Women in Politics

glasgowtolondon

Anyone else a little in awe of the prospect of the potential for women in 10 Downing St and in The White House? I've been ill so whilst I'm laid here, bored out of my head I've been mainlining the news (theres been a LOT of it in the UK since that silly thing we did 2wks ago). 

In the UK it looks like the race for our next prime minister will be between Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom. Scotlands first minister is a woman, and UK wide we also have 4 other sizeable parties lead by women. In November it looks like you guys in the US will most likely elect HRC, and from what I've read it may even be an all female ticket. I know not everyone agrees with the politics of each candidate - I certainly don't - but I'm also excited about the fact that we are at a point where women are stepping up and being counted. Sure, I still have to read about what fucking shoes Theresa May had on but at least we're also taking about whether she has the ability to lead our country. 

I guess I just feel like recently things have been going backwards in the UK. It's cheering me to think that actually, some things are going in the direction they should be.

lyndausvi

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

 I fucking hate Hilary.   I do not trust her one bit.     I also hate Trump.  The choices this election just plainly sucks for me.     

Sadly, I haven't been paying much attention to the UK race lately to know, but I think it's great a woman might win, but it's not a major factor for me.  Meaning I do not get all giddy just because a woman won.

ei34

That's great about the UK (though I don't know much about the politicians you mentioned).  I'm excited about Hillary but because she's Hillary...Sarah Palin back in '08 I didn't like.  (I'm all for a woman as long as it's the right one.) And it'd be awesome if Hil goes with Elizabeth Warren as her VP.

glasgowtolondon

@lyndausvi I'm not saying I think they should or should not win due to their gender. I agree that the person should be the right person. I'm saying I'm pleased that we are at a point where this is even a choice. I think we're saying the same thing but I just want to be really clear that I am definitely not saying lets elect anyone so long as they are female.

TrixieJess

Considering the last female UK PM was Thatcher...I'm a little sceptical about women in politics

Seriously though, most westernised countries have mixed parliaments and women who head the major parties. None of this should come as a surprise. 

MCmeow

I also can't stand Hillary, I wouldn't vote for her or Trump if my life depended on it. It will not be a historical moment in history to me. Another privileged person in power screwing over the middle class and people of color, nothing new. I see why some people are excited but most of the country is pissed at the options =\ at least Jill Stein (Green Party) has a better chance this year than she ever had, a true feminist I could be excited about

lyndausvi

Ugg.   I hate how much emphasis is put on high profile women's clothes.

Sure I will comment on WTF was she thinking wearing that, but the media takes it to another level.   They insert details on attire at the most random places.   "while wearing a $3000 pant suit Hilary was outlying her policy on [insert whatever]. " 

WTF does her pantsuit have to do with the policy?   Not a god damn thing, that's what. 

glasgowtolondon

TrixieJess said:

Considering the last female UK PM was Thatcher...I'm a little sceptical about women in politics

Seriously though, most westernised countries have mixed parliaments and women who head the major parties. None of this should come as a surprise. 

Yes damn those women. I hear they are all the same! It shouldn't surprise me, but it has to a certain extent.

lyndausvi

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding. (eta - which was after he was convicted and did 18 months jail time)

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

MCmeow

lyndausvi said:

Ugg.   I hate how much emphasis is put on high profile women's clothes.

Sure I will comment on WTF was she thinking wearing that, but the media takes it to another level.   They insert details on attire at the most random places.   "while wearing a $3000 pant suit Hilary was outlying her policy on [insert whatever]. " 

WTF does her pantsuit have to do with the policy?   Not a god damn thing, that's what. 

I agree, clothing choice shouldn't have anything to do with it and it's annoying how they focus on women when criticizing clothing. In this case I think she was wearing a $12k jacket while talking about income and wealth inequality which is extremely hypocritical and silly when trying to make a point. Ideas should reflect actions, Hillary sucks at that. But in that case we should absolutely criticize Trump and his clothing choice as well, while he panders to people who are obviously poor.

glasgowtolondon

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

So for you this upcoming election is, as my BFF likes to say, the choice between shit and vomit? Who would you vote for in a situation like that? Does the US have any other parties that run? I only ever hear of independent candidates outwith the rep/dem parties.

MCmeow

glasgowtolondon said:

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

So for you this upcoming election is, as my BFF likes to say, the choice between shit and vomit? Who would you vote for in a situation like that? Does the US have any other parties that run? I only ever hear of independent candidates outwith the rep/dem parties.

