Need to vent!

OurWildKingdom

A big white wedding is NOT a fundamental human right, people!

I have a big family, and my FW and I share a lot of friends. I wanted a big wedding, not fancy, but something with all the people we love there.

But. My FI has social anxiety and gets overwhelmed in crowds. Also, the big wedding just wasn't in our budget. My parents generously offered to pay for the wedding reception, but that shouldn't be a concern for them. 

We scaled back our plans and are now having a simple wedding for 20 people in our house, then going to a restaurant after. I'm looking forward to it, because at the end of the day, I'll be married to the woman I love. 

Sure, I'd love to have 180 people dancing it out and enjoying a big spread of food. But I'm an adult who respects my loved ones, not a selfish monster who insists on my way all the time. (ETA: Well, I try to be an adult, anyway.)

If you're looking for someone to co-sign your plans for a PPD or anything equally rude, you most likely won't find it here. If you want genuine etiquette advice, stay here and keep an open mind.

P.S. Before you call anyone rude, take a good hard look in the mirror.

Ro041

short+sassy

It DOES seem like there has been a PPD Parade lately in Etiquette!

I'm growing weary of explaining that the word "wedding" has a black/white definition that does not morph based on a person's view and special circumstances.

I never realized how evil and pervasive the wedding industry is until I started planning my own.  I chose to have a small wedding also and fretted, fretted, fretted that I was going to feel like I was "missing out" because I was leaving out a lot of traditions that weddings are "supposed to have".  Discovering the TK website really helped me realize that the "vision" I had in my head of what a wedding is supposed to be is just years and years of the constant wedding industry indoctrination through print ads, movies, and tv.  It wasn't real.

Not that I was able to get rid of all the brainwashing, lol.  I don't like wearing white.  It's a terrible color on me.  I was determined to choose a beautiful ball gown in whatever color I wanted.  Except I couldn't do it.  I just couldn't.  I didn't feel "bridal", if I wasn't in white.  I knew it was stupid and illogical, but I just couldn't change my feelings.  Though I did chose a gown with red embroidery and details.  That nicely "broke up" some of that stark white on me.

And after the ceremony, it was even more clear.  Sure, it was fun to wear my pretty white poufy dress.  I definitely loved seeing and hanging out with friends and family that I don't get to see very often.  But nothing compared to the sheer joy and happiness of marrying my H.

Although I don't regret the wedding I chose.  I realized afterwards, not only did I not care about the unnecessary traditions I skipped, but I could have brought things down many more notches and still been just as happy.

Summarized:  That's my long way of saying, the important part is the marriage.  Not the wedding day.  And I don't understand what some people don't "GET" about that.

@OurWildKingdom, I know you and your FI have had some rough times over the last year and I've been glad to see you all overcome that.  You compromised on your wedding "vision" to make sure your FI has an amazing day she is comfortable in.  That's the kind of love and support that strong marriages are based on.

levioosa

Whaaaaatttt?????? You're acting like an adult!? Egads! 

OurWildKingdom

levioosa said:

Whaaaaatttt?????? You're acting like an adult!? Egads! 

I try. I don't always succeed. 

ahoywedding

Props to you for doing what is best for your FW and taking her feelings into consideration! The fun part about a smaller wedding is that now you have an excuse for dinner or brunch dates with your other friends & family
(When is your wedding, PS? I feel like you've been planning forever!)

My sister's FW has been dealing with some pretty serious health stuff that, if she has an exacerbation, could make flying difficult or impossible and they're still having a DW. *sigh*

charlotte989875

OurWildKingdom

@ahoywedding, we're getting married on November 25. Our original date was October 15, 2016, but we weren't prepared or mentally healthy enough. I'm so glad we're waiting.

InLoveInQueens

It's so disappointing just how terribly these people treat their nearest and dearest just because they think they deserve a freaking party.

