Laser Hair Removal

southernbelle0915

Have y'all done this? If yes, did it work? Was yours painful? What areas did you get done? How many treatments did it take? How much did you pay? 

I got a few treatments about 7 or 8 years ago and it was SUPER painful and didn't really work long term. Objectively, it was cheaper than I would have expected and the office no longer exists, so super shady. My dermatologist's office does it and it's really reputable. They recommended waiting until I'm done having kids. Now I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it....

CharmedPam

yes, years ago too!  It wasn't too too bad, price wise.  I remember i made diddly squat then and still had money to get it done.
I got my chin/neck area done and then towards the end, tried the knuckles. 

No, it didn't work!

edit for words

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

CharmedPam

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

banana468

I have done it a few times with some success but I should do more.

1) I hear it's best if you have lighter skin and darker hair.   It's hard to accomplish on blondes. 

2) You need multiple treatments I think at least 4 weeks apart so they can catch the growth coming in.

I've had my lip and bikini area done.   In both cases, I still see visible hair but 
-On my lip, I find that it takes longer for the hair to come in and when it does it's less noticeable. 
-I used to get far more frequent in grown hairs in my bikini line and now hardly ever get them. 

I have heard it eventually will grow back and it's not permanent but those I know that continued with all treatments were thrilled.   

If you're someone who wants to rock body hair then go for it.   If I could continue with treatments I'd at least go for the two areas again.

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

missJeanLouise

I had 4 treatments 6-7 years ago on my bikini area. I heard it takes 8 to be really successful but I had a groupon for 4. I think it worked fairly well but wasn’t 100%. I didn’t think the pain was *that* bad, like a snapping rubber band. It hurt but I wasn’t concerned about passing out or anything. I really want to get my arm pits done.

missJeanLouise

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

just like I wouldn’t be able to say I like having a cat or eating an avocado if I had never tried it. Now that I have, I won’t be going back. Just because something started off one way in history doesn’t mean we can’t “reclaim it”or just use it because we prefer it that way. 
My best female friend doesn’t shave, her armpits or legs, and Yay! for her but I find it uncomfortable, itchy, and armpit hair smelly.

short+sassy

I've always wanted to do it for under my arms.  But it just never seemed worth the price for the, albeit, nice bit of convenience it would give me.  That is, if it worked.

I know it's super weird.  But the hair on my legs doesn't grow anymore.  It was always really light blonde and sparse to begin with, but then it just stopped altogether in my mid-20s.  I think it is a side effect of my eternally low thyroid, that I've never quite been able to get under full control. 

6fsn

I would love to have it on my chin.  I get those nasty little black buggers.  Once I feel it I obsess until I can get to a pair of tweezers.  I also have one random neck hair. I'll check everyday for weeks and nothing.  Then one day it's 3" long. 

kvruns

I had it on my underarms from a Groupon and I didn't think it was too painful. I think I received 6 treatments and they said I would need 2 more (total of 8) for it to get rid of it all the way. But the price of just those 2 extra sessions was probably what I paid for the first 6 so I declined. They also said that hormonal changes can cause it to change so even if it was all removed, having a baby or going through menopause could bring the growth back. 

A friend of mine did her legs and maybe other areas too and did the full required 8 treatments or whatever and has not experienced any regrowth. For her it was worth the price she said. 

CMGragain

The hairs on your chin are caused by hormones.  Your hormone levels change over your lifetime.
I had laser removal 8 years ago.  With all the hormone based chemo therapy I have been on, I should have saved my money.  Currently, I have no hair on my body - except for those chin hairs that grew back!

lovesclimbing

I never have. My SIL got it done on her face. She has high testosterone levels among other things (she has gone to doctors in the past about that. Idk what happened but nothing changed), and as a result, has a lot of fairly coarse hair on her face. I was honestly quite surprised she did it because she has fair skin and light/medium hair. And I even tried to say that politely before she started in case she didn't know, but supposedly the technology changed? Idk, but it didn't work. She did the recommended course, coming back several times so many weeks apart. All of it came back within a few weeks. She shaves now. 

