Women in Politics

thisismynickname2

STARMOON44 said:

thisismynickname said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

 I fucking hate Hilary.   I do not trust her one bit.     I also hate Trump.  The choices this election just plainly sucks for me.     

Sadly, I haven't been paying much attention to the UK race lately to know, but I think it's great a woman might win, but it's not a major factor for me.  Meaning I do not get all giddy just because a woman won.

Agreed.

Also, #Johnson2016 #JohnsonWeld2016 << cough cough ahem >> #teamgov

ETA: Third party candidates don't get a lot of attention, but I feel like this could be the year to break ground. Only the Libertarian will be on the ballot in all 50 states and people are disgusted enough with both Trump and Clinton to consider other parties. Often people vote for D or R just so the opposing party doesn't win. The Libertarian is likely to take disenfranchised voters from both the D and R pools this time so that lesser of two evils vote may not really apply here. I really don't know anything about the Green Party, but I do think this election cycle is going to be fascinating. 

I think third party candidates already are- Bernie isn't a Democrat. Trump isn't a Republican. They are both classic third party candidates using the system to their advantage. 

Interesting way to look at it and I agree. The American public is brainwashed to vote for D, R or nothing though. I want a non-D and non-R affiliated candidate to get some electoral votes for once. 

And I think Lynda was being facetious about not being a feminist. Feminist isn't a dirty word at all to me or any conservative I know. It's the fact that if we don't automatically support a woman because we have the same anatomy, we're accused of not being feminist. Eye roll.  Similarly, and in this case, by virtue of not voting for the D-ticket one could easily call me a racist. Eye roll. 

Wish people could just find and vote for a candidate with whom they mostly, if not necessarily exclusively, identify with and not be called names and have silly accusations hurled at them. 

charlotte989875

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

It's just not conservatives that make it hard to label yourself as a feminist. It took me a long time to identify that way, mainly because I had some run ins with people who believed that any woman who was married, or compromised with a man about career/families/life goals/finances/whatever or who wanted to stay at home with the children were only doing so because of patriarchy and not because they were there own choices and those were positions I couldn't get behind. It took me a long time to define feminism for myself. 

Women can be supportive of equality and not label themselves as feminists, but I really hope that those of us who are feminists model a label that is appealing to all types of women. 

charlotte989875

thisismynickname said:

STARMOON44 said:

thisismynickname said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

 I fucking hate Hilary.   I do not trust her one bit.     I also hate Trump.  The choices this election just plainly sucks for me.     

Sadly, I haven't been paying much attention to the UK race lately to know, but I think it's great a woman might win, but it's not a major factor for me.  Meaning I do not get all giddy just because a woman won.

Agreed.

Also, #Johnson2016 #JohnsonWeld2016 << cough cough ahem >> #teamgov

ETA: Third party candidates don't get a lot of attention, but I feel like this could be the year to break ground. Only the Libertarian will be on the ballot in all 50 states and people are disgusted enough with both Trump and Clinton to consider other parties. Often people vote for D or R just so the opposing party doesn't win. The Libertarian is likely to take disenfranchised voters from both the D and R pools this time so that lesser of two evils vote may not really apply here. I really don't know anything about the Green Party, but I do think this election cycle is going to be fascinating. 

I think third party candidates already are- Bernie isn't a Democrat. Trump isn't a Republican. They are both classic third party candidates using the system to their advantage. 

Interesting way to look at it and I agree. The American public is brainwashed to vote for D, R or nothing though. I want a non-D and non-R affiliated candidate to get some electoral votes for once. 

And I think Lynda was being facetious about not being a feminist. Feminist isn't a dirty word at all to me or any conservative I know. It's the fact that if we don't automatically support a woman because we have the same anatomy, we're accused of not being feminist. Eye roll.  Similarly, and in this case, by virtue of not voting for the D-ticket one could easily call me a racist. Eye roll. 

Wish people could just find and vote for a candidate with whom they mostly, if not necessarily exclusively, identify with and not be called names and have silly accusations hurled at them. 