We have the green and libertarian parties too (and independents). And a few more that aren't as well known I believe

edit: and the issue with these extra parties is although they are more true to their beliefs and truthful to their constituents they are not corporate parties, so they purposefully don't get as much attention from the media, they aren't allowed in debates. The Green Party candidate Jill stein was once arrested for trying to get into a debate. 'Murica

lyndausvi

glasgowtolondon said:

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

So for you this upcoming election is, as my BFF likes to say, the choice between shit and vomit? Who would you vote for in a situation like that? Does the US have any other parties that run? I only ever hear of independent candidates outwith the rep/dem parties.

Well first we need to see who is actually running.   Not just the rep/dem (although they seem to be a lock), but the independents.

Then I will have until Nov 8th to decide (well a little sooner than that because I might  be out of the country on the 8th).        

charlotte989875

Love or hate these particular candidates for executive office, but descriptive representation matters. And having more women in office has real consequences for women's' (and certainly men's) lives. 

We have evidence from a varieties of democratic nations that women are more productive in the legislature (sponsoring more bills), they work across party more often than their male counterparts, and they sponsor more legislation that deals with socio-economic issues. Additionally in countries where there are higher numbers of women in political office there are better family leave policies, more money spent on education, more attention and policies dedicated to poverty which disproportionally affects women. We also have preliminary research that shows when women are involved in post-war peace negotiations signed peace agreements last longer. 

There is very real gender bias toward female candidates in the US (sorry UK ladies I don't know the research there as well), that consistently shows Americans believe women are less qualified for office, even when they have the same or better skills and qualifications. 

charlotte989875

glasgowtolondon said:

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

So for you this upcoming election is, as my BFF likes to say, the choice between shit and vomit? Who would you vote for in a situation like that? Does the US have any other parties that run? I only ever hear of independent candidates outwith the rep/dem parties.

We have a two party system and while bird party candidates can (and have) run in national elections they have little to no significance. The "why" of that has more to do with the fact that we have single-member district plurality systems which leads (almost always) to a two party system. No other party has the institutional or financial power to really make a legitimate run for the presidency. Even the best known third party candidate, Ross Perot in 1992 who won 18.9% of the vote, did not win any electoral college votes. 

STARMOON44

charlotte989875 said:

Love or hate these particular candidates for executive office, but descriptive representation matters. And having more women in office has real consequences for women's' (and certainly men's) lives. 

We have evidence from a varieties of democratic nations that women are more productive in the legislature (sponsoring more bills), they work across party more often than their male counterparts, and they sponsor more legislation that deals with socio-economic issues. Additionally in countries where there are higher numbers of women in political office there are better family leave policies, more money spent on education, more attention and policies dedicated to poverty which disproportionally affects women. We also have preliminary research that shows when women are involved in post-war peace negotiations signed peace agreements last longer. 

There is very real gender bias toward female candidates in the US (sorry UK ladies I don't know the research there as well), that consistently shows Americans believe women are less qualified for office, even when they have the same or better skills and qualifications. 

Yup. You see it even here- a simple oh hey look at this fun coincidence is met with calling a qualified dedicated woman shit or vomit. I completely get not everyone likes her! I don't buy for a second that a major part of that is gender. 

STARMOON44

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

And yet you are friends with people who have taken his money. 

STARMOON44

I'm quite excited. There's so much research that says you don't really start to see the impact of women in leadership until there is a significant number of them in power. The idea of a G8 summit with mostly women at the head of the table interests me.  

STARMOON44

MCmeow said:

glasgowtolondon said:

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

So for you this upcoming election is, as my BFF likes to say, the choice between shit and vomit? Who would you vote for in a situation like that? Does the US have any other parties that run? I only ever hear of independent candidates outwith the rep/dem parties.

We have the green and libertarian parties too (and independents). And a few more that aren't as well known I believe

edit: and the issue with these extra parties is although they are more true to their beliefs and truthful to their constituents they are not corporate parties, so they purposefully don't get as much attention from the media, they aren't allowed in debates. The Green Party candidate Jill stein was once arrested for trying to get into a debate. 'Murica

Yup. In 'Murica you don't get to force your way into a party you weren't invited to. What constituents? The Green Party hasn't even managed to get a congressional representative elected? There's more to it than just the evil media rigging things. 

glasgowtolondon

STARMOON44 said:

charlotte989875 said:

Love or hate these particular candidates for executive office, but descriptive representation matters. And having more women in office has real consequences for women's' (and certainly men's) lives. 