This also hits close to home because I'm like your FI, I was freaking out about the whole center of attention white wedding thing, until my husband assured me he cared about my feelings more than a big wedding, which was really big of him and I appreciate it still. We did a city hall ceremony with lunch afterwards with immediate family and whenever these people talk about how they "just" has a courthouse wedding and it wasn't "real" it is upsetting. Apparently I'm not really married because I ~only~ did exactly what I wanted for my wedding and now what others think I should have done.

cowgirl8238

I'm in the same boat as @short+Sassy in that I don't regret the wedding that we had, but it ended up with more of the "traditions and trappings" then we really needed.  So while I thoroughly enjoyed that special day, I have come to learn that even though the food (and OMG the cake!) was delicious the music was thumping I would have been just as happy on the courthouse steps or with a  private ceremony of moms/dads/sibs and grandma.  At the end of the day standing across from the person I loved and being able to call him my spouse is what made it special and that is all that matters.

...and cake!!! I got to have my cake!

[Deleted User]

InLoveInQueens said:

It's so disappointing just how terribly these people treat their nearest and dearest just because they think they deserve a freaking party.

This also hits close to home because I'm like your FI, I was freaking out about the whole center of attention white wedding thing, until my husband assured me he cared about my feelings more than a big wedding, which was really big of him and I appreciate it still. We did a city hall ceremony with lunch afterwards with immediate family and whenever these people talk about how they "just" has a courthouse wedding and it wasn't "real" it is upsetting. Apparently I'm not really married because I ~only~ did exactly what I wanted for my wedding and now what others think I should have done.

I don't really understand why people find it upsetting when others say courthouse weddings aren't real. Not everyone in the world is going to co-sign everything you do and that applies to all aspects of life. I'm in an interracial relationships and some people don't approve, same goes for gay relationships, marrying outside your social class......

If you wait for everyone to be agree with all your life decisions then you will never be happy. I don't know why it matters what other people think of your wedding. At the end of the day you married who you love. Even if you had a more traditional wedding, some people may not have liked that either. Can't please everyone.......

OurWildKingdom

scribe95 said:

It's upsetting because by saying courthouse weddings aren't real it is essentially invalidating your marriage. I totally get that. 

This, 100%.

It's like I said in another thread, a real wedding is when two (or more, if that's legal and your thing) people get married. It has nothing to do with what people are wearing, how many guests there are, who performs the ceremony, et cetera, et cetera.

Think about it, @Kimora_Blax. What if someone told you that your marriage is going to be invalid because you and your FI are different ethnicities? I know members of this forum who don't want children and were asked what the point of getting married was if they weren't going to have children. Just two years ago, my FI and I would have had to go to another state to get married, because the one we live in didn't recognize same-sex marriage.

Maybe you can't please everyone, but you should try not to hurt anyone.

[Deleted User]

OurWildKingdom said:

scribe95 said:

It's upsetting because by saying courthouse weddings aren't real it is essentially invalidating your marriage. I totally get that. 

This, 100%.

It's like I said in another thread, a real wedding is when two (or more, if that's legal and your thing) people get married. It has nothing to do with what people are wearing, how many guests there are, who performs the ceremony, et cetera, et cetera.

Think about it, @Kimora_Blax. What if someone told you that your marriage is going to be invalid because you and your FI are different ethnicities? I know members of this forum who don't want children and were asked what the point of getting married was if they weren't going to have children. Just two years ago, my FI and I would have had to go to another state to get married, because the one we live in didn't recognize same-sex marriage.

Maybe you can't please everyone, but you should try not to hurt anyone.

In the example given by InLoveInQueens,  she described how people who had courthouse weddings felt like it wasn't real for them. They are describing their own feelings towards their own weddings. It's like my FI saying our wedding wouldn't feel real unless it was in a church. That doesn't mean all non-church weddings are crap and awful. It is about his personal feelings towards a wedding. 

  I honestly wouldn't care if people said interracial relationships didn't feel real because that is their problem. I'm not trying to be mean, just saying that it's difficult to be happy if we look to others to agree with the decisions we make. 

Also I don't understand comparing gay marriage being illegal with courthouse weddings.

