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More Trump misogyny and creepiness, regarding his pageants

I really hesitated posting this, I know it isn't a political board.  But I was just so incensed.

If you all haven't already seen the Washington Post article, Trump would "strategically" walk into the Miss USA dressing rooms when the young ladies were changing into their swimsuits.  He bragged about it to Howard Stern in 2005 and the WP recently verified it with one of the contestants.

He owned the pageant.  That sounds like sexual harassment to me.

Even worse, he reportedly did the same thing at the 1997 Miss Teen USA pageant, where some of the contestants were as young as 15.

Here's the link:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-beauty-queens-trump-strolled-into-pageant-dressing-rooms-160035885.html

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Heffalump
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Re: More Trump misogyny and creepiness, regarding his pageants

  • OliveOilsMomOliveOilsMom South Jersey member
    Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers

    Not surprised.  Die hard supports will still say that "this happened so long ago".  And it will not sway them.

    I was just reading on Yahoo news about a leaked transcript for a 2010 episode of Celebrity Apprentice where the groups were tasked with re-branding two country musicians.  The female musician was Emily West, in the leaked transcript he is commenting how her skin looks so terrible, etc.  Trump made comment of how much better the marketing material for Luke Bryan was.  He then asked Trace Adkins for his opinion on the marketing material.  Trace, who was a guest judge, stated he felt Emily's marketing material was much better and Trump responded with "I guess your not a skin guy."  But in reading the transcript, Trump even said out loud before his first skin comment was that it would never make the air so its ok to say. 

    short+sassycharlotte989875
  • MCmeow said:
    Not surprised at all. I'm glad some republicans are ending their support for him but where was the outrage when he said horrible things about Hispanics, Muslims, Black people? Now, republicans can relate because they have mothers, daughters, wives, and they're angry. Not saying they shouldn't be and I'm glad they are outraged, its about time, but empathy is a powerful thing, they can't relate to things unless it relates to them directly. 

    At the fast pace he is alienating people, I don't know how he is getting the support numbers he is.

    Back during his candidacy run, he also alienated some people of the Jewish faith/nationality with his attitude about relations with Israel and a comment that was something like, "You all should vote for me.  We all know how to make a deal.  AmIright?"  Being asked to be a keynote speaker for a major conference and then trotting out a tired, negative stereotype about your audience.  Stunning. 

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Not surprised.  Die hard supports will still say that "this happened so long ago".  And it will not sway them.


    Ugh, this is such a ridiculous argument because the same commentators then make the claim that President Bill Clinton was "just as bad or worse" and Hillary Clinton is wrong for "enabling him". 
    OliveOilsMomcowgirl8238vikinganna87
  • Another day, another round of accusations.  Sketchy things he has said about 10 year old girls (no physical contact, fortunately, just general leering and grossness), and a rundown of the list of alleged sexual assaults that have come to light thus far:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-unearthed-footage-trump-says-of-10-year-old-i-am-going-to-be-dating-her-in-10-years/

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/10/12/trump_sexual_assault_allegations_the_floodgates_are_open.html

    SMDH.  Not surprised, but genuinely saddened.  I'll bet Kelly Ayotte is kicking herself for ever saying he is a role model for children, even before she walked it back soon afterward.

    OliveOilsMomvikinganna87
  • I have a good friend of mine that is a veteran.  He still works actively with the military making purchase deals on a Global scale.  In a discussion last night, he mentioned how many, many countries are (and have been for the past 3-4 months) are refusing to make ANY deals (especially the larger cash values ones) with the US due to the upcoming election.

    I am not sure that either major party candidate is going to be great, but I absolutely cannot stand the thought of voting for someone with such a track record of abusing women.

  • Heffalump said:
    I just read a FB post by NBC News and should have avoided the comments but didn't. Almost every single one is accusing the women of lying, which just made me angry. It's not uncommon for women to not come forward when they're raped: let alone when it's groping.

    This whole situation has made Me come to terms with the times it has happened to me and the fact that I reported it only once. And I'm an outspoken, feminist, advocate for victims. Is it really all that shocking that a woman who was pushed against a wall and kissed against her will would choose to not say anything when there are bigger assaults out there and when no one believes you regardless of when it happened. Is it any surprise the passenger on a plane chose to stay silent when 30 years later a woman is on the news trying to disprove her based on her recall of the plane?


    You know, it especially pisses me off when people are awful to victims of sexual assault:  they call them liars, question their motives, root around in their past, etc.  And then in the same breath, they say "Why didn't they come forward sooner??"

    Gee.  I wonder why.

