Wedding Woes
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Tell her. Tell her now. She needs to know ASAP.

mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
edited October 2020 in Wedding Woes

Dear Prudence,

My father-in-law died last year, and my mother-in-law, “Bev,” was struggling on her own before the pandemic hit, so things have only gotten worse in the past seven months. Her children have been helping out where they can but are planning a virtual meeting to talk about longer-term strategies to care for her (she’s in her mid-60s). I know one possible option they’ve discussed is her coming to live with my wife and me. It makes sense, since we have a large house, no kids, and enough disposable income to afford it. The only problem is that I will never live with, or spend more than an afternoon with, my mother-in-law. It is a marriage-ending situation for me. She is a good person, and she raised people that I either love or like, but she’s so aggressively negative and nerve-wracking. If you say you like her hat, she’ll make snide comments for days about how you must not have liked her coat (“I guess if I made as much money as you, I’d buy new coats all the time” or “I’d love to go, but I have to wear my red coat, and I’d hate to embarrass you”). Everyone is out to get her. If a cashier wishes her a nice day, they must have meant it sarcastically. It must be exhausting to be her, and I’m sympathetic, but I can’t live with her. I feel so on edge around her that I get panic attacks. I grew up in a violent home, and the tension I feel around her reminds me of what it felt like there.

I know ultimatums are bad, but I don’t want my wife to go through this whole conversation with her siblings and then surprise her. My wife is a wonderful woman, but she loves her mother and thinks me comparing her to my abusive dad is cruel. I understand that, but even though I don’t fear Bev’s violence, the need to watch every word just puts me back in that fight-or-flight state. What do I do?

—Ultimatum Uncertainty

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Re: Tell her. Tell her now. She needs to know ASAP.

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    Yeah, she needs to know how you feel about this. ASAP.
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    I dont' think you're wrong to feel that way about your MIL - but your wife needs to know your feelings ASAP.  
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    I feel for this LW.  I have an extremely difficult FIL.  He's also a hot mess, and it feels like he's getting worse.  DH has mused if FIL has the onset of dementia, but it's hard to tell because FIL has always lacked focus.  My MIL was the one who was organized and thought of all.the.things, so for almost 40 years he didn't have to be involved in the minutia of small details.  She's been gone 5 years and FIL can pay bills and take care of himself.  But he fails on every level of the small shit (like, we'd ask him to get beer for boating and 99.9% of the time he'd utterly fail to the point we stopped asking). 

    So I say all that to say that DH and I have been having conversations about future care for his dad and how far we're willing to extend ourselves.  Living with FIL would be marriage ending for me.  My mental health would not be able to handle it. I'd also be worried about DefConn and he doesn't need to be in that situation.  Thankfully, DH is on the same page as me.  IDK where his siblings would fall, but they have no leg to stand on since they don't live here and probably wouldn't transplant FIL to their home. 

    I think it's terrible of LW's wife to be discussing/offering their home as a haven for MIL if she needs to move in with someone with her siblings without first having a conversation with LW.  I also think it's awfully dismissive of her to not take LW's feelings/concerns about how her mother's behavior affects LW.  
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    The more I think about this the more I'm struck by the idea that this is going to be brought up at sibling discussion and yet wife has no idea how her H even feels about it.

    How does he know? Why didn't he interject and say, "That's not an option for me" when she said they'd be talking about it? Why didn't she ask how he felt?
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    Y'all, one of my BFFs and I last night where talking about how we just assume everyone is gay until proven straight.  And I'm cackling b/c I totally thought this was a wife/wife couple and y'all are assuming wife/husband couple.
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    VarunaTT said:
    Y'all, one of my BFFs and I last night where talking about how we just assume everyone is gay until proven straight.  And I'm cackling b/c I totally thought this was a wife/wife couple and y'all are assuming wife/husband couple.
    I've actually made a conscious effort in the last year or so to start reading Prudies LW's as gender neutral unless gender identity is stated in the letter. 
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    Yeah - there are no give aways here regarding the gender of the LW. 

    LW absolutely NOW needs to talk to the wife.  They need to be clear NOW that this is a non starter.  

