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Re: Good morning!

  • mrsconn23 said:

    A group of people I've actually been pretty shocked haven't come up in headlines recently for sexual harassment are pro athletes.  Not casting any negativity specifically toward pro athletes.  Like any group, I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding citizens.  But, let's face it.  Most pro athletes are men.  With fame, money, and power.  So many of the ingredients we have been seeing in the other sexual harassment stories.

    But in the workplace they are actually low on the totem pole (I'm thinking of football, baseball, basketball stars...other sports are more singular).  Yes, they're the talent...but they're not making or breaking anyone's career, you know? They have to behave and perform or they get cut.  

    They don't have any power and that's the theme of all of these allegations.  Powerful men who could make or break someone's career or aspirations.

    Don't get me wrong, pro athletes have their own issues with how they treat women (and other people), but it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't happen at work for them.   
    I have to totally disagree with the bolded. Athletes get away with A LOT - even college athletes who make nothing and arguably have no power. Even athletes at D2 institutions who will never go pro get away with a lot. There's rape, and assault and harassment and murder and theft and DUIs and drugs...you name it, they're doing it and having agents/management/leadership cover it up because the athletes ARE in positions of power. They may not be highest on the totem pole, but they absolutely wield power. 
    I'm not saying they don't have any power in the world, but they are not in a position that Weinstein, Lauer, CK, etc are in with the fact that they wield power over someone's career in their organization and abuse that power through sexual harassment/assault.  They likely don't have much daily interaction with anyone but coaches and training staff. 

    Colleges are a different story.  Also in those organizations, women have the WHOLE system against them because no one wants the stain, so it's covered up top to bottom.  And it's not just the athletes, the shit is rampant in academia with TA's and professors.  Especially because of how tenure works. 

    In the 'real world' athletes behavior is certainly a problem due to the power and money they wield and how they use it to get what they want.  There are rape and abuse allegations all over the sports world. 
    southernbelle0915short+sassycharlotte989875
  • kvruns said:
    @kimmiinthemitten, your interview is so cool!  Also, a 20's theme hotel?  Sign me up! You have a freaking awesome job!
    @charlotte989875, awesome news about getting the house off your hands before year end.

    SSDD here too.  We have our holiday party on Friday, and a charity event tomorrow during the day. 

    Chicago has a ton of them!  A lot of the Kimpton properties are 20's inspired.  Hotel Allegro is gorgeous!  I could live in their lobby bathroom.
    I was just going to say Kimpton hotels and the Allegro. The Allegro was the hotel of choice for a former company of mine so whenever I was in town for work I stayed there. They had a nice complimentary wine tasting hour too

    Edit: it is in the theatre district so a nice location if you wanted to also see a show
    and seeing shows is kinda my thing.  I saw wicked twice already, but DH said he wanted to see it.  I don't know about seeing it a third time.  It wasn't THAT great. 
    We driving up next weekend to see Wicked. I've never seen so am super excited!
    short+sassy
  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited November 2017
    mrsconn23 said:

    A group of people I've actually been pretty shocked haven't come up in headlines recently for sexual harassment are pro athletes.  Not casting any negativity specifically toward pro athletes.  Like any group, I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding citizens.  But, let's face it.  Most pro athletes are men.  With fame, money, and power.  So many of the ingredients we have been seeing in the other sexual harassment stories.

    But in the workplace they are actually low on the totem pole (I'm thinking of football, baseball, basketball stars...other sports are more singular).  Yes, they're the talent...but they're not making or breaking anyone's career, you know?  They have to behave and perform or they get cut.  

    They don't have any power and that's the theme of all of these allegations.  Powerful men who could make or break someone's career or aspirations.

    Don't get me wrong, pro athletes have their own issues with how they treat women (and other people), but it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't happen at work for them.   


    But some of the news stories coming out aren't related to people who work for other people either.

    It's people talking about a random meeting with a celebrity, who said or did something inappropriate to them.  Especially if they were underage when it happened.

    In the work place, while they may not regularly interact with other employees of the team (though I'm not sure about that), they could definitely destroy someone's career.