I pluck my lip and eye brows. I shave my legs even though it's annoying. I wax myself the lower half of my face from about the middle of my cheek down. I get lots of soft fine hair on my lower face and under my chin. My makeup goes on much smoother without it. I also pluck the stray dark hairs that grow on my chin. I use the Sally beauty strips you can buy at any grocery store in the beauty aisle. I think they work pretty well. 

banana468

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

MissKittyDanger

If I were to get it done, it'd be my underarms and bikini area. Hair always seemed to grow faster there than anywhere else - plus it seems to be darker than legs.

Does pain level depend on area?

lovesclimbing

MissKittyDanger said:

If I were to get it done, it'd be my underarms and bikini area. Hair always seemed to grow faster there than anywhere else - plus it seems to be darker than legs.

Does pain level depend on area?

YES! Surprisingly, shins hurt way worse than bikini area. 

I forgot in the above post - I have had a bikini wax twice and my legs below the knee once. 

For bikini area, I get red bumps regardless of what I do to try to prevent. I've tried everything. So I actually like to pluck the edges. If I pluck a few hairs every day, it takes about a minute a day to keep up with it. That's how I do my brow and lip too. Pluck every day and it takes no time at all. 

CMGragain

Be careful what you wish for.  Dear God.  I want my hair back, please.  

MissKittyDanger

CMGragain said:

Be careful what you wish for.  Dear God.  I want my hair back, please.  

Do you wear a wig or skull cap? Regardless I feel like you rock it though!

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

CMGragain

MissKittyDanger said:

CMGragain said:

Be careful what you wish for.  Dear God.  I want my hair back, please.  

Do you wear a wig or skull cap? Regardless I feel like you rock it though!

I have wigs from 9 years ago in various colors.  They itch!

banana468

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

WinstonsGirl

I haven't, as I'm a red head and have pretty blonde body hair.  But I do get electrolysis on my pits.  I hate the feeling of armpit hair, so I went for it a while ago.  It takes a long time and hurts me like a mother, but topical lotion helps to freeze the area a little.  I've been going probably 2+ years now, but I'm down from 1.5 hours for both to 20 mins for both, and its mostly baby fine hair now, only a handful of coarse ones.  I can't see it unless I'm looking closely, so I assume no one else can.  And I feel so much cleaner now.  I've also had it done a the few random ones I get out of moles and such.  Most are completely gone now, though I did have 1 come back after close to 10 year off.  

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

We don't have a free choice though when one choice (not removing hair) is so intensely stigmatized and rendered culturally unacceptable. You do not ever see women in media with body hair. Even on post-apocalyptic shows like The Walking Dead where the men all have ratty beards, the women are still completely hairless. Razor commercials for women show a razor moving over an already bare leg - that's how unspeakable not removing your body hair is.
This is a cultural phenomenon that affects all women and how we make our choices, whether we like it or not.
When one choice involves harassment and abuse and the other is presented as the only acceptable way to exist, how can that be presented as a choice? When young women are just handed a razor when they hit puberty and expected to remove their body hair, almost before they have any?
Women are not shown any way to grow up with their bodies in their natural state, and this cultural phenomenon requires critical analysis beyond "but I like it!" Of course most women are convinced they like it. We have never been given a real choice.

babe1990

maybe it will work after doing it for a few times. Good luck.

missJeanLouise

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

We don't have a free choice though when one choice (not removing hair) is so intensely stigmatized and rendered culturally unacceptable. You do not ever see women in media with body hair. Even on post-apocalyptic shows like The Walking Dead where the men all have ratty beards, the women are still completely hairless. Razor commercials for women show a razor moving over an already bare leg - that's how unspeakable not removing your body hair is.
This is a cultural phenomenon that affects all women and how we make our choices, whether we like it or not.
When one choice involves harassment and abuse and the other is presented as the only acceptable way to exist, how can that be presented as a choice? When young women are just handed a razor when they hit puberty and expected to remove their body hair, almost before they have any?
Women are not shown any way to grow up with their bodies in their natural state, and this cultural phenomenon requires critical analysis beyond "but I like it!" Of course most women are convinced they like it. We have never been given a real choice.