    DH and I have had this discussion briefly but haven't had it large scale yet.   Either way it's something we'd have to align on and my marriage needs to come first.  If something is a deal breaker for DH then we need to come up with an ideal alternative.   Walking on eggshells is not something that works. 
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    When gender isn't noted, I've been trying to also think as gender neutral

    Regardless I've had ex-bf's family not like me much {or basically just tolerate me} and it's not fun.
    LW needs to tell their wife. If you can't live with someone, you can't live with someone.
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    VarunaTT said:
    Y'all, one of my BFFs and I last night where talking about how we just assume everyone is gay until proven straight.  And I'm cackling b/c I totally thought this was a wife/wife couple and y'all are assuming wife/husband couple.
    I actually thought this was a woman writing, but probably because of sexism I assume a man would just be direct and say it wasn’t an option. 
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    I think it's awesome that we all try to be gender neutral.  It's probably one of the hardest things to stop assuming, for me.  It's so built into society. 

    K and I make the attempt to always say, "That's a very attractive human" when we notice someone and not assume gender based on physical appearance for anyone we don't know.

    Once you really work on it, it becomes a lot easier to separate gender and genitalia and to be a trans ally, I think.
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    VarunaTT said:
    I think it's awesome that we all try to be gender neutral.  It's probably one of the hardest things to stop assuming, for me.  It's so built into society. 

    K and I make the attempt to always say, "That's a very attractive human" when we notice someone and not assume gender based on physical appearance for anyone we don't know.

    Once you really work on it, it becomes a lot easier to separate gender and genitalia and to be a trans ally, I think.
    Bolded. Same. I do have to make a conscious effort to not think everyone is female or male, regardless of looks.
    And that being said, I actually know someone who is gay and looks more feminine than masculine and just always thought of them as "him" {at the time they identified as male, and could be different now}
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    Oh boy, I feel for the LW.  I'm terrified that someday I might have to take my mom in.  The very delicate relationship we have formed after years and years of me enforcing boundaries relies on many things, the most important one being we never spend more than a few hours together, and never sleep under the same roof again.  I wish I had answer. 

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    I personally wouldn't want to live with DD (the most likely candidate) because I can only take SIL for so long. I'm sure I must drive him crazy too. Yes LW and wife should have a serious conversation about this. It isn't a trivial thing for either party.
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    You need to speak up, LW, and make clear to your wife why having your mother-in-law live with you is not and cannot be a go. Then you can propose alternatives. But if you stay silent and resentful, that will destroy your marriage as much as having your mother-in-law in your home will.
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    I am in complete and utter shock that it has gotten to this point and apparently the LW STILL hasn't said anything?!?!  I'm also curious if the wife asked her partner.  It's crappy if she didn't.  That's the impression I'm getting.

    Having someone, even family, move into one's home is a major discussion.  A potentially dealbreaking, huge major discussion.  So I just don't get how people find themselves in this situation.

    At any rate, the LW need to let their wife know their feelings and most certainly before this sibling/MIL Zoom meeting.  There's nothing to feel bad about or apologize for.  The LW is not being unreasonable and they need to put their foot down that this cannot be an option.

    I think the best way to handle the discussion is to avoid as much as possible talking about the things they don't like about their MIL.  It should be enough to just say their privacy is important to them and they don't want another adult living with them.

    Since the LW talks about disposable income, that's something else they should talk about with their wife if they haven't already.  It might soften the blow if they show they are amenable to financially helping with mom's future care.  
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
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    mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited October 2020
    While we had fun in SoCal, a week was really long to stay in someone else's home.  The *only* people I could tolerate staying in my home for more than week is SIL/BIL/nieces.  SIL and I joke we compliment each other's strengths/weaknesses so well that we'd make great sister-wives, LOL. 

    So yeah, how TF you go from married with no kids to your difficult MIL moving in with you permanently without intense discussion, negotiation, and boundary-setting is mind-bottling.  And even then, you still may end up choosing your marriage over your parent. Or if you don't do that, your spouse may choose themselves over a shitty living situation. 
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    My parents and MIL are no where near needing to find someone to live with, but I've already had this discussion.  We discussed this years ago.  I can't imagine having it be something that will probably happen in the near future and not having an in depth conversation.

