Controversy Chat

holyguacamole79

Has anyone seen this story about a teenage girl who didn't wear a bra to school?

As a high school teacher, I have several comments:

1)  Their dress code is super vague and subject to interpretation:
According to the policy, if a student's "personal attire or grooming distracts the attention of other students or teachers from their school work, disrupts educational activities and processes of the school, or is a potential safety hazard, you will be required to make the necessary alterations to such attire or grooming before entering the classroom or you may be assigned to In-School Suspension (ISS)."

So, if a student wears a t-shirt with a Bible verse on it, could an atheist student / teacher claim that it's distracting?  If a female student wears a bra and you can see it through her shirt, is that distracting?  

2)  There is a common "complaint" that a woman's breasts are sexualized.  Duh - they have been for quite some time!  I remember when I worked in the corporate world, one example given of sexual harassment was having a revealing swimsuit calendar in your office area.  So, we as a society admit in this setting that seeing a woman in a bikini can be interpreted / perceived as sexual, but we get upset when a female girl does this?

3)  It's not necessarily about boys (or even lesbian girls)!!  I teach at an all-girls Catholic high school and it's distracting when a student wears a hot pink bra under her white uniform shirt (yes, some of them do that).  Some of them sit VERY relaxed in the classroom in their uniform skirt because they all wear running shorts underneath.  It's distracting to be lecturing and see a high school girl manspreading in class.  



Any other thoughts?

charlotte989875

I'm sure it's a shock to everyone here that I have a problem with how the school handled it. 

At what age, breast size, nipple size, etc. is a bra required in society? I wear one because I feel more comfortable this way, but I know many women who choose to never wear bras. So what? 

I find the fact that a teacher was looking at her chest long enough to determine she wasn't wearing a bra, and specifically was concerned about her nipples, a much MUCH bigger problem than her choice of clothing. 

ALSO, who TF thinks it's a good idea for an administrator to tell her to put on a different shirt and move around in front of them?! Seriously, no. Stop policing young women's bodies. What if you can see boys nipples through their shirts? Or their erections (which like isn't totally out of the realm of possibility for high school boys) through their pants? Are we going to start telling them to cover it up? Didn't think so. 



holyguacamole79 said:

Has anyone seen this story about a teenage girl who didn't wear a bra to school?

As a high school teacher, I have several comments:

1)  Their dress code is super vague and subject to interpretation:
According to the policy, if a student's "personal attire or grooming distracts the attention of other students or teachers from their school work, disrupts educational activities and processes of the school, or is a potential safety hazard, you will be required to make the necessary alterations to such attire or grooming before entering the classroom or you may be assigned to In-School Suspension (ISS)."

So, if a student wears a t-shirt with a Bible verse on it, could an atheist student / teacher claim that it's distracting?  If a female student wears a bra and you can see it through her shirt, is that distracting?  

2)  There is a common "complaint" that a woman's breasts are sexualized.  Duh - they have been for quite some time!  I remember when I worked in the corporate world, one example given of sexual harassment was having a revealing swimsuit calendar in your office area.  So, we as a society admit in this setting that seeing a woman in a bikini can be interpreted / perceived as sexual, but we get upset when a female girl does this?

3)  It's not necessarily about boys (or even lesbian girls)!!  I teach at an all-girls Catholic high school and it's distracting when a student wears a hot pink bra under her white uniform shirt (yes, some of them do that).  Some of them sit VERY relaxed in the classroom in their uniform skirt because they all wear running shorts underneath.  It's distracting to be lecturing and see a high school girl manspreading in class.  



Any other thoughts?

Bolded 1: Unlikely, although possible. If it is passive & the student isn't talking about it, advocating, etc. then it's a passive expression of speech, which is almost always protected even in public high schools (private is a totally different story). 

Bolded 2: Apples and oranges, IMO. Calendar in a place of business contributes to a hostile work environment by (potentially) demeaning women, making them feel uncomfortable, or giving off an attitude that sexualizing women in the workplace is acceptable. This? It's a girl's body being policed by older adults. I don't see how a girl not wearing a bra is in anyway unacceptable, given the oversized shirt she was wearing.


Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

holyguacamole79

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

holyguacamole79

Bolded 2: Apples and oranges, IMO. Calendar in a place of business contributes to a hostile work environment by (potentially) demeaning women, making them feel uncomfortable, or giving off an attitude that sexualizing women in the workplace is acceptable. This? It's a girl's body being policed by older adults. I don't see how a girl not wearing a bra is in anyway unacceptable, given the oversized shirt she was wearing.

What I'm saying is that it seems like we're holding a double standard.  Where's the line?  I agree that, in this specific case, considering the sizing of the shirt, it's not as noticeable (at least not in this picture).  What if a student came to school, though, wearing a low cut tank top without a bra?  If a man has a calendar with a woman wearing not much less, that's validly uncomfortable, but a girl wearing it IRL is okay?

STARMOON44

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I’ll call you inappropriate all day long about this!

if you are distracted by teenage girls sitting with their private parts covered because of your notions of decorum the problem here is you. Are they blocking the aisles? Ask them to move. If not, maybe try harder?

im shocked at this to be honest

STARMOON44

charlotte989875 said:

I'm sure it's a shock to everyone here that I have a problem with how the school handled it. 

At what age, breast size, nipple size, etc. is a bra required in society? I wear one because I feel more comfortable this way, but I know many women who choose to never wear bras. So what? 

I find the fact that a teacher was looking at her chest long enough to determine she wasn't wearing a bra, and specifically was concerned about her nipples, a much MUCH bigger problem than her choice of clothing. 

ALSO, who TF thinks it's a good idea for an administrator to tell her to put on a different shirt and move around in front of them?! Seriously, no. Stop policing young women's bodies. What if you can see boys nipples through their shirts? Or their erections (which like isn't totally out of the realm of possibility for high school boys) through their pants? Are we going to start telling them to cover it up? Didn't think so. 



holyguacamole79 said:

Has anyone seen this story about a teenage girl who didn't wear a bra to school?

As a high school teacher, I have several comments:

1)  Their dress code is super vague and subject to interpretation:
According to the policy, if a student's "personal attire or grooming distracts the attention of other students or teachers from their school work, disrupts educational activities and processes of the school, or is a potential safety hazard, you will be required to make the necessary alterations to such attire or grooming before entering the classroom or you may be assigned to In-School Suspension (ISS)."

So, if a student wears a t-shirt with a Bible verse on it, could an atheist student / teacher claim that it's distracting?  If a female student wears a bra and you can see it through her shirt, is that distracting?  

2)  There is a common "complaint" that a woman's breasts are sexualized.  Duh - they have been for quite some time!  I remember when I worked in the corporate world, one example given of sexual harassment was having a revealing swimsuit calendar in your office area.  So, we as a society admit in this setting that seeing a woman in a bikini can be interpreted / perceived as sexual, but we get upset when a female girl does this?

3)  It's not necessarily about boys (or even lesbian girls)!!  I teach at an all-girls Catholic high school and it's distracting when a student wears a hot pink bra under her white uniform shirt (yes, some of them do that).  Some of them sit VERY relaxed in the classroom in their uniform skirt because they all wear running shorts underneath.  It's distracting to be lecturing and see a high school girl manspreading in class.  



Any other thoughts?

Bolded 1: Unlikely, although possible. If it is passive & the student isn't talking about it, advocating, etc. then it's a passive expression of speech, which is almost always protected even in public high schools (private is a totally different story). 

Bolded 2: Apples and oranges, IMO. Calendar in a place of business contributes to a hostile work environment by (potentially) demeaning women, making them feel uncomfortable, or giving off an attitude that sexualizing women in the workplace is acceptable. This? It's a girl's body being policed by older adults. I don't see how a girl not wearing a bra is in anyway unacceptable, given the oversized shirt she was wearing.


Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

Completely agree. It’s bullying. 