I know my options, am perfectly capable of making my own decisions, didn’t shave for 3 months because I kept forgetting to buy razors when I went to the hypermarket (the little store I do most my shopping at doesn’t carry them), and guess what? Still prefer my silky, smooth skin because it feels good. I loooove dousing myself in coconut oil, throwing on my pajammies and rubbing my legs together because it feels good. They feel better in my clothes, in the sheets, in the air. A lot of my friends are hiker trash and hippies, some shave and some don’t (men and women), it is nbd. If anyone tried to give my girlfriends grief over their body hair a few of them would be keen to go stick it in their face, lol. If people are so engrossed in media that they can’t make the simplest of adult choices then the media is not their biggest problem. This is literally like saying, someone can’t stop dying their hair blonde because the media tells them that blondes have more fun. 

charlotte989875

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

We don't have a free choice though when one choice (not removing hair) is so intensely stigmatized and rendered culturally unacceptable. You do not ever see women in media with body hair. Even on post-apocalyptic shows like The Walking Dead where the men all have ratty beards, the women are still completely hairless. Razor commercials for women show a razor moving over an already bare leg - that's how unspeakable not removing your body hair is.
This is a cultural phenomenon that affects all women and how we make our choices, whether we like it or not.
When one choice involves harassment and abuse and the other is presented as the only acceptable way to exist, how can that be presented as a choice? When young women are just handed a razor when they hit puberty and expected to remove their body hair, almost before they have any?
Women are not shown any way to grow up with their bodies in their natural state, and this cultural phenomenon requires critical analysis beyond "but I like it!" Of course most women are convinced they like it. We have never been given a real choice.

I get what you’re saying, that we should investigate the historical context of these practices and understand that the expectation to be clean shaven is result of the patriarchy and male defined beauty. I’m with you. And you’re right that some women are subjected to harassment for not conforming to those standards. And yes women perpetuate these standards. 

But at the same time not all women who choose to remove hair, wear make, perform femininity as you put it are internalizing misogyny. I agree with your call to be more reflexive about these practices, but if we do that, and still choose some, or all of these practices doesn’t mean we understand their roots. And yes, I believe and would advocate for women who are harassed and bullied for not conforming to gender or beauty norms, but I don’t have to do it in a way that feels inaunthentic to me. 

southernbelle0915

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

This is where I fall in the nethers grooming department. In high school, all my friends were shaving everything. Even though I thought it was unnatural/weird to look like puberty only affected my upper half, I went full brazilian for years, to keep up with the Joneses. But the end result was like 4 days smooth, then ingrown hairs and spikey regrowth. Not exactly comfortable (or sexy). Now I bikini wax and trim. 

banana468

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

We don't have a free choice though when one choice (not removing hair) is so intensely stigmatized and rendered culturally unacceptable. You do not ever see women in media with body hair. Even on post-apocalyptic shows like The Walking Dead where the men all have ratty beards, the women are still completely hairless. Razor commercials for women show a razor moving over an already bare leg - that's how unspeakable not removing your body hair is.
This is a cultural phenomenon that affects all women and how we make our choices, whether we like it or not.
When one choice involves harassment and abuse and the other is presented as the only acceptable way to exist, how can that be presented as a choice? When young women are just handed a razor when they hit puberty and expected to remove their body hair, almost before they have any?
Women are not shown any way to grow up with their bodies in their natural state, and this cultural phenomenon requires critical analysis beyond "but I like it!" Of course most women are convinced they like it. We have never been given a real choice.

Look - I get it.   We're told to do things a certain way.