    Truth be told, we'll probably have to have the discussion again.  If it's my mom that has to live with someone, hubby is fine.  If it's my dad ... my dad can be really negative.

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    kerbohl said:
    My parents and MIL are no where near needing to find someone to live with, but I've already had this discussion.  We discussed this years ago.  I can't imagine having it be something that will probably happen in the near future and not having an in depth conversation.

    Truth be told, we'll probably have to have the discussion again.  If it's my mom that has to live with someone, hubby is fine.  If it's my dad ... my dad can be really negative.
    I expect we'll need to do it too.   

    If there's anything I'm seeing it's that 2020 tells me that nothing can be planned.
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    FI and I have briefly touched on this topic a few times. I could not live with either of our parents. His mom is crazy and my parents are a lot to handle sometimes too. We probably should have a more comprehensive conversation even though I think we’re on the same page. You never know what will happen. Today MIL fell and she’s having surgery on her ankle this afternoon. 


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    levioosa said:
    FI and I have briefly touched on this topic a few times. I could not live with either of our parents. His mom is crazy and my parents are a lot to handle sometimes too. We probably should have a more comprehensive conversation even though I think we’re on the same page. You never know what will happen. Today MIL fell and she’s having surgery on her ankle this afternoon. 
    Oh no!  I'm sorry to hear that.  It's scary to hear stories like that.  We all have a bad fall once in awhile.  I just did last week.  But to catch it wrong and need surgery sounds awful.

    On other weird accidents.  I had a friend of a friend who got in a small fender bender.  But it set her airbags off.  One of her thumbs got caught by the airbag and she needed surgery to fix it.  She was so pissed.  While she understands how crucial air bags can be, this particular accident was almost nothing and the only thing that caused her a lot of pain and hassle was the injury from the air bag.  
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    M & I have also had loose convos about this. I'm an only child so if my mum were to need it, moving it would have to be figured out. We've already discussed she would need her own space, etc.

    Actually the convo came up assuming we won the Cheo Dream of a Lifetime Lottery house lmao! My mum would move in and take care of BK during the day. She would be able to retire {she's going part time next spring} and not have to worry about bills at least.

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    You need to talk to your wife, and you need to do it now. Do not let her go into that conversation with her siblings thinking that you're fine with this plan when you are not. 
    Parent or no parent, you shouldn't be forced to live with someone who you find it that hard to be around (has your wife noticed how agitated you get around her?). It's your home too and you have a right to be comfortable in it.

    It doesn't sound from your letter like Bev is physically unable to live alone or care for herself. If it's just a matter of having trouble taking care of a house on her own or an emotional/loneliness issue, what if you chipped in for an apartment or smaller house nearby where your wife could check in and help her with stuff regularly, and you didn't have to be any more involved than you wanted to be? 
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    kerbohl said:
    My parents and MIL are no where near needing to find someone to live with, but I've already had this discussion.  We discussed this years ago.  I can't imagine having it be something that will probably happen in the near future and not having an in depth conversation.

    Truth be told, we'll probably have to have the discussion again.  If it's my mom that has to live with someone, hubby is fine.  If it's my dad ... my dad can be really negative.
    Same. We've had the general conversations, but it can't end there. We have no idea what kind of care our parents will be or what our living/financial situation will be when the time comes. We think we'd be fine with our moms, but my dad would drive me crazy and FIL is a non starter. 

    I'm thinking about this from a culture perspective. H's family comes from generational living - his grandmother's house currently houses 4 generations, while his grandfather lives with his mom. Right or wrong, there's an assumption that aging parents end up living with the kids. I wonder if there's some assumption like that fueling why the wife isn't talking to LW. Either way, this seems to be the week for married people who don't talk to each other. 
    That may well be.

    We witnessed this with SIL and BIL.  On SIL's side the aging family lives with the children.   It's clear that was the thought process that they had when they purchased their home in the last couple years because there is a bedroom with a bathroom in their basement.   According to MIL (and I do take some of her stories with a grain of salt) SIL's dad said, "Well in OUR family we take in the aging family."  And MIL's response was, "I'll go where you tell me."  She dealt with that with her mom and they were VERY clear that moving her mom to live with MIL and FIL was a non starter. 