MissKittyDanger

Policies have gotten ridiculous and where I am, most of them are directed towards females. That may be unintentional, but it's still a thing.

Clothing policies when I was in school {fyi - graduated h.s in 2005}
- tank top straps to be 2 fingers wide {likely to cover bra straps}
- skirt/shorts not to be shorter than longest finger when standing straight
- no gang colours
- no drug paraphernalia {ie; shirt with giant pot leaf on it}
- no crop/belly tops

Now, there's often stuff on the news about leggings and yoga pants being not allowed to be worn in school.


I get the distracting part if the girls are 'manspreading' but how the ever loving fuck is any of the other stuff distracting?

{note: the gang wear was because the district was near where some young gang members would live}

ShesSoCold

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I'm torn on the subject and don't feel like I have anything useful to input, but I gotta say that I disagree with the bolded, holyguac.

Dress codes and that stuff aside, people don't get to tell other people what should or shouldn't make them comfortable. Plus they're wearing shorts. Sitting any certain way with running shorts would be appropriate. Why is it suddenly inappropriate when they have a skirt on over it?

holyguacamole79

STARMOON44 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I’ll call you inappropriate all day long about this!

if you are distracted by teenage girls sitting with their private parts covered because of your notions of decorum the problem here is you. Are they blocking the aisles? Ask them to move. If not, maybe try harder?

im shocked at this to be honest

Do you think it's appropriate for them to sit like that in a public place?  What I tell them is that it should not feel comfortable / natural to sit like that.  

holyguacamole79

ShesSoCold said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I'm torn on the subject and don't feel like I have anything useful to input, but I gotta say that I disagree with the bolded, holyguac.

Dress codes and that stuff aside, people don't get to tell other people what should or shouldn't make them comfortable. Plus they're wearing shorts. Sitting any certain way with running shorts would be appropriate. Why is it suddenly inappropriate when they have a skirt on over it?

I think it's a matter of how they would sit if they were wearing a skirt alone.  I notice that they are developing habits of what feels natural / appropriate.

STARMOON44

holyguacamole79 said:

STARMOON44 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I’ll call you inappropriate all day long about this!

if you are distracted by teenage girls sitting with their private parts covered because of your notions of decorum the problem here is you. Are they blocking the aisles? Ask them to move. If not, maybe try harder?

im shocked at this to be honest

Do you think it's appropriate for them to sit like that in a public place?  What I tell them is that it should not feel comfortable / natural to sit like that.  

Yes!!!! Of course! Why shouldn’t it? The problem with manspreading is when it takes up room that should be shared with others. So yes, certainly, if they are blocking the aisles and in your way ask them to move. If not? Why is it your job as their teacher to tell them how they should feel about their bodies? 

charlotte989875

holyguacamole79 said:

ShesSoCold said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I'm torn on the subject and don't feel like I have anything useful to input, but I gotta say that I disagree with the bolded, holyguac.

Dress codes and that stuff aside, people don't get to tell other people what should or shouldn't make them comfortable. Plus they're wearing shorts. Sitting any certain way with running shorts would be appropriate. Why is it suddenly inappropriate when they have a skirt on over it?

I think it's a matter of how they would sit if they were wearing a skirt alone.  I notice that they are developing habits of what feels natural / appropriate.

My take is that they know the difference between wearing shorts under a skirt, and not. 

STARMOON44

holyguacamole79 said:

ShesSoCold said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I'm torn on the subject and don't feel like I have anything useful to input, but I gotta say that I disagree with the bolded, holyguac.

Dress codes and that stuff aside, people don't get to tell other people what should or shouldn't make them comfortable. Plus they're wearing shorts. Sitting any certain way with running shorts would be appropriate. Why is it suddenly inappropriate when they have a skirt on over it?

I think it's a matter of how they would sit if they were wearing a skirt alone.  I notice that they are developing habits of what feels natural / appropriate.

And? This is your business because? They aren’t exposing themselves to you or their classmates. 