But FFS, there's a metric fuckton of pressure involved in raising a child.   I can tell you that if my own daughter wants to avoid shaving when the time comes that's her choice but I can't control what others do.   And while I'd love to yell and scream and police every child who rolls eyes in a middle school or high school setting the reality is that a lot of certain actions may also be advising you child to do something to protect them from the bullies.  

And at this point, you're posting in a group of grown women who are aware that no one needs to tell them how to pluck eyebrows or shave their pits. 

This is now needlessly criticizing those who opt to do something that may have roots in a male dominated choice but it's still something that I choose to do because *I* like it. 

Get off the soapbox.   If you don't want to remove pit hair, facial hair or any body hair I don't care.   Stop condescending to the rest of us who make the choice to do it. 

southernbelle0915

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

We don't have a free choice though when one choice (not removing hair) is so intensely stigmatized and rendered culturally unacceptable. You do not ever see women in media with body hair. Even on post-apocalyptic shows like The Walking Dead where the men all have ratty beards, the women are still completely hairless. Razor commercials for women show a razor moving over an already bare leg - that's how unspeakable not removing your body hair is.
This is a cultural phenomenon that affects all women and how we make our choices, whether we like it or not.
When one choice involves harassment and abuse and the other is presented as the only acceptable way to exist, how can that be presented as a choice? When young women are just handed a razor when they hit puberty and expected to remove their body hair, almost before they have any?
Women are not shown any way to grow up with their bodies in their natural state, and this cultural phenomenon requires critical analysis beyond "but I like it!" Of course most women are convinced they like it. We have never been given a real choice.

Look - I get it.   We're told to do things a certain way.

But FFS, there's a metric fuckton of pressure involved in raising a child.   I can tell you that if my own daughter wants to avoid shaving when the time comes that's her choice but I can't control what others do.   And while I'd love to yell and scream and police every child who rolls eyes in a middle school or high school setting the reality is that a lot of certain actions may also be advising you child to do something to protect them from the bullies.  

And at this point, you're posting in a group of grown women who are aware that no one needs to tell them how to pluck eyebrows or shave their pits. 

This is now needlessly criticizing those who opt to do something that may have roots in a male dominated choice but it's still something that I choose to do because *I* like it. 

Get off the soapbox.   If you don't want to remove pit hair, facial hair or any body hair I don't care.   Stop condescending to the rest of us who make the choice to do it. 

I didn't really see this as condescending at all. I read it more as an observation of society, double standards for men/women, cultural pressures on women, and women's response to it all. Nothing to take personally.

It's a really interesting anthropological discussion, IMHO - and your point about self-protection by conformation is also super interesting and valid.

NowIAmSyp

Seriously, what the heck.

I shave my legs, wax my bikini area, pluck my eyebrows- and not ONCE in my 38 years did I ever think I was "doing it for a man," or doing it because a once "male dominated society dictated I do it." 

Wut?

I do it because I don't like the feel of hair on my body, and I prefer to be smooth.  Me.  End of story.

banana468

southernbelle0915 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

banana468 said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

CharmedPam said:

knottie6fe2cc5434160aa2 said:

I got laser about 8 years ago and it worked for a few months and then all grew back.
I no longer bother removing my body hair. I have light skin and thick, dark hair that grows on my face, chest, and stomach, as well as on my legs. It is part of my body and I no longer worry about changing my body to conform to a male-defined expectation of female beauty.
I found it very interesting and infuriating to learn about the history of women's hair removal in North America. It was practically non-existent until shaving companies needed a new market during WW1.

I never once got mine done for a man or even thought I was doing it for that purpose.  I hated having chin hair.  Hated the feel.  The look.  Everything.  I doubt men even noticed. 

Not saying you got yours done "for a man". I'm saying that the idea that women should not have facial hair is ahistorical and male-defined.
It's like when women claim they're shaving their legs "because I like how smooth it feels!" but wouldn't even know what having smooth legs felt like if they hadn't removed it in the first place.

