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Wedding Woes

Unpopular Opinions

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Re: Unpopular Opinions

  • @CharmedPam's Wed. post reminded me of another UO I have.

    I do not like little black dresses (LBD's).  For myself.  I have nothing against them on other people.  I do not have one.  I will never own one.  Just no.

    Black is a horrible color on me and I prefer vibrant colors anyway.  Outside of one suit and a few plain t-shirts and sweaters, I don't wear black at all.

    I wanted a black wedding dress.  But they were all custom and over my price range.  But black - slimming! LOL

    I tried on a few black gowns when I was dress shopping and I think my 90 year old grandma (who had offered to pay for my dress) almost fainted!  I ended up with a stark white dress that was beautiful, but I was all about at least trying the black!!

    I rarely donate/get rid of dresses so I have probably 40 in a guest room closet.  I would guess a good half of them are black.  I like black.

    short+sassy
  • I tried on a blush pink dress and my mom definitely clutched her pearls.  
    short+sassy
  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited August 2018

    Speaking of "outside the norm" wedding dress colors.  White is another hideous color on me.  Even my mom told me I should pick a cream colored gown instead of white, because it would be more warming to my skin tone.

    But then, I gave a lot of thought to wearing an emerald green ball gown as my wedding dress.  Which is a fabulous color on me.  Everyone I mentioned it to, including my mom and FI (now H), were all on-board with the idea if that was what I wanted.

    But, in the end, 30+ years of stupid-stupid-stupid social norms and conventions influencing my emotions, won out.  I just didn't feel "bridal" in a brightly colored ball gown.  As a compromise, I bought a white wedding dress that had red embroidery throughout the bodice and around the hem.  I was surprised that just that little bit of color on the dress really livened up my face and kept me from looking completely washed out.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • MobKaz said:
    @banana468, sorry.  Check writer here.  I understand ALL the talking points as to why credit is better/safer/has incentives, etc., and I do use it for large/major purchases.  However, on a day to day basis, checks keep me "in check" on my spending. It makes me NUTS when I see people "swipe" a $3 item!

    If an item is less than $20, I use cash.  If it's over $20, then I'll write a check.  It keeps me honest and subconsciously helps me answer that question, "Do I really need/want this?"

    ETA:   When writing a check, I tend to have most of it pre-written out with the exception of the amount. I do try to be considerate of lines and the people behind me. 

    As an older gal, I hate when people ask me when I'm going to retire.  Is there anything wrong with enjoying what you do and not being in any hurry to stop?  **Disclosure.....work in a school, so plenty of time/days off to enjoy life in addition to working.
    Here's the thing though: my AmEx has purchase protection and I get points for every $ spent and at the end of the month it needs to be paid off.   For DH and me (with our own separate AmEx accounts) that IS a checking account.   We just issue one payment/mo.   And if there's an issue with a payment, I go to AmEx vs. the absolute PITA it is when you have an issue with a check or debit payment at the bank and need the money put back in your account.    It's an absolute win to NOT use my checking account on a day to day for both effort and safety.

    Also, now that we're in the era of direct deposit, I don't get a check from my company.   I really rarely have cash and only now have it for day trips w/ kiddos in town to the local ice cream shops which have a $10 min on my cc.   DH is the primary grocery shopper in the home based on our schedules and he can get in and out without kids.   Our bank is IN the grocery store and therefore I'm often having to make a special trip to get money.   It's not worth it.  Plastic  FTW. 


    short+sassycharlotte989875
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions which usually treat the animals horribly and are just there for money making ventures.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    is anybody else having "post pending approval" when you try to post something issues?
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    VarunaTT said:
    I go back and forth on zoos and I'm not sure I'm comfortable landing in any for/against area.

    Re: the natural selection argument, it isn't natural selection that is forcing most animals on endangered species lists into extinction.  It's human encroachment and hubris (for me, the hubris is humans encroaching into environments that aren't human friendly or are incredibly specialized human friendly, i.e. people that live w/in the environmental capacity, not mowing down environments to make them more human friendly, basically environmental colonialism).  So I feel like humans have a responsibility to try and save animals that are suffering through no environmental fault of their own.

    Zoos come in not just through the saving part, but through the education.  People just...don't think beyond their own needs, desires, and requirements unless they're educated into expanding into a big picture.  Even then, they'll still deny it.  I'm not super happy about them, but I'm not really sure of what another answer is to fix the problems.

    I think the entire education system in this country has formed into making workers and nothing else.  We're losing history, art, and culture b/c of cultivated obsession and self worth based in employment and it will kill us.


    This is my struggle too. People care more about things they can see or have experienced, and if seeing animals up close makes someone care more about environmental protection, then is it a bad thing? If the oceans seemed like this far away place, would people not on the coasts care about their straw or plastic bag usage? If someone hadn't seen a giraffe or tiger or rhino in the zoo, would they feel the same when they learn about game farms in Africa? It's so hard to say.

    That being said, zoos & aquariums and whatever have a responsibility to provide adequate living space to the animals, as close to their natural environment as possible. I saw a polar bear outside in a zoo in coastal NC, in June. Shit like that is just harmful and irresponsible, not to mention heartbreaking.
    I think there are "zoos" (animal parks) and zoological research centres (Like the London Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo or the Smithsonian Zoo). 

    The problem is painting them with the same brush. One is filled with veterinarians/botanists/conservationists etc conducting research and preservation about the species (most of which were born in captivity and cannot be set in the wild). The other is like sea world which are for-profit attractions.

    Crazy fact I learned the other day: there are more captive tigers in private ownership in Texas than all endangered wild tigers.  
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I have a friend who works in high end fashion in Paris. She always says "when you want to look ultimate chic, don't buy the hottest runway trend, wear all black and red lipstick. Every woman looks great in that."
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I have a friend who works in high end fashion in Paris. She always says "when you want to look ultimate chic, don't buy the hottest runway trend, wear all black and red lipstick. Every woman looks great in that."
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    I have a friend who works in high end fashion in Paris. She always says "when you want to look ultimate chic, don't buy the hottest runway trend, wear all black and red lipstick. Every woman looks great in that."
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