MissKittyDanger

holyguacamole79 said:

ShesSoCold said:

holyguacamole79 said:

Bolded 3: What's the problem if they have shorts on? And what is the difference if it is a high school girl v. a high school boy manspreading, if they both have shorts on? 

I've told them that they shouldn't feel comfortable sitting like that with a skirt on, period.  Call me old fashioned, but I think it's just not proper / appropriate. 


FWIW, I totally agree that the school handled it inappropriately.  We had a student last week come to Mass wearing a dress that was way too short.  It was noticed by the school president when she walked in, who quietly sent the student to change.  I only knew about it when I saw her walk in late with her mom looking furious behind her.  And I only noticed that because I was standing in the back of the church ushering.

I'm torn on the subject and don't feel like I have anything useful to input, but I gotta say that I disagree with the bolded, holyguac.

Dress codes and that stuff aside, people don't get to tell other people what should or shouldn't make them comfortable. Plus they're wearing shorts. Sitting any certain way with running shorts would be appropriate. Why is it suddenly inappropriate when they have a skirt on over it?

I think it's a matter of how they would sit if they were wearing a skirt alone.  I notice that they are developing habits of what feels natural / appropriate.

Yes.
My mother still gives me hell about sitting properly in a skirt fyi

TrixieJess

holyguacamole79 said:

Has anyone seen this story about a teenage girl who didn't wear a bra to school?

As a high school teacher, I have several comments:

1)  Their dress code is super vague and subject to interpretation:
According to the policy, if a student's "personal attire or grooming distracts the attention of other students or teachers from their school work, disrupts educational activities and processes of the school, or is a potential safety hazard, you will be required to make the necessary alterations to such attire or grooming before entering the classroom or you may be assigned to In-School Suspension (ISS)."

So, if a student wears a t-shirt with a Bible verse on it, could an atheist student / teacher claim that it's distracting?  If a female student wears a bra and you can see it through her shirt, is that distracting?  

2)  There is a common "complaint" that a woman's breasts are sexualized.  Duh - they have been for quite some time!  I remember when I worked in the corporate world, one example given of sexual harassment was having a revealing swimsuit calendar in your office area.  So, we as a society admit in this setting that seeing a woman in a bikini can be interpreted / perceived as sexual, but we get upset when a female girl does this?

3)  It's not necessarily about boys (or even lesbian girls)!!  I teach at an all-girls Catholic high school and it's distracting when a student wears a hot pink bra under her white uniform shirt (yes, some of them do that).  Some of them sit VERY relaxed in the classroom in their uniform skirt because they all wear running shorts underneath.  It's distracting to be lecturing and see a high school girl manspreading in class.  



Any other thoughts?

I went to a Catholic School with a strict uniform policy. If the teachers could see through the flimsy white shirts they made us wear, they would make us put on a sweater, or a t-shirt underneath, boys or girls. 

That being said, uniforms and dress codes are supposed to be enacted to ensure equity. When you start enforcing them in stupid sexist ways, then the code is not being used in the way it was intended. 

mrsconn23

Ugh.  This was handled horribly.  I cannot believe they made her do calisthenics to check the 'bounce' and movement.  Well I can, but it makes me want to throw up thinking about it. 

And I *hate* the invocation of 'distraction' because it always has to do with a man's boner.   It would be nice if school admins would tell teenage boys to STFU about their boners because it's inappropriate to talk about what gives you a boner in school. 

short+sassy

I'm of two minds on this.  I think a school can dictate a certain level of professionalism, that can include the way people dress.  My workplace certainly can.  Some workplaces are super strict about dress, ie everyone has to wear suits, including ties for men.  But that can lead to more restrictions for women, which can quickly turn into b.s.   Partially because women generally have a much larger variety of clothes that they wear.  But also because our society has a sick, long history of sexualizing women.  Even, and sometimes especially (gag), underage ones.  So we're quick to notice the "skirt that's too short" or the "top that's too low cut".

At a school, no one should be allowed to wear sweatpants, unless it is gym class.  No one should be allowed to wear see-through clothing and/or have their underwear showing, ie @holyguacamole the example you gave with hot pink bras under white uniform shirts.  And, perhaps an UO, but I think a school can also dictate that students need to wear proper underwear.