Most of us who remove certain hair remember being old enough to know what it was like to have it come in.  Maybe you always had hair in the places it grows now but I didn't. 

And I personally prefer to keep things trim in the same way that I see my hair stylist every 6 weeks.  No, I don't HAVE to cut my hair or style it but I prefer the way I look with styled hair, plucked eyebrows, no dark upper lip hair, shaved armpits and hair that doesn't peek out of my underwear.   I'll be honest that I shave my legs a heck of a lot less when it's colder but once it's warmer, I think they look and feel better when they're clean-shaven.   

If you don't want to do those things then that's great.   I'll admit that in general I'm someone who conforms to a lot of societal norms.    At this point, I don't think you can call it solely male-defined expectations.   They may be of male origination but I think there's plenty of female expectations to change.  

True, lots of women enforce male-created standards on other women as a way of maintaining their position in the status quo. You see that in a lot of the defensiveness - "I spend hours of time and lots of money doing painful things to modify my body because I like it!" in that. It's so strange. Women who are interested in performing femininity often get upset when anyone criticizes these traditions and their impact on women in even the mildest of terms. Funnily enough, it's only ever been men who have physically attacked me on the street for being an ugly, hairy, man-hating dyke.
Women just find more creative ways to subtly call me that, I guess.

I think you're onto something that SOME women can project a way of if you're not doing it their way you're wrong.   Hell even in some cultures where female circumcision is practiced, it's the elder women who pin down the younger one to suffer ritualistic pain.  

We are a culture where women can opt for a variety of hair, styles and clothing.   Some friends lasered themselves clean and I personally can't imagine looking like a small child however I don't want it sticking out of my underwear.  Others may opt for corsets, push up bras, thongs, or men's briefs.

It's about understanding IMO that as long as it's your choice and no one else's it doesn't matter.

We don't have a free choice though when one choice (not removing hair) is so intensely stigmatized and rendered culturally unacceptable. You do not ever see women in media with body hair. Even on post-apocalyptic shows like The Walking Dead where the men all have ratty beards, the women are still completely hairless. Razor commercials for women show a razor moving over an already bare leg - that's how unspeakable not removing your body hair is.
This is a cultural phenomenon that affects all women and how we make our choices, whether we like it or not.
When one choice involves harassment and abuse and the other is presented as the only acceptable way to exist, how can that be presented as a choice? When young women are just handed a razor when they hit puberty and expected to remove their body hair, almost before they have any?
Women are not shown any way to grow up with their bodies in their natural state, and this cultural phenomenon requires critical analysis beyond "but I like it!" Of course most women are convinced they like it. We have never been given a real choice.

Look - I get it.   We're told to do things a certain way.

But FFS, there's a metric fuckton of pressure involved in raising a child.   I can tell you that if my own daughter wants to avoid shaving when the time comes that's her choice but I can't control what others do.   And while I'd love to yell and scream and police every child who rolls eyes in a middle school or high school setting the reality is that a lot of certain actions may also be advising you child to do something to protect them from the bullies.  

And at this point, you're posting in a group of grown women who are aware that no one needs to tell them how to pluck eyebrows or shave their pits. 

This is now needlessly criticizing those who opt to do something that may have roots in a male dominated choice but it's still something that I choose to do because *I* like it. 

Get off the soapbox.   If you don't want to remove pit hair, facial hair or any body hair I don't care.   Stop condescending to the rest of us who make the choice to do it. 

I didn't really see this as condescending at all. I read it more as an observation of society, double standards for men/women, cultural pressures on women, and women's response to it all. Nothing to take personally.

It's a really interesting anthropological discussion, IMHO - and your point about self-protection by conformation is also super interesting and valid.

I'm glad you said that.   I have felt particularly defensive in the last day just due to pain in the ass work situations so this probably didn't help.

Navigating my own womanhood while raising a daughter is not easy.