    If I were an HR assistant for the Saints.  And Drew Brees* sexually harassed or even attacked me.  Do you think the Saints would give two s**ts about me?  They would not.  They would scramble like hell to shut me up and do whatever it took, to make sure that story didn't get out.  And, while I used an obvious star player, I don't think the result would be much different if it was a 2nd or 3rd stringer who was the perpetrator.  My "offered payout" would just be less, smh.

    *All the love for Drew Brees, who has never had a whiff of any such scandal.  Just using him as an example of a sports team's mentality.   

    Stories about athletes abusing women have been around for years. 

    The reason why I think it is different is that a) there's been rumors about people like Weinstein, CK, Lauer, Rose, even Spacey etc for *years* and the organizations who employed them did nothing about it  and/or actively tried to hide it and b) it's 'unexpected' because let's face it, these are 'serious' white men doing important and 'serious' things. 

    Athletes are expected to be demanding and live these lavish lifestyle where NO ONE says no to them.  So hearing an athlete sexually coerced, harassed, or assaulted someone doesn't quite produce the outrage because of perception (and y'know, good old fashioned racism if an allegation is against a black athlete).  

    ETA:  Misogyny and the patriarchal systems in place that have allowed people power and money to abuse and then silence people are to blame for ALL OF IT. 
    short+sassykimmiinthemitten
  • CharmedPamCharmedPam Chicagoburbs member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    We driving up next weekend to see Wicked. I've never seen so am super excited!
    It's really good! You're going to love it.  Act 1 is better than 2 IMO.  Report back!


    ILoveBeachMusic
  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    Being on the mountain time zone I'm late to the party. My DH actually woke me up to tell me. I was like "about time. I saw that coming".    Wasn't it an open secret he had a bunch of affairs and stuff?   It was only amount of time before it found it's way to his work place.

    I honestly think they wanted him out anyway.   Ratings, particularly his, have dropped.  Especially since the Ann Curry thing.    This is an "easy" out for them.

    I have to wonder if Al would be next?   The casting couch has been "accepted" for a long time.  I have to think there are a lot of male reporters who have been in the business for as long they have also have some inappropriate skeletons in their closest.     

    This is only the tip of the iceberg.










    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
    southernbelle0915mrsconn23charlotte989875OliveOilsMom
  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
    Seventh Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited November 2017

    A group of people I've actually been pretty shocked haven't come up in headlines recently for sexual harassment are pro athletes.  Not casting any negativity specifically toward pro athletes.  Like any group, I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding citizens.  But, let's face it.  Most pro athletes are men.  With fame, money, and power.  So many of the ingredients we have been seeing in the other sexual harassment stories.

    There seems to be more abuse cases in pro athletes. Ray Rice and Lebraun James come to mind.

    It's certainly true that when major criminal charges are levied against a pro athlete, it makes big news.

    But I was more referring to the glut of sexual harassment stories over the last couple months.  That have often been for offenses less egregious than rape.  Don't misunderstand, I'm certainly not saying being groped or strongly propositioned after saying no isn't an awful and very unsettling experience, but people generally don't press charges or call the police with those incidents.  So, until recently, it hasn't been news or publicized.  And celebrities...and regular people offenders...just continue on their merry way.  And continue to demean and sexually harass people.  Sometimes with just the general public.  Sometimes at their workplace.  Sometimes both.

    I'm sure pro athletes, percentage-wise, are just as likely to have those kinds of behaviors as some of the actors/directors/singers that we've seen making headlines.

    Edited because I read this after my post:

    mrsconn23 said:
    Stories about athletes abusing women have been around for years. 

    The reason why I think it is different is that a) there's been rumors about people like Weinstein, CK, Lauer, Rose, even Spacey etc for *years* and the organizations who employed them did nothing about it  and/or actively tried to hide it and b) it's 'unexpected' because let's face it, these are 'serious' white men doing important and 'serious' things. 

    Athletes are expected to be demanding and live these lavish lifestyle where NO ONE says no to them.  So hearing an athlete sexually coerced, harassed, or assaulted someone doesn't quite produce the outrage because of perception (and y'know, good old fashioned racism if an allegation is against a black athlete).  

    ETA:  Misogyny and the patriarchal systems in place that have allowed people power and money to abuse and then silence people are to blame for ALL OF IT. 

    Thanks, I can see where this could be a factor in my puzzlement as to why I'm not seeing the same type of stories for pro athletes.

