Oh girl, you need more than Prudie for this mess.

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

I recently discovered my husband of 20-plus years has been hiding a high level of drinking from me. I happened to notice a liquor store purchase while checking our online bank statement, something I rarely do. I usually only drink if we are out, and I had no memory of drinking anything at home or seeing him drink anything at home. According to the bank statement, he was drinking about four large bottles of vodka a month. When I confronted him, he immediately confessed. I asked him how long it had been going on, and he said he thinks it started “getting more frequent” after the kids were born. That was 15 years ago! He hid the bottles in his office and then just drank in secret. All those years while I was agonizing over the right ways to raise our kids and fretting over an increasingly long list of unfinished household projects, he was drinking.

I told him we are now a dry household and that he had to stop drinking immediately and completely if he wanted to continue to live with me and the kids. It appears that he has done so. (It’s been about two weeks.) I also required that he see a therapist. The appointment has been made. Problem solved, right? But I can’t get past the duplicity. I am shattered that he hid this from me. I find myself fantasizing about talking to a divorce lawyer. Plus, I don’t really know if you can just stop drinking one day because your wife told you to. What if he’s now drinking when he drives home from work? He was apparently a pretty high-functioning drinker; he never slurred words or acted drunk. He made a comment about it helping him sleep. But maybe a bottle a week isn’t that much? Maybe this is just something that people do? Prudie, I am floundering around without a compass here, and I need some perspective on this situation from you.

—Floundering and Flabbergasted

Ro041

How did she not smell it on him??  Vodka has a pretty specific scent.  

I think she has biiiiiig problems.  You can't "tell" an adult you have a dry household.  The person has to be on board.  Giving out directives to stop drinking and go to therapy doesn't mean your problem is solved.  Sheesh.

ShesSoCold

Yeah I find it hard to believe that this guy has been secretly drinking for 20 years and he just stops cold turkey because his wife told him to. 

If he'd been able to hide it so long, why wouldn't he be able to hide it now? 

I also think it's kind of crazy that she never knew or even had an idea. My mom was an alcoholic and I remember noticing that she was off when I was like 8. 

I think LW needs to give her H some time in therapy and go from there. Maybe he is serious and is quitting. Maybe not, but I think she needs to give her marriage a couple more months to see where he's at before she throws in the towel. 

Couple's counseling for the lying and deceit she feels is necessary as well, I think.

mrsconn23

I told him we are now a dry household and that he had to stop drinking immediately and completely if he wanted to continue to live with me and the kids. It appears that he has done so. (It’s been about two weeks.) I also required that he see a therapist. The appointment has been made. Problem solved, right?


This passage is so telling.  I have a feeling that the LW has been dictating to the H like this all along for all issues.  Maybe her H has been going along and 'yes, dearing' her all this time, so she thinks this how this problem can be solved. 

Yeah, no...that's not how alcoholism works.  If he really quit cold turkey, she could end up with a dead husband.  

Ro041

I worked a job in high school where the owner would go to the "bank" every day and would come back with watery eyes and smelling like vodka.  I knew at 16 what going to the "bank" meant.  He was a lovely man and his daily drink(s) never caused an issue at work, so it was never brought up, but come on.  How did she not know?

banana468

Oh FFS.

1) Prudie is not Dr. Drew.

2) What is a "large bottle of vodka"? 

3) Is that all he's drinking? 

LW needs to get into couple's counseling.  Some of this appears to be a bit projecting.   Why would she only drink if they're out?  How often is that?  Is the issue of any alcohol around kids?  That's striking me as a bit sanctimonious and I say this as someone who has a large alcohol stash and yet my coffee has only milk and sugar in it.   It sounds off to me if the purchase of alcohol in itself is a red flag.

BUT the H needs to lay it all out on the table.   How much was he drinking per day?  Did he ever do this and drive under the influence?  How often was he hiding this and doing this in the house without anyone knowing what was going on?  Is the LW's math correct?  And what's 4 large bottles?  1/5th?  A handle?  Was that in addition to any other alcohol? 

And if it helped him sleep, where was it in the house?  