    Pretending I was this woman for a moment.  I wouldn't have done anything at the time.  Exactly!!!  If rape is often not taken seriously, an unwanted kiss from a powerful, wealthy man would really go nowhere.  I'd just be accused of trying to set him up for a civil suit, trying to get my 15 minutes of fame.  For what was a creepy, unpleasant experience.  But probably not traumatizing.  Pfft on all that.

    However, I'd probably tell that story over the years any time his name came up.  "You watched the Apprentice last night?  I actually met Trump once.  You won't believe what a creepers he is!!!  Let me tell you..."  Then one day, a reporter contacts me and asks about the incident or asks about my meeting Trump, so I tell them.

    I don't know who contacted who in that scenario, perhaps she contacted a reporter, but it's pretty shocking at how reporters can find/hear about a piece of even an everyday Jane/John's personal life if they are looking for something. 


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    kimmiinthemitten
  • The piece written by the People Magazine reporter is interesting too, and she explain clearly why she didn't come forward publicly (but did tell people in her office) before now. She questioned whether she did something that led him on (she didn't) and rationalized that it wasn't that bad ("well he didn't rape me..."), and was intimidated by the fact that he could ruin her career. And yet we wonder why women don't report. 
    HeffalumpMCmeowkimmiinthemittenSP29
  • Don't forget he also wants to bang his daughter.
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    MyNameIsNotspockforprezSherbie25
  • So this whole subject mashes two separate sets of buttons for me.

    Obviously the fact that Trump clearly feels a creepy, misogynistic entitlement to women's bodies regardless of their consent is the biggie.  And as someone who has experienced "low-grade" sexual assault like this and not reported it anywhere other than to friends, I totally get where these women are coming from.  It's creepy and wrong and off-putting and yet another reminder that our bodies are subject to violation at the will of men, but it doesn't feel consequential enough to believe the police would be interested in hearing about it.

    But then a lot of the commentary swirling around is in the vein of "what a man whore!"  And that's neither productive nor the goddamn point.  I am all about sex positivity.  I am down with non-monogamy for those who practice it ethically.  The conversation should not be "gadzooks, he was married and still finding other women attractive?!?" Power to you if that's your thing.  The point here is that his actions were non-consensual.  I wish the narrative could focus on that without generalized sex-shame-y bullshit.
    kimmiinthemittenOliveOilsMomSP29scrunchythief
  • kylexokylexo Finger Lakes, NY member
    500 Love Its Third Anniversary 100 Comments Name Dropper
    I just read a FB post by NBC News and should have avoided the comments but didn't. Almost every single one is accusing the women of lying, which just made me angry. It's not uncommon for women to not come forward when they're raped: let alone when it's groping.

    This whole situation has made Me come to terms with the times it has happened to me and the fact that I reported it only once. And I'm an outspoken, feminist, advocate for victims. Is it really all that shocking that a woman who was pushed against a wall and kissed against her will would choose to not say anything when there are bigger assaults out there and when no one believes you regardless of when it happened. Is it any surprise the passenger on a plane chose to stay silent when 30 years later a woman is on the news trying to disprove her based on her recall of the plane?
    I'm in this boat too. i've been following some of the tweets women have been posting about their own experiences being groped or assaulted. I've never considered myself a victim and always thought i'd be outspoken about something happening to me, but lots of shitty bullshit has happened to me in the past by disgusting men and explained away as boys just being boys.

    when i was a tween and i'd walk to my best friends house old guys in trucks would honk and yell lewd things out the window at me. 

    when i was 13 at a school dance and dancing with a boy for the first time ever he had his hands on my waist and moved them up so they were basically in my armpits with his thumbs on my boobs. i didn't know what to do and kinda froze about it but i knew i didn't like it and i didn't give him consent to do that.

    later that year a boy told the whole school i'd gone down on him because he was mad that i didn't. i had to see a counselor over it. my parents believed it. it made the whole year hell for me.

    i got really drunk at a party when i was 16 and passed out in a bedroom. i woke up to the guy whose house it was on top of me. he was pissed when i shoved him off and called a cab to get home and didn't understand why i wasn't interested in whatever he was trying to do.

    in college i got roofied once. some guy took me to his apartment and then kicked me out afterwards.

    those are just some of the worst examples.

    I've never reported any of these things to authorities. i feel guilt about these people and how they may have abused others after me, but i also felt i had nothing to gain and a lot to lose by reporting something. women are treated so poorly. i will never doubt a woman who comes forward with a story about abuse. it's pervasive.
  • Heffalump said:
    I just read a FB post by NBC News and should have avoided the comments but didn't. Almost every single one is accusing the women of lying, which just made me angry. It's not uncommon for women to not come forward when they're raped: let alone when it's groping.