    Side note: I giggle at the above situation because when MIL and FIL were considering moving to live close to BIL his answer was, "Well, sure but maybe no closer than 45 minutes away."  


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    short+sassyshort+sassy member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited October 2020
    banana468 said:
    kerbohl said:
    My parents and MIL are no where near needing to find someone to live with, but I've already had this discussion.  We discussed this years ago.  I can't imagine having it be something that will probably happen in the near future and not having an in depth conversation.

    Truth be told, we'll probably have to have the discussion again.  If it's my mom that has to live with someone, hubby is fine.  If it's my dad ... my dad can be really negative.
    Same. We've had the general conversations, but it can't end there. We have no idea what kind of care our parents will be or what our living/financial situation will be when the time comes. We think we'd be fine with our moms, but my dad would drive me crazy and FIL is a non starter. 

    I'm thinking about this from a culture perspective. H's family comes from generational living - his grandmother's house currently houses 4 generations, while his grandfather lives with his mom. Right or wrong, there's an assumption that aging parents end up living with the kids. I wonder if there's some assumption like that fueling why the wife isn't talking to LW. Either way, this seems to be the week for married people who don't talk to each other. 
    That may well be.

    We witnessed this with SIL and BIL.  On SIL's side the aging family lives with the children.   It's clear that was the thought process that they had when they purchased their home in the last couple years because there is a bedroom with a bathroom in their basement.   According to MIL (and I do take some of her stories with a grain of salt) SIL's dad said, "Well in OUR family we take in the aging family."  And MIL's response was, "I'll go where you tell me."  She dealt with that with her mom and they were VERY clear that moving her mom to live with MIL and FIL was a non starter. 

    Side note: I giggle at the above situation because when MIL and FIL were considering moving to live close to BIL his answer was, "Well, sure but maybe no closer than 45 minutes away."  
    That is hilarious!

    At first I was thinking one option could be if the LW and wife got help from the other siblings to build an ADU (Accessory Dwelling Unit) on their property, aka small second unit that shares walls, but not entrances with the main house.  However, the MIL sounds meddling, so I could see this being almost as bad.

    Oh my goodness, I have a tenant who reminds me of the Bev description!  She is a lot younger than Bev, but I can see her growing into the more advanced negativity and paranoia as she gets older, lol.  I like her and the negativity isn't usually directed at me.  But she is a talker and I've often heard stories of this person or that person staring at her.  Looking at her weird.  Including cashier stories like what the LW described!  And, while I'm sure a story here or there is true, she's really sensitive and seems to LOOK for the smallest reason to be offended and also assumes the worst in people.  I'm sometimes amazed that she seems to like me!  Not that I'm unlikeable, lol.  But I would be a natural target for her vitriol, so I'm surprised I'm not.

    Edited because one of my sentences was missing.  
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    banana468 said:
    kerbohl said:
    My parents and MIL are no where near needing to find someone to live with, but I've already had this discussion.  We discussed this years ago.  I can't imagine having it be something that will probably happen in the near future and not having an in depth conversation.

    Truth be told, we'll probably have to have the discussion again.  If it's my mom that has to live with someone, hubby is fine.  If it's my dad ... my dad can be really negative.
    Same. We've had the general conversations, but it can't end there. We have no idea what kind of care our parents will be or what our living/financial situation will be when the time comes. We think we'd be fine with our moms, but my dad would drive me crazy and FIL is a non starter. 

    I'm thinking about this from a culture perspective. H's family comes from generational living - his grandmother's house currently houses 4 generations, while his grandfather lives with his mom. Right or wrong, there's an assumption that aging parents end up living with the kids. I wonder if there's some assumption like that fueling why the wife isn't talking to LW. Either way, this seems to be the week for married people who don't talk to each other. 
    That may well be.

    We witnessed this with SIL and BIL.  On SIL's side the aging family lives with the children.   It's clear that was the thought process that they had when they purchased their home in the last couple years because there is a bedroom with a bathroom in their basement.   According to MIL (and I do take some of her stories with a grain of salt) SIL's dad said, "Well in OUR family we take in the aging family."  And MIL's response was, "I'll go where you tell me."  She dealt with that with her mom and they were VERY clear that moving her mom to live with MIL and FIL was a non starter. 