There are a lot of holes in the story here and some point to the LW's observational skills, some to her beliefs on how to use alcohol and many point to her husband's hiding of his behavior.   Both of them need to use their words and her H needs to be completely honest and into AA. 

banana468

mrsconn23 said:

I told him we are now a dry household and that he had to stop drinking immediately and completely if he wanted to continue to live with me and the kids. It appears that he has done so. (It’s been about two weeks.) I also required that he see a therapist. The appointment has been made. Problem solved, right?


This passage is so telling.  I have a feeling that the LW has been dictating to the H like this all along for all issues.  Maybe her H has been going along and 'yes, dearing' her all this time, so she thinks this how this problem can be solved. 

Yeah, no...that's not how alcoholism works.  If he really quit cold turkey, she could end up with a dead husband.  

Exactly.   I feel like the LW just has a lack of understanding on how drinking and people work.

It in no way absolves her H of this pattern of behavior but it also tells me that maybe just maybe she is part of the problem. 

mrsconn23

banana468 said:

mrsconn23 said:

I told him we are now a dry household and that he had to stop drinking immediately and completely if he wanted to continue to live with me and the kids. It appears that he has done so. (It’s been about two weeks.) I also required that he see a therapist. The appointment has been made. Problem solved, right?


This passage is so telling.  I have a feeling that the LW has been dictating to the H like this all along for all issues.  Maybe her H has been going along and 'yes, dearing' her all this time, so she thinks this how this problem can be solved. 

Yeah, no...that's not how alcoholism works.  If he really quit cold turkey, she could end up with a dead husband.  

Exactly.   I feel like the LW just has a lack of understanding on how drinking and people work.

It in no way absolves her H of this pattern of behavior but it also tells me that maybe just maybe she is part of the problem. 

Yeah, not absolving him...but LW's tone in this letter is making it hard for me to be sympathetic or empathetic toward her.  I have many more questions about the entirety of their marriage that led to this point. 

banana468

mrsconn23 said:

banana468 said:

mrsconn23 said:

I told him we are now a dry household and that he had to stop drinking immediately and completely if he wanted to continue to live with me and the kids. It appears that he has done so. (It’s been about two weeks.) I also required that he see a therapist. The appointment has been made. Problem solved, right?


This passage is so telling.  I have a feeling that the LW has been dictating to the H like this all along for all issues.  Maybe her H has been going along and 'yes, dearing' her all this time, so she thinks this how this problem can be solved. 

Yeah, no...that's not how alcoholism works.  If he really quit cold turkey, she could end up with a dead husband.  

Exactly.   I feel like the LW just has a lack of understanding on how drinking and people work.

It in no way absolves her H of this pattern of behavior but it also tells me that maybe just maybe she is part of the problem. 

Yeah, not absolving him...but LW's tone in this letter is making it hard for me to be sympathetic or empathetic toward her.  I have many more questions about the entirety of their marriage that led to this point. 

Me too.  

I'm getting an impression of someone who is thinking that she runs a "tight ship" and that how she does things is the only way that they're done.   And a rigidity in life is maybe just maybe something that's pushing her H to have more alone time in the office with his buddy Tito. 

climbingsingle

So, my dad was a very high functioning alcoholic. He never hid his drinking - he drank beer in front of my mom. But, she had no idea he was drinking during the day, and then after work too. What she thought were just a few beers at home after work, was actually a lot more. He would drink until he passed out, and my mom just assumed he fell asleep when he was tired. He never seemed drunk, never slurred his words, never stumbled. I can, in a way, understand where this woman is coming from. 

A large bottle of vodka a week is not normal! 

short+sassy

Like you all, there is so much that is just weird and off in this letter.  Sounds like he was having a couple drinks a night in his home office.  But she didn't know that?  He was obviously being secretive about his drinking, from the get go, but why?  It seems like perhaps she has always had a highly disapproving attitude toward alcohol and always at least gave the impression she didn't want it in the house.  Because, otherwise, he might have hid how many bottles of alcohol he was going through a month.  But he wouldn't have made it such a secret that he had a bottle of vodka in his home office.  KIM, he would also had to have been sneaking the empty bottles into the outside trash.