Generally speaking, I think it looks unkempt if a woman isn't wearing a bra in public and it's obvious at a glance.  I also think it looks unkempt if a man isn't wearing underwear in public and it's obvious at a glance.  That's probably society's programming, but it's there anyway.

I think it's even more distasteful when people go out in public in a bathrobe and house shoes, smh.  But that's a subject for another day.

With all that said, I was HORRIFIED that they actually had this poor girl jump around and wiggle (I guess) to see if they could still tell she was braless after putting a second shirt on.  And the whole band-aids thing was ridiculous also.

STARMOON44

short+sassy said:

I'm of two minds on this.  I think a school can dictate a certain level of professionalism, that can include the way people dress.  My workplace certainly can.  Some workplaces are super strict about dress, ie everyone has to wear suits, including ties for men.  But that can lead to more restrictions for women, which can quickly turn into b.s.   Partially because women generally have a much larger variety of clothes that they wear.  But also because our society has a sick, long history of sexualizing women.  Even, and sometimes especially (gag), underage ones.  So we're quick to notice the "skirt that's too short" or the "top that's too low cut".

At a school, no one should be allowed to wear sweatpants, unless it is gym class.  No one should be allowed to wear see-through clothing and/or have their underwear showing, ie @holyguacamole the example you gave with hot pink bras under white uniform shirts.  And, perhaps an UO, but I think a school can also dictate that students need to wear proper underwear.

Generally speaking, I think it looks unkempt if a woman isn't wearing a bra in public and it's obvious at a glance.  I also think it looks unkempt if a man isn't wearing underwear in public and it's obvious at a glance.  That's probably society's programming, but it's there anyway.

I think it's even more distasteful when people go out in public in a bathrobe and house shoes, smh.  But that's a subject for another day.

With all that said, I was HORRIFIED that they actually had this poor girl jump around and wiggle (I guess) to see if they could still tell she was braless after putting a second shirt on.  And the whole band-aids thing was ridiculous also.

Sweatpants are one of the most common school uniforms in our urban districts. They are warm, cheap, comfortable, available from many stores. Idk why they’d be a problem for any teacher to cope with having in class. 

banana468

I'm no fan of super-vague dress codes and certainly don't like ones that allow the school the leeway to borderline assault a minor. 

Also, if I were the parent I'd have HUGE issues with how the school handled it up to and considering an attorney.   Asking my kid to bounce up and down?   FFS no.  I'm nearly flat chested but a girl with a large chest can bounce too.  Checking for the bounce?   Yeah - I would be in there and irate and not ready w/ buzzfeed.   I'd be out for disciplinary action for the teachers who thought that making my daughter move to see how much her breasts bounced was an appropriate activity.   

And a lightly lined nearly unpadded bra can show a nipple.   So what was the school out to accomplish here?   Unfortunately unless their code of conduct and dress code specifically states "females are expected to wear a bra and nipples should not be able to poke through clothing" then they also need to change.   And then that needs to apply to the teachers too.   My HS choir teacher would conduct and we knew she wore a bra - but we also saw tic tacs through her blouse.   People giggled but she wasn't inappropriate.  

As for the Catholic HS, I wonder why they have a requirement to wear a skirt if they can wear the athletic shorts under it.   It sort of defeats the purpose if the school is requiring a skirt but the shorts are allowed too.   I don't really get that.

mrsconn23

banana468 said:

And a lightly lined nearly unpadded bra can show a nipple.   So what was the school out to accomplish here?   Unfortunately unless their code of conduct and dress code specifically states "females are expected to wear a bra and nipples should not be able to poke through clothing" then they also need to change.   And then that needs to apply to the teachers too.   My HS choir teacher would conduct and we knew she wore a bra - but we also saw tic tacs through her blouse.   People giggled but she wasn't inappropriate.  