    This whole situation has made Me come to terms with the times it has happened to me and the fact that I reported it only once. And I'm an outspoken, feminist, advocate for victims. Is it really all that shocking that a woman who was pushed against a wall and kissed against her will would choose to not say anything when there are bigger assaults out there and when no one believes you regardless of when it happened. Is it any surprise the passenger on a plane chose to stay silent when 30 years later a woman is on the news trying to disprove her based on her recall of the plane?


    You know, it especially pisses me off when people are awful to victims of sexual assault:  they call them liars, question their motives, root around in their past, etc.  And then in the same breath, they say "Why didn't they come forward sooner??"

    Gee.  I wonder why.

    Vox recently posted a really nice write up on this issue, too:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/13/13272904/trump-women-accuse-response

    charlotte989875SP29
  • Diane Rehm had a whole show dedicated today to sexual harassment, assault and abuse.  It was fantastic.
    I love her. I'm going to miss her and I definitely understand why she's retiring, but she's great. And her backstory is incredible. 
    kimmiinthemittenvikinganna87
  • So this whole subject mashes two separate sets of buttons for me.

    Obviously the fact that Trump clearly feels a creepy, misogynistic entitlement to women's bodies regardless of their consent is the biggie.  And as someone who has experienced "low-grade" sexual assault like this and not reported it anywhere other than to friends, I totally get where these women are coming from.  It's creepy and wrong and off-putting and yet another reminder that our bodies are subject to violation at the will of men, but it doesn't feel consequential enough to believe the police would be interested in hearing about it.

    But then a lot of the commentary swirling around is in the vein of "what a man whore!"  And that's neither productive nor the goddamn point.  I am all about sex positivity.  I am down with non-monogamy for those who practice it ethically.  The conversation should not be "gadzooks, he was married and still finding other women attractive?!?" Power to you if that's your thing.  The point here is that his actions were non-consensual.  I wish the narrative could focus on that without generalized sex-shame-y bullshit.
    That's so interesting. I have seen absolutely none of the second type of commentary!
    SP29crowsgirl15
  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten Detroit, MI member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    *sigh* Someone just shared a blog post on Facebook called "Why I'm voting for Trump."  I refuse to link and add to her traffic.

    CN:  She's a survivor of sexual assault and thinks Clinton has done more to promote rape culture than Trump has.  She also lists 4 super conservative reasons to vote for him including Supreme Court and Abortion.

    First of all, a spouse, relative or friend of an abuser will NEVER do more to perpetuate rape culture than the actual abusers themselves.

    Second of all, does anyone else think it's Stockholm-esque the way some women defend rape culture?  It's like they're so used to it, they've given up the fight and as such have decided it's not that bad.
    image
    charlotte989875SP29crowsgirl15vikinganna87
  • *sigh* Someone just shared a blog post on Facebook called "Why I'm voting for Trump."  I refuse to link and add to her traffic.

    CN:  She's a survivor of sexual assault and thinks Clinton has done more to promote rape culture than Trump has.  She also lists 4 super conservative reasons to vote for him including Supreme Court and Abortion.

    First of all, a spouse, relative or friend of an abuser will NEVER do more to perpetuate rape culture than the actual abusers themselves.

    Second of all, does anyone else think it's Stockholm-esque the way some women defend rape culture?  It's like they're so used to it, they've given up the fight and as such have decided it's not that bad.
    I've thought a lot about this and I don't understand it; but I'm wondering if it has to do with the idea that, if we acknowledge there is a rape culture, then I as a woman have to confront the idea that I may have been a victim, or that this has shaped or affected my life in someway. It's like "if we don't see it, or name it, or acknowledge it, then we can pretend that it doesn't exist and I haven't been harmed by it". I don't know if that's right, but I have to wonder why some women have been such ardent supporters of maintaining the status quo. 
    short+sassy
  • For a more lighthearted take on this whole mess, this made me giggle:

    http://www.funnyordie.com/articles/0c1140eacc/danny-elfman-composed-an-original-horror-movie-score-for-trump-stalking-hillary-at-the-debate?_cc=__d___&_ccid=0ea03308-b2ef-47da-9291-e543fa402d0f

    From Funny or Die:

    Remember the creepy, menacing way Trump loomed over Hillary during the second presidential debate? Well, believe it or not – and this is 100% real – Danny Elfman, the guy who did the creepy, menacing music for Beetlejuice, The Nightmare Before Christmas, Tales From The Crypt, Dark Shadows, Hitchcock, the Psycho remake, Goosebumps, Frankenweenie, The Wolfman, Hellboy 2, Corpse Bride, Sleepy Hollow and tons more (the scene where the clowns destroy Pee-Wee’s bike in Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure, anyone?) has taken the footage of Trump stalking Hillary at the debate and composed for it a custom horror movie musical score.

    charlotte989875monkeysipSP29
  • Loved this quote from Rush Limbaugh today:

    “You know what the magic word, the only thing that matters in American sexual mores today is? One thing. You can do anything, the left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent. If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it’s perfectly fine. Whatever it is. But if the left ever senses and smells that there’s no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police. But consent is the magic key to the left."