And yeah, that LW is living in an alternate reality if she thinks dictating with the "royal we", ie "we are now a dry household," is actually going to work.  I was also rolling my eyes a bit that she is now blaming the long list of "unfinished household projects" to his drinking.  My H and I are usually sober.  We have a long list of unfinished household projects, lol.  I call that "life".

We had a set of tenants living on the other side of our duplex.  They both threw their lives away with alcohol, though the husband seemed to be the bigger culprit.  When they moved out...leaving most of their belongings behind for us to clean up, smh...we found DOZENS of pint bottles hidden on top of the inside moldings of the closets!  We assumed that was the H trying to hide from his wife that he was drinking even more than she knew he was.

banana468

climbingwife said:

So, my dad was a very high functioning alcoholic. He never hid his drinking - he drank beer in front of my mom. But, she had no idea he was drinking during the day, and then after work too. What she thought were just a few beers at home after work, was actually a lot more. He would drink until he passed out, and my mom just assumed he fell asleep when he was tired. He never seemed drunk, never slurred his words, never stumbled. I can, in a way, understand where this woman is coming from. 

A large bottle of vodka a week is not normal! 

But what's "large"?  Is she knowing what they cost and how much he's drinking or is she seeing a price tag of a certain amount? 

It does sound like the dude is over-doing it.   But is large a 1/5th?    A handle?And is he only drinking from this as the sole alcohol of the week and does he ever share? 

For the sake of math a 1/5 of Tito's is about $20.   And in 1/5th that is 750 oz which converts roughly to 17 shots.  That's still a lot per week if you're reporting that to your MD I agree.   But if this is what he's doing it's just over 2 shots a day.

All of these are warning signs but I see major concerns with the LW's approach. 

charlotte989875

I’ve got a lot of things here: 

1) Yes he’s daily & secret drinking, but is he an alcoholic? How much is a “big” bottle of vodka? Is it compulsive? Can he stop himself? Yes there are red flags here, but also many unanswered questions. 

2) How does one person dictate anything in a partnership? Maybe that’s part of why this has been done in secret. 

He’s been lying and that’s unacceptable and I get where she’s coming from. But I think the way she’s going about it is likely to lead to more problems. 

If you want out, LW get out. Because even if he isn’t an alcoholic, you shouldn’t stay in a marriage you don’t want to be in. 

Casadena

First of all, LW rarely checks the bank statements?  That is so weird to me.  I totally get one person managing the money of that's what you agree on, but to never even check the statements?  That's crazy. 

Also, if her H has been functioning "normally" and she has had no issues with him in general (which it kind of sounds like?) and then she finds out that he's purchased vodka and is considering divorce?  That sounds insane to me to uproot your life for. 

And I agree with Banana that the "large bottle" a week reeaaaly depends.  Because it if really is only 2-3 drinks a day, yeah that's a lot if it's EVERY DAY but most people I know could have 2-3 drinks and you'd never know it. 

Not saying hubby doesn't have a drinking problem (and it should definitely be addressed if he does), but I don't really think that's this couples biggest problem. 

VarunaTT

I think, the thing here for me, is that she finds out her husband is secretly drinking at work, and the pretty much laid out first thought seems to be anger over everything she was doing while he was drinking.  Like...she seems to be mad that he was, in her perception,  having fun?  She doesn't even seem to be angry over betrayal or expressing any concern over his wellbeing.  It's really all about how she...IDK, perceives it or is dealing with it?  It's not even compassionate.  I don't understand her letter/emotional state.

I think they both need counseling, for different reasons. And..not to make light of what is possibly an incredibly serious problem but...I'd drink if this person was my partner, b/c they sound cold AF.

banana468

VarunaTT said:

I think, the thing here for me, is that she finds out her husband is secretly drinking at work, and the pretty much laid out first thought seems to be anger over everything she was doing while he was drinking.  Like...she seems to be mad that he was, in her perception,  having fun?  She doesn't even seem to be angry over betrayal or expressing any concern over his wellbeing.  It's really all about how she...IDK, perceives it or is dealing with it?  It's not even compassionate.  I don't understand her letter/emotional state.