We have evidence from a varieties of democratic nations that women are more productive in the legislature (sponsoring more bills), they work across party more often than their male counterparts, and they sponsor more legislation that deals with socio-economic issues. Additionally in countries where there are higher numbers of women in political office there are better family leave policies, more money spent on education, more attention and policies dedicated to poverty which disproportionally affects women. We also have preliminary research that shows when women are involved in post-war peace negotiations signed peace agreements last longer. 

There is very real gender bias toward female candidates in the US (sorry UK ladies I don't know the research there as well), that consistently shows Americans believe women are less qualified for office, even when they have the same or better skills and qualifications. 

Yup. You see it even here- a simple oh hey look at this fun coincidence is met with calling a qualified dedicated woman shit or vomit. I completely get not everyone likes her! I don't buy for a second that a major part of that is gender. 

Um, I believe I said that for Lynda to believe that both candidates were equally as bad as each other was FOR HER, the choice between two equally bad things - shit and vomit.

STARMOON44

glasgowtolondon said:

STARMOON44 said:

charlotte989875 said:

Love or hate these particular candidates for executive office, but descriptive representation matters. And having more women in office has real consequences for women's' (and certainly men's) lives. 

We have evidence from a varieties of democratic nations that women are more productive in the legislature (sponsoring more bills), they work across party more often than their male counterparts, and they sponsor more legislation that deals with socio-economic issues. Additionally in countries where there are higher numbers of women in political office there are better family leave policies, more money spent on education, more attention and policies dedicated to poverty which disproportionally affects women. We also have preliminary research that shows when women are involved in post-war peace negotiations signed peace agreements last longer. 

There is very real gender bias toward female candidates in the US (sorry UK ladies I don't know the research there as well), that consistently shows Americans believe women are less qualified for office, even when they have the same or better skills and qualifications. 

Yup. You see it even here- a simple oh hey look at this fun coincidence is met with calling a qualified dedicated woman shit or vomit. I completely get not everyone likes her! I don't buy for a second that a major part of that is gender. 

Um, I believe I said that for Lynda to believe that both candidates were equally as bad as each other was FOR HER, the choice between two equally bad things - shit and vomit.

Mmmhhhmmm.  And she objected so strenuously to that characterization. 

glasgowtolondon

STARMOON44 said:

I'm quite excited. There's so much research that says you don't really start to see the impact of women in leadership until there is a significant number of them in power. The idea of a G8 summit with mostly women at the head of the table interests me.  

Edit ugh I had a whole thing written and it just disappeared!

It's the numbers that excite me the most. I did not expect our race in the UK to be between (most likely) two women. I just expected the same old, same old. The more we have women stepping up to the plate, the more normal this becomes and it presents a very interesting option for the future of our political systems.

STARMOON44

glasgowtolondon said:

STARMOON44 said:

I'm quite excited. There's so much research that says you don't really start to see the impact of women in leadership until there is a significant number of them in power. The idea of a G8 summit with mostly women at the head of the table interests me.  

Edit ugh I had a whole thing written and it just disappeared!

It's the numbers that excite me the most. I did not expect our race in the UK to be between (most likely) two women. I just expected the same old, same old. The more we have women stepping up to the plate, the more normal this becomes and it presents a very interesting option for the future of our political systems.

Exactly. I hated Sarah Palin, but I think it was exciting to see her candidacy. Mediocre lying cheating prostitute-buying abusive incompetent men have no problem throwing their hat in the ring. I'm happy to see women giving it a try, and hope it will encourage more to follow. 

lyndausvi

STARMOON44 said:

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

And yet you are friends with people who have taken his money. 

Well, it's a little more complicated than that.  

Jeffery did a lot of construction on the island at the time.  These friends were just labor workers (maintenance, landscaping, construction, etc).  While they saw high profile people come and go, they were not privy to what was really going on until he was arrested in Palm Beach.   

 It's not like they were talking to all the bikini clad girls around.  Or talking to Prince Andrew or Bill on what they were doing there.  They didn't even have access to the main house.   The island is a pretty good size, if they were doing work on the other side of the island they wouldn't see anyone.

At 7:30 they were picked up on St Thomas and taken to the island by ferry.  At 4:30-ish every day they went back to STT.    Only the island manager and a chef (neither of which I was friends with, but knew who they were) stayed on the island.   Which I suspect is when the partying started.