I really don't think it's brainwashing so much as our electoral rules are set up in such a way that produces a two-party system. It doesn't have to be D and R and we've had party switches in the past, but as long as we have winner take all systems (as opposed to proportional representation systems) third parties will not be a viable option. Even Bernie Sanders had to run in the D primary and Trump had to sign the R pledge in order to be taken seriously. 

MCmeow

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

glasgowtolondon said:

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

So for you this upcoming election is, as my BFF likes to say, the choice between shit and vomit? Who would you vote for in a situation like that? Does the US have any other parties that run? I only ever hear of independent candidates outwith the rep/dem parties.

We have the green and libertarian parties too (and independents). And a few more that aren't as well known I believe

edit: and the issue with these extra parties is although they are more true to their beliefs and truthful to their constituents they are not corporate parties, so they purposefully don't get as much attention from the media, they aren't allowed in debates. The Green Party candidate Jill stein was once arrested for trying to get into a debate. 'Murica

Yup. In 'Murica you don't get to force your way into a party you weren't invited to. What constituents? The Green Party hasn't even managed to get a congressional representative elected? There's more to it than just the evil media rigging things. 

But do you know how it ended up that way? Journalists used to hold politicians accountable but now corporations own them. Anyway, Since 1960 when debates began Reps and Dems excluded any third party candidate during debates and would only allow them in if they polled over 5%, then it became 10%, now 15%. This became a chicken and egg thing, how can a third party candidate get exposure without getting into a debate, how can they get into a debate without he exposure? It's undemocratic any way you look at it. The American public should be educated on their choices instead of yelling about what they said on Twitter.

STARMOON44

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

Yup. Not sexist at all. If what you mean is she isn't progressive enough, say that. But nah just go ahead and call her supporters silly. "Silly" isn't a gendered critique at all. I don't think not supporting Hillary is anti-feminist. I think the level of hate some people have absolutely is. 

MCmeow

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

Yup. Not sexist at all. If what you mean is she isn't progressive enough, say that. But nah just go ahead and call her supporters silly. "Silly" isn't a gendered critique at all. I don't think not supporting Hillary is anti-feminist. I think the level of hate some people have absolutely is. 

Not sure how silly became sexist but ok, pretty sure I called people who claimed to not vote for Hillary is sexist are silly because they have no idea what sexism is. Also for many of us, our hate for her is justified. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact she supports the TPP, privatized prisons, fracking (I rather my children have a beautiful earth to grow up in, she doesn't care about that), LGBT rights after it was cool, etc. there are many problematic things about her and there are people such as myself that have every reason to not stand her and people like her and it has nothing to do with gender, obviously.

badbnagdway

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

I am a feminist and a fan of HRC. BUT, I do not support candidates (at any level) only because of their gender (or race). When HRC was running against Obama in the primaries 8 years ago I voted for Obama because I liked his passion and he seemed to me to be more progressive at the time. 

IMHO, women should support other women but I think of that more globally - you can dislike a female candidate and still support the idea that she should have a fair shot and not be discriminated against or subjected to sexist comments just because she is a woman. The clothing thing that was mentioned is a good example - you can hate HRC and still think it is ridiculous that anyone comments on what she is wearing and how much it cost or that she wore the same color as another woman on stage. Same with Sarah Palin - I do not like or agree with her but I also don't like it when people demean her based on her appearance and gender. 

My point being - don't be afraid to say you are a feminist and that you support gender equality. You don't have to agree with all the female voices to agree that female voices should be heard. 

STARMOON44

MCmeow said:

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

Yup. Not sexist at all. If what you mean is she isn't progressive enough, say that. But nah just go ahead and call her supporters silly. "Silly" isn't a gendered critique at all. I don't think not supporting Hillary is anti-feminist. I think the level of hate some people have absolutely is. 