    Side note: I giggle at the above situation because when MIL and FIL were considering moving to live close to BIL his answer was, "Well, sure but maybe no closer than 45 minutes away."  


    In the last year my IL's were talking about moving closer to one of their jobs (closer to the city, they're waaaay out in IL that's not even really suburbia).  The few houses they actually looked at ended up being about 10 minutes away from SIL/BIL, 15 minutes from us, and no closer to either of their jobs *eye-roll*.  SIL had similar talk with them as the bolded and it did NOT go well.  Pretty sure MIL's response was something along the lines of "F you, maybe we'll just move across the country and not tell you."  

    I think if you're looking to move that close to one of your kids/grandkids it would be nice to at least have a conversation about it.  Not that we can tell anyone where to move, but you'd think they would at least want to know how we all thought about it.  
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    Casadena said:
    banana468 said:
    kerbohl said:
    My parents and MIL are no where near needing to find someone to live with, but I've already had this discussion.  We discussed this years ago.  I can't imagine having it be something that will probably happen in the near future and not having an in depth conversation.

    Truth be told, we'll probably have to have the discussion again.  If it's my mom that has to live with someone, hubby is fine.  If it's my dad ... my dad can be really negative.
    Same. We've had the general conversations, but it can't end there. We have no idea what kind of care our parents will be or what our living/financial situation will be when the time comes. We think we'd be fine with our moms, but my dad would drive me crazy and FIL is a non starter. 

    I'm thinking about this from a culture perspective. H's family comes from generational living - his grandmother's house currently houses 4 generations, while his grandfather lives with his mom. Right or wrong, there's an assumption that aging parents end up living with the kids. I wonder if there's some assumption like that fueling why the wife isn't talking to LW. Either way, this seems to be the week for married people who don't talk to each other. 
    That may well be.

    We witnessed this with SIL and BIL.  On SIL's side the aging family lives with the children.   It's clear that was the thought process that they had when they purchased their home in the last couple years because there is a bedroom with a bathroom in their basement.   According to MIL (and I do take some of her stories with a grain of salt) SIL's dad said, "Well in OUR family we take in the aging family."  And MIL's response was, "I'll go where you tell me."  She dealt with that with her mom and they were VERY clear that moving her mom to live with MIL and FIL was a non starter. 

    Side note: I giggle at the above situation because when MIL and FIL were considering moving to live close to BIL his answer was, "Well, sure but maybe no closer than 45 minutes away."  


    In the last year my IL's were talking about moving closer to one of their jobs (closer to the city, they're waaaay out in IL that's not even really suburbia).  The few houses they actually looked at ended up being about 10 minutes away from SIL/BIL, 15 minutes from us, and no closer to either of their jobs *eye-roll*.  SIL had similar talk with them as the bolded and it did NOT go well.  Pretty sure MIL's response was something along the lines of "F you, maybe we'll just move across the country and not tell you."  

    I think if you're looking to move that close to one of your kids/grandkids it would be nice to at least have a conversation about it.  Not that we can tell anyone where to move, but you'd think they would at least want to know how we all thought about it.  
    Well, what was amusing was that if MIL and FIL moved to be closer to BIL and SIL that would have been the POINT.  They would be packing up from their home state and moving to a new one more than hundreds of miles away.  When BIL basically said, "I love you but don't want to see you that often," it was a clear push to MIL and FIL to tell them to go pound sand.

    FIL also said, "Dude I'll buy a house where I want to."  It was also a point to BIL to say that he can't tell his parents what to do. That said, BIL/SIL clearly are incongruous in that approach and it's left a salty taste in the mouths of MIL and FIL.   MIL is definitely negative and high maintenance and manipulative but she's loving, means well and is their mom.   It's just clear that when BIL and SIL say, "This is our approach to parents they didn't insert the (SIL's name) between to and parents."  It's something that hasn't been lost on MIL and FIL.   

    MIL and FIL did ask what we thought about them moving close to us and we were for it.   They now live in town and they're part of our "bubble" but not part of our dwelling.
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