I think they both need counseling, for different reasons. And..not to make light of what is possibly an incredibly serious problem but...I'd drink if this person was my partner, b/c they sound cold AF.

Yup. 

short+sassy

Casadena said:

First of all, LW rarely checks the bank statements?  That is so weird to me.  I totally get one person managing the money of that's what you agree on, but to never even check the statements?  That's crazy. 

Also, if her H has been functioning "normally" and she has had no issues with him in general (which it kind of sounds like?) and then she finds out that he's purchased vodka and is considering divorce?  That sounds insane to me to uproot your life for. 

And I agree with Banana that the "large bottle" a week reeaaaly depends.  Because it if really is only 2-3 drinks a day, yeah that's a lot if it's EVERY DAY but most people I know could have 2-3 drinks and you'd never know it. 

Not saying hubby doesn't have a drinking problem (and it should definitely be addressed if he does), but I don't really think that's this couples biggest problem. 

Actually, my H doesn't, lol.  I manage all our household finances.  I'm old fashioned and still have a lot of paper statements, for bank stuff and 'ccs, that get mailed to the house.  Nothing is secret.  He could look at whatever he wanted to.  He just doesn't.  Doesn't want to.  I'm much better at it anyway.  And online access?  Fuhgeddaboudit, lol.  He doesn't even know the usernames, much less the passwords.  Though he could have them if he asked me.

In fact, it's actually just a little concerning.  If something were to happen to me, he'd be completely lost.  I keep meaning to create a "cheat sheet" and put it in our safe.  We also keep some spare cash in the safe, so he doesn't need an ATM card.  I could see THAT being confusing, if he made withdrawals and forgot to tell me.

I realize we're in the minority with how we handle our finances.  So that part of the letter was a little unusual to me.  But exactly like my H is with money, so not completely surprising either.

cupcait927

H was a secret drinker for over 2 years and it devastated me. I had the same reaction LW did - I spent all that time making sure we were staying on budget, and taking care of a house and busting my ass at my job and he was drinking before, during and after work, coming home drunk? I was angry about it. I had been lied to and my knee jerk reaction was to say "no more drinking" because I didn't know how else to handle it. I had grown up with an alcoholic father and all I could see at that time was my adult life being no different than my childhood. 

H ended up in the hospital because of his drinking and was diagnosed with bipolar depression and OCD. Once he got into counseling and on medication, and I went into counseling for myself, I could see that being angry at him at the time was not the appropriate reaction and we've worked to get to a better place. I don't read this letter the same way that the rest of you are reading it - I see her as me this time a year ago, wondering why this was happening and why hadn't I found out sooner? I'm probably a little more sensitive to this issue because I literally was this LW a year ago and I'm more compassionate to her feelings. 

kvruns

Ditto and hugs cupcait!

short+sassy

cupcait927 said:

H was a secret drinker for over 2 years and it devastated me. I had the same reaction LW did - I spent all that time making sure we were staying on budget, and taking care of a house and busting my ass at my job and he was drinking before, during and after work, coming home drunk? I was angry about it. I had been lied to and my knee jerk reaction was to say "no more drinking" because I didn't know how else to handle it. I had grown up with an alcoholic father and all I could see at that time was my adult life being no different than my childhood. 

H ended up in the hospital because of his drinking and was diagnosed with bipolar depression and OCD. Once he got into counseling and on medication, and I went into counseling for myself, I could see that being angry at him at the time was not the appropriate reaction and we've worked to get to a better place. I don't read this letter the same way that the rest of you are reading it - I see her as me this time a year ago, wondering why this was happening and why hadn't I found out sooner? I'm probably a little more sensitive to this issue because I literally was this LW a year ago and I'm more compassionate to her feelings. 

Thanks for sharing your story.  It's a great post to see the letter from another perspective.

I'm sorry you went through that.  It does sound devastating.  I'm glad your H has gotten some help and that you all are in a better place.

kerbohl

LW does seem quite cold. 