Or a sports bra...because even if I buy a sports bra that has pads, I remove them.  I don't need that kind of help, LOL.  

The whole 'investigation' is stomach turning.  

short+sassy

STARMOON44 said:

short+sassy said:

At a school, no one should be allowed to wear sweatpants, unless it is gym class.  No one should be allowed to wear see-through clothing and/or have their underwear showing, ie @holyguacamole the example you gave with hot pink bras under white uniform shirts.  And, perhaps an UO, but I think a school can also dictate that students need to wear proper underwear.

Sweatpants are one of the most common school uniforms in our urban districts. They are warm, cheap, comfortable, available from many stores. Idk why they’d be a problem for any teacher to cope with having in class. 

Fair enough.  I guess if they are the norm for a school, then it's fine.  Though they weren't at my HS.  I think sweatpants look really sloppy in public (unless someone is coming to/from the gym), so I just assumed they were a "no" at many schools.

Don't get me wrong, other than an occasional side-eye for some things...probably not even sweatpants...I don't really care what people wear in public.  But there are a few things I personally wouldn't be caught dead wearing in public and sweatpants and/or no bra are two of them.

holyguacamole79

banana468 said:

As for the Catholic HS, I wonder why they have a requirement to wear a skirt if they can wear the athletic shorts under it.   It sort of defeats the purpose if the school is requiring a skirt but the shorts are allowed too.   I don't really get that.

I didn't write our dress code, but I imagine for ours the requirement is there because they shouldn't be running around in Nike shorts.

I have a few students who still wear their uniform on free dress days.  I asked one of them once (out of curiosity) and she said, "I just feel more professional and ready to work in my uniform."  I thought that was interesting.

FWIW, our uniform policy in the handbook is spelled out very specifically.  It actually takes up almost 3 pages.  It does include, though, specifications for how to dress for Mass, free dress days, and dances.  And, yes, it includes requirements for the boys.

I get to chaperone prom in a few weeks (yay).  Last year when I did, I think 2 students were told to modify their dresses and they were blatantly revealing.

TrixieJess

banana468 said:

I'm no fan of super-vague dress codes and certainly don't like ones that allow the school the leeway to borderline assault a minor. 

Also, if I were the parent I'd have HUGE issues with how the school handled it up to and considering an attorney.   Asking my kid to bounce up and down?   FFS no.  I'm nearly flat chested but a girl with a large chest can bounce too.  Checking for the bounce?   Yeah - I would be in there and irate and not ready w/ buzzfeed.   I'd be out for disciplinary action for the teachers who thought that making my daughter move to see how much her breasts bounced was an appropriate activity.   

And a lightly lined nearly unpadded bra can show a nipple.   So what was the school out to accomplish here?   Unfortunately unless their code of conduct and dress code specifically states "females are expected to wear a bra and nipples should not be able to poke through clothing" then they also need to change.   And then that needs to apply to the teachers too.   My HS choir teacher would conduct and we knew she wore a bra - but we also saw tic tacs through her blouse.   People giggled but she wasn't inappropriate.  

As for the Catholic HS, I wonder why they have a requirement to wear a skirt if they can wear the athletic shorts under it.   It sort of defeats the purpose if the school is requiring a skirt but the shorts are allowed too.   I don't really get that.

At my high school we weren't required to wear shorts underneath, but many girls wore shorts under their kilts because the boys would sit under the stairs. Most teachers never saw these shorts. Now, I think some of the Catholic High Schools have skorts because girls started wearing either nothing under their kilts, or thongs. 

banana468

@holyguacamole79 and @TrixieJess, got it.   

I would think that if the goal is to have kids in skirts then don't allow the shorts under them - that would be in adhering to dress code, etc.

climbingsingle

I think you're totally out of line to be telling these young ladies they have to sit in a way YOU find acceptable. 

"Manspreading" became a thing because of how men were sitting on public transportation. It's rude because they take up more space than they need to, encroaching on the space of others, taking up room unnecessarily. 