    Just not as "sensational", sigh.  But no less deplorable.

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    mrsconn23
  • Also, I am SURE a factor in the 'outrage' is that there are people out there who think the sexual harassment died in the workplace in the 90's with Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas and Clinton/Lewinsky, and every company rushed to institute policies and training on sexual harassment.  

    You know, like how racism went away when Obama became president.  SMH 
    southernbelle0915short+sassyOliveOilsMom
  • @short+sassy  Really! I must look, who's been accused already? It probably hasn't been as big as Hollywood news but still dying to know. {Guy Fieri weirds me out ....}
    Also that makes me sad about Angela Landsbury :( Victim blaming never helps anyone. Dammit Mrs Potts, I had more faith in you! How would you feel if Chip was that guy *side eye*

    I remembered reading in a recent article about sexual harassment in restaurants, that celebrity chef Anne Burrell had been sued for that.  Apparently it was in 2009.  But, in my searching, I found this article about sexual harassment lawsuits against famous chefs.  Though the article is from 2012:

    http://blogs.findlaw.com/celebrity_justice/2012/06/celebrity-chefs-dealing-with-sexual-harassment-lawsuits.html 

    Of course, sexual harassment usually only makes news when it is related to someone famous.  I can't imagine how many thousands get reported to restaurant corporations and never make headlines.

    A group of people I've actually been pretty shocked haven't come up in headlines recently for sexual harassment are pro athletes.  Not casting any negativity specifically toward pro athletes.  Like any group, I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding citizens.  But, let's face it.  Most pro athletes are men.  With fame, money, and power.  So many of the ingredients we have been seeing in the other sexual harassment stories.

    Patrick Kane from the Chicago Blackhawks was accused of rape 3 years ago (I think?) The story had some CRAZY twists and turns (like the mother of the accuser was involved somehow and the outfit she wore on the night had been tampered with and left at her front door (like serious "made for TV" movie shit) and then boom. The case was dismissed and nothing came out of it.

    I always wondered if the "evidence" showed up in the media to make it look sketchy and him the "good" guy (also no evidence of his dna on her anywhere was reported) and he just paid her off to be quiet?   OR she really was the sketchy one (and her mother!) and tried to blame a high profiled athlete and it didn't work..... No one knows.
    Since it all happened in Buffalo this was covered EXTENSIVELY in the Buffalo News. He has been notorious for getting into "scuffles" out here in bars (and taxis) and this whole thing was just crazy. My completely outside opinion is that something happened and he paid her off, but I don't know that for sure. 
  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado mod
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    I use to live in the town the Philadelphia Eagles use to having training camp.  Across the street from their dorms was a bar they went to frequently.     That bar sponsored my ex-BF's baseball team.  Playoffs were around the same time the Eagles were there so we would be in the bar a lot during that time. 


    OMG, the crazy women came out during that time.  Seriously.   The bathroom talk would make locker room talk look like preschool.

    There would be lines of women waiting to give a BJ to a player.  There would be cat flights on who gets whomever.   You would see players leave the bar with one girl, come back and leave with another.  I witnessed women fighting each other because one of them went home with so-n-so the night before and it was "her turn".      This was almost 30 years ago, long before social media, and I remember it like it was yesterday.

    From then on I started to understand why some of the players had huge egos.  Not to the point where it's an excuse to abuse a woman,  mind you.  But I definitely had a better understanding on why these guys might think the way they do.  They had women literally lining up, begging and fighting to sleep with them each and every night during camp.  I can see how some might not be able to disconnect (or might not have the intellect from getting their head hit so many times)  to pick the one doesn't want to.   

    Again, not an excuse, but a better understanding.  If you are always around "yes" people, you are always going to expect "yes" from everyone.

      Parents, schools and teams to do a better job of teaching them right from wrong and not always saying "yes" and covering up indiscretions. 






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
    mrsconn23short+sassyOliveOilsMom
  • Re. Garrison Keillor....whoa. 

    Like @lyndausvi said, this is the tip of the iceberg. 
    *********************************************************************************

    image
    mrsconn23lyndausvicharlotte989875
  • @lyndausvi Hockey players are similar.
    Erik Karlsson - captain of the Sens, home team hockey - is recently married and about to be a dad {we're guessing his wife's due date is near mine .... lol}

    Anyways! M's uncle is part of the music industry and while they were still in our city, Karlsson would walk around with a harem of women and would get access to where ever he wanted.