Not sure how silly became sexist but ok, pretty sure I called people who claimed to not vote for Hillary is sexist are silly because they have no idea what sexism is. Also for many of us, our hate for her is justified. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact she supports the TPP, privatized prisons, fracking (I rather my children have a beautiful earth to grow up in, she doesn't care about that), LGBT rights after it was cool, etc. there are many problematic things about her and there are people such as myself that have every reason to not stand her and people like her and it has nothing to do with gender, obviously.

I completely agree with you that there are plenty of non-sexist reasons not to vote with her. I wish people were more careful to actually rely on those. 

STARMOON44

MCmeow said:

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

Yup. Not sexist at all. If what you mean is she isn't progressive enough, say that. But nah just go ahead and call her supporters silly. "Silly" isn't a gendered critique at all. I don't think not supporting Hillary is anti-feminist. I think the level of hate some people have absolutely is. 

Not sure how silly became sexist but ok, pretty sure I called people who claimed to not vote for Hillary is sexist are silly because they have no idea what sexism is. Also for many of us, our hate for her is justified. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact she supports the TPP, privatized prisons, fracking (I rather my children have a beautiful earth to grow up in, she doesn't care about that), LGBT rights after it was cool, etc. there are many problematic things about her and there are people such as myself that have every reason to not stand her and people like her and it has nothing to do with gender, obviously.

Also I'm curious- given that list of issues with her, would you pick her over Trump? He's got all of those too, plus rampant bigotry and a complete lack of knowledge or skill. 

MCmeow

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

Yup. Not sexist at all. If what you mean is she isn't progressive enough, say that. But nah just go ahead and call her supporters silly. "Silly" isn't a gendered critique at all. I don't think not supporting Hillary is anti-feminist. I think the level of hate some people have absolutely is. 

Not sure how silly became sexist but ok, pretty sure I called people who claimed to not vote for Hillary is sexist are silly because they have no idea what sexism is. Also for many of us, our hate for her is justified. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact she supports the TPP, privatized prisons, fracking (I rather my children have a beautiful earth to grow up in, she doesn't care about that), LGBT rights after it was cool, etc. there are many problematic things about her and there are people such as myself that have every reason to not stand her and people like her and it has nothing to do with gender, obviously.

Also I'm curious- given that list of issues with her, would you pick her over Trump? He's got all of those too, plus rampant bigotry and a complete lack of knowledge or skill. 

I'm in a very blue state which will go to her anyway. So I'm voting green, I just cannot vote against my conscience, or vote out of fear. Honestly we (progressives) lose either way, the deportations will continue (Thanks Obama), drone strikes will continue on innocent Muslims, and we will get into another war, and people will still become homeless due to medical bills. Bernie tried but according to the new DNC leaks they never gave him a chance, at least he changed a lot. No choice but to look towards 2020, I'll keep fighting for what I believe in no matter what. Congrats to you and other HRC supporters though (no sarcasm, as pissed as I am, I still believe in people voting fair and square and having the right to choose their candidate no matter how much I disagree with them)

HereForThePartyGK

I'm voting for Princess Twilight Sparkle

STARMOON44

MCmeow said:

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

Yup. Not sexist at all. If what you mean is she isn't progressive enough, say that. But nah just go ahead and call her supporters silly. "Silly" isn't a gendered critique at all. I don't think not supporting Hillary is anti-feminist. I think the level of hate some people have absolutely is. 

Not sure how silly became sexist but ok, pretty sure I called people who claimed to not vote for Hillary is sexist are silly because they have no idea what sexism is. Also for many of us, our hate for her is justified. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact she supports the TPP, privatized prisons, fracking (I rather my children have a beautiful earth to grow up in, she doesn't care about that), LGBT rights after it was cool, etc. there are many problematic things about her and there are people such as myself that have every reason to not stand her and people like her and it has nothing to do with gender, obviously.

Also I'm curious- given that list of issues with her, would you pick her over Trump? He's got all of those too, plus rampant bigotry and a complete lack of knowledge or skill. 