They all had to sign a confidentiality agreement.  It was only after the arrest did they start piecing things together.   

Jeffery didn't live on the island full time (he had to be there at least 180 days though for tax reasons). He has places in NY and Palm Beach. If he was on the island he had the American Flag raised.  Yep, just the like the queen.  If he was in residence he the flag was up. 

TrixieJess

glasgowtolondon said:

TrixieJess said:

Considering the last female UK PM was Thatcher...I'm a little sceptical about women in politics

Seriously though, most westernised countries have mixed parliaments and women who head the major parties. None of this should come as a surprise. 

Yes damn those women. I hear they are all the same! It shouldn't surprise me, but it has to a certain extent.

LOL, they should have a tongue in cheek emoji. I'm an equal opportunity political mocker. I feel that if you are an idiot of either gender representing your country, you deserve all the hate thrown at you. 

Maybe it's the Canadian in me where we don't pick the person, we pick the party, I'm more concerned about the long game in politics and the effect rather than the one person in charge. However, that's the beauty of the parliamentary system here (and the UK), if you don't like the leader, that can be changed out yet the party stands. 

charlotte989875

TrixieJess said:

glasgowtolondon said:

TrixieJess said:

Considering the last female UK PM was Thatcher...I'm a little sceptical about women in politics

Seriously though, most westernised countries have mixed parliaments and women who head the major parties. None of this should come as a surprise. 

Yes damn those women. I hear they are all the same! It shouldn't surprise me, but it has to a certain extent.

LOL, they should have a tongue in cheek emoji. I'm an equal opportunity political mocker. I feel that if you are an idiot of either gender representing your country, you deserve all the hate thrown at you. 

Maybe it's the Canadian in me where we don't pick the person, we pick the party, I'm more concerned about the long game in politics and the effect rather than the one person in charge. However, that's the beauty of the parliamentary system here (and the UK), if you don't like the leader, that can be changed out yet the party stands. 

Maybe it's because one person does have such power in the US system that the person is integral to vote choice. 

However most of the research on women in politics comes from parliamentary systems with PR electoral systems. The effect of quotas in parliaments and in cabinets has been huge for women. And now that some parties are adopting rules to alternate men and women on party lists has put so many more women in office, which has results in many of the policies I posted about earlier. 

thisismynickname2

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

 I fucking hate Hilary.   I do not trust her one bit.     I also hate Trump.  The choices this election just plainly sucks for me.     

Sadly, I haven't been paying much attention to the UK race lately to know, but I think it's great a woman might win, but it's not a major factor for me.  Meaning I do not get all giddy just because a woman won.

Agreed.

Also, #Johnson2016 #JohnsonWeld2016 << cough cough ahem >> #teamgov

ETA: Third party candidates don't get a lot of attention, but I feel like this could be the year to break ground. Only the Libertarian will be on the ballot in all 50 states and people are disgusted enough with both Trump and Clinton to consider other parties. Often people vote for D or R just so the opposing party doesn't win. The Libertarian is likely to take disenfranchised voters from both the D and R pools this time so that lesser of two evils vote may not really apply here. I really don't know anything about the Green Party, but I do think this election cycle is going to be fascinating. 

badbnagdway

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

STARMOON44

thisismynickname said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

 I fucking hate Hilary.   I do not trust her one bit.     I also hate Trump.  The choices this election just plainly sucks for me.     

Sadly, I haven't been paying much attention to the UK race lately to know, but I think it's great a woman might win, but it's not a major factor for me.  Meaning I do not get all giddy just because a woman won.

Agreed.

Also, #Johnson2016 #JohnsonWeld2016 << cough cough ahem >> #teamgov

ETA: Third party candidates don't get a lot of attention, but I feel like this could be the year to break ground. Only the Libertarian will be on the ballot in all 50 states and people are disgusted enough with both Trump and Clinton to consider other parties. Often people vote for D or R just so the opposing party doesn't win. The Libertarian is likely to take disenfranchised voters from both the D and R pools this time so that lesser of two evils vote may not really apply here. I really don't know anything about the Green Party, but I do think this election cycle is going to be fascinating. 

I think third party candidates already are- Bernie isn't a Democrat. Trump isn't a Republican. They are both classic third party candidates using the system to their advantage. 

lyndausvi

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

MCmeow

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)