    I feel like athletes are expected - and are often treated - to act like rockstars.

    Which also makes me think, I wonder if the music industry will have similar things. Music industry and Hollywood work very close, and I know a celeb photographer {Terry Richards} has had accusations pretty recently ....
  • Yeah, Terry Richardson has been blackballed by all of Conde Nast and a few other magazines.  He's a creepy fuck.  I think he's also had a kid recently.  Poor child. 
    charlotte989875MissKittyDanger
  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    @lyndausvi Hockey players are similar.
    Erik Karlsson - captain of the Sens, home team hockey - is recently married and about to be a dad {we're guessing his wife's due date is near mine .... lol}

    Anyways! M's uncle is part of the music industry and while they were still in our city, Karlsson would walk around with a harem of women and would get access to where ever he wanted.

    I feel like athletes are expected - and are often treated - to act like rockstars.

    Which also makes me think, I wonder if the music industry will have similar things. Music industry and Hollywood work very close, and I know a celeb photographer {Terry Richards} has had accusations pretty recently ....
    I'm surprised they were not exposed after Weinstein.   I know about the one with Ke$ha, but no doubt there are others.  

    I bet they are all shaking in their boots.  HA.












    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • lyndausvi said:
    @lyndausvi Hockey players are similar.
    Erik Karlsson - captain of the Sens, home team hockey - is recently married and about to be a dad {we're guessing his wife's due date is near mine .... lol}

    Anyways! M's uncle is part of the music industry and while they were still in our city, Karlsson would walk around with a harem of women and would get access to where ever he wanted.

    I feel like athletes are expected - and are often treated - to act like rockstars.

    Which also makes me think, I wonder if the music industry will have similar things. Music industry and Hollywood work very close, and I know a celeb photographer {Terry Richards} has had accusations pretty recently ....
    I'm surprised they were not exposed after Weinstein.   I know about the one with Ke$ha, but no doubt there are others.  

    I bet they are all shaking in their boots.  HA.
    Dr Luke case was such bull :( He got off scott-free!

    I hope they're shaking. I hope more people come out about Dr Luke especially. Grrr ...
    mrsconn23
  • Idk why this wasn't more in the public because male being harassed!
    Not just any male. Terry Crews, who isn't a small human either.


    https://www.boredpanda.com/terry-crews-harassment-groping-story/
    mrsconn23short+sassy
  • Side bit of joy, just found out my office is closing between Dec 22nd and Jan 2nd :)

    I have never been off then! We've had reduced hours because of holidays, etc etc but omg :') I'm so excited!

    WHOA!!!  And I'm assuming that is paid time off?  Congrats!  That is awesome news.

    I'm planning to take Dec. 22nd and Dec. 26th off.  But I have to use vacation days for that.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
    mrsconn23
  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten Detroit, MI member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    TMZ is reporting that NBC has been investigating Lauer "for weeks."  They knew his reputation and the rumors (Natalie Morales' sudden departure). 

    @southernelle0915 I'm with you on the optimism, especially with all of the people who believe the accusations have noble gone too far and that "lthis is how women are really going to get jobs now." 
    image
    MissKittyDangermrsconn23charlotte989875
  • Side bit of joy, just found out my office is closing between Dec 22nd and Jan 2nd :)

    I have never been off then! We've had reduced hours because of holidays, etc etc but omg :') I'm so excited!

    WHOA!!!  And I'm assuming that is paid time off?  Congrats!  That is awesome news.

    I'm planning to take Dec. 22nd and Dec. 26th off.  But I have to use vacation days for that.

    Yup! It was crazy to go from working retail to an office to have weekends off, and we're typically closed on boxing day. But now, it's like .... whoa!
    short+sassy
  • And everyone should now go listen to Gabrielle Union's interview with Anna Sale on Death, Sex, Money.  ;) 

    http://www.wnyc.org/shows/deathsexmoney/
    MissKittyDanger
  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten Detroit, MI member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    edited November 2017
    Someone we know who is running for State Attorney General has a new FB ad that's a tongue in cheek play on this saying the best way to ensure no one shows you their penis at work is to elevate/elect more women. 