OurWildKingdom

You completely missed my point, @Kimora_Blax. Not only that, you're telling @InLoveInQueens that her feelings are invalid. Not cool.

I'm not saying that it's inherently bad to have 345 guests in a fancy hotel ballroom, or to have a church ceremony, or to buy lots of favors and frills. As long as you're hosting your guests properly and can afford it, have at it and have fun. But it's not OK to tell someone their wedding wasn't real because they couldn't afford to or chose not to have those things.

Within the bounds of etiquette, you can define what's real for you without insulting other people's choices.

The marriage equality reference was because for many of us (in the U.S., anyway) city hall and justice of the peace weddings were the only option we had for years. Ditto for interracial and interfaith couples. Also, people choose courthouse weddings for a lot of other reasons, such as because one or both partners are in the military.

[Deleted User]

OurWildKingdom said: 

You completely missed my point, @Kimora_Blax. Not only that, you're telling @InLoveInQueens that her feelings are invalid. Not cool.

Not saying her feelings are invalid. When did I say that! She is entitled to feel any emotion she wants. Disagreeing with someone's response is not the same thing as calling them invalid at all! Just saying maybe not to react so strongly.

There is a tendency now to act as if disagreeing with people is almost an oppressive act. It isn't. 

People disagree with brides responses all the time on this site. Since when does that equate with calling someone invalid? That is a very strong accusation to make. I react disproportionately sometimes. Not everything I feel is a rational and proportionate response to the situation and it's ok to point that out. Doesn't make my feelings invalid. My whole point which you don't seem to get is, try not to get wrapped up in how other people may view you. Hardly controversial.

OurWildKingdom

Call me old-fashioned and silly, but I think that it's important to be tactful and kind when you disagree with people and not imply that you're more evolved than they are because you don't care what others think of you.

[Deleted User]

OurWildKingdom said:

Call me old-fashioned and silly, but I think that it's important to be tactful and kind when you disagree with people and not imply that you're more evolved than they are because you don't care what others think of you.

You're old fashioned and silly. Especially for TK! I've seen people on this site go completely mental and say things i would hardly describe as tactful and nice over PPDs and cash bars and other etiquette faux-pas. I wasn't being nasty, just being blunt. Isn't that TK is known for?  

OurWildKingdom

Maybe we do get carried away at times, but at least we don't apply a different set of standards to ourselves than we do to other people.

[Deleted User]

OurWildKingdom said:

Maybe we do get carried away at times, but at least we don't apply a different set of standards to ourselves than we do to other people.

I agree that a discussion across two posts is silly. Love how you seem to apply different standards for me and the rest of TK. So TK can be blunt, but I can't? Makes sense for you to walk away......

xx

redoryx

Kimora_Blax said:

OurWildKingdom said:

Maybe we do get carried away at times, but at least we don't apply a different set of standards to ourselves than we do to other people.

I agree that a discussion across two posts is silly. Love how you seem to apply different standards for me and the rest of TK. So TK can be blunt, but I can't? Makes sense for you to walk away......

xx

TK is blunt but we also come from a point of correct etiquette. 

Here's my thing regarding legal marriage: let's say you and your FI go to the courthouse and just get that silly paperwork out of the way.

Then, before your fancy "wedding," something happens and you break up. Only you can't just break up, you have to get divorced. Because you are married. How can a couple that has to LEGALLY GET DIVORCED IN ORDER TO BREAK UP call their courthouse ceremony not real? 

[Deleted User]

redoryx said:

Kimora_Blax said:

OurWildKingdom said:

Maybe we do get carried away at times, but at least we don't apply a different set of standards to ourselves than we do to other people.

I agree that a discussion across two posts is silly. Love how you seem to apply different standards for me and the rest of TK. So TK can be blunt, but I can't? Makes sense for you to walk away......

xx

TK is blunt but we also come from a point of correct etiquette. 

Here's my thing regarding legal marriage: let's say you and your FI go to the courthouse and just get that silly paperwork out of the way.