Her husband seems to agree with her that he has a problem ... but does he or is he just saying that because she thinks he has a problem?  My H doesn't drink at all, and he might think if I had a drink a day that I was drinking too much because he legit has no clue what is too much.  LW's husband might just be agreeing with her to placate her and doesn't actually think it's an issue, but who knows!  

climbingsingle

I really don't see the LW as being cold. If her H was hiding the bottles and drinking in secret, that means he knew he was doing something wrong. If your H had been keeping a secret for 15 years from you, you'd probably be pretty pissed off too. And you'd probably think back to those 15 years, and rehash things that had happened. Honestly, I think her reaction is pretty normal? 

She also has a very legitimate concern about him drinking and driving. What if your partner was doing this - drinking at work and then driving home every day?! 

banana468

climbingwife said:

I really don't see the LW as being cold. If her H was hiding the bottles and drinking in secret, that means he knew he was doing something wrong. If your H had been keeping a secret for 15 years from you, you'd probably be pretty pissed off too. And you'd probably think back to those 15 years, and rehash things that had happened. Honestly, I think her reaction is pretty normal? 

She also has a very legitimate concern about him drinking and driving. What if your partner was doing this - drinking at work and then driving home every day?! 

I agree that it's wrong.   But the fact that she mentions she never has it in the house and now the house is dry and seems to be issuing ultimatums makes me want the facts before I jump in here.

At minimum - he's hiding something big and drinking in secret is nearly always a sign of a problem.   She has a right to be upset.   But why share the backstory? 

VarunaTT

It's not her anger that's surprising.  It's her complete lack of introspection and/or questions about why.  It seems very surface level of angry to me.  And then, BAM, here are the rules and everything should be fine.  And then she comes across as what...surprised, I guess, that it's not, that she has questions.  But never once is the question how, why, what happened, etc. and I find that odd.

Granted, it's a Prudie letter, so we don't get everything.  

short+sassy

climbingwife said:

I really don't see the LW as being cold. If her H was hiding the bottles and drinking in secret, that means he knew he was doing something wrong. If your H had been keeping a secret for 15 years from you, you'd probably be pretty pissed off too. And you'd probably think back to those 15 years, and rehash things that had happened. Honestly, I think her reaction is pretty normal? 

She also has a very legitimate concern about him drinking and driving. What if your partner was doing this - drinking at work and then driving home every day?! 

A few of you have interpreted him having "bottles in his office", as him drinking at his workplace.  I interpreted it as him having bottles in his home office.

It's a Prudie letter so no way to know for sure, lol.  But that was my impression because NOW she is worried that he is stopping for drinks on his way home from work.  Whereas, she doesn't mention any concern that he was drinking and driving previously.  Or a concern of "what if he had lost/loses his job", if the drinking was happening at his workplace. 

mrsconn23

VarunaTT said:

It's not her anger that's surprising.  It's her complete lack of introspection and/or questions about why.  It seems very surface level of angry to me.  And then, BAM, here are the rules and everything should be fine.  And then she comes across as what...surprised, I guess, that it's not, that she has questions.  But never once is the question how, why, what happened, etc. and I find that odd.

Granted, it's a Prudie letter, so we don't get everything.  

THIS. 

But yes, it is a Prudie letter so we can't get the whole picture.  

levioosa

Hugs @cupcait927. 

And as far as the “large bottle” goes, I’m assuming LW means a handle. 

LW needs to get themselves to Al-anon. 

banana468

It depends on the office.   I think in some that's not so farfetched.  In the manufacturing industry?  Oh hells no.  

charlotte989875

banana468 said:

It depends on the office.   I think in some that's not so farfetched.  In the manufacturing industry?  Oh hells no.  

When I worked in academia people had scotch tastings in their offices. 

STARMOON44

charlotte989875 said:

banana468 said:

It depends on the office.   I think in some that's not so farfetched.  In the manufacturing industry?  Oh hells no.  

When I worked in academia people had scotch tastings in their offices. 

On Fridays we drink scotch in my boss’s office. 

OurWildKingdom

STARMOON44 said:

charlotte989875 said:

banana468 said:

It depends on the office.   I think in some that's not so farfetched.  In the manufacturing industry?  Oh hells no.  

When I worked in academia people had scotch tastings in their offices. 

On Fridays we drink scotch in my boss’s office. 

That has potential to be really hilarious or really awkward. It would probably be hilarious in my office.