    Some people are all angry about it, her response is basically this ad is minor compared to things men in power are actually doing. 

    I thought the ad was genius and hilarious. 

    ETA the front running dems for Governor, AG, SOS and US Congress are all women so there's a lot of talk about "can we elect an all woman ticket."  Her ad is also in response to that. 
    image
    mrsconn23
  • TMZ is reporting that NBC has been investigating Lauer "for weeks."  They knew his reputation and the rumors (Natalie Morales' sudden departure). 

    @southernelle0915 I'm with you on the optimism, especially with all of the people who believe the accusations have noble gone too far and that "lthis is how women are really going to get jobs now." 
    Oh god, I heard some woe-is-me, white man say something like that.... "well I guess men just won't get promoted anymore and women will take over the work place. Feminism is just killing morale." Oh, it's feminism that's killing morale....
    Image result for yeah ok gif
    Damn gender equality! *shakes fist*
    short+sassy
  • Idk why this wasn't more in the public because male being harassed!
    Not just any male. Terry Crews, who isn't a small human either.


    https://www.boredpanda.com/terry-crews-harassment-groping-story/


    I remember when his story came out.  And let me be one of the many who have already applauded him for speaking out.

    His voice is an especially notable one because he is not what people picture when they think of a sexual harassment victim.  He's a very physically strong and powerful man.  He's definitely not someone one would picture as being a victim of anything.

    But that didn't matter, because it doesn't.  Because sexual harassment/sex crimes are about power.  Are about sick individuals showing their victims that they have the upper hand.

    Although he doesn't name the perpetrator, I think we can safely assume that Terry Crews could have knocked that guy out cold.  But he didn't.  That person may not have been physically more powerful than Terry, but he was more powerful in their industry.  Terry was worried about being arrested, if he'd punched him.  He was worried about what headlines would say.  He was worried about being ostracized in the industry he loved working in and was his livelihood.  He felt demeaned and humiliated.  He felt powerless to say or do anything.

    So many of the same reactions and emotions you hear from victims of sexual harassment, whether male or female.  And in stark contrast to the b.s. often heard in regards to these issues, especially in the entertainment industry.  Like, "why didn't she say something sooner", "she didn't fight very hard", "I don't know what (famous actress) is complaining about, she got something out of it (har, har, har, har)", "what did she expect going into that industry", etc.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
    charlotte989875MissKittyDanger
  • OliveOilsMomOliveOilsMom South Jersey member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers

    Busy day at the office today!

    So we dropped our car off at the dealership because of a problem with our brake light.  H replaced the bulb but it still didn't work.  He then replaced the fuse, just in case.  So we did the dealership because we thought it would be wiring and then covered by our warranty.  They charge a $69 diagnosis fee, that ends up going to the final bill if we pay, but refunded if its under warranty.  H put in the wrong kind of bulb, so we just paid $69 for a new one:( There are single and double filament bulbs, H bought the single and we needed double. 

    SSDD otherwise.

    Kimmi - I hope the deal with the hotel works out!  You can advertise Gatsby weddings if so!!!!!

    Charlotte - Glad the house will be off your hands!

    As for the change in topic -

    Not surprised about Matt Lauer.  I was a little shocked, that they just outright fired him instead of a suspension, then ultimate firing.  But they must know the evidence is solid.  Though, since he hasn't spoken to his defense yet, that NBC must have decided to pay out his contract.  I still think of the BS Lauer did for the Commander in Chief Q&A with Clinton & Trump.  He was throwing hard questions at Clinton and then big softballs to Trump.  And he never followed up and called out Trump on his lies.  There was a rumor of him and Natalie Morales having an affair.  Then also the poor treatment of Ann Curry. 

    A sport figure with sexual harassment, but no long term damage done to his career is Peyton Manning.  Most people act like he is an amazing person, but he was a total ass (literally) to a female trainer back in college.  That has been pretty well swept under the rug.

    Terry Crews has been seen leaving a police department not long after he reported his sexual assault via twitter.  I believe that he filed charges against the person and that person has been identified as a producer.

    charlotte989875MissKittyDangershort+sassysparklepants41
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