Then, before your fancy "wedding," something happens and you break up. Only you can't just break up, you have to get divorced. Because you are married. How can a couple that has to LEGALLY GET DIVORCED IN ORDER TO BREAK UP call their courthouse ceremony not real? 

I never said a courthouse wedding isn't real. I think it is. Another poster said she gets upset when people say her courthouse wedding isn't real and my point was we shouldn't base our feelings on what other people think because we can't expect other people to agree with all our decisions. I also said that in the end you married the person you love and that's what matters, not what some other person feels about courthouse weddings.

I was then criticised by ourwildkingdom for invalidating the poster's feelings and then the debate started.....

[Deleted User]

scribe95 said:no

You discounted the other poster who said she gets upset when people say her courthouse wedding isn't real. Reading in between the lines your post was that it was dumb to be upset.

Not the same thing as saying they are invalid. I gave the reasons for my thought process and yeah it is a little silly to get too caught up in what others say, especially when they are talking about their own feelings about their wedding. Its like me getting upset if a jewish person said weddings aren't real unless done in a temple. I'm not going to rehash my views on this. Not saying I'm perfect. I get overly emotional sometimes.

charlotte989875

So you're saying people shouldn't be upset when others insult their choice of wedding venue @Kimora_Blax?

What about when people use those thoughts//feelings/opinions to bar people from accessing marriage because that's exactly what has happened. People don't feel interracial marriages are valise, well that was used to justify barring couples from actually marrying. The same thing with same-sex/gender marriages. These "differences in opinions" about marriages have led to millions of people being discriminated. So yah it's just good enough to just not be offended if someone doesn't like your wedding plans. 

[Deleted User]

charlotte989875 said:

So you're saying people shouldn't be upset when others insult their choice of wedding venue @Kimora_Blax?

What about when people use those thoughts//feelings/opinions to bar people from accessing marriage because that's exactly what has happened. People don't feel interracial marriages are valise, well that was used to justify barring couples from actually marrying. The same thing with same-sex/gender marriages. These "differences in opinions" about marriages have led to millions of people being discriminated. So yah it's just good enough to just not be offended if someone doesn't like your wedding plans. 

So you are comparing a person's individual dislike with their own courthouse weddings to a ban on interracial marriage and banning gay marriage .........umm.....ok. Seriously?  You think your response is a proportionate and rational response to me saying to a poster to try not to get upset if people diss your choices. Seriously?

There is so much wrong in what you just said. I don't even know where to begin. I'll just say freedom of thought is a thing and actions are feelings are different things. Not going to talk about this anymore.

charlotte989875

Kimora_Blax said:

charlotte989875 said:

So you're saying people shouldn't be upset when others insult their choice of wedding venue @Kimora_Blax?

What about when people use those thoughts//feelings/opinions to bar people from accessing marriage because that's exactly what has happened. People don't feel interracial marriages are valise, well that was used to justify barring couples from actually marrying. The same thing with same-sex/gender marriages. These "differences in opinions" about marriages have led to millions of people being discriminated. So yah it's just good enough to just not be offended if someone doesn't like your wedding plans. 

So you are comparing a person's individual dislike with their own courthouse weddings to a ban on interracial marriage and banning gay marriage .........umm.....ok. Seriously?  You think your response is a proportionate and rational response to me saying to a poster to try not to get upset if people diss your choices. Seriously?

There is so much wrong in what you just said. I don't even know where to begin. I'll just say freedom of thought is a thing and actions are feelings are different things. Not going to talk about this anymore.

I'm saying people's dislike with others weddings is used to justify discriminatory policies. So yes, I think it's fine to be upset if other people don't see your wedding as valid when that exact line of reasoning has been used to justify denying people access to marriage.

 Kimora_Blax said:

  I honestly wouldn't care if people said interracial relationships didn't feel real because that is their problem. I'm not trying to be mean, just saying that it's difficult to be happy if we look to others to agree with the decisions we make. 

Also I don't understand comparing gay marriage being illegal with courthouse weddings.