I'm in a very blue state which will go to her anyway. So I'm voting green, I just cannot vote against my conscience, or vote out of fear. Honestly we (progressives) lose either way, the deportations will continue (Thanks Obama), drone strikes will continue on innocent Muslims, and we will get into another war, and people will still become homeless due to medical bills. Bernie tried but according to the new DNC leaks they never gave him a chance, at least he changed a lot. No choice but to look towards 2020, I'll keep fighting for what I believe in no matter what. Congrats to you and other HRC supporters though (no sarcasm, as pissed as I am, I still believe in people voting fair and square and having the right to choose their candidate no matter how much I disagree with them)

Thanks- really interesting. 

badbnagdway

MCmeow said:

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

STARMOON44 said:

MCmeow said:

lyndausvi said:

badbnagdway said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess I'm not a feminist.  I do not vote on gender.  I just want the best person.  If it's a woman, great.  If it's a man, great.  

Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Do you believe women and men should not have equal rights and opportunities? 

Being a feminist does not mean that you agree with every feminist school of thought or every feminist group, it means you believe in that basic idea. It drives me crazy that conservatives have run such a thorough smear campaign to make "feminist" a dirty word. 

I very much so believe in equal rights for all.  I just don't get all giddy over women winning elections or getting certain jobs like a lot of others do.  I just want the right person for the job.  

I've also been called anti-feminist because I hate Hilary.    Because apparently some women think that if you are anti-Hilary your are anti-equal rights for women.  

Hillary is pretty borderline-anti-woman herself so don't listen to those silly people.

edit: that comment may get pro-hil people fired up but what I mean is she's not progressive enough, including on women's issues (especially people of color)

Yup. Not sexist at all. If what you mean is she isn't progressive enough, say that. But nah just go ahead and call her supporters silly. "Silly" isn't a gendered critique at all. I don't think not supporting Hillary is anti-feminist. I think the level of hate some people have absolutely is. 

Not sure how silly became sexist but ok, pretty sure I called people who claimed to not vote for Hillary is sexist are silly because they have no idea what sexism is. Also for many of us, our hate for her is justified. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fact she supports the TPP, privatized prisons, fracking (I rather my children have a beautiful earth to grow up in, she doesn't care about that), LGBT rights after it was cool, etc. there are many problematic things about her and there are people such as myself that have every reason to not stand her and people like her and it has nothing to do with gender, obviously.

Also I'm curious- given that list of issues with her, would you pick her over Trump? He's got all of those too, plus rampant bigotry and a complete lack of knowledge or skill. 

I'm in a very blue state which will go to her anyway. So I'm voting green, I just cannot vote against my conscience, or vote out of fear. Honestly we (progressives) lose either way, the deportations will continue (Thanks Obama), drone strikes will continue on innocent Muslims, and we will get into another war, and people will still become homeless due to medical bills. Bernie tried but according to the new DNC leaks they never gave him a chance, at least he changed a lot. No choice but to look towards 2020, I'll keep fighting for what I believe in no matter what. Congrats to you and other HRC supporters though (no sarcasm, as pissed as I am, I still believe in people voting fair and square)

I like Bernie a lot and admired much of his campaign until its death throes. I was undecided until at least after the second Democratic debate, I thought Bernie outperformed Hillary in the first debate. I agree with Bernie in some respects but overall did not find his actual plans convincing. 

I also would deem myself progressive but I guess my pragmatism takes over these days. I live in a red state that will probably fall to the Republican candidate, even if it's Trump. I see first hand every day the Islamophobia/homophobia/racism/isolationism that has become a part of the Republican party. It is very scary. The RNC has totally lost control of its own party, they pandered to and harbored hatred for too long and now this big segment of voters who have voted against their economic interest for years has essentially defected and nominated Trump. No one knows WTF Trump will do - he never stands by anything he says.  

If you look at where we are now as Obama gets ready to leave office I believe we are better off and more progressive policy wise then when he took office - overall. I don't agree with everything he's done (drone strikes certainly are a glaring example, they cause harm and create more terrorists) but I also believe that slow progress is better than no progress. I also wish he had managed to do something on immigration but I don't think that's for lack of trying. I believe HRC will continue in that vein - slow progress - and make good Supreme Court justice appointments. 

spockforprez

glasgowtolondon said:

lyndausvi said:

So Bill Clinton is friends with Jeffery Epstein.    Jeffery owns a private island in the USVI.  I have friends who worked there.  I've snorkeled by the island many, many, many times.        

