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Wedding Woes
mrsconn23
member
Culture clash impasse
in Wedding Woes
Dear Prudence,
I was raised Mormon, my husband was raised Jewish. Neither of us are practicing or believing in the faiths we were raised with; in fact, I’m agnostic and he’s atheist. We have a baby on the way, and we’ve already decided to not raise her with religion; however, I enjoy celebrating Christmas. I’ve explained to my husband that Christmas really can be as secular as one wants, but he just doesn’t seem moved. If we celebrate, I’m forcing him to do something he’s uncomfortable about. If we don’t celebrate, he’s forcing me to give up a major holiday that I’ve always loved. It seems like a lose-lose situation.
— Bah Humbug
Re: Culture clash impasse
Why can't LW talk to the H and see what it is that he's against?
This isn't passing my smell test though. If it's a holiday that LW has always loved then what were they doing while they were dating and newly married? Did they sit in silence and do nothing and get resentful? If it's coming up just now I'm not buying that LW truly loved it.
I wonder how he feels about non-religious things. If this is centered around any kind of whisper of celebrating something that could appear to be 'religious', then he needs to get some help for his seeming aversion (which may be rooted in trauma).
DH and I lean pretty agnostic bordering on atheist (DH has some deeply rooted religious trauma from childhood) and we're raising DefConn w/o religion, but I cannot imagine giving up Christmas and our holiday traditions. We just don't base it on Christ's birth and it has more to do with being with family, showing them love, and eating all the food.
This is about compromise. Does he go hard on all things he doesn't want or is the perception of religion and faith the hill he dies on? If he cannot even bring himself to agree to a damn tree and snowman because or baking a batch of holiday cookies because it's tied to 'Christmas' even if his wife's cherished memories growing up have to do with doing those things, then I think he's being overbearing. If he cannot even with any religion and/or has a negative, unreasonable reaction, it's worth exploring IMO.
This is also something that LW and H should have discussed when they decided to be atheist/agnostic and/or decided to have kids. I also want to know what they've done around the holiday season to this point. If their families still celebrate Hanukkah and/or Christmas, do they attend anything? Do they sit out? Do they go to have dinner, but don't participate in gifts or any blessings?
The true meaning of Christmas...celebrating Jesus's birth...is most definitely not secular. But most of the Christmas traditions have nothing to do with religion and aren't Christian-specific at all. This is where the LW is coming from and I definitely see her point.
I see the H's point also, though. The most important thing is for the couple to decide on what they are both comfortable with and what they are not. But I'd hope the husband can have some flexibility and compromise with this.
I'm also curious as to what has been going on in their house/relationship, before a baby arrives on the scene. That's what would seem like is the most important question. Though has probably been something of a controversy already.
If the LW has always had Christmas decorations and done XYZ, than it does seem like an about-face of her H to suddenly shut it all down.
But on the other side of that coin, if there has always been zero Christmas in their relationship and the LW only has Christmas-like traditions outside of the relationship/home. Wwellll, then I can more clearly understand why the H is saying, "WTF? Nothing Christmas. Why would that change just because we will have a baby by Christmas 2022?"
She doesn't say how involved he was in his faith before leaving, but being Mormon is an all-consuming thing. It's your entire life and most people who leave Mormonism talk about it like it's a death and mourn it as such. It costs many people a lot to leave. I can see how pregnancy is bringing up feelings of wanting to find traditions to share with their child that she may not have thought about before now.
A relationship should be an ongoing conversation of evolving ideas and attitudes. When one person holds too tightly to one idea and won't hear out their partner and see how they can come to a place of understanding and/or compromise, it's an issue that needs to be worked out in a way that honors both partners.
Let's take religion out of it. Make it a birthday. Some people don't care, some people do. When you are in a partnership, it's about a compromise.
There are some things that would make me change my mind, but LW doesn't mention religious trauma, and that's about the only thing that I would tell them get some therapy first, then work out a compromise.
ETA: So I think hubby needs to find a comfort level for him and then let her do what she wants free of judgment.
2nd ETA: Which is why I'm completely comfortable saying Christmas is a very secular holiday at this point that lots of people celebrate, with no religion at all. With less than 50% of the US population now reporting any religious affiliation, that will become more and more true. As a society, Western civ probably won't lose Christmas, but the churches will.
The client site I do my job for is in a Muslim-based country (Indonesia). When I first started, our servers were based in Jakarta, so the "ads" targeted to me were for that area. During Ramadan, there were SO MANY restaurant ads talking about Ramadan feasts and all-you-can eat buffets starting after dark. For fun, I clicked on some of them and ran across occasional reviews complaining about the commercialization of Ramadan. I Googled that subject a little more and went down a rabbit hole. It was just like the remarks I'm familiar with about the commercialization of Christmas.
Even though the subject matter was holiday complaining, it made me smile to see how very similar the people of this world are.
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@levioosa, though not nearly as extreme as your example, I can relate a little bit to feeling like a "fish out of water" during the Lenten season. Pun intended.
NOLA is a super-super Catholic place. Over 36% of the population identifies itself as Catholic. But I was raised and still am Lutheran. So, while Lent is still an important religious time for us, we don't do the "meatless" Fridays or "give anything up".
Lent is EVERYWHERE. Every restaurant is advertising it's Lenten specials, many of them ramping up the advertising more than they do the rest of the year. By the time it's getting close to Easter, I'm screaming in my head, "Shut up about fish already!!!!" Lol.
In the beginning of the Lenten season, "what I'm giving up for Lent" is a common topic of conversation. Every once in awhile, someone will ask me what I'm giving up for Lent. I'm not offended by the question. But I'll laugh and say, "I'm Lutheran, so nothing."
But one part of Lent I do enjoy is the classic, local question that is debated every year, "Is it okay to eat alligator and turtle on Fridays?" There are strong camps on both sides, lol.
But, yeah, if you are talking about something more like a church fundraiser, it's almost guaranteed to be a fried catfish platter.
It's tough, though, when popular local cuisine is not your fave. My H grew up in Oregon and hates salmon. In my single days, I dated a guy who grew up in NOLA. He hated shrimp and crawfish, which is like a sacrilege here, lol.
I get that making other food is requiring a bigger kitchen and is more time consuming but I loved that a parish near BIL and SIL out in OH had options for macaroni and cheese and pasta with marinara sauce in addition to the fish fry.
It definitely wasn't a German-centered Lutheran church. Relatively speaking, So CA wasn't a hot-spot for German immigrants. There might have occasionally been someone mentioning giving something up for Lent but, overall, it wasn't something we did or talked about much.
But now you have me curious, if I went to a Lutheran church in NOLA around Lent, would I hear a lot of talking about giving something up for Lent. Just because it's so prevalent in this city anyway.
To be fair, I know it's always a person's choice and not some hard and fast rule. Non-Catholics can give something up for Lent if they want to and Catholics don't have to give anything up for Lent, if they don't want to.
This guy and Disney guy from last week need to form an asshole support group.