But it's not just the problem of people who say interracial marriages aren't real, because these people have tried to stop people from marrying. How do you not see this is a problem?!

CMGragain

Kimora_Blax said:

In the example given by InLoveInQueens,  she described how people who had courthouse weddings felt like it wasn't real for them. They are describing their own feelings towards their own weddings. It's like my FI saying our wedding wouldn't feel real unless it was in a church. That doesn't mean all non-church weddings are crap and awful. It is about his personal feelings towards a wedding. 

  I honestly wouldn't care if people said interracial relationships didn't feel real because that is their problem. I'm not trying to be mean, just saying that it's difficult to be happy if we look to others to agree with the decisions we make. 

Also I don't understand comparing gay marriage being illegal with courthouse weddings.

It isn't about what "feels real".  It is about what IS REAL!

SP29

The other issue here that we commonly see involves the choice of being married. It's not forced, or done to you.

It's totally cool if you value a large reception, guest list, religious ceremony, location or whatever. So if that is what you value in getting married, then plan your wedding that way! Which may mean waiting longer to save up money, or changing a few details to prioritize what is important.

But what we see on here is posters saying they *HAD* to get married at the courthouse for X,Y,Z reason and are now planning their real wedding. No, you're an adult. You made a choice- own it. You know exactly what you are doing and why. No one *has* to get married on a certain day/time/year.

My grandparents were poor when they got married- they made their choice to marry young and at the courthouse. Still married almost 60 years later. They've had 25 and 50 year vow renewals, but never did they have a wedding "do-over" because their wedding was not what they wanted. What they wanted was to get married.

Up until very recently in the U.S. many people weren't allowed to make the choice to get married. And then you have people making a courthouse seem like a flippant action.

And that is what is offensive to me- when people act like there was no other choice, like they were forced, to get married at the courthouse on X day.

[Deleted User]

SP29 said:

The other issue here that we commonly see involves the choice of being married. It's not forced, or done to you.

It's totally cool if you value a large reception, guest list, religious ceremony, location or whatever. So if that is what you value in getting married, then plan your wedding that way! Which may mean waiting longer to save up money, or changing a few details to prioritize what is important.

But what we see on here is posters saying they *HAD* to get married at the courthouse for X,Y,Z reason and are now planning their real wedding. No, you're an adult. You made a choice- own it. You know exactly what you are doing and why. No one *has* to get married on a certain day/time/year.

My grandparents were poor when they got married- they made their choice to marry young and at the courthouse. Still married almost 60 years later. They've had 25 and 50 year vow renewals, but never did they have a wedding "do-over" because their wedding was not what they wanted. What they wanted was to get married.

Up until very recently in the U.S. many people weren't allowed to make the choice to get married. And then you have people making a courthouse seem like a flippant action.

And that is what is offensive to me- when people act like there was no other choice, like they were forced, to get married at the courthouse on X day.

All valid points but is not really related to what I was talking about at all. The posts are becoming increasingly unrelated to what I was talking about. I've noticed this happens quite often on this forum. I'm not disagreeing with anything u said.

CMGragain

So, you are saying that other people can say hurtful things about your wedding and it shouldn't affect how you feel?  Then why have etiquette at all?

STARMOON44

CMGragain said:

So, you are saying that other people can say hurtful things about your wedding and it shouldn't affect how you feel?  Then why have etiquette at all?

Agreed I'm so confused by all of this. 

Is the point supposed to be "don't let the haters get you down! Your wedding was great who cares what they think!"? Because if so it's really not coming across in a way that makes any sense. 

ILoveBeachMusic

STARMOON44 said:

CMGragain said:

So, you are saying that other people can say hurtful things about your wedding and it shouldn't affect how you feel?  Then why have etiquette at all?

Agreed I'm so confused by all of this. 

Is the point supposed to be "don't let the haters get you down! Your wedding was great who cares what they think!"? Because if so it's really not coming across in a way that makes any sense. 

I think that is what she meant. Everything just became very convoluted.