 Jeffery is a pedophile.   He had sex slaves.  He paid teens to give him massages with happy endings.       Bill came to the island a few times.   He rode in Jeffery's plane many times around the world.   Jeffery was invited (and attended) Chelsea's wedding.

Sorry, I do not trust a family who can be friends with someone like him.

So for you this upcoming election is, as my BFF likes to say, the choice between shit and vomit? Who would you vote for in a situation like that? Does the US have any other parties that run? I only ever hear of independent candidates outwith the rep/dem parties.

I don't know. I'm definitely NOT voting for Trump or Hillary. I'm not a huge fan of Gary Johnson, either. I will probably vote for Jill Stein or write in Bernie Sanders - he's not my favorite either, but I don't know what else to do. I am certainly not going to not vote... this sucks!

kimmiinthemitten

badbnagdway said:

I am a feminist and a fan of HRC. BUT, I do not support candidates (at any level) only because of their gender (or race). When HRC was running against Obama in the primaries 8 years ago I voted for Obama because I liked his passion and he seemed to me to be more progressive at the time. 

IMHO, women should support other women but I think of that more globally - you can dislike a female candidate and still support the idea that she should have a fair shot and not be discriminated against or subjected to sexist comments just because she is a woman. The clothing thing that was mentioned is a good example - you can hate HRC and still think it is ridiculous that anyone comments on what she is wearing and how much it cost or that she wore the same color as another woman on stage. Same with Sarah Palin - I do not like or agree with her but I also don't like it when people demean her based on her appearance and gender. 

My point being - don't be afraid to say you are a feminist and that you support gender equality. You don't have to agree with all the female voices to agree that female voices should be heard. 

I will vote for HRC, and despite not being 100% in love with her (for many of the reasons other people listed here) I'm excited about the potential for a woman President.  Quite frankly, it's embarrassing how many nations elected women before we even had one serious candidate.

However, I do believe that much of the venom that comes with her name, is because she is a woman who has dared to strive for power.  If HRC was a man of a different name, he'd be raked over the coals for being soft on crime and bad for business.

In reality, she's the same as every other major politician over the past couple decades.  Ronald Reagan had a Benghazi type overseas conflict.  George Bush "lost" 5 million emails.  Rice and Powell used personal email servers as SOS.  Donald Trump wears expensive suits.  All of the jokes about Lewinsky still, despite how many elected, married men who have been exposed as cheaters.  I mean Gingrich was in the middle of having an affair of his own during the Clinton impeachment trial and is in consideration for Trumps VP.  Obama opposed the Iraq War but didn't change many of the leaders in charge of it and expanded drone use.

I did my college research paper on a woman's chance to win the White House (pre-911 which changed everything).  The truth is is that people won't have confidence in any woman's ability to hold any position until they see it.  Studies showed that the American peoples confidence in a woman's ability to do the job increased significantly just from the show Commander in Chief.  Melissa Meyer and Sheryl Sandberg have changed the way we can speak about women in the workplace.  High profile jobs matter and a female POTUS will have a trickle down effect for women everywhere who want to advance their careers.

Edited to eliminate the quote tree.

kmmssg

Pretend I have said pretty much everything @lyndausvi has said.

I can promise you no one hates Hillary more than I do.  I am not a trump fan by any stretch of the imagination but I will vote for him with the utmost reluctance.  It is no secret I am pretty conservative.  Trump is by NO means what I would want for a candidate.  I have MANY conservative friends who refuse to vote for him.  I fear the outcome will be handing the election to Hillary because the "party" will split.

The biggest problem with this election is that one of them is going to win.

STARMOON44

kmmssg said:

Pretend I have said pretty much everything @lyndausvi has said.

I can promise you no one hates Hillary more than I do.  I am not a trump fan by any stretch of the imagination but I will vote for him with the utmost reluctance.  It is no secret I am pretty conservative.  Trump is by NO means what I would want for a candidate.  I have MANY conservative friends who refuse to vote for him.  I fear the outcome will be handing the election to Hillary because the "party" will split.

The biggest problem with this election is that one of them is going to win.

You choose to associate with a party that's dialed up the ignorant racism to a 10 for 8 years, he is who you get. It's hard to imagine going from John McCain to Donald Trump but Republicans managed it.  He makes Mitt Romney look like a good call. 

MCmeow

As Democrats moved to the right, republicans did the same, republicans are stubborn in nature and try their best to not look like democrats at all. Republicans used to be somewhat reasonable and even more liberal than most modern establishment democrats (not that I think republicans were ever correct in their views). We live in sad times.

I blame Trump on the corporate greed of both parties

kimmiinthemitten

STARMOON44 said:

You choose to associate with a party that's dialed up the ignorant racism to a 10 for 8 years, he is who you get. It's hard to imagine going from John McCain to Donald Trump but Republicans managed it.  He makes Mitt Romney look like a good call. 

My boss, who is a true independent, swing voter and I joked about this yesterday.  I jested that I was sorry for all of the bad things I said about McCain and Romney and would take it all back in exchange for one of them having the nomination.

With that said, I think the GOP is what shot itself in the foot in both of those elections.  Both candidates had amazing dual party appeal, but had to pander to the party and as a result, became shells of what made them successful politicians in the first place.  I'd love to hear their thoughts on "if they could do it again."

kmmssg

STARMOON44 said:

kmmssg said:

Pretend I have said pretty much everything @lyndausvi has said.

I can promise you no one hates Hillary more than I do.  I am not a trump fan by any stretch of the imagination but I will vote for him with the utmost reluctance.  It is no secret I am pretty conservative.  Trump is by NO means what I would want for a candidate.  I have MANY conservative friends who refuse to vote for him.  I fear the outcome will be handing the election to Hillary because the "party" will split.

The biggest problem with this election is that one of them is going to win.

You choose to associate with a party that's dialed up the ignorant racism to a 10 for 8 years, he is who you get. It's hard to imagine going from John McCain to Donald Trump but Republicans managed it.  He makes Mitt Romney look like a good call. 

Just because I am conservative doesn't mean I am a fan of the current Republican party.  It just means I am conservative - which I have no problem with.

STARMOON44

kmmssg said:

STARMOON44 said:

kmmssg said:

Pretend I have said pretty much everything @lyndausvi has said.

I can promise you no one hates Hillary more than I do.  I am not a trump fan by any stretch of the imagination but I will vote for him with the utmost reluctance.  It is no secret I am pretty conservative.  Trump is by NO means what I would want for a candidate.  I have MANY conservative friends who refuse to vote for him.  I fear the outcome will be handing the election to Hillary because the "party" will split.

The biggest problem with this election is that one of them is going to win.

You choose to associate with a party that's dialed up the ignorant racism to a 10 for 8 years, he is who you get. It's hard to imagine going from John McCain to Donald Trump but Republicans managed it.  He makes Mitt Romney look like a good call. 

Just because I am conservative doesn't mean I am a fan of the current Republican party.  It just means I am conservative - which I have no problem with.

Which is why I said "choose to associate" not "be a fan." If you are voting for Trump, you are part of the problem. 

badbnagdway

STARMOON44 said:

kmmssg said:

STARMOON44 said:

kmmssg said:

Pretend I have said pretty much everything @lyndausvi has said.

I can promise you no one hates Hillary more than I do.  I am not a trump fan by any stretch of the imagination but I will vote for him with the utmost reluctance.  It is no secret I am pretty conservative.  Trump is by NO means what I would want for a candidate.  I have MANY conservative friends who refuse to vote for him.  I fear the outcome will be handing the election to Hillary because the "party" will split.

The biggest problem with this election is that one of them is going to win.

You choose to associate with a party that's dialed up the ignorant racism to a 10 for 8 years, he is who you get. It's hard to imagine going from John McCain to Donald Trump but Republicans managed it.  He makes Mitt Romney look like a good call. 

Just because I am conservative doesn't mean I am a fan of the current Republican party.  It just means I am conservative - which I have no problem with.

Which is why I said "choose to associate" not "be a fan." If you are voting for Trump, you are part of the problem. 

Agree. You do not have to vote for Trump because you are conservative or have always voted Republican. My H has NEVER voted for a Democrat in his life and dislikes HRC but will be voting for her over Trump (and would have voted for her over Cruz too). Trump is not a Republican - he is a liar who is using and exploiting the party's weaknesses to increase his fame. I would really like to see Republican leaders - like Ryan, stand up and say that they have harbored ignorance and hate for too long, that they will not support Trump and are willing to lose the election and start re-building a party willing to serve the American people. 

emmaaa

badbnagdway said:

STARMOON44 said:

kmmssg said:

STARMOON44 said:

kmmssg said:

Pretend I have said pretty much everything @lyndausvi has said.

I can promise you no one hates Hillary more than I do.  I am not a trump fan by any stretch of the imagination but I will vote for him with the utmost reluctance.  It is no secret I am pretty conservative.  Trump is by NO means what I would want for a candidate.  I have MANY conservative friends who refuse to vote for him.  I fear the outcome will be handing the election to Hillary because the "party" will split.

The biggest problem with this election is that one of them is going to win.

You choose to associate with a party that's dialed up the ignorant racism to a 10 for 8 years, he is who you get. It's hard to imagine going from John McCain to Donald Trump but Republicans managed it.  He makes Mitt Romney look like a good call. 

Just because I am conservative doesn't mean I am a fan of the current Republican party.  It just means I am conservative - which I have no problem with.

Which is why I said "choose to associate" not "be a fan." If you are voting for Trump, you are part of the problem. 

Agree. You do not have to vote for Trump because you are conservative or have always voted Republican. My H has NEVER voted for a Democrat in his life and dislikes HRC but will be voting for her over Trump (and would have voted for her over Cruz too). Trump is not a Republican - he is a liar who is using and exploiting the party's weaknesses to increase his fame. I would really like to see Republican leaders - like Ryan, stand up and say that they have harbored ignorance and hate for too long, that they will not support Trump and are willing to lose the election and start re-building a party willing to serve the American people. 

You also don't HAVE to vote for HRC (like many democrats have said they will not vote for her) just because you are a liberal or have always voted Democrat.

Personally, I don't know if I can sacrifice my morals and go against my conscience to vote for Donald Trump. I also know, that I will never support HRC. I hate the idea that we are strictly a two party system when our founders warned us against. So many people are more worried about being loyal to their party versus being loyal to the issues and what they believe in.

If we are ever going to get out of this two party setup, this will be the election year to make it happen.

kimmiinthemitten

I do think there is a difference between voting for Hillary because you align with the party vs voting for Trump for the same reason.

Hillary is a run of the mill awful politician in the same way most of them are.

Trump is a racist, sexist, bully who encourages violence, doesn't value diplomacy, and who is praised by Putin and Kim Jong Un.  Had any other nominee won, including Cruz, I would totally understanding voting with the party.

charlotte989875

kimmiinthemitten said:

I do think there is a difference between voting for Hillary because you align with the party vs voting for Trump for the same reason.

Hillary is a run of the mill awful politician in the same way most of them are.

Trump is a racist, sexist, bully who encourages violence, doesn't value diplomacy, and who is praised by Putin and Kim Jong Un.  Had any other nominee won, including Cruz, I would totally understanding voting with the party.

  SITB and just yesterday praised Saddam Hussein. 

HereForThePartyGK

kimmiinthemitten said:

I do think there is a difference between voting for Hillary because you align with the party vs voting for Trump for the same reason.

Hillary is a run of the mill awful politician in the same way most of them are.

Trump is a racist, sexist, bully who encourages violence, doesn't value diplomacy, and who is praised by Putin and Kim Jong Un.  Had any other nominee won, including Cruz, I would totally understanding voting with the party.

This right here is a perfect summary of the reason(s) why I'm currently scared shitless for this country.  

themosthappy91

-I think it's gross that I feel the need to qualify my support of Hillary with the statement "I'm not voting for her just because she's a woman." I can't believe we went from living in a world where "no one would vote for woman" straight into a world where people are accused of voting for someone solely because she's a woman. That's fucked up.

-I will be very excited to see a woman elected president and I don't think that makes me shallow, silly or someone who is "voting with their vagina." I would have been excited on some level if that woman was Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin or Jill Stein- descriptive representation is important. 

-I don't agree with some pretty major things Hillary has done/policies she supports but I will still happily vote for her because I think she is 1) an intelligent and qualified person who aligns more with my beliefs than not and 2) better than the alternative. I can extend that same reasoning in theory to Republicans who will hold their nose and vote for Trump... but honestly it's hard for me to comprehend seeing the person who openly wants to deport Muslims, silence journalists and demean women as the lesser of two evils.

banana468

That Hillary isn't having charges brought against her is a serious problem with the justice system.   She should no longer have a government clearance and she sure as shit shouldn't be the next President.    But alas here we are.   She pays lip service to those less fortunate than she and she uses her power for pure evil.    

That said,  I'm not voting for Trump either.   I'm in a blue state and it's actually a great place to vote for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson.     So that's what I'm doing in November assuming that there are no major changes in candidates.    

HereForThePartyGK

themosthappy91 said:

-I think it's gross that I feel the need to qualify my support of Hillary with the statement "I'm not voting for her just because she's a woman." I can't believe we went from living in a world where "no one would vote for woman" straight into a world where people are accused of voting for someone solely because she's a woman. That's fucked up.

-I will be very excited to see a woman elected president and I don't think that makes me shallow, silly or someone who is "voting with their vagina." I would have been excited on some level if that woman was Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin or Jill Stein- descriptive representation is important. 

-I don't agree with some pretty major things Hillary has done/policies she supports but I will still happily vote for her because I think she is 1) an intelligent and qualified person who aligns more with my beliefs than not and 2) better than the alternative. I can extend that same reasoning in theory to Republicans who will hold their nose and vote for Trump... but honestly it's hard for me to comprehend seeing the person who openly wants to deport Muslims, silence journalists and demean women as the lesser of two evils.

I 100% agree. It would be awesome to have a woman president one day, but that shouldn't be the reason they're elected.  I think the best fit for our country should win, plain and simple.  Unfortunately I don't think either Hilary or Trump are the best fit, but if someone thinks otherwise, they should vote on that reason....

I also think that when Obama first ran for POTUS, too much emphasis on "the first black president" played way too much of a factor in people's voting choices, everyone seems to forget that he is just as much white as he is black. 


Vote for people who's views and campaigns are most in line with yours, that's all that should matter.  

If only the presidential election could be more like "The Voice", it would be a better world  
(and if Blake Shelton were part of it I wouldn't complain either)

kimmiinthemitten

HereForThePartyGK said:

I 100% agree. It would be awesome to have a woman president one day, but that shouldn't be the reason they're elected.  I think the best fit for our country should win, plain and simple.  Unfortunately I don't think either Hilary or Trump are the best fit, but if someone thinks otherwise, they should vote on that reason....

I also think that when Obama first ran for POTUS, too much emphasis on "the first black president" played way too much of a factor in people's voting choices, everyone seems to forget that he is just as much white as he is black. 


Vote for people who's views and campaigns are most in line with yours, that's all that should matter.  

If only the presidential election could be more like "The Voice", it would be a better world  
(and if Blake Shelton were part of it I wouldn't complain either)

My brother is just as white as he is black, but when he was 6 and yelled at by an adult for crossing the street not at a corner, she didn't call him a white slur.

Let's not take away from Obama's accomplishment because he's not "black enough."