely in the responsibility of care, you still have a connection to your child and may not want to leave your child for long periods of time. Your child may go through separation anxieties where you are the only one who can calm them. You may have an overly sensitive child who only wants you. You don't know until you have children. 

I don't have children, but no it does not boggle my mind that a child can change things so much. Everything you listed makes complete sense and is something that I have thought about or have seen with my sister and other people around me who have had children. Yeah I may not know every minute detail of what it is like to have a child until I may have one, but don't think that people who don't have children have no clue at all.

ETA:  Hence why deciding to have children is such a difficult thing for H and I to make.  We know that our lives will change drastically and know that it will be the hardest thing that we ever decide to do which is why we have conversation after conversation about what we really want and if this is something that we are willing to take on and completely change our lives for.

emmaaa

I'm not a mom so I can't say exactly how I would feel. But I imagine, like other PPs have said, I think the love for my husband will be equal but different than that of my children. My husband is my intimate partner, then one I confide in and my best friend. My children will be those I care for, my flesh, and that I willingly made the choice to bring into this world. It's a different type of love.

Now, if it came to having to choose which i would let die. I would say myself. If that isn't acceptable, I'd pick my husband. I assume, I will feel a natural instinct to protect my children. 

redwoodoriginal

Maggie0829 said:

TrixieJess said:

I think the thing is, your relationship with your partner changes once you have a child. It's not just you and them, it's you and them and child. It's completely dynamic. You have to make a lot of effort to maintain your relationship once there is a child because that baby is completely dependent on you for EVERYTHING. Your partner can do things for themselves and sometimes they get taken for granted. 

For those of you without children, it boggles your mind how a child could change things so much, but it does. Even if you have a partner who shares completely in the responsibility of care, you still have a connection to your child and may not want to leave your child for long periods of time. Your child may go through separation anxieties where you are the only one who can calm them. You may have an overly sensitive child who only wants you. You don't know until you have children. 

I don't have children, but no it does not boggle my mind that a child can change things so much. Everything you listed makes complete sense and is something that I have thought about or have seen with my sister and other people around me who have had children. Yeah I may not know every minute detail of what it is like to have a child until I may have one, but don't think that people who don't have children have no clue at all.

ETA:  Hence why deciding to have children is such a difficult thing for H and I to make.  We know that our lives will change drastically and know that it will be the hardest thing that we ever decide to do which is why we have conversation after conversation about what we really want and if this is something that we are willing to take on and completely change our lives for.

QFT. Same here to the bolded. While I haven't personally experienced it, I know a kid changes everything. That's why we've actively NOT had children yet, b/c we aren't ready for those changes (yet). 

luckya23

I really wish there were some men in here to see what they think.  I know my mom would choose us "kids" to live, but I think my dad would choose my mom.

southernbelle0915

@Heffalump - yes, exactly! I took a sociology class in college that touched on exactly that. Very basic and evolutionary, but makes so much sense.

lyndausvi

The thing about kids vs spouse it's tends to be an Ebb and Flo type thing. When the kid is young you have no choice to take care of them more than your spouse. You are the protector.  You might even love them more during that time. 

 However, once they hit a certain age the kids are on their own.  They leave the nest, get married, start having their own kids.   Then it's just you and your spouse left.   There needs to be a balance between the 2.    If you devote everything to the kid and put your spouse last for 18 years you might lose your spouse.  

My sister and her husband have always had a good balance.  Sure back when the kids were small it was all about them, but they made sure they had date nights once a month.   They would go away for a day or 2 just the two them.   Now the kids are older and driving, they do dates nights all the time.    They still like each other.   That is because they treated marriage and parenting equally, even though at times life was more about the kids.

As far as saving the kid, as a society we all tend to save a kid before an adult anyway.   Regardless if it's your kid or someone else's.  It's just what we tend to do.

OliveOilsMom

Ditto everything Monkeysip said, I don't think I could have said it better.  We are TTC, so we have had many discussions of what we want our relationship to be when we have kids.  We know that someday the kids will leave and then its back to just us.  We want to be able to still have the same relationship we have now as when the kids leave the nest.

My H's friends have one child.  She was their entire world!  They took her on all of the anniversary dinners, vacations, etc.  Some of the things I've heard are crazy.  There was never any time without her.  She is now 22 years old.  I think mom has accepted that she's 22 and they can't do everything with her anymore.  But dad is constantly about having family nights every Saturday, where the 3 of them do something together.  Dad & daughter even took a recent long weekend together to Niagra Falls because he felt they were growing apart and needed to have bonding time.  H & I are constantly saying how we never want to be them.