These girls are wearing shorts under their skirts. I don't see what the issue is. You're also not their parent, so instructing them to "sit like a lady" is really not something you should be doing, IMO. Are they creating a safety hazard in the aisles? Is their sitting position causing them to not pay attention in class? Those are the situations you should be concerned about. 

The calendar situation doesn't really make any sense. Women have breasts. I can't take mine off when I leave the house to go to work. A person hanging up a calendar is a choice. My breasts are not creating a hostile work environment by existing on my body. 

STARMOON44

banana468 said:

@holyguacamole79 and @TrixieJess, got it.   

I would think that if the goal is to have kids in skirts then don't allow the shorts under them - that would be in adhering to dress code, etc.

And if that’s the goal, then maybe think 50 more times about why it is the goal. Girls can learn in pants. 

holyguacamole79

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

@holyguacamole79 and @TrixieJess, got it.   

I would think that if the goal is to have kids in skirts then don't allow the shorts under them - that would be in adhering to dress code, etc.

And if that’s the goal, then maybe think 50 more times about why it is the goal. Girls can learn in pants. 

Our uniform policy actually allows ours to wear shorts or pants provided by our uniform company.  I'd estimate maybe 5-10 in the whole school of 350 actually wear the uniform shorts / pants.

I imagine shorts under the skirts are "okay" for ours since we're in a high rise building and they're going up & down stairs all day. 

ei34

What a story.  I don’t know whether to cry, scream, or throw up.  #thisiswhyimarch

That poor student having to bounce up and down and use bandaids.  She’ll never forget that.  The boys she made uncomfortable couldn’t have just looked away?!  Reminds me of colleges offering “how to not get raped” seminars for incoming female students instead of “don’t rape” seminars for male students.  What’s really the problem here? 

Im at a Catholic co-ed high school, and there’s a clear dress code in place.  It’s become more specific and less vague over the years, as needed.  Plenty my students are inappropriate.  The guys talk about getting f*ked and p*ssy and who has the best c*nt.  The girls talk about who has the best c*ck for f*cking vs. going down.  Those exact words.  Very crass.  Even with a strict uniform in place during school hours, some of the girls still post on Snapchat wearing next to nothing and some of the boys send dick pics.  The teens that want to be sexual will be.  I definitely don’t think this particular student was trying to entice anyone or be suggestive when she went braless.  Just an unfortunate example of female breasts being oversexualized.

banana468

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

@holyguacamole79 and @TrixieJess, got it.   

I would think that if the goal is to have kids in skirts then don't allow the shorts under them - that would be in adhering to dress code, etc.

And if that’s the goal, then maybe think 50 more times about why it is the goal. Girls can learn in pants. 

Agreed.    

ei34

banana468 said:

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

@holyguacamole79 and @TrixieJess, got it.   

I would think that if the goal is to have kids in skirts then don't allow the shorts under them - that would be in adhering to dress code, etc.

And if that’s the goal, then maybe think 50 more times about why it is the goal. Girls can learn in pants. 

Agreed.    

My high school’s dress code is the same uniform pants for everyone.  They even have the school name on the upper leg so students can’t wear different pants.  I actually attended the school myself when the girls wore skirts- too many teachers complained about having to take a ruler to a female studebt’s leg to make sure the skirt wasn’t more than 2” over the knee.  Girls learn just as well in pants.  

holyguacamole79

eileenrob said:

banana468 said:

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

@holyguacamole79 and @TrixieJess, got it.   

I would think that if the goal is to have kids in skirts then don't allow the shorts under them - that would be in adhering to dress code, etc.

And if that’s the goal, then maybe think 50 more times about why it is the goal. Girls can learn in pants. 

Agreed.    

My high school’s dress code is the same uniform pants for everyone.  They even have the school name on the upper leg so students can’t wear different pants.  I actually attended the school myself when the girls wore skirts- too many teachers complained about having to take a ruler to a female studebt’s leg to make sure the skirt wasn’t more than 2” over the knee.  Girls learn just as well in pants.  

Just curious .... are you referring to the school you attended growing up?  Or do you now work at this school?