    Wow, you really nailed us, Rush! Uh yeah that's kind of the whole point...

    SP29short+sassy
  • Loved this quote from Rush Limbaugh today:

    “You know what the magic word, the only thing that matters in American sexual mores today is? One thing. You can do anything, the left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent. If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it’s perfectly fine. Whatever it is. But if the left ever senses and smells that there’s no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police. But consent is the magic key to the left."

    Wow, you really nailed us, Rush! Uh yeah that's kind of the whole point...

    I know, right?!?  I mean, on the one hand he appears to grasp the concept of consent and its centrality to the issue of acceptable sexual expression.  But then somehow it's all sarcasm and he couldn't be further from getting it?  

    Also, as a friend who posted this on facebook pointed out, the "rape police" are just...you know...actual police.  Because rape/non-consensual sex is a crime.  
    SP29cowgirl8238short+sassy
  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten Detroit, MI member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    Loved this quote from Rush Limbaugh today:

    “You know what the magic word, the only thing that matters in American sexual mores today is? One thing. You can do anything, the left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent. If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it’s perfectly fine. Whatever it is. But if the left ever senses and smells that there’s no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police. But consent is the magic key to the left."

    Wow, you really nailed us, Rush! Uh yeah that's kind of the whole point...

    Ironic thing is, change the tone and I 100% agree.  You're right Rush, it doesn't matter how many, what color, what gender, what hole sex you're into as long as all parties are consenting adults.

    And yup, if the condition of consent wasn't met, damn straight I call that rape, or assault, or whatever legal term your state calls it.

    He goes on to talk about how no used to mean yes, and now we have to reprogram our boys.

    Guess what, I agree with that too.  We absolutely need to change the way we discuss sex and consent with boys.
    image
    charlotte989875SP29cowgirl8238
  • Loved this quote from Rush Limbaugh today:

    “You know what the magic word, the only thing that matters in American sexual mores today is? One thing. You can do anything, the left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent. If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it’s perfectly fine. Whatever it is. But if the left ever senses and smells that there’s no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police. But consent is the magic key to the left."

    Wow, you really nailed us, Rush! Uh yeah that's kind of the whole point...

    When he explains that stuff to the right, how in the hell does his audience not think consent was a good thing? I don't get how they spin it as negative. Do they want to be forced into doing stuff? I just really don't understand how their brains work.
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    SaintPaulGal
  • Ugh.... an article showed up in my FB feed, where a Trump supporter said, "Listen, no man attacks a woman unless she's looking like she's asking for it". And this was said by a woman -_-.

    That made me angry. Unless a woman literally says, "Hey you over there, come f*** me senseless"- no, she was not asking for it.

    Also sad to me that women are OK with putting down other women. Why? I don't know, but it's sad.
  • This has been such an incredibly depressing week.  I wasn't surprised about Trump's character, since I'd heard about the alleged raping of a 13 year old.  I think (I hope) that what set this comment apart from all of the other horrible stuff for some people was that these comments weren't just offensive; they were admitting to doing something illegal and grossly immoral. `

    But, the worst part for me was how some friends leaped to defend him.  Comparing it to 50 shades of grey and rap music and of course deflecting to Bill Clinton.  Saying it's all just politically motivated.  I expected Trump to be a scumbag, but  I had assumed most of his supporters just cared more about their perception of his support for their issues and just ignored his awfulness.  If they had just said this is absolutely terrible, but I still feel like he's the better choice because of X, Y and Z (none of those having to do with President Clinton), I'd honestly feel a lot more hopeful about the world.  They could at least just acknowledge, without excuses, that this is unacceptable.

    And with the timing, I've been thinking about my own experiences.  I was raped twice during psychotic episodes.  I didn't report either one because I knew there'd be no chance of a conviction and I was barely hanging on as it was.  But if I ever found out one of those a-holes were running for president, I'd tell everyone and take it to the press.  At that point speaking up has a chance of doing something.  Especially if there's a tape saying they did similar things.

    And re Rush Limbaugh-I listened to some of it, and it's so much creepier sounding that just reading the words.  
    charlotte989875SP